When will God gather Israel?

[dad]

Are you Jewish or of ANY of the 12 Tribes?
IF NOT, the two witness, the 144,000 are not being sent to you, for you.

The issue is that they are real live people, not dead and in the heavens.

If you are still waiting to BECOME SAVED, you are still IN YOUR NATURAL FLESH BODY.

Those saved already would not ne waiting for salvation. Is that not patently obvious?

If you ARE Saved, your body was CRUCIFIED.

I see, so you are talking spiritually or something. Does this mean that you actually think the 144,000 are really alive and people on earth also?

Do you know what Crucified means?

Well, since you are applying the word to people that are alive and well, maybe you better define it?

The 144,000....already died, already were Saved, already were Quickened, already were Redeemed....already ARE LIKE “holy” ANGELS...

No idea what that means, how about answering in plain English? The 144,000 witnesses of the tribulation, do you think they are real people on earth that are alive or not? That is a yes or no answer, no attempted riddles needed.

WHAT is an ANGEL LIKE?
Do they have the capability of APPEARING LIKE A MAN? YES
How do we KNOW Angels CAN APPEAR LOOKING LIKE A MAN?

Why would the nature and ability of angels be mentioned here in regards to the witnesses in the tribulation?

The 144,000 WILL APPEAR TO TRIBESMEN (ISRAEL) AS MEN, TO teach the TRIBESMEN, the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

OK, now that seems like a clear position. You are saying that the witnesses running around witnessing in the final years are not real people at all, and not alive, but just somehow spiritually pop in to witness. Hilarious.

 

[dad]

FALSE.
While physically alive, you are saved...
WHEN YOU HEARTFULLY CONFESS YOUR BELIEF!

Any man can BELIEVE for days, months, years and NEVER CONFESS their BELIEF....they are NOT SAVED.

IF that same man BELIEVES on the day of his DEATH, THEN he will be saved.

Salvation IS NOT GIVEN UNTIL a BELIEVING BODY DIES!

1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Not really interested in opinionated left field lost in space dogmatic time wasting rubbish. There have been billions saved probably in the last few thousand years. Real alive people. Your doctrine is not grounded in reality or the bible. We will get a new body one day. (hence the seed comparison)
Meanwhile the saved are very much alive on earth right now. In fact that is what the rapture is all about, raising the saved dead bodies and and also those alive bodily.

 

[Taken]

Not really interested in opinionated left field lost in space dogmatic time wasting rubbish. There have been billions saved probably in the last few thousand years. Real alive people. Your doctrine is not grounded in reality or the bible. We will get a new body one day. (hence the seed comparison)
Meanwhile the saved are very much alive on earth right now. In fact that is what the rapture is all about, raising the saved dead bodies and and also those alive bodily.

You are not equipped to engage in a Spiritual Conversation.
Correct, I was not speaking in reality, rather Spiritually.
False, I was not speaking my doctrine, rather Jesus’ doctrine.
Sorry to have mistaken you for having the ability to have a Spiritual Conversation and wasted your time and mine.

John 3
[12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

 

[dad]

You are not equipped to engage in a Spiritual Conversation.

Self righteous drivel

Correct, I was not speaking in reality, rather Spiritually.

Try speaking clear. Are the 144,000 real people really alive on earth in the end or not?

False, I was not speaking my doctrine, rather Jesus’ doctrine.

Sorry, you can't hide under that chirade. You have demonstrated a total lack of ability to make any case biblically (let alone be clear or make sense)

Sorry to have mistaken you for having the ability to have a Spiritual Conversation and wasted your time and mine.

It is a waste of time trying to get you to speak truth or be clear. Maybe find a joke thread.

John 3
[12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Trying to misuse the words of Jesus because it has the word spiritual in the verse is akin to blasphemy and dishonesty. You could not even answer a simple question about whether the 144,000 are real people in real bodies on a real earth in a real end time period or not. Then you pretend that posters that want a clear honest reply are unable to 'engage in a spiritual conversation'.

Pathetic.

You remind me of a saying I heard years ago 'he ain't deep, he just ain't clear'

 

[Robert Gwin]

The 144,000 are not part of the “FIRST, LAST Resurrection”. They were already “redeemed”. From Ancient days.



They were redeemed, Gathered, BEFORE, Jesus was revealed, SEEN on earth.

HOW was that possible, SINCE Jesus (the Word of God) had not YET died on the CROSS?
Because BEFORE man WAS CREATED ... WHAT occurred IN HEAVEN, Was THE “WORD OF GOD” was “KILLED’.
How? By Whom?
How...was TURNING the TRUTH of God into a LIE...
By Whom....a holy Angel, called Lucifer.
How...WHAT LIE, Killed Gods Truth?
Isa 14:
[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
[13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
[14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Really? A created Angel, (Lucifer), Can rise ABOVE the Creator? Uh, no.
That is a LIE. That occurred WHILE the Earth was being Created, BEFORE manKIND was created.
Because the Word of God (ie JESUS, as we know, but OT men did not know, His Name)....was Killed...and
He is FIRST in all things.....even Death.
He was KILLED while the earth was being Established.
AND MAN born thereafter...COULD, CAN, and some WERE, Resurrected, LONG BEFORE...Jesus arrived on Earth, in the flesh, that men could see, and men SAW Him crucified.

OT men knew NOT...the name Jesus. Knew NOT...the Lamb of God.
Verification of Isaiah 14:
Rev 13:
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

SEE? Mysterious Elisha, Elijah, the the Witnesses at Jesus’ ascension,
The mysterious man who spoke to Saul, the mysterious men who visited Abraham, the mysterious men in Sodom, the mysterious men Two witnesses during Gods Tribulations, the 144,000 during Gods Tribulations....Particular Faithful men, already “redeemed” and had “further” Services to accomplish “on Earth”. FOR the Lord God



No matter. Freewill of individuals to hear, verify, Believe what THEY will.

Resurrections are not “new”. They have occurred throughout History of man.
The prophecy of the “FIRST” resurrection, (Rev.) is a mass resurrection, of a LAST resurrection of ALL Saved men. Thereafter the DOOR (so to speak) IS CLOSED. None others shall be saved.
* It’s a finality, of SEPARATING the DIVIDED WITH God from the DIVIDE WITHOUT God.

The FIRST (mass) resurrection, DOES NOT prevent God from Resurrecting MEN already WITH Him, being raised up, (BeFORE the “First & Last mass resurrection) and Serving God in Particular tasks/Services unto the Lord God...OR being raised up, to be Protected FROM Gods Wrath and Tribulations.

God RAISE UP, Noah, off the Face of the Earth, WHILE Gods Wrath and Tribulations were Destroying the Earth. (Gen 7:4, 17, 18)
* Nothing new under the sun. What was shall be again. (Ecc 1:9)
God SHALL again Raise UP, off the Face of the Earth, those ALREADY SAVED, WHILE Gods Wrath and Tribulations are Destroying the Earth.
(1 Thes 4:17)

Knowledge is given and verified IN Scripture.
Mans freewill option to Believe it, Trust it, or not.
* Salvation is PROMISED a man who BELIEVES on the Day of his Death.
* Salvation is GIVEN a Believing man on the Day of his Death.

* Some men give their life crucified with Jesus...and have Received Salvation....called, “are saved”.
* Some men wait to give their physical life...and THEN Receive Salvation....called, “shall be saved”.

OSAS...is the belief, the ONE required Death of Dying IN Belief IS Satisfied, and NEVER revoked....be that Death, crucified with Jesus, or a physical death....Such men ARE Sanctified (set apart) DIVIDED “unto” God...And when the SEPARATION of the Divided commences...the DIVIDED WITH God are Separated and Redeemed (claimed, taken, received into Gods Presence, and they shall THEN SEE God as His is.)
(1 John 3:2)

Glory to God,
Taken

I'll bet Jesus was very disappointed to hear this Taken. He came and died for them, and they were already redeemed. And I personally am a bit disappointed in the Apostle John under holy spirit no less penning that as occurring in the future over 60 yrs after Jesus' death. Do you think that it is possible that you may have erred in your understanding of them sir?

 

[Robert Gwin]

The purpose of the 144,000 preaching IS to fulfill Gods Promise of Saving faithful ISRAEL.

The 144,000 are already Saved first fruits of ISRAEL.
The are sent to Preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ TO the 12 Tribes.

God Himself Established DIVISIONS...night/day, up/down, good/evil, Hebrews, Tribesmen/ Gentile, with/without.

Gods Divisions of Hebrews/Tribesmen were WITH God. The Gentiles were WITHOUT God.

It was the Hebrews/Tribesmen who were to BE THE Gentiles TEACHERS, of and about God.
The Hebrews/Tribesmen were few, were overpowered by Gentiles, acquiesced to the Gentiles Way, to KEEP their physical Lives.

A topsy, turvy, flip. And a long historical curse of sorts upon the Tribesmen....in slavery bondage, scattered, stripped of their lands, punishments, tribulations of men upon them....while God allowed it, because many rejected Trusting God.

Nothing new, Gentiles thirsted for knowledge about the Jewish God, broadly hung on the Word of God SENT to the “JEWS”, and Gentiles on the sidelines listening, believing, while the “Jews” broadly were rejecting, the idea that this JESUS preacher, without riches, without a kingdom, without an army, could possibly be THE MESSIAH, sent to SAVE the Jews. Unfathomable!

While Gentiles were Accepting and Jews were rejecting...WHAT?
Gentiles were TEACHING Jews? No.
It was NEVER Gods plan for Gentiles to TeACH the Jews.

Thus as the World as we know it, full of chaos, and greed, and corruption evolves....God is going to END those things...and must first fulfill his Promise to Save His Faithful People....ISRAEL.

Thus, the Two Witnesses, and the 144,000 to TEACH the Jews/ and all the Tribes...the Gospel of Jesus Christ.... from their OWN faithful Tribal TEACHERS.....(NOT Gentiles).

Glory to God,
Taken

With the sin of Adam things changed Taken. The earth is where humans were created to reside, but in His infinite wisdom, Jehovah chose to select from among humans 144k to be Kings and Priests under the King Jesus in the coming Kingdom of God. Why? Because humans know the trials of imperfection, whereas perfect angels do not. They are chosen after Jesus' death, as there was no redemption prior otherwise John the Baptist would have been one Mat 11:11. Rev 5:9,10; 14:1-3

 

[Davy]

The 144,000 are not part of the “FIRST, LAST Resurrection”. They were already “redeemed”. From Ancient days.

They were redeemed, Gathered, BEFORE, Jesus was revealed, SEEN on earth.

HOW was that possible, SINCE Jesus (the Word of God) had not YET died on the CROSS?
Because BEFORE man WAS CREATED ... WHAT occurred IN HEAVEN, Was THE “WORD OF GOD” was “KILLED’.
How? By Whom?
How...was TURNING the TRUTH of God into a LIE...
By Whom....a holy Angel, called Lucifer.
How...WHAT LIE, Killed Gods Truth?
Isa 14:
[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
[13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
[14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Really? A created Angel, (Lucifer), Can rise ABOVE the Creator? Uh, no.
That is a LIE. That occurred WHILE the Earth was being Created, BEFORE manKIND was created.
Because the Word of God (ie JESUS, as we know, but OT men did not know, His Name)....was Killed...and
He is FIRST in all things.....even Death.
He was KILLED while the earth was being Established.
....

This ABOVE is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE!

 

[Robert Gwin]

Revelation 20:5

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

You thought you knew the rest of the dead on earth numbered less than 144,000 -- how?

Look at the verses again Dad, the first resurrection is of the anointed Christians who have died, they came to life in that resurrection, the second death has no authority over them sir. The rest of the dead are another group, not them. They do not come to life until the end of the millennial reign of Christ. At that point they are at the point Adam was prior to his sin, but like Adam they too must face the test of satan, as he will be released for a short time, then permanently destroyed along with all those he can take with him. That is why we do not come to life until the end of that millennium. Does any of that make sense to you sir?

 

[Robert Gwin]

It is interesting thinking about when Russia and company try to invade Israel and get wiped out by God. That is a separate battle than the battle of Armageddon at the very end of the tribulation.

I heard David Jeremiah talking about how the great supper of the Lord where the birds are called (if I understood him correctly) was when Russia invaded Israel and died in the area. It has been my conception that the supper of God is at Armageddon. Most people I have heard think that the Eze invasion is long before the very end of the tribulation.

Russia has already taken action against Christians Dad, however it is not just them sir, rather a coalition of nations will attack us. Remember when Jesus returns, all nations will be destroyed, and the nations are right now uniting to battle against him Rev 16:14-16; Dan 2:44

 

[Davy]

Look at the verses again Dad, the first resurrection is of the anointed Christians who have died, they came to life in that resurrection, the second death has no authority over them sir. The rest of the dead are another group, not them. They do not come to life until the end of the millennial reign of Christ. At that point they are at the point Adam was prior to his sin, but like Adam they too must face the test of satan, as he will be released for a short time, then permanently destroyed along with all those he can take with him. That is why we do not come to life until the end of that millennium. Does any of that make sense to you sir?

You both... are confused about the Rev.20:5 "dead".

Do either of you really think you can get around what Jesus said about BOTH resurrection types happening on the day of His future coming?

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

 

[Taken]

. You could not even answer a simple question about whether the 144,000

are real people

No.

in real bodies

Yes

on a real earth

Yes.

in a real end time period

Yes.

Rev 14:
[1] And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

A Lamb ...
an animal? No.
A real person? No.
A him? Yes
The Lamb of God? Yes
In a real body? Yes
On a real earth? Yes
In a real end time period? Yes

Human men’s eyes can NOT SEE SPIRITS.
* When A spirit interacts with a Human man, the spirit takes upon himself a BODY, that APPEARS like a man, that a Human man CAN SEE.

The Lamb of God, can, has, will take upon Himself a BODY, human men can see.
The 144,000 WERE humans, Were 12,000 each of the 12 Tribes of ISRAEL, Died Virgins, Became saved souls, Became born again spirits, Were Redeemed, Shall Return to Earth, in a body’s Human men can SEE, and preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to living Human Tribes of Israel, on Mt Zion, so they (human Tribesmen) will Know, Trust, Believe, their own Tribesmen, (144,000), Accept Jesus their Christ Messiah...
AND WHEN Satan’s Armies comes to Bodily Kill the living human Tribesmen, they (the human men, tribesmen of Israel), will willingly DIE for their Belief IN Christ Jesus, AND THEY themselves, become Soul Saved, spirit quickened (born again), and their saved soul and quickened spirit rise up to heaven, while their body remains on earth dead and rotting, returning to the Earth...and while God continues His Wrath, Tribulations, Judgements UPON the Earth, and remaining humans UPON the Earth who Rejected Believing IN God and Gods Christ Messiah, (the same humans WHO have pledge allegiance and taken Satan’s Mark).

Later, their body shall be risen up in glory, and their saved soul and quickened spirit shall be reunited with their glorified body.

(Spirits have routinely taken upon themselves BODY’S that APPEAR as body’s of Human men, been seen by human men, have interacted with human men, talked with human men, eaten with human men, WITHOUT human men’s KNOWLEDGE, that they were NOT Human men, but RATHER, ANGELS).

Jesus Himself SHALL RETURN...AS the Son of man...IN the BODY, as a Human man...BECAUSE ALL Humans SHALL SEE Him.
Some Humans, WILL KNOW, (as NOW), He is Spirit, but that God PREPARED Him a BODY, FOR WHEN He APPEARS TO Human men, FOR Human men TO SEE HIM.

Every Human man HAS LIFE of his body...BLOOD
Every Natural Living Human man HAS LIFE from God...SOUL
Every Natural Living Human man HAS a Natural “spirit”.
...the natural spirit of man IS that mans TRUTH in his HEART.

Every Natural mans BODILY Life “blood”, SHALL DIE.
* God OFFERS EVERY natural human man, an opportunity to BECOME WITH God FOREVER, according to Gods Order and Way.
* Point Blanc ... A man MUST BE WILLING to LAY DOWN HIS LIFE, unto DEATH, “FOR GOD”, in “ORDER AND WAY”, to RECEIVE Gods OFFERING.
* Point being...all men SHALL BODILY DIE...
....they can bodily die, by happenstance, suddenly without notice, car crash, disease, old age, murdered, whatever. AND IF NOT in Belief, when they DIE....they shall DIE, forever separated from God. Period!
...they can bodily die, by CHOICE, crucified with Christ Jesus, Receive, salvation of their soul (called restored soul, Pss 23:3), which means, restoration, their soul back to what it was when God gave it to them...
(Very Good), as revealed in Genesis.
They can Receive Gods SEED, which means Receiving a SEED that births AN everlasting SPIRITUAL spirit. Their natural spirit, ie THEIR Hearts natural Truth, become CUT OFF, circumcised...and they given a NEW Heart, with a NEW TRUTH, and that NEW TRUTH, is Gods TRUTH.
(Called the Spirit of Truth, or in short, Receiving the Holy Spirit.)

You claim YOU ARE SAVED, but seem to not KNOW, IN ORDER and WAY, for you to have become SAVED, Required YOUR BODY to become, DEAD. And God Offered a WAY, for a man to become bodily Dead, crucified with Christ Jesus.....
but somehow even YOU do not UNDERSTAND, THAT crucifixion DEATH, (even thou you and everyone else can STILL SEE YOUR ALIVE BODY), WAS A BODILY DEATH, God offered, accepts, and WHY, you could BE GIVEN:
* Forever Forgiveness from God;
* Can SIN no more;
* the Gift of Salvation from God, of your soul.
* the Quickening of your spirit from God, of your natural spirit.
* And ASSURED, your body SHALL be risen up in a Glorified Body.

You seem to NOT KNOW, what “IN” Christ means.
It means, YOUR BODY crucified with Jesus’ body...is your BODY is accounted DEAD....and until YOUR PHYSICAL BODY DIES...YOU ARE “LIVING IN Jesus’ RISEN GLORIFIED BODY”...

Gal 2:
[20] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

John 14:
[20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

You may know That ^, believe That ^ ....yet you STILL are confused, THAT occurred....AFTER giving your body unto DEATH.
You STILL are confused BELIEF must be present, a Bodily DEATH must occur...BEFORE Salvation/Quickening is “Given”.

Your name calling and accusing is on you, not me.
Your lack of Spiritual Understanding is on you, not me.
Your lack of HOW TO Gain Spiritual Understanding is on you, not me.
I know WHAT I Understand and WHY.
I can NOT Understand FOR you.

 

[Taken]

I'll bet Jesus was very disappointed to hear this Taken. He came and died for them, and they were already redeemed. And I personally am a bit disappointed in the Apostle John under holy spirit no less penning that as occurring in the future over 60 yrs after Jesus' death. Do you think that it is possible that you may have erred in your understanding of them sir?

You think Jesus is very disappointed to hear repeated what He was sent to do and did?
I throughly doubt Jesus is disappointed for men to hear and know what He was sent to do and did.

I suspect you are in a class of your own to be disappointed in John fulfilling his Service unto the Lord God.

Do I think it possible I have erred in Trusting the Lords Understanding given me...No.

How do you ARRIVE at your Understanding of Scripture...?
...mull over Scriptures in your mind (like philosophers do), and land on what makes the most sense to you?
...search to see what other men say, or philosophers say?
...believe what a Preacher tells you?
...some other method?

How do you ARRIVE at your Understanding of Scripture...?

 

[Taken]

With the sin of Adam things changed Taken. The earth is where humans were created to reside, but in His infinite wisdom, Jehovah chose to select from among humans 144k to be Kings and Priests under the King Jesus in the coming Kingdom of God. Why? Because humans know the trials of imperfection, whereas perfect angels do not. They are chosen after Jesus' death, as there was no redemption prior otherwise John the Baptist would have been one Mat 11:11. Rev 5:9,10; 14:1-3

A bit of Spiritual Understanding...
The WORD of God IS God, it is IN God, comes forth out from God, Yet always remains IN God, and with God.

(You can apply the same to yourself. Your word is you, is in you, comes forth out from you, yet remains in you and with you. )
Men USED to trust a mans WORD. Oops, men LIE, default on their word.
Men NOW require a mans SIGNATURE on a written agreement, as PROOF of the agreement...BECAUSE oops, men LIE, default.

God Requires a mans WORD to make an agreement with God.
What WORD? A mans WORD from his ability to connive lying deceptive thoughts in his MIND, and speak forth those LIES, (to fool another) NO.
Clearly, Scripture reveals...the Carnal Mind is Against God. (Rom 8:7)
Clearly men LISTEN to conniving, deceptive, cunning men WHO speak from their Carnal Minds, to TRICK men into BELIEVING their cunning deception....and oops, AFTER men BELIEVING them...what they BELIEVED they FIND OUT was a deceiving, deceptive, harmful LIE.
(Case in point...Words of men....the whole world is in danger of DYING from a VIRUS, oooh oooh FEAR, FEAR.....Hey, Hey, Words of men...get this Lab concocted JAB...and it will SAVE YOUR LIFE....oh, oh, oh.....YEAH....uh oops, the person DIES, not of the scary VIRUS, but dies because of the JAB....aw! Oops! (Too bad. And BTW, how handy, the very men who pushed the JAB, also included a CLAUSE, they can not be held responsible for YOUR harm for YOUR Death...(tee hee...clever!)
HOW CUNNING, To talk the WHOLE world into BEING AFFAID of a VIRUS, they can NOT, see, hear, touch, smell, feel....are they NOT sick...BUT run, run, run, to be first in line to get....(CODE WORD...FREE)...JAB perpetuated by...CUNNING men!
Clever as Satan is Clever and Cunning.
When Satan Tricks a man it is called EVIL.
When men cleverly and cunningly Tricks a man it is called WICKED.
End result is the SAME, man has fallen for LIES.

The WORD of man God Requires to make an agreement with God;
IS a mans TRUE HEARTFUL WORD!
God Searches a mans HEART to see IF his Heartful Word BE TRUE or not.
AND WHAT True heartful Word is God LISTENING for, FROM A Man?
....Mans complaints? Mans Tempting God to PROVE God exists? Mans whining about his laundry list of dislikes? No, No, No.
....God is LISTENING for a mans REGRETS for having NOT Believed.
....God is Listening for a man CONFESSION of Belief IN God, IN Christ Jesus.
....God is Listening for a mans WILLINGNESS to lay down IN DEATH, his own bodily LIFE, FOR the Lord God......
...AND receive Gods Forgiveness for having NOT Believed.
...AND receive Gods Gift of Salvation of his soul.
...AND receive Gods Gift of His SEED, to birth the man a new born again spirit.
...AND receive Gods PROMISE to raise that mans BODY in Glory.
...AND receive Gods ASSUREDNESS to FOREVER be with God.
(Rom 10: 9, 10)
(Jer 17:10)

Men be FOOLED by a mans “CONFESSION” of belief...of a man publicly dipped in water... of a man publicly exalting The Lord God...and privately conniving how to UNDERMINE Gods Word with FALSE claims and attributing those claims TO GODS teaching, order and way.

ONLY the individual man and God Himself KNOW FOR SURE, what men DO or DO NOT heartfully BELIEVE. What men HAVE or HAVE NOT, laid down their life WITH Christ Jesus, and RECEIVED the Lords Gifts...
Forgiveness, salvation, Quickening, with and in the Lord God, the Lord Gods Spirit with and in the man, and that man Assured FOREVER WITH the Lord God.

IOW...only the individual man and God Himself KNOW FOR SURE who IS and who IS NOT CONVERTED.

I can and do proclaim I am Converted. Which is to say I have a FOREVER Lasting Relationship WITH the Lord God Almighty, that can NEVER be revoked. Never again can I Sin AGAINST GOD (ie not believe, not trust, not speak against, God).

Whether or not You believe me, Understand what I say, Disagree with what I say.....is irrelevant.
My relationship with the Lord God Almighty IS secure.

I made NO contract, agreement with you, to believe in you, trust you, lay down my life for you, follow you, agree with your word....or ability to sin against you or you have the ability to forgive sin.

* I am BY DEFAULT in a relationship with “other men”, who HAVE ALSO become MADE Converted by the offering, authority and Power of God, All being members OF ... Christ’s Church.
Christ’s Church...(not man made, Catholic, Protestant Churches Established under umpteen numerous names)...all irrelevant to me.

 

[dad]

Look at the verses again Dad, the first resurrection is of the anointed Christians who have died, they came to life in that resurrection, the second death has no authority over them sir. The rest of the dead are another group, not them.

In any event, how do you think you know what number they are (less than 144,000)?

They do not come to life until the end of the millennial reign of Christ. At that point they are at the point Adam was prior to his sin

What point is that exactly? You think there are people raised up who never heard the gospel? Were they saved or unsaved people, and how many?

, but like Adam they too must face the test of satan, as he will be released for a short time, then permanently destroyed along with all those he can take with him. That is why we do not come to life until the end of that millennium. Does any of that make sense to you sir?

No. Not really. Firstly it should be clear who are raised in the first resurrection. One way is to determine who is NOT raised. The Bride/church is not raised at that time after the 1000 years. We were raptured long before that. I don't think it would be the saved Jews, as they were alive when they were saved when He returned. So who exactly do you think they are, and why claim they are so few in number?

 

[dad]

No.

OK, so you do NOT think that the Jews from the tribes chosen as witnesses in the end are real people. Finally.

A Lamb ...

One of the titles of God, and very real and important. It pictures the sacrifice He made. I would note that Jesus is not a good comparison to some witnessing Jews in the endtime.

Human men’s eyes can NOT SEE SPIRITS.
* When A spirit interacts with a Human man, the spirit takes upon himself a BODY, that APPEARS like a man, that a Human man CAN SEE.

You apparently are saying the 144,000 men from the 12 tribes chosen are spirits that take on human form?

The 144,000 WERE humans, Were 12,000 each of the 12 Tribes of ISRAEL, Died Virgins,

Can you give us the verse where the 144,000 are allowed to be killed? It is easy to find the verse where the 2 witnesses are killed. Your claim needs support.

Became saved souls,

Says who? I suspect that Jesus would only choose people who were saved to start with. To claim He picked tens of thousands of people and then they got saved is strange.

Became born again spirits, Were Redeemed, Shall Return to Earth, in a body’s Human men can SEE,

The verse where they return to earth? So far it seems like you think there are 144,000 unsaved but predestined men who were chosen, then they were all killed although the bible doesn't seem to mention that. Then these ghosts or whatever sail down to earth where they are seen by folks as if they were real men?

AND WHEN Satan’s Armies comes to Bodily Kill the living human Tribesmen, they (the human men, tribesmen of Israel),

So now you think we have the devil coming to kill tribesmen in Israel, but he can't get those ghost men witnesses.

will willingly DIE for their Belief IN Christ Jesus, AND THEY themselves, become Soul Saved, spirit quickened (born again),

One problem with that invented scenario iis that the bible says most Jews will die, and the rest (remnant) will be saved and protected/restored etc. Where does it say they pull some Masada like Jim Jones act and all basically commit suicide?

and their saved soul and quickened spirit rise up to heaven, while their body remains on earth dead and rotting, returning to the Earth...and while God continues His Wrath, Tribulations, Judgements UPON the Earth

Ah there is where you went off the limb and got lost. All Israel gets saved at the end of the tribulation. It will not be them who rot but their enemies.

Later, their body shall be risen up in glory, and their saved soul and quickened spirit shall be reunited with their glorified body.

The problem is that when Israel is saved and Jesus returns to destroy all their enemies, they are not dead at all!

(Spirits have routinely taken upon themselves BODY’S that APPEAR as body’s of Human men, been seen by human men, have interacted with human men, talked with human men, eaten with human men, WITHOUT human men’s KNOWLEDGE, that they were NOT Human men, but RATHER, ANGELS).

Name any spirit in the bible who did that, where we are not told it happened? If we look at the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament, it is clear it was a spirit. When Moses and Elijah appeared on the mountain, we know that was spiritual. When angels came to Sodom as men we were told they were angels. Why would you try to apply this randomly to tens of thousands of witnesses in the end when we are not told any such thing?

You claim YOU ARE SAVED, but seem to not KNOW, IN ORDER and WAY, for you to have become SAVED, Required YOUR BODY to become, DEAD. And God Offered a WAY, for a man to become bodily Dead, crucified with Christ Jesus.....

Hey, at least I know how to write a sentence in order usually! Confused utterances aside, people get saved all the time. Real live people. That is the order. No one needs to give their body to be burned to be saved!

but somehow even YOU do not UNDERSTAND, THAT crucifixion DEATH, (even thou you and everyone else can STILL SEE YOUR ALIVE BODY), WAS A BODILY DEATH, God offered, accepts, and WHY, you could BE GIVEN:

An actual crucifixion would result in death. That has no bearing for most saved people. We got saved by accepting Jesus. We wait for salvation of the body also one day, but we are saved now.

You seem to NOT KNOW, what “IN” Christ means.
It means, YOUR BODY crucified with Jesus’ body...is your BODY is accounted DEAD....and until YOUR PHYSICAL BODY DIES...YOU ARE “LIVING IN Jesus’ RISEN GLORIFIED BODY”...


Gal 2:
[20] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Paul was alive when he said that, in case you missed that! What does that tell you about the meaning of crucified as relates to Paul dying?

You may know That ^, believe That ^ ....yet you STILL are confused, THAT occurred....AFTER giving your body unto DEATH.

Speaking of confused, those who are saved are given to life not death! (or do you need weird big letters to comprehend that?)

You STILL are confused BELIEF must be present, a Bodily DEATH must occur...BEFORE Salvation/Quickening is “Given”.

Not true. One example is how many were saved in Acts. They did not all get crucifed on crosses, or beheaded to do so. I kid you not.

Your lack of Spiritual Understanding is on you, not me.

Try not to abuse the English language and violate common sense and sound doctrine.

I know WHAT I Understand and WHY.
I can NOT Understand FOR you.

All we ask is that you post your delusions clearly here.

 

[Taken]

@dad

1 Cor 14:
[38] But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

 

[Waiting on him]

There are many things we will see when God gathers His people from afar to be in the land of Israel. I do not see those things yet. So can anyone (jack Hibbs or Ammir Tsarfati or Jan Markel are you listening?) show us clear bible verses that say that this already happened in 1948?

This happened in 70 ad.

 

[dad]

@dad

1 Cor 14:
[38] But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Losing a debate and resorting to misapplied verses is childish.

 

[dad]

This happened in 70 ad.

Nice try. Explain how God destroyed their enemies and restored them after they get saved in 70AD?

 

[Taken]

Losing a debate and resorting to misapplied verses is childish.

There was no debate.

There was you asking a slew of grossly spiritually immature questions and making a slew of accusations revealing your own ignorance and inability to have a civil conversation.
If you require kudos, you will have to do your own back-patting, my time for you has expired.