They came from Heaven ,however aborting is not a favor .God places the soul in the body at conception ,the soul was in Heaven before that time .I think He knows what souls are going where .
Where do aborted babies go?
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They came from Heaven ,however aborting is not a favor .God places the soul in the body at conception ,the soul was in Heaven before that time .I think He knows what souls are going where .
Where do aborted babies go?
OP^
We use too general of terms.
A pregnant woman has the EXPECTATION of a baby.
Review history, God Formed Adam. <—- completely formed body - “created”
Once a completely formed individual. THEN was Adam - “made” living -via Gods breath of life/soul.
A “thing” (zygote, fetus, baby) whatever one wants to call it...is not a completely formed “human”
It is not “born”, until it exits the placenta, that is in the womb.
It is not an “individual” until it is severed from the placenta.
It can not die, “until” it is born alive.
It can not become “born again”, alive forever...until it is “born alive’ And dies.
I do not believe, developing (earthlings) in the womb, are MADE alive with Gods Breath (a soul with Gods life)...IN the Womb, any more than I believe, God “started forming” Adam, and said....oh look a seed, a head, a tail looking thingy, good enough, puff, it’s “made” alive.
God designed a woman’s Fallopian tubes to cast off her egg to whit the male seed could fertilize that egg in the Fallopian tubes, and if a successful fertilization takes place...the fertilized egg would descend to the womb, and the woman would develop a placenta (a barrier between the female and the developing egg) on the wall of her womb, to engulf the developed egg, feed it, nourish it, carry away waste. The thing/developing egg, is neither a human, or an individual, or born. It’s developing, dependent on the Placenta, for it’s needs, in expectation of becoming, an alive, born, individual.
The Water fluid, within the Placenta, surrounding the developing expected human, is a protective barrier. Once the water fluid begins flowing forth, it is notice the “expected baby”, is about to become born.
And once born, the “placenta” itself becomes expelled, discarded, waste.
This is the first birth, of a babe born alive out from the water surrounding its developing form (according to the flesh of a human)...9 months.
To become “born again”...a first alive birth from water, must be accomplished, before the alive born body, can die, and become “born again” OF the Spirit (of God)....to BE WITH GOD IN His Kingdom.
John 3:
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Where do aborted “babies” go?
I would say, Back to from whence they came, dust of the earth.
Glory to God,
Taken
OP^
We use too general of terms.
A pregnant woman has the EXPECTATION of a baby.
Review history, God Formed Adam. <—- completely formed body - “created”
Once a completely formed individual. THEN was Adam - “made” living -via Gods breath of life/soul.
A “thing” (zygote, fetus, baby) whatever one wants to call it...is not a completely formed “human”
It is not “born”, until it exits the placenta, that is in the womb.
It is not an “individual” until it is severed from the placenta.
It can not die, “until” it is born alive.
It can not become “born again”, alive forever...until it is “born alive’ And dies.
I do not believe, developing (earthlings) in the womb, are MADE alive with Gods Breath (a soul with Gods life)...IN the Womb, any more than I believe, God “started forming” Adam, and said....oh look a seed, a head, a tail looking thingy, good enough, puff, it’s “made” alive.
God designed a woman’s Fallopian tubes to cast off her egg to whit the male seed could fertilize that egg in the Fallopian tubes, and if a successful fertilization takes place...the fertilized egg would descend to the womb, and the woman would develop a placenta (a barrier between the female and the developing egg) on the wall of her womb, to engulf the developed egg, feed it, nourish it, carry away waste. The thing/developing egg, is neither a human, or an individual, or born. It’s developing, dependent on the Placenta, for it’s needs, in expectation of becoming, an alive, born, individual.
The Water fluid, within the Placenta, surrounding the developing expected human, is a protective barrier. Once the water fluid begins flowing forth, it is notice the “expected baby”, is about to become born.
And once born, the “placenta” itself becomes expelled, discarded, waste.
This is the first birth, of a babe born alive out from the water surrounding its developing form (according to the flesh of a human)...9 months.
To become “born again”...a first alive birth from water, must be accomplished, before the alive born body, can die, and become “born again” OF the Spirit (of God)....to BE WITH GOD IN His Kingdom.
John 3:
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Where do aborted “babies” go?
I would say, Back to from whence they came, dust of the earth.
Glory to God,
Taken
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
That sounds like a Planned Parenthood excerpt from one of their brochures.
The definition is very cold, heartless. "It's not an individual ... a person yet folks, it's a thing!" " ... "is not a completely formed human ..."
It is a human in it's beginning stages. You can look at a fetus at 5 weeks old forming.
The fetus has the brain and spinal cord and a heartbeat, fingers, legs, etc.
That is a person, an individual. Even a tumor would be an individual growth, a thing that grows in you and can be removed. It is your choice to have it cut out. It would be recommended, because it could cause you harm.
But God creates life. A human fetus is His creation, His design already in process. The DNA is proof of that. It is His to decide if the fetus will live or be destroyed.
Planned Parenthood would have people believe that this is not a person to justify their cause. Their cause is depopulation. They have depopulated anout 15 % of humanity in the last 47 years.
Your view in convoluted. A soul is different than a spirit. They can be divided. If they can be divided then they are not the same. So the verse about being born of water and spirit is true, but the fetus is in water and God gives it not only life but can give it a spirit as well, eternal life if He so chooses. Even animals have souls, just not a spirit like humans. Although I think there are animals in heaven so I could be wrong. Heaven is spiritual so they must be as well, spiritual beings.
The soul is the mind, will, emotions, whatever non physical talents and abilities that God has already ordained it to have. The soul and spirit (of a human) are so fearfully and intricately integrated that it is difficult to conceive.
Bob Carabbio
Well-Known Member
Absolutely!! fortunately we have an advocate when we confess our SIN.
Nope - but I have a Chromatic tuner that does - When I was singing Barbershop (Bass) our Baritone DID have perfect pitch, and it was a problem - because he HAD TO sing the notes on the page in their proper pitch. If we changed the key of the song, the we had to re-write the music in the new key, or he had to memorize the piece and sing it without sheet music by ear. i.e. the "Down side" of perfect pitch.
EXCEPT that without a human nature just like yours and mine how was it POSSIBLE for Jesus to be TEMPTED IN EVERY RESPECT as we are, AND REALLY UNDERSTAND OUR HUMAN SITUATION, like the Bible say he does???? (Heb 4:15)
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From the "Everything I need to know I learned from Dr. Suess" department... 
Horton had it right when he said (several times),
"A person is a person no matter how small" (Horton Hears a Who, ©1954).
Where do babies go? Well, it depends on the condition of the heart, which depends on God Himself, who creates some for honorable use (vessels of mercy, prepared beforehand for glory) and others for dishonorable use (vessels of wrath, prepared beforehand for destruction). This is Romans 9. So the best we can answer is, one of two places. Which probably sounds kind of cold, but it is what it is.
Grace and peace.
Horton had it right when he said (several times),"A person is a person no matter how small" (Horton Hears a Who, ©1954).
Where do babies go? Well, it depends on the condition of the heart, which depends on God Himself, who creates some for honorable use (vessels of mercy, prepared beforehand for glory) and others for dishonorable use (vessels of wrath, prepared beforehand for destruction). This is Romans 9. So the best we can answer is, one of two places. Which probably sounds kind of cold, but it is what it is.
Grace and peace.
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Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
Well, I always had the impression that your name goes in the Book of Life the moment you are saved.
Not before you are saved.
Yes I realize God is all knowing.
I wouldn’t know what a Planned Parenthood brochures says. Never read one or been in one of their facilities. Thanks for sharing. I was speaking to the OP about a forming body that is caused to stop forming.
I think of an individual living person, as a body that is born alive.
And? Is this Thread about Who should decide to cease what God is forming?
I am well aware of the differences between A forming body, A soul and A spirit, and what born alive means, and does not mean.
Seems you are convoluting animals souls, with human spirits.
Born alive Animals and Born alive Humans each have souls, from the same source; Gods Breath.
Born alive animals do not have a natural spirit. Born alive Humans do have a natural spirit.
Animals is not the topic, however physically dead bodys of animals and humans return to dust of the ground. Souls of a animals and “saved” souls of human bodys go to heaven, as do reborn spirits of humans go to heaven.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Rev. 13:8 implies that the Book of Life was written before the foundation of the world.
He had a plan of redemption before He created anything too.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
I never saw a brochure, but I'm sure your post might give some ideas for their next one.
The bottom line is you are denying that a fetus is human, a person or even living. How is it growing if it not living? Life starts at conception. Cells begin to divide and produce massive amounts of cells, all according to His design. He is knitting us together in the womb and what
He is doing has value and purpose.
I know.
Well, we are talking about abortion. Common sense would dictate that this would come up.
You said,
"It is not an “individual” until it is severed from the placenta."
That is absurd. You describe the fetus as a "thing". It is an individual based on DNA alone and then of course God's plan, His intentions, gifts and talents He will give the baby.
Babies have survived after 14 weeks. Are they an idividual then?
You said,
"It can not become “born again”, alive forever...until it is “born alive’ And dies."
So is this a limitation that God cannot perform? Or something that is in your mind?
"Natural spirit"? What is that? A person's spirit has nothing to do with nature, it is non-physical.
So all souls go to heaven? What about Hades and then the Lake of Fire? I understand that His chosen sheep go to heaven ONLY. Everyone else is toast.
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Don’t twist what I said. Quote me saying I deny, and then comment as you choose.
A fetus, is a expected human in a developing state.
Learn the difference between.....Develop-ING and Develop-ED.
And learn the difference of WHEN and WHAT, God gives LIFE TO.
Do you plant a seed of a tomato, and expect tomatoes to pop out of the dirt?
Or do you EXPECT the seed, to break open, and an plant to “unseen” in the dirt BEGIN to DEVELOP? Once the plant is established IN the dirt “unseen”, It is “WATER” in the dirt that “keeps” the developing plant, developing.
Once the plant, is established, comes forth out of the dirt, it is the Gods handiwork’s that gives sustaining LIFE to the plant...
The Life of a BODY, is develop-ING in a womb. It is already sentenced to DIE, before it is Born. I do not advocate abortions. Neither do I believe it is a desire of God to advocate, encourage, support or force abortions or deny individuals the right to exercise their Freewill and make their own choices.
IOW, I do not agree that is power granted to the government to dictate, advocacy, encouragement, support, force or denial.
The government encourages, advocates, supports, a whole load of crap, that, is not to my agreement or my participation.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
I don't have to twist anything you said, it's pretty cold.
You said: "A pregnant woman has the EXPECTATION of a baby.
Review history, God Formed Adam. <—- completely formed body - “created”
Once a completely formed individual. THEN was Adam - “made” living -via Gods breath of life/soul."
>> So based on the above, your definition of human life/soul only happens at birth. I didn't twist that did I? Then you double down and with another warm definition, "thing" and "it's not an individual until it exits the womb" - in the next quote:
You said: "A “thing” (zygote, fetus, baby) whatever one wants to call it...is not a completely formed “human”
It is not “born”, until it exits the placenta, that is in the womb.
It is not an “individual” until it is severed from the placenta.
It can not die, “until” it is born alive."
>>In the following quote you continue and make the ignorant and false statement that a fetus does not have a soul:
You said: "I do not believe, developing (earthlings) in the womb, are MADE alive with Gods Breath (a soul with Gods life)...IN the Womb, any more than I believe, God “started forming” Adam, and said....oh look a seed, a head, a tail looking thingy, good enough, puff, it’s “made” alive."
A fetus is a human long before birth, and God knows and sees this human before conception. When He designs a life form, He sees it fully developed.
Oh my, comparimg humans with tomatoes. I notice it's easy for you to identify a seed of a tomato, but not a seed of a human. You are slipping, you cannot call it a seed of a tomato, it's just a thing. And only if it is ripe and separated from the branch can it be called a tomato? Okay.
So then is God pro-choice? Or did I twist that? Did He not say "thou shalt not murder?
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Did I say something that was not true?
If so, quote it.
You ask a question, then wonder if you twisted my answer, before I answered? That is weird.
Yes, God said thou shalt not murder.
BTW. Scripture reveals God is pro-individual Freedom to choose.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Yes, I did twice. You referred to a fetus as a "thing", which is not a person, "not an individual", "not human" yet and "does not have a soul".
Listen, you seem to want to portray
yourself as rational and objective with a somewhat scientific view. An advocate means in support of a cause. It doesn't mean you get out there with a sign and march in a parade.
You said, "I do not advocate abortions ..."
Okay, but your post is a clear justification of the opposite.
You said,
"Neither do I believe it is a desire of God to advocate, encourage, support or force abortions"
Okay, you should have stopped there, but then you went on:
" or deny individuals the right to exercise their Freewill and make their own choices."
Okay, God gives us a choice between good and evil. That knowledge of good and evil and the choices we make does not mean it is a "right". That is like saying sinning ia righteous. It used to be illegal to abort a child. Now it is, but is it "right" with God? A choice to commit a crime is not a right..A choice to sin (murder) is not a right, because it has a penalty. The wages of sin is death.
So maybe you need to rethink your view. Pro-Life is right. Pro-Choice is not and it comes with dire consequences.
There you go, I interpret that as God is Pro-choice.
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Was Adam or Moses or Abraham or the Old Testament prophets born again. Was David’s son only being 4 days old and David said one day he would be with him? A little more understanding is required concerning God’s divine plan don’t you think?
Not sure where you get your knowledge.
I trust the knowledge I receive in Scripture.
“THING”... before birth.
Scripture; clearly calls something a “thing”, before a birth.
Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy “ thing “ which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Not yet born, and called a thing.
“SOUL”...after the “thing” is completely form-ED
“SOUL”...blown into “nostrils” after the “thing” is manifested form-ED
Gen 2:
[7] And the LORD God form-ed man of the dust of the ground, AND breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became [/B] a living soul. [/B]
Form-ED “thing”.
AND, conjunctive thereafter the thing is FORM-ED
Gods Act, blowing His Breath INTO, the Form-ED things nostrils.
The Form-ED thing, is a Form-ED living BODILY thing AND a Form-ED living soul.
Can not say where you get your knowledge or understanding.
However, I believe a bodily thing, is FORM-ED by the hand of God, unseen to the naked eye, IN a placenta, IN water, IN the womb of a woman.
When the bodily Form-ED thing comes forth out of the womb, it is severed from its LIFE SOURCE (the placenta), and IS an Independent Form-ed body, (no longer attached to the placenta) and has manifested revealed Nostrils, to receive Gods Breath of Life...and is both A LIVING BODY and LIVING SOUL....same order, as applied to Adam, who had no mother, or mothers womb to come forth from, but was form-ED forth out of the earth, by the hand of God, and thereafter given Gods breath of life.
Do NOT speak FOR me. My view NEVER indicated a basis being “scientific”!
Do NOT speak FOR me. I clearly said “I DO NOT advocate, encourage, or support Abortions”. I clearly support individual FREEWILL.
ADMIT WHAT? What you think and say FOR ME?
Are you INSANE?
No, I did not say, God is Pro-choice....YOU spoke FOR ME.
I said, God is pro individual freedom...
Freedom is not a Choice.
Freedom is the unencumbered ability to Make a Choice.
What you are advising me is to stand aside and Accept what you think and speak FOR ME. Not going to happen.
You Disagreed an expected unborn person can be properly called a THING.
We disagree. So what?
You appeared to disagree concerning a soul.
What your position is, you didn’t say. So what?
I clearly said God favors a mans Freedom to choose.
You said the same.
I clearly said I do not advocate, encourage, or support abortion.
You acknowledge what I said, and then claimed I meant the exact Opposite.
Which is False.
Bottom line is: Your real beef, is YOU are on the band wagon of criticizing, lambasting, finger pointing, tongue lashing, judging, WOMEN who have abortions, PEOPLE who defend and support abortions....
...AND I will not jump in on your band wagon and do the same.
...AND for me not jumping in on your band wagon you twist what I do say, to make it appear, I defend and support abortions (which is a Lie), and then proceed forward with YOU criticizing, lambasting, finger pointing, tongue lashing, judging...to me, the same as you do toward People who DO defend and support abortions.
* Get off your high horse. You want to wag your tongue to and about people who have abortions and defend and support abortions....SO WHAT?
* I have said nothing whatsoever to undermine YOU EXERCISING YOUR FREEDOM to choose to do as you choose.
* I have NO OBLIGATION to JOIN your tongue wagging, finger pointing, to people or about people who have abortions, or defend and support abortions.
How about you stop twisting what I say with your words, and “return the respect” of me exercising MY Freedom to Not support abortions, and me exercising MY Freedom to NOT finger point, criticize, tongue lash, judge, people (who exercise THEIR FREEDOM, who have had or do support abortions)?
Me exercising MY Freedom OF CHOICE.....IS NOT DEPENDENT upon what others Freely choose.
Every man will bear his own burden, for his OWN choices.
I do NOT have to choose or do or agree or disagree according to YOUR FREEWILL choices.
YOU choose to criticize and judge people”s choice to have and support abortions....SO WHAT? Maybe you will get a reward from God. Maybe you will get a judgement from God, you don’t like, for your judging people.
That applies to you, not me.
Your tactics toward me are noticed, and are sinister.
OT faithful men, received the salvation of their soul, AFTER Jesus returned to Heaven.
Faithful men, (but not Converted IN Christ), shall receive their salvation of their soul, (SINCE Jesus returned to Heaven), after their body dies, and their soul goes to heaven.
Faithful men Converted “IN” Christ, receives Salvation of their soul, BEFORE their Body physically dies, and IF or WHEN their body dies, their souls goes to heaven.
Infants born bodily alive, and then die...their soul is saved and goes to heaven.
Gods Divine plan...has a specific application to every man, of every era.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Luke 1:35 uses "thing" in the KJV, ASV even YLT. But in the NKJV, it is corrected, Holy "One". The NASB says, Holy "child". Among 50 translations, 22 of them use "child", 12 use "one", 6 use "baby" and aboit 10 use "thing".
So I do agree with the correction of "thing", since it is referring to God the Son, the HOLY CHILD/ONE/BABY.
I also learned in grammar school that a noun was either a oerson, place or thing. I also refer to inanimate lifeless objects as things.
It always baffled me how Christians could be Pro-choice.
Seriously, post # 562 could be in a Planned Parenthood Brochure.
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Multiple times you changed my words to yours, and falsely implied your words were mine.
Your false accusations are disgusting and only reflect on your sinister character.
Irrelevant to me of your Bible translation comparisons.
God foretold What He would Send, Where it came from, and that the “THING” God would send it would prosper and accomplish His pleasure.
Isa 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Further announced ALL that was sent to accomplish Gods Pleasure was finished.
John 19
[28] After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
[30] When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Bravo for you. Person, Place of Thing. Is God limited to your knowledge, your understanding that what He calls a thing, must be according to your approval? Lol
Seriously you are the one who keeps bringing up Planned parenthood brochures and what “you think” they should say....Perhaps you should exercise your Freewill and pretend you have authority to supersede their Freewill....And see if your attempts succeed or FAIL as they did toward me.
Absolutely, they were. People were saved in the days before Jesus the same way that people have been since Jesus ~ by faith. Hebrews 11 is very clear that that is most certainly true.
Not true at all. Again, Hebrews 11 is very clear that everyone who has been saved has been saved the same way, by faith. The only difference between those who have been saved before Jesus and those who have been saved after Jesus are that, in the former case, they were looking forward to Jesus, whereas those in the latter case are looking back to Jesus.
No, all men (and women, and children... and babies... from Adam forward) made faithful by God (because, as Paul says in Ephesians 2:8-10, faith is the gift of God) receive God's gift of salvation in this life (before their body physically dies) at the point of their conversion to Christ
Only if, Taken, God has "taken out their heart of stone and given them a heart of flesh," as Ezekiel puts it, or "caused them to be born again to a living hope," as Peter puts it, which He can do regardless of the person's age, and He only does for His elect. Are all babies who die members of God's elect? Well, possibly, but we are not given any indication of this anywhere in the Bible, so my inclination would be to reply no.
Absolutely.
And again, a person is a person no matter how small (whether still inside his/her mother's womb or not ~ regardless of stage of development).
Grace and peace to you.
Do you understand the Difference between WHEN a person RECEIVES Salvation, and WHY a person RECEIVES Salvation?
I was speaking of WHEN...not WHY!
And Yes what I said Is true.
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