Where in the bible does it say I need to use it

[Jane_Doe22]

Few thoughts here:

Doctrinaly, the Scriptures take precedence. Now, when I say Scriptures, I mean any transmission of the doctrines & precepts that are within the Bible, through whatever medium (evangelization, radio, quotes, Christian forums, etc...).

That's expanding the definition of "scripture" a lot beyond the Bible itself.

Then, once one understands the Gospel, only then can they receive the Holy Spirit, for it is only given to believers. Thus is why Apollos needed to have a more thorough understanding of the Gospel via Aquila & Priscilla, before he could receive the Spirit. Same with Paul expounding to the Ephesians of the Baptism of Christ, only then did they receive the Spirit.
The trust must come first, and this is by one hearing the Word (), and only then can one obtain the Spirit.

The first bit of trust and faith is a gift from the Spirit- to help that person understand academically and in the heart. "Ears to hear".
Then (hopefully) a person comes to trust more & learns more academically, receive the fullness of His Spirit, etc.

 

[Brakelite]

God calls us to be witnesses to His character, which is good. Always. He is not calling us to be lawyers looking for theological loop holes in order to exclude people from heaven. The scriptures are the final authority on the character of God, but are not the only means by which that character is revealed.
KJV Psalms 19
God's Creation and Word Show His Glory
1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

 

[Brakelite]

But we are getting away from the original topic... Where in the Bible does it say I must use it? Others have already given an appropriate answer to that... Jesus was our example and He answered the devil 3 times with "it is written". And concluded that with a quote from the OT, "man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God', confirming the OT as a source of truth. Why should we then use scripture? Because if Jesus, Who was filled completely with the Spirit of His Father felt He needed to use scripture as the basis for His faith and practice, (despite the Father speaking to Him audibly in front of a crowd who also heard the voice) then I think we do also who are far from filling the shoes of Jesus.
Peter also in one of his letters testified to having witnessed Moses and Elijah speaking with Jesus, yet declared that prophecy/scripture was even more sure... Trustworthy... Than that vision.
Men are deceived if they think that without scripture they can be assured of truth. We are sanctified by truth. Gods word is truth. And we cannot trust in spirit manifestations until such manifestations are corroborated and arrested to and agreed to by scripture. Regardless of your denomination, prophet, or priest. Scripture first and foremost and everything else you believe in must be in subjection to that.
KJV Isaiah 8
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[kcnalp]

Satan hates the Bible! He attacks it at every opportunity!

Ephesians 6:17
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;

 

[quietthinker]

I guess people have different nuanced understanding of what Sola scriptura means. For me, it means two things. First, it is the final authority on doctrine. Anything presented by man that contradicts scripture, should be cast aside.
That said however, we should not limit God to the scriptures in communicating with man and making Himself known. The Bible itself tells us that God can and does speak through dreams, visions, and even nature, and if those who may never have read scripture or heard the word of God preached or taught, live and love according to their conscience, having compassion on others and in their hearts leaning towards godliness, there is all eternity remaining for them to learn theology and the whys and wherefores of how they came to be in the kingdom. Yes, scripture has the final say over all ecclesiastical councils, Popes, pastors and even televangelists. But let us not limit a God who wants all men saved and who is doing all He can to bring all men to repentance... He is not a God who is deliberately making it as difficult as possible to be saved by using fine print and meticulous forms and ceremonies that one must adhere to.
There have been literally millions throughout history who have had no access to scripture. Do we condemn them to eternal damnation because they were born in the wrong place and the wrong time? Or do we believe God is just, and exercises compassion and mercy through doing good and reaching out to lost souls, using missionaries with Bibles when available, but whatever other means He has at His disposal otherwise.

Yes, I agree here. What comes to mind re this principle is the account of Jesus sending out the 70. They were told to go out and preach the Kingdom of God. What did they tell the folks??
Jesus hadn't died or been resurrected....the Lord's supper had not been instituted, Pentecost had not occurred, Baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost was not yet commissioned.....all those positions that 'Christians' consider indispensable with the message of the Kingdom of God yet here they were instructed to spread the message of the Kingdom of God.

What am I saying here? Is the message of the Kingdom of God independent of Jesus death and resurrection and so forth, no, of course not but I'm adding this because I know that some will take issue with my above observation.
What I am saying is, that unless we understand how the message both pre and post resurrection fit, yes, including the utterances of the Prophets it is too easy to hole up in cosy theological ivory towers thinking we have something to say and miss the whole objective of God's Redemption plan for all of humanity.

 

[quietthinker]

But we are getting away from the original topic... Where in the Bible does it say I must use it? Others have already given an appropriate answer to that... Jesus was our example and He answered the devil 3 times with "it is written". And concluded that with a quote from the OT, "man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God', confirming the OT as a source of truth. Why should we then use scripture? Because if Jesus, Who was filled completely with the Spirit of His Father felt He needed to use scripture as the basis for His faith and practice, (despite the Father speaking to Him audibly in front of a crowd who also heard the voice) then I think we do also who are far from filling the shoes of Jesus.
Peter also in one of his letters testified to having witnessed Moses and Elijah speaking with Jesus, yet declared that prophecy/scripture was even more sure... Trustworthy... Than that vision.
Men are deceived if they think that without scripture they can be assured of truth. We are sanctified by truth. Gods word is truth. And we cannot trust in spirit manifestations until such manifestations are corroborated and arrested to and agreed to by scripture. Regardless of your denomination, prophet, or priest. Scripture first and foremost and everything else you believe in must be in subjection to that.
KJV Isaiah 8
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

And to further that, although a small digression from the OP, without the foundation of a correct understanding of the scriptures any manifestations or interpretations which appear, have the power to take us down the road most travelled.....and we all know where that heads to.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

ah well barney you gotta admit the apostles are not portrayed as the most aware types, at least while Jesus was there, i mean theyre basically Jesus' Straight Men? Thought the kingdom was about to manifest even as they were entering Jerusalem?

What I know is, Jesus selected these men. What is interesting is that the majority of the men he chose were not from the educated class. Why? Probably like you are speaking down about them now, the educated class back then did too. These men had human weaknesses like other men and, yet God through Jesus was able to make what the educated class deemed foolish(these apostles) to show how foolish the educated were. You should always have enough love for The True God Jehovah that you will always have faith in the way The True God Jehovah will handle things. You have faith in the one Jehovah God chose to be the Messiah, who's name is Jesus. You have faith in that kingdom that Jehovah God has made his Only Begotten Son king of, as the government that will be used to undo everything that Satan has done. You don't speak down to his arrangement of things, by speaking down about the men who are selected by God through his Son Jesus you show you have no faith therefore you don't truly love the True God Jehovah or his Only Begotten Son Jesus. So I suggest you watch your mouth. You think the True God Jehovah and his Only Begotten Son Jesus don't know what you're posting or saying about them?

 

[mjrhealth]

How does one obtain the Spirit? And since you affirm that you have it, does that mean that you have a thorough, accurate and sound comprehension of God's Word?

We believe. First time I ever head His voice was when I had just walked out of mass in a cathoilc, church, Dee why in fact still remember the exact place. And HE spoke, 'there is something wrong with all of this". Changed my life, that was before I became a christian Seems it was enough for God to deem I had enough faith. No, you dont need the bible to receive the Holy spirit, who do you think God is. IF Christ, and the Holy Spirit are not enough, than you will have nothing.

Joh_5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Why so many claim to be born again filled with the Holy Spirit than deny Him

Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

 

[kcnalp]

John 12:39-40
39 Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:
40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, Lest they should see with their eyes, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them."

Matthew 22:14
14 For many are called, but few are chosen."

Mt 7 Narrow is the way to life and FEW there be who find it.

 

[DNB]

That's expanding the definition of "scripture" a lot beyond the Bible itself.

No, it means that the medium that is used to transmit the Word, is incidental, as long as it conforms to the Scripture. I only make this rather obvious point, in order so that no one thinks that a hard-copy of the Bible is what we're referring to. Any evangelizing efforts, must have their soteriology based on what is declared in Scripture. An again, no one comes to this realization without the aid of Scripture.

The first bit of trust and faith is a gift from the Spirit- to help that person understand academically and in the heart. "Ears to hear".
Then (hopefully) a person comes to trust more & learns more academically, receive the fullness of His Spirit, etc.

What a shame, I meant 'truth', not 'trust' (typo).
Either way, you're putting the cart before the horse again. You said that the first bit of trust & faith is a gift, but there is no faith, if there is nothing offered to believe in. How can one believe in Christ's atoning sacrifice if they weren't even aware of the Abrahamic covenant, the Levitical Law, the seed of Jesse, or the crucifixion?

 

[amadeus]

That gets even more hairy when one considers the reasons for God allowing the flood. Was God destroying the human race... Or preserving it... Through Noah?
Who knows that perhaps the human race was on the verge of destroying itself perhaps a year or even less, later? Which gives us a different nuance to our day. Perhaps if we accepted more responsibility for the evils that are pervading our planet and it's impending self destruction, we would better understand why God would need to intervene... That not all men perish.

Consider also the saving of Nineveh by the preaching of Jonah and then its destruction about 150 years later as per Nahum. God has a single message but He has a whole bunch of messages if we are able to see and understand them. Will we in the end be dead or alive?

 

[DNB]

We believe. First time I ever head His voice was when I had just walked out of mass in a cathoilc, church, Dee why in fact still remember the exact place. And HE spoke, 'there is something wrong with all of this". Changed my life, that was before I became a christian Seems it was enough for God to deem I had enough faith. No, you dont need the bible to receive the Holy spirit, who do you think God is. IF Christ, and the Holy Spirit are not enough, than you will have nothing.

Joh_5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Why so many claim to be born again filled with the Holy Spirit than deny Him

Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Whether you realize or not, you were already taught in Scripture if you were attending Church for some time. That is, you were aware of the criteria for salvation, etc... So that, everything that you know profess, is a byproduct of the your previous exposure to Scripture. You're just ascribing all your thoughts these days, to the Spirit, meanwhile you were already aware of the Old & New Testament outlines.

 

[kcnalp]

Yes indeed, the Bible is the written Word of God!

2 Tim 3 All Scripture is God breathed!

 

[amadeus]

...
and the world is better right now than it ever has been, by any measure you care to name, im pretty sure
...

Really? What "world" are you talking about? This one?

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world,.." John 17:11

Why did he overcome and even leave the world even before he went to Calvary?

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." I John 2:15-17

 

[amadeus]

Yes, I agree here. What comes to mind re this principle is the account of Jesus sending out the 70. They were told to go out and preach the Kingdom of God. What did they tell the folks??
Jesus hadn't died or been resurrected....the Lord's supper had not been instituted, Pentecost had not occurred, Baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost was not yet commissioned.....all those positions that 'Christians' consider indispensable with the message of the Kingdom of God yet here they were instructed to spread the message of the Kingdom of God.

What am I saying here? Is the message of the Kingdom of God independent of Jesus death and resurrection and so forth, no, of course not but I'm adding this because I know that some will take issue with my above observation.
What I am saying is, that unless we understand how the message both pre and post resurrection fit, yes, including the utterances of the Prophets it is too easy to hole up in cosy theological ivory towers thinking we have something to say and miss the whole objective of God's Redemption plan for all of humanity.

Indeed!
They did not have the written NT... but they did have Jesus, the Word of God, and what he had spoken to their hearts. Something was definitely contained in the writings available [the OT] but how much of that was understood by even the best of students of that day. What did those fishermen receive and understand and share that most or all of the learned Rabbis did not have? 400 years with no prophets, but then came the Baptist and the Messiah. Give God the glory!

 

[amadeus]

Whether you realize or not, you were already taught in Scripture if you were attending Church for some time. That is, you were aware of the criteria for salvation, etc... So that, everything that you know profess, is a byproduct of the your previous exposure to Scripture. You're just ascribing all your thoughts these days, to the Spirit, meanwhile you were already aware of the Old & New Testament outlines.

"Already taught"? I wonder about this. My first memory of being aware of God and believing in Him was when I was 6 years old being baptized in the Catholic Church. After that I became a faithful Catholic of my mother's family, loving God alone... for no other person in that family was more than a very nominal Catholic. I did not begin to read a Bible myself until I was 32 years old when my connection with the Catholic Church was already history.

Very little of the scriptures were read during the Catholic masses [and that by the priests alone] in those days [ending for me in 1961] so most of what I learned about God came from the nuns using charts and pictures, but reading no scripture. I was hungry then but not hungry enough to reach out and do what the church discouraged and what no one in my home did... read a Bible myself.

There is no doubt in my mind that as a young Catholic boy I was walking with God in a measure without the use of a Bible. Consider also what Naaman, the Syrian leper, had when he listened to a little Hebrew slave girl.

 

[bbyrd009]

Only if it aligns with the Bible.
Byrd, what is your skepticism of the Bible based on? Are you not Christian? If you are, how do you even know?

i am not skeptical of Scripture at all, but rather those who read It only in english's interpretation of It, and those who would seek to change Paul's all writings into Canon, Approved by Committee, and those who would scribe. Bc i am convinced if Paul ever heard "kjv only" he would be laughing in their face, the Bible is chock full of imported wisdom!

And wadr most believers dont even accept the parts in plain englyshe that they dont like, right, so my skepticism is not at all about the Bible, but the professors

 

[bbyrd009]

What I know is, Jesus selected these men. What is interesting is that the majority of the men he chose were not from the educated class. Why? Probably like you are speaking down about them now, the educated class back then did too. These men had human weaknesses like other men and, yet God through Jesus was able to make what the educated class deemed foolish(these apostles) to show how foolish the educated were. You should always have enough love for The True God Jehovah that you will always have faith in the way The True God Jehovah will handle things. You have faith in the one Jehovah God chose to be the Messiah, who's name is Jesus. You have faith in that kingdom that Jehovah God has made his Only Begotten Son king of, as the government that will be used to undo everything that Satan has done. You don't speak down to his arrangement of things, by speaking down about the men who are selected by God through his Son Jesus you show you have no faith therefore you don't truly love the True God Jehovah or his Only Begotten Son Jesus. So I suggest you watch your mouth. You think the True God Jehovah and his Only Begotten Son Jesus don't know what you're posting or saying about them?

ha well Barney i wouldnt have to say a word, all i would have to do is Quote Scripture to make the point? I mean i could fill the page,
if you then, being evil
you do not know what spirit you are of
on and on. Peter denied Christ three times? I mean pls
reading the Bible with your emotions will blind you to truth imo

 

[bbyrd009]

An again, no one comes to this realization without the aid of Scripture.

imo it is important to note however that the term "Scripture" has been defined for us by other men, who "felt" they had a better idea.

Who are they, or we, to say that the "extra-Biblical"--not even Apocryphal iow--books Quoted by Jesus and Paul are not "Scripture" too?

How can one believe in Christ's atoning sacrifice if they weren't even aware of the Abrahamic covenant, the Levitical Law, the seed of Jesse, or the crucifixion?

many, many ppl who are not Christians have picked up their cross and followed Him imo, even if they would not use those words

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes indeed, the Bible is the written Word of God!

2 Tim 3 All Scripture is God breathed!

all writings are God-breathed, and that is our friendly scribes at work i guess

and the writings are "words," Rhema, not Pneuma, Word right?