When we see things BEGIN to happen -Rapture

[Oseas]

And JESUS took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to the disciples, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the New Testament, which is shed FOR MANY (not for ALL) for the remission of sins. But I say unto you, I WILL NOT DRINK HENCEFORTH OF THIS FRUIT OF THE VINE, until that Day (His Day, the LORD's DAY, the seventh and LAST DAY or seventh and last millennium; this DAY/
millennium arrived) when I DRINK IT NEW WITH YOU in MY FATHER's KINGDOM.

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD (kingdoms of this world of Devil, and one of the 7 heads of the Gentile Beast of sea will be wounded mortally) ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF THE LORD, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, AND ART TO COME (2ND COMING OF JESUS); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. (NOTE: GOD calls those things which be not as though they were).
And the nations were angry (Yeah, the nations will be angry), but GOD's wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that He should give reward unto His servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear His name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth. - (the destruction is a process, not a magic; GOD does not do magic, GOD works, and will destroy them which destroy the earth- The Word is GOD, is is written? Then will fulfill LITERALLY).

Then THE END cometh, when He shall have delivered up the KINGDOM to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (I WILL NOT DRINK HENCEFORTH OF THIS FRUIT OF THE VINE, until that Day when I DRINK IT NEW WITH YOU in MY FATHER's KINGDOM.) For He MUST REIGN, till He hath PUT ALL ENEMIES under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under Him. And when all things shall be SUBDUED unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him, that GOD may be all in all.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

 

[Marty fox]

Sure but all I am doing is showing that the Amillennial version of the Millennium and what ruling is done is not what the bible describes in relation to that time period.

Millennium: the nations are ruled over by Christians.
Amillennial Millennium: the nations rule over Christians.

We need to look to spiritual over physical as physical is perishable but spiritual is everlasting and so much greater.

The Jewish nation had it wrong and the Jews looked to a physical kingdom by the messiah but God had a greater plan and Jesus brought a spiritual kingdom.

I believe many Christians today are making the same mistake about the reigning

 

[Oseas]

Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

What angels? The fallen angels of the churches, even those which are died. These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

 

[Oseas]

Behold, He cometh with clouds, of course ; Clouds and darkness are round about Him: righteousness and Judgment are the habitation of His throne, and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen. The Lord reigneth; let the earth rejoice; let the multitude of isles be glad thereof. A fire goeth before Him, and burneth up His enemies round about.
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

 

[Oseas]

TO ALL

Talking about the things of GOD from a human perspective is good for nothing. What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, understand? The Word is GOD, yeah, the Word is GOD.

What does the Word of GOD say?

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed. For this I say unto you by the Word of the Lord - the Word is GOD- , that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which died. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, (from the 3rd heaven- heaven is not sky, of course), with the voice of the archangel, and with the Trump of God, for the Trumpet shall sound and we(our carnal body) shall be changed/trnasformed, for this CORRUPTIBLE (our body) MUST put on INCORRUPTION, and this MORTAL (our body) MUST put on IMMORTALITY.

So when this CORRUPTIBLE(our body) shall have put on incorruption, and this MORTAL(our body) shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The earnest expectation of the creature waits for the manifestation of the sons of GOD. Because the creature ITSELF also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of GOD, waiting for the adoption,to wit, the REDEMPTION of our vile body.

Our conversation is in this current heaven (heaven is not sky, but a celestial place in Christ-Eph.1:v.3), from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, Who shall change OUR VILE BODY, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself, understand?

See, if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead DWELL in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead -the Word- shall also quicken your MORTAL BODIES by His Spirit that dwells in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh, for if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die. But if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of GOD, they are the sons of GOD.

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to GOD, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen

(1) Messiah, HWV 56: Part III: Aria: The trumpet shall sound (Bass) - YouTube

 

[dad]

But the bible doesn’t say Jesus rules with us on the earth for 1000 years after we return. The bible doesn’t even say that Jesus rules on the earth for 1000 years.

If He does why wouldn’t the bible plainly say so especially in revelation chapter 20?

So once again we’re does the bible mention Jesus ruling on the earth for 1000 years?

Sorry but I’m not trying to be cocky or disrespectful here but I’m just wanting to see why you and many other think that the bible teaches that we live with Jesus reigning on the earth for 1000 years?

It doesn’t the verse you provided say nothing about being on the earth what John sees is a vision up in heaven

He rules after He returns with His saints. You OK so far? He returns after the Tribulation. Still agree? Then He rules. We know we shall rule with Him as this is plain in other passages.

 

[dad]

Behold, He cometh with clouds, of course ; Clouds and darkness are round about Him: righteousness and Judgment are the habitation of His throne, and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen. The Lord reigneth; let the earth rejoice; let the multitude of isles be glad thereof. A fire goeth before Him, and burneth up His enemies round about.
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Notice a fire burns His enemies when He returns, not the planet?

 

[dad]

What cohesive point?

Do you believe it's not you but Christ who lives in you? If yes, why do you need the knowledge of good & evil to morally cross-check His workings through you?

No idea how that relates to anything in the thread. So here is a question for you that does. Do you believe we will go through the wrath of God or that we will be taken up in the air to be with Him? Do you believe that we will rule the world with Him for 1000 years after He returns? See, that is how you get on topic.

 

[ewq1938]

Notice a fire burns His enemies when He returns, not the planet?

Fire is not used to kill anyone at the second coming. Christ will however return so fast that it will be like appearing in a flash of lightning. It isn't a weapon though.

 

[dad]

Did you truly 'think' I quoted from 2 Corinthians 15 like you said above? There is NO 2 Corinthians 15 Chapter!

Sad to see a poster grasping at straws and trying to make a mountain out of a typo. Pathetic.

I quoted from 2 Corinthians 5, and from 1 Corinthians 15 about the "spiritual body" idea, of which YOU HAVE SAID NOTHING.

There was nothing saying spiritual body in the verses you cite. When we die we go to be with Him where He is. Now if you want to believe that we receive a physical body at that time, I am not going to argue on this thread. The dead who are raised get new bodies. Jesus got a new body. I believe we receive our eternal body at the Rapture. But as I said no need to argue that point since you do not even so much as believe in the Rapture or the 1000 year reign after He returns. No wonder you do not agree with the OP either, where it points out that those seeing the signs begin need to look up for the Rapture/redemption.

 

[dad]

Apostle Paul doesn't agree with you:

1 Cor 15:42-50
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

That means Christ's raised flesh body was transfigured... to the spiritual body. And to a spiritual body is what we all will have, which will be like Christ's 'quickened' body.

Jesus agrees. He pointed out He was real and could eat, and was not just a spirit! When Paul talked of our spiritual body he was talking about our eternal body that is spiritual but, like Jesus also physical! We shall be like Him. That's a slam dunk win.

 

[dad]

Fire is not used to kill anyone at the second coming. Christ will however return so fast that it will be like appearing in a flash of lightning. It isn't a weapon though.

I don't know, so I could agree. Whatever the fire is, it does not destroy the world we rule for 1000 years, which is the main point for the thread.

 

[Marty fox]

He rules after He returns with His saints. You OK so far? He returns after the Tribulation. Still agree? Then He rules. We know we shall rule with Him as this is plain in other passages.

You still haven’t provided one scripture saying that We reign with Jesus or even Jesus reigns on the earth for 1000 years. That’s all I am asking

No Jesus reigns now.

Revelation 3:14
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation

Romans 5:17
“For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.

Jesus is God and reigns over everything now

Jesus returns at the end of our world

We reign in life and death with Jesus now just like Paul says

You are giving me sayings not scriptures. Jesus doesn’t reign because satan is bound Jesus reigns because He is God and He reigns now

 

[Timtofly]

The reigning has nothing to do with the binding of satan Jesus doesn’t reign because satan is bound Jesus reigns because he is God.

The point is Satan shows up on earth at Armageddon. Jesus shows up on earth at Armageddon. When do you claim Jesus leaves the earth after Armageddon? Amil have to claim Jesus leaves earth. Not sure why Premil have to claim Jesus left after Armageddon. There is no Scripture claiming Jesus leaves. So you demanding a specific verse that states Jesus stays on the earth is disingenuous. Revelation 20 does not change scenes from earth to heaven. John was looking up, not down from above:

"And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand."

You claim John is in heaven. How can he be, if he saw an angel come down from heaven? Would it not have read:

"And I saw an angel go down to the earth, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand."

So Jesus is on the earth and just killed all humans. Cast the FP and beast into the LOF. Now we see thrones and judgment to resurrected humans still on earth. Because they reign with Jesus who is still on earth. They are all still on earth at end. Satan is not loosed in heaven to deceive the nations in heaven. Nope, all those who ruled and reigned are actually still alive on earth after 1,000 years and billions of offspring, at least 30 to 35 generations of offspring. That is who they rule over; their families spread across the earth.

So Amil need to prove Jesus left the earth. No one needs to prove He was on the earth.

 

[Timtofly]

We need to look to spiritual over physical as physical is perishable but spiritual is everlasting and so much greater.

The Jewish nation had it wrong and the Jews looked to a physical kingdom by the messiah but God had a greater plan and Jesus brought a spiritual kingdom.

I believe many Christians today are making the same mistake about the reigning

Stop projecting first century Judaism onto us Premil today. That is underhanded.

The issue is that the church is physical now in Paradise and already reigning with Christ. Amil even reject the physical part, currently available since the Cross in heaven. Then reject a physical reign on earth in the future. Adam's disobedience separated his offspring from all that is spiritual, but there is physical equally in heaven along with the spiritual. There is even spiritual here on earth, that we adamic flesh cannot see all around us. Why do Christians, today choose to separate the physical from the spiritual when Jesus came to make creation whole as one physical and spiritual creation? In Christ there is no separation. In Paradise they already have a permanent incorruptible physical body. They are no longer bound in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. This flesh is different and a tent. That flesh in Paradise is the original permanent God created incorruptible flesh. There is no division in heaven between the spiritual and physical.

That is not placing Adam's flesh into the spiritual. That is the quickening bought with the blood of the Lamb to restore the death, Adam experienced when he disobeyed God. Jesus promised that at the Cross, not one redeemed soul would ever taste death again. So, at the Cross those in Abraham's bosom tasting death were resurrected bodily. They now have a permanent incorruptible physical body. They are now reigning in Paradise with Jesus Christ. One by one the NT redeemed have joined them. The dead in Christ have risen first. Not one person alive went to heaven before those who have already arrived. At the Second Coming all will have been changed, and the church will then be glorified. The full image of God restored, body, soul, and spirit. No more separation of spiritual from the physical. Those left on earth will feel just as naked as Adam and Eve did on that day Adam disobeyed God. Because they will see what the church looks like fully restored, and they will still be dead in their sins.

 

[dad]

You still haven’t provided one scripture saying that We reign with Jesus or even Jesus reigns on the earth for 1000 years. That’s all I am asking

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

That is after He returns. Do you believe in the 1000 years that we reign with Him after He comes or not? That is the only issue, whether or not you pretend the bible does not say it.

No Jesus reigns now.

Is that where Putin and Biden get their orders? We are to pray that it will be one day on earth as it is in heaven. That day is not now!

Jesus is God and reigns over everything now

False, He called Satan the prince of this world and He was offered all the kingdoms of the world, but refused.

Jesus returns at the end of our world

That is meaningless. He returns when He says He does and that is after the tribulation.

We reign in life and death with Jesus now just like Paul says

No you do not reign at all. That is not even a sane or serious statement.

Jesus doesn’t reign because satan is bound Jesus reigns because He is God and He reigns now

He does not reign on earth now. That is why He is coming back. He'll fix that.

 

[dad]

If you commit stealing, will you be taken up in the rapture?

If you glanced at a passing women would you still be saved? That is adultery. Did you get angry with someone and not forgive them before the sun went down? Did you have a hateful thought?

The issue is not whether we are sinless and perfect. Just get over that one. Why are you asking who Jesus will take into the air?? Do you believe that there is a Rapture that takes us away so that we are not here for the wrath of God?

 

[Marty fox]

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

That is after He returns. Do you believe in the 1000 years that we reign with Him after He comes or not? That is the only issue, whether or not you pretend the bible does not say it.
Is that where Putin and Biden get their orders? We are to pray that it will be one day on earth as it is in heaven. That day is not now!

False, He called Satan the prince of this world and He was offered all the kingdoms of the world, but refused.

That is meaningless. He returns when He says He does and that is after the tribulation.
No you do not reign at all. That is not even a sane or serious statement.
He does not reign on earth now. That is why He is coming back. He'll fix that.

Revelation 20:4 says nothing about us and Jesus reigning on the earth. You said in post #702 that the bible says that Jesus and the saints reign on the earth for 1000 years and it doesn’t say that.

We reign with Jesus now not after He returns just like Paul teaches in Roman’s 5:17

So I don’t pretend the bible doesn’t say it because it doesn’t.

If you read my previous post in the last few pages in the thread you will see that the reigning is spiritual with Jesus not a physical reigning. The issue is what exactly does the bible teach that the reigning is.

Yes Jesus returns after the tribulation on the saints at the end of our world. The tribulation of the saints is different from the wrath of God.

You keep just saying comments to me but you still are not providing even one scripture showing Jesus reigning on the earth with us for 1000 years.

Again I’m not trying to be difficult but showing what the bible teaches and what the bible doesn’t teach

 

[Marty fox]

The point is Satan shows up on earth at Armageddon. Jesus shows up on earth at Armageddon. When do you claim Jesus leaves the earth after Armageddon? Amil have to claim Jesus leaves earth. Not sure why Premil have to claim Jesus left after Armageddon. There is no Scripture claiming Jesus leaves. So you demanding a specific verse that states Jesus stays on the earth is disingenuous. Revelation 20 does not change scenes from earth to heaven. John was looking up, not down from above:

"And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand."

You claim John is in heaven. How can he be, if he saw an angel come down from heaven? Would it not have read:

"And I saw an angel go down to the earth, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand."

So Jesus is on the earth and just killed all humans. Cast the FP and beast into the LOF. Now we see thrones and judgment to resurrected humans still on earth. Because they reign with Jesus who is still on earth. They are all still on earth at end. Satan is not loosed in heaven to deceive the nations in heaven. Nope, all those who ruled and reigned are actually still alive on earth after 1,000 years and billions of offspring, at least 30 to 35 generations of offspring. That is who they rule over; their families spread across the earth.

So Amil need to prove Jesus left the earth. No one needs to prove He was on the earth.

Where do you see Jesus showing up on the earth at Armageddon? The battle at Armageddon is in revelation chapter 16 when the beast destroys Babylon the great not in revelation chapter 19 when Jesus defeats the beast as Armageddon is not even mentioned in revelation chapter 19 .

I never demanded that Jesus leaves the earth after Armageddon I don't think that He ever comes to the earth. But if He is on the earth during the 1000 years why does revelation 20:9 only say that satan gathers his army around the camp of Gods people and not say that satan gathers his army around Jesus and the camp of Gods people?

John is up in heaven just like Revelation 4:2 says he is up in heaven seeing visions of what happens in heaven and on earth.

If know one knows when Jesus will return how come the beast and the false prophet has gathered his army to do battle with Jesus?

Maybe because its not a one time literal battle but a spiritual battle as the only weapon mentioned is the sword of Jesus mouth which isn't a literal sword but His word which is all powerful and saves and condemns. Maybe its repeated events of Jesus defeating all of his foes over time like the verse below. Remember in Rev 19:11 John see Jesus up in heaven riding His horse

Revelation 2:16
16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth

What I am claiming does not contradict any of the bible I am claiming what the bible says.

 

[Marty fox]

Stop projecting first century Judaism onto us Premil today. That is underhanded.

The issue is that the church is physical now in Paradise and already reigning with Christ. Amil even reject the physical part, currently available since the Cross in heaven. Then reject a physical reign on earth in the future. Adam's disobedience separated his offspring from all that is spiritual, but there is physical equally in heaven along with the spiritual. There is even spiritual here on earth, that we adamic flesh cannot see all around us. Why do Christians, today choose to separate the physical from the spiritual when Jesus came to make creation whole as one physical and spiritual creation? In Christ there is no separation. In Paradise they already have a permanent incorruptible physical body. They are no longer bound in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. This flesh is different and a tent. That flesh in Paradise is the original permanent God created incorruptible flesh. There is no division in heaven between the spiritual and physical.

That is not placing Adam's flesh into the spiritual. That is the quickening bought with the blood of the Lamb to restore the death, Adam experienced when he disobeyed God. Jesus promised that at the Cross, not one redeemed soul would ever taste death again. So, at the Cross those in Abraham's bosom tasting death were resurrected bodily. They now have a permanent incorruptible physical body. They are now reigning in Paradise with Jesus Christ. One by one the NT redeemed have joined them. The dead in Christ have risen first. Not one person alive went to heaven before those who have already arrived. At the Second Coming all will have been changed, and the church will then be glorified. The full image of God restored, body, soul, and spirit. No more separation of spiritual from the physical. Those left on earth will feel just as naked as Adam and Eve did on that day Adam disobeyed God. Because they will see what the church looks like fully restored, and they will still be dead in their sins.

I believe that we reign now spiritually in heaven and on earth