When will God gather Israel?

[Davy]

The dead are dead Taken. Nothing lives on sir. Although the Bible don't speak much about the condition of the dead, it does tell us point blank what happens:
(Psalm 146:3, 4) . . .Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation. 4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish.
(Ecclesiastes 9:5-10) . . .For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. . . 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.

It is quite clear, and it can be comforting to us as no one is suffering in the grave. Because they have no knowledge, their resurrection into a much better world will seem like it happened in an instant of time. How we look forward to the resurrection that will bring our dead loved ones back to us.

Yeah, that interpretation is baloney, especially Ecclesiastes 9, because Solomon was CONTRASTING the saved vs. the wicked dead there. He showed the 'dead' will never again have anything to do under the sun, and all their memory is perished. Is that really about those asleep in Jesus Christ too? No! Of course not, that is about the truly 'dead' like the giant hybrids God told Israel to wipe out. In the Isaiah 26:14 verse, we are shown those giant hybrids will not rise (i.e., not be resurrected). Even the wicked dead will have their own "resurrection of damnation", but not those giant hybrids which God did not create.

And if you had read further on, in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7, Solomon points to what happens at flesh death. The flesh goes back to the ground where it came from, and the spirit goes back to God Who gave it. Even the idea of a "silver cord" being severed when that happens is mentioned, showing like Jesus said in John 3, that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit.

Pretty clear your thinking is carnal, and of your flesh, showing lack of understanding of spiritual things.

 

[Taken]

When will God gather Israel?
OP ^

During the days of Gods Tribulations (TRUMPS) sent down from Heaven.

 

[Dropship]

When will God gather Israel?

Never.
Why should he want to save them for killing his son?
Same goes for all other Jesus-rejecters, they'll be going up the spout unless they repent and become Christians BEFORE they die..

 

[dad]

Never.
Why should he want to save them for killing his son?
Same goes for all other Jesus-rejecters, they'll be going up the spout unless they repent and become Christians BEFORE they die..

He does not save us because of our sin, but in spite of it. He promised He would, is that not reason enough?

 

[Dropship]

Jews and all other Jesus-rejecters will be going up the spout unless they repent and become Christians BEFORE they die..

He does not save us because of our sin, but in spite of it. He promised He would, is that not reason enough?

But Jesus-rejecters don't WANT to be saved..
Anyway if they'll be in heaven it'd be a case of "oops there goes the neighbourhood" and I wouldn't want to go..

 

[dad]

But Jesus-rejecters don't WANT to be saved..
Anyway if they'll be in heaven it'd be a case of "oops there goes the neighbourhood" and I wouldn't want to go..

View attachment 25386

The remnant in the end after the time of Jacob's trouble will want Jesus and receive Him and be sorry. Sorry, you can't flush them all down the toilet as well as all the promises of God.

 

[Dropship]

The remnant in the end after the time of Jacob's trouble will want Jesus and receive Him and be sorry. Sorry, you can't flush them all down the toilet as well as all the promises of God.

If the remnant of jews think they'll get a "second chance" to become christians after they die, they might as well whistle dixie for all the good it'll do them..
Purgatory is another nonsensical belief where satan has duped people into believing they'll be let out of hell after they've served a certain time, as if hell is fitted with a swing door..

 

[dad]

If the remnant of jews think they'll get a "second chance" to become christians after they die, they might as well whistle dixie for all the good it'll do them..

The ones who die are the ones who did not accept Him. The remnant left alive will finally be saved in the end. That is not dying or after death. God will keep His word and promises. Period. Whether you like it or lump it.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Disagree.
Body’s become physically dead and buried.
All Living souls (saved or not), depart the dead body.
Quickened Living spirits depart the dead body.



True. Physically dead body’s, know nothing, suffer nothing.

However there ARE many departed unsaved living souls suffering separations from God, in hell.



Many individuals “loved ones”, shall not be gathered together. They shall be damned and forgotten.

If you cannot believe the Bible, what more can be stated?

 

[Robert Gwin]

What are you talking about....”not believing “it”?
Jesus IS a mans Salvation.

Then why did you think some were saved prior to Jesus' death, and even before their own birth? Again your words: The 144,000 are not part of the “FIRST, LAST Resurrection”. They were already “redeemed”. From Ancient days.

Any who are redeemed are redeemed through Jesus' shed blood given in sacrifice.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yeah, that interpretation is baloney, especially Ecclesiastes 9, because Solomon was CONTRASTING the saved vs. the wicked dead there. He showed the 'dead' will never again have anything to do under the sun, and all their memory is perished. Is that really about those asleep in Jesus Christ too? No! Of course not, that is about the truly 'dead' like the giant hybrids God told Israel to wipe out. In the Isaiah 26:14 verse, we are shown those giant hybrids will not rise (i.e., not be resurrected). Even the wicked dead will have their own "resurrection of damnation", but not those giant hybrids which God did not create.

And if you had read further on, in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7, Solomon points to what happens at flesh death. The flesh goes back to the ground where it came from, and the spirit goes back to God Who gave it. Even the idea of a "silver cord" being severed when that happens is mentioned, showing like Jesus said in John 3, that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit.

Pretty clear your thinking is carnal, and of your flesh, showing lack of understanding of spiritual things.

Although Jehovah chose to have it in His inspired word, if you cannot believe Solomon, will you believe God? (Genesis 2:17) . . .But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.”
(Genesis 3:19) . . .In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

Remember it was satan who said they wouldn't dieGenesis 3:4) . . .At this the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die.

If everyone has eternal life, then why did Jesus die sir? No, I believe God, if He says we die and defines death in His word, then I believe it sir. How could you possibly know more than He does about it anyway?

 

[Dropship]

The ones who die are the ones who did not accept Him. The remnant left alive will finally be saved in the end. That is not dying or after death. God will keep His word and promises. Period. Whether you like it or lump it.

If the remnant of jews become Christians BEFORE they die they should be okay, but if they die as unrepentant jews they'll be going up the spout along with all other Jesus-rejecters-
Death is the 'Endgame' for everybody without any second chances..-
"He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still." (Revelation 22:11)

 

[Taken]

If you cannot believe the Bible, what more can be stated?

Yes, Believe the Bible.

All Living souls depart a dying body, and those souls continue living, while their body is buried.
Saved souls, continue living, go to Heaven to wait judgement.
Unsaved souls, continue living, go to Hell to wait judgement.
Quicken spirits, never die, go to Gods Hand in Heaven.

Gen 35:
[17] And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also.
[18] And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Ben-oni: but his father called him Benjamin.
[19] And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem.

1 Kings 17:
[17] And it came to pass after these things, that the son of the woman, the mistress of the house, fell sick; and his sickness was so sore, that there was no breath left in him.
[18] And she said unto Elijah, What have I to do with thee, O thou man of God? art thou come unto me to call my sin to remembrance, and to slay my son?
[19] And he said unto her, Give me thy son. And he took him out of her bosom, and carried him up into a loft, where he abode, and laid him upon his own bed.
[20] And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son?
[21] And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
[22] And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.
[23] And Elijah took the child, and brought him down out of the chamber into the house, and delivered him unto his mother: and Elijah said, See, thy son liveth.

Pss 35:
[5] Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth.

Luke 16:
[19] There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
[20] And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
[21] And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
[22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
[23] And in hell he (the rich man) lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
[24] And he (the rich mans body was buried and his living unsaved soul was in hell in torments ) soul cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
[25] But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
[26] And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

 

[Taken]

Then why did you think some were saved prior to Jesus' death

Jesus is the NAME of Gods Word, that God Revealed to men WHEN God sent His Word TO EARTH, “in the likeness as a man”, SO men ON Earth,
COULD SEE Him.

The Word of God (ie AKS, the Lamb of God) was SLAIN, KILLED, Before mankind was Created.

Rev 13:
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

HOW, WHEN, WHERE?

Lucifer, a heavenly holy angel. Claimed “he” would rise ABOVE God, have “his” throne ABOVE God...THAT IS A LIE. That LIE was the KILLING OF Gods Word, Gods Truth.
* Lucifer was cast down from heaven, BECAUSE He KILLED Gods Word.
* He was renamed Satan, called the Devil, called the Serpent, called a LIAR, called a MURDERER from the Beginning...or the foundation of “this” World, the habitat of mankind.

Isa 14:
[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
[13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

John 8:
[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

and even before their own birth?

The “BIRTH” of Gods OWN WORD, was the FIRST TIME, Gods OWN WORD came forth OUT of GODS MOUTH.

Gen 1:
3: God SAID...

[QUOT] Again your words: The 144,000 are not part of the “FIRST, LAST Resurrection”. They were already “redeemed”. From Ancient days.[/QUOTE]

Yes, as I said, they WERE REDEEMED. They WERE, alive humans, they died, they were Saved, they shall return in their risen body’s....
Their risen body’s ARE Glorified.
Because they ARE Glorified, a humans eyes would NOT be able to SEE them........
** HOWEVER...Glorified Body’s of human men.....ARE thereafter “LIKE” angels.
** Angels are spirits, BUT HAVE THE ABILITY to “APPEAR IN THE LIKENESS AS A NATURAL HUMAN MAN”.

Mark 12:
[25] For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Any who are redeemed are redeemed through Jesus' shed blood given in sacrifice.

Jesus’ BLOOD, allows for Forgiveness.

Jesus...(as we know His Name)...The Lamb of God...(as we know He is called by the name Jesus)......
** WAS always IN God, WITH God, and Had the Ability and Authority TO SAVE Men, from the Beginning of Mankind.

144,000 were virgin, men, of every Tribe of Israel, lived, died, and shall be Sent, IN BODY”S human men can SEE, to preach and teach All tribes of Israel, ON Mt. Zion, the Gospel of Jesus Christ....SO THAT THEY (all tribes of Israel), can BE ACCOUNTED, FORGIVEN by the BLOOD of Jesus, their souls Saved, their spirits quickened, and their body’s thereafter killed, and then raised up.

ORDER and WAY according to God and Gods Understanding.

 

[Davy]

Although Jehovah chose to have it in His inspired word, if you cannot believe Solomon, will you believe God? (Genesis 2:17)

Oh, I believe what Solomon said there, but to do that ONE MUST FIRST UNDERSTAND WHAT SOLOMON SAID THERE. You don't, you're just regurgitating a bunch of doctrines from men that you've been taught without thinking for yourself.

Ecclesiastes 9 is often used by those on the Jew's false 'dead in the ground' theory.


In the Ecclesiastes 9:1-3 verses, Solomon is speaking of death in general that happens to all men. But in Ecclesiastes 9:4-6 he is pointing to the 'dead' in the sense of those who PERISH.

So here's an easy way to understand this, ask yourself if the following phrases in red actually apply to those in Christ Jesus...

Eccl 9:4-6
4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
KJV

Do those ideas in 'red' apply to those asleep in Jesus? Do those in Christ that have died have any more REWARD? Is their MEMORY FORGOTTEN? No, of course not! But that DOES apply to the wicked who PERISH IN THE FUTURE LAKE OF FIRE.

Same thing in the 6th verse, do those who sleep in Jesus have anything more to do under the sun? Of course they still do, when Jesus comes to gather them at His 2nd coming! And notice that is also pointing to those who's love, hatred, and envy is now perished. That especially is about the WICKED DEAD WHO PERISH IN THE FUTURE LAKE OF FIRE.

So actually, when some try... to use that Eccl.9 chapter to prove when we die in the flesh that we know nothing, they are actually pointing to the truly wicked 'dead' that perish in the lake of fire, and NOT about the asleep saints that have died in Christ Jesus.


The Ultimate DEAD:

Isa 26:14
14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased (Rephaim), they shall not rise: therefore hast Thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
KJV

The word for "deceased" above is actually the name Rephaim, which the KJV translators did not always bring it into the English as a proper name for the hybrid giants of Genesis.

Those giant hybrids shall not resurrect is the meaning above. And that actually points out that those are... about a real hybrid giant race that once walked this earth in Genesis from the mating of the fallen angels with flesh woman, as written in Genesis 6. Why? Because ALL men born in the flesh according to God's order and creation will have a resurrection, the just and the unjust. But not those hybrid giants which God did not create.


Ps 88:10
10 Wilt Thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead (Rephaim) arise and praise thee? Selah.
KJV

The word Rephaim was a proper name for the hybrid giants of Genesis.

In the KJV translation, the translators did not bring that proper name Rephaim into English as they did in other Old Testament Scripture (2 Samuel 5:18, 5:22; 2 Samuel 23:13; 1 Chronicles 11:15; 1 Chronicles 14:9; and Isaiah 17:5.)

Likewise in that Psalms 88:10 verse, the second appearance of that word "dead" is actually the name Rephaim, pointing to the hybrid giants that were destroyed, and the fact that they shall NOT resurrect.

Therefore, it is very... important to understand about the BIBLICAL idea of 'the dead', as it does NOT always point to our loved ones who have already died in Christ Jesus.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yes, Believe the Bible.

All Living souls depart a dying body, and those souls continue living, while their body is buried.
Saved souls, continue living, go to Heaven to wait judgement.
Unsaved souls, continue living, go to Hell to wait judgement.
Quicken spirits, never die, go to Gods Hand in Heaven.

Gen 35:
[17] And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also.
[18] And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Ben-oni: but his father called him Benjamin.
[19] And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem.

1 Kings 17:
[17] And it came to pass after these things, that the son of the woman, the mistress of the house, fell sick; and his sickness was so sore, that there was no breath left in him.
[18] And she said unto Elijah, What have I to do with thee, O thou man of God? art thou come unto me to call my sin to remembrance, and to slay my son?
[19] And he said unto her, Give me thy son. And he took him out of her bosom, and carried him up into a loft, where he abode, and laid him upon his own bed.
[20] And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son?
[21] And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
[22] And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.
[23] And Elijah took the child, and brought him down out of the chamber into the house, and delivered him unto his mother: and Elijah said, See, thy son liveth.

Pss 35:
[5] Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth.

Luke 16:
[19] There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
[20] And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
[21] And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
[22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
[23] And in hell he (the rich man) lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
[24] And he (the rich mans body was buried and his living unsaved soul was in hell in torments ) soul cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
[25] But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
[26] And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Your own quote from the Bible sir: her soul was in departing, (for she died)

I guess you are unaware of what Nephesh is, and how it is used:
Xpn Nephesh (neh'-fesh); Noun Feminine, Strong #: 5315

1. soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
   1. that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
   2. living being
   3. living being (with life in the blood)
   4. the man himself, self, person or individual
   5. seat of the appetites
   6. seat of emotions and passions
   7. activity of mind
      1. dubious
   8. activity of the will
      1. dubious
   9. activity of the character
      1. dubious

KJV Word Usage and Count
soul 475
life 117
person 29
mind 15
heart 15
creature 9
body 8
himself 8
yourselves 6
dead 5
will 4
desire 4
man 3
themselves 3
any 3
appetite 2
miscellaneous 47

Nephesh is the entirety of a carnal being, either live or dead. Gods spirit Ruach animates us or in other words gives us life, if that spirit goes out we die, and are a dead soul. It is really the Ruach that gives us life, but animals and man fleshly beings are all souls, we all die, and we all go to the same place upon death, to sheol.
(Ecclesiastes 3:18-20) . . .I also said in my heart about the sons of men that the true God will test them and show them that they are like animals, 19 for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.

You do realize the rich man and Lazarus is a parable right? It has nothing whatsoever to do with the afterlife, rather a change of God's favor.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Jesus is the NAME of Gods Word, that God Revealed to men WHEN God sent His Word TO EARTH, “in the likeness as a man”, SO men ON Earth,
COULD SEE Him.

The Word of God (ie AKS, the Lamb of God) was SLAIN, KILLED, Before mankind was Created.

Rev 13:
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

HOW, WHEN, WHERE?

Lucifer, a heavenly holy angel. Claimed “he” would rise ABOVE God, have “his” throne ABOVE God...THAT IS A LIE. That LIE was the KILLING OF Gods Word, Gods Truth.
* Lucifer was cast down from heaven, BECAUSE He KILLED Gods Word.
* He was renamed Satan, called the Devil, called the Serpent, called a LIAR, called a MURDERER from the Beginning...or the foundation of “this” World, the habitat of mankind.

Isa 14:
[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
[13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

John 8:
[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.




The “BIRTH” of Gods OWN WORD, was the FIRST TIME, Gods OWN WORD came forth OUT of GODS MOUTH.

Gen 1:
3: God SAID...

[QUOT] Again your words: The 144,000 are not part of the “FIRST, LAST Resurrection”. They were already “redeemed”. From Ancient days.

Yes, as I said, they WERE REDEEMED. They WERE, alive humans, they died, they were Saved, they shall return in their risen body’s....
Their risen body’s ARE Glorified.
Because they ARE Glorified, a humans eyes would NOT be able to SEE them........
** HOWEVER...Glorified Body’s of human men.....ARE thereafter “LIKE” angels.
** Angels are spirits, BUT HAVE THE ABILITY to “APPEAR IN THE LIKENESS AS A NATURAL HUMAN MAN”.

Mark 12:
[25] For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.



Jesus’ BLOOD, allows for Forgiveness.

Jesus...(as we know His Name)...The Lamb of God...(as we know He is called by the name Jesus)......
** WAS always IN God, WITH God, and Had the Ability and Authority TO SAVE Men, from the Beginning of Mankind.

144,000 were virgin, men, of every Tribe of Israel, lived, died, and shall be Sent, IN BODY”S human men can SEE, to preach and teach All tribes of Israel, ON Mt. Zion, the Gospel of Jesus Christ....SO THAT THEY (all tribes of Israel), can BE ACCOUNTED, FORGIVEN by the BLOOD of Jesus, their souls Saved, their spirits quickened, and their body’s thereafter killed, and then raised up.

ORDER and WAY according to God and Gods Understanding.[/QUOTE]

Our conversation on this has concluded sir, we disagree.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Oh, I believe what Solomon said there, but to do that ONE MUST FIRST UNDERSTAND WHAT SOLOMON SAID THERE. You don't, you're just regurgitating a bunch of doctrines from men that you've been taught without thinking for yourself.

Ecclesiastes 9 is often used by those on the Jew's false 'dead in the ground' theory.


In the Ecclesiastes 9:1-3 verses, Solomon is speaking of death in general that happens to all men. But in Ecclesiastes 9:4-6 he is pointing to the 'dead' in the sense of those who PERISH.

So here's an easy way to understand this, ask yourself if the following phrases in red actually apply to those in Christ Jesus...

Eccl 9:4-6
4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
KJV

Do those ideas in 'red' apply to those asleep in Jesus? Do those in Christ that have died have any more REWARD? Is their MEMORY FORGOTTEN? No, of course not! But that DOES apply to the wicked who PERISH IN THE FUTURE LAKE OF FIRE.

Same thing in the 6th verse, do those who sleep in Jesus have anything more to do under the sun? Of course they still do, when Jesus comes to gather them at His 2nd coming! And notice that is also pointing to those who's love, hatred, and envy is now perished. That especially is about the WICKED DEAD WHO PERISH IN THE FUTURE LAKE OF FIRE.

So actually, when some try... to use that Eccl.9 chapter to prove when we die in the flesh that we know nothing, they are actually pointing to the truly wicked 'dead' that perish in the lake of fire, and NOT about the asleep saints that have died in Christ Jesus.


The Ultimate DEAD:

Isa 26:14
14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased (Rephaim), they shall not rise: therefore hast Thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
KJV

The word for "deceased" above is actually the name Rephaim, which the KJV translators did not always bring it into the English as a proper name for the hybrid giants of Genesis.

Those giant hybrids shall not resurrect is the meaning above. And that actually points out that those are... about a real hybrid giant race that once walked this earth in Genesis from the mating of the fallen angels with flesh woman, as written in Genesis 6. Why? Because ALL men born in the flesh according to God's order and creation will have a resurrection, the just and the unjust. But not those hybrid giants which God did not create.


Ps 88:10
10 Wilt Thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead (Rephaim) arise and praise thee? Selah.
KJV

The word Rephaim was a proper name for the hybrid giants of Genesis.

In the KJV translation, the translators did not bring that proper name Rephaim into English as they did in other Old Testament Scripture (2 Samuel 5:18, 5:22; 2 Samuel 23:13; 1 Chronicles 11:15; 1 Chronicles 14:9; and Isaiah 17:5.)

Likewise in that Psalms 88:10 verse, the second appearance of that word "dead" is actually the name Rephaim, pointing to the hybrid giants that were destroyed, and the fact that they shall NOT resurrect.

Therefore, it is very... important to understand about the BIBLICAL idea of 'the dead', as it does NOT always point to our loved ones who have already died in Christ Jesus.

If satan is correct and humans cannot die, and there was no need for Jesus to die, no need for a resurrection, and most of those God resurrects are going to be tortured forever, why wouldn't I join up with him and stand against God. I don't even know where to begin with you sir. You over complicate the simple. God says we will die, because of sin I might add, He sent His son to redeem us through his shed blood, and there will be a resurrection of all who have died, with the exception of those who sinned against the holy spirit, not hard to understand, and I believe it Davy.

 

[Davy]

If satan is correct and humans cannot die, and there was no need for Jesus to die, no need for a resurrection, and most of those God resurrects are going to be tortured forever, why wouldn't I join up with him and stand against God.

Uh, what? Are you trying to sound intelligent or something? That actually doesn't make a lot of sense what you're saying there.

God told Adam and Eve that the 'day' that they ate of the tree in the midst of the Garden, that would be the 'day' they would die. Per 2 Peter 3, to God one day is like a thousand years, and within that thousand years period Adam died; he didn't quite make it a whole thousand. So what God said came to pass.

But that old serpent (Satan) in Eden merely tempted Adam and Eve with lies, that they would not die, but become gods. That is still what Satan's Occult workers on earth today believe and teach, that one can reach perfection of their flesh and be released from the wheel of rebirth, and never die again, becoming gods.

That was all old Bible history about the temptation of Adam and Eve's flesh which led to the first flesh sin imparted to all men at birth. So that was imparted in your flesh when you were born from your mother's womb, so HOW do you think you could ever escape that sinful state without the Blood of Jesus Christ? Thus your reasoning on those things are just not realistic, nor Biblical.

I don't even know where to begin with you sir. You over complicate the simple. God says we will die, because of sin I might add, He sent His son to redeem us through his shed blood, and there will be a resurrection of all who have died, with the exception of those who sinned against the holy spirit, not hard to understand, and I believe it Davy.

I do not over complicate the simple. I merely RECOGNIZE & REMEMBER the simple Scriptures, and here is one of them by Lord Jesus that you apparently have forgotten...

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

1. "they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life"

and...

2. "they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation"


Do you see a resurrection for BOTH in the above, the Just and unjust according to Lord Jesus?

 

[Taken]

Your own quote from the Bible sir: her soul was in departing, (for she died)

The BODY of a Human’s LIFE IS it’s BLOOD.
The LIFE of a soul IN a human’s Body...is via...Gods BREATH.
The QUICKENED LIFE of a spirit IN a human’s BODY...is via..Gods SEED.

The body, soul, spirit OF a Human man: IS the whole of a Human man.

* All body’s of humans SHALL DIE...God Requires it.
* Gods BREATH, never dies. And to date, Gods Breath has NEVER DEPARTED from a SOUL that IS or was, IN an individual mans Living body.
* Gods SPIRIT, never dies. And to date, Gods Spirit was WITH, and is WITH...some men....and THAT “WITH”, is always subject to CHANGE!
* Gods SPIRIT, to date IS >>>IN>>> a FEW select men, and THAT, IS ONLY subject to CHANGE, WHEN the man IS RAISED ... IN...his own glorified BODY.

You do realize the rich man and Lazarus is a parable right? It has nothing whatsoever to do with the afterlife, rather a change of God's favor.

Actually, A parable, according to a MANS UNDERSTANDING, is simply a similitude of words to make a POINT.

God Word, that CAN NOT LIE, has ZERO meaning, IF it is called a Parable, a bed-time story, a joke, or anything else...

Jesus EXPRESSLY spoke in Parables....WHY?
1) To fulfill Prophecy...

Pss 78:
[2] I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

2) To Speak to all people one speech...one teaching...
A) That individually SOME will Believe...
B) That individually SOME will NOT Believe...

Matt 13:
[10] And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
[13] Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
[34] All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
[35] That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; (Because) I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.


IF you hear, read Jesus’ Parables, AND DO NOT BELIEVE Jesus IS the TRUTH, AND CAN NOT LIE, you are of the GROUP Jesus identified AS:
“they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.”

You do realize the rich man and Lazarus is a parable right? It has nothing whatsoever to do with the afterlife, rather a change of God's favor.

No.
Jesus’ is the Word of God. He cannot LIE. Every Word that He Spoke IS Gods TRUTH. And KNOWING And TRUSTING Gods TRUTH has EVERYTHING to do with a mans “after-life” !!

Should you have been present IN the crowd Jesus was SPEAKING TO:
What you portray IS: you would have been WITH the CROWD, that Walked away, UNBELIEVING, Jesus was speaking complete Truth!

Maybe it would be wise for you to READ every one of Jesus’ parables with a different perspective...that they ARE absolute Truths.

Just sayin...