Where is the New Jerusalem?

[VictoryinJesus]

To emphasize the point about how people SAY that they believe things are literal .... UNTIL the 'sermon on the mount'...when they do NOT take it literally !! ...I have seen no christian church group which has one eyed and one handed people!!
Obviously the New Jerusalem is not literal...
The people ignore the little words like in REV 21
2 "And I John saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

How anyone makes that literal I have no idea!!

Hopefully the pluck out your eye is not taken literal.

 

[Helen]

Hopefully the pluck out your eye is not taken literal.

Then why do they say the New Jerusalem , heaven and other things are literal?
They can't have it both ways...

"literally spiritual" ..yes... physically literal ...no..

 

[bbyrd009]

Not like He doesn’t already know who cries “Lord, Lord”. The whole point of all these post was that: If it is of men it comes to nothing. If it is of God you cannot overthrow it.

Acts 5:38
[38] And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:

Acts 5:39
[39] But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

hmm, an immediate diff that presents in the two scenarios here is that in the previous one those who did not know of God's thoughts--"influencers" being inferred or actually more likely directly invoked--were proclaiming Zion's shame, whereas in the second we have a completely diff scenario, and the "influencers" are in a diff position, although I guess there are some similarities ya

 

[bbyrd009]

@VictoryinJesus quoted.

< " 2 Corinthians 10:5
[5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;" >
The way to be abased, is to lift Jesus higher...
It is His obedience to His Father that saved us... We seem to be so caught up in what 'we' have to or should do. It is ALL about Him...and HE gets all the glory. Not about us.

@bbyrd009 said:-

< "Well imo that is just a restatement of "abase yourself that you may be exalted," the valid desire there being "exalted?" >

Even our 'confession' is about Him...not us, don't you think?
We confess HIM...not ourself.

Well to me that would be a profession rather than a confession, which Scripture treats the same, strangely, same root, etc. Doubly strange given all of the contrast that Scripture then goes on to illuminate between the two? There might be examples of other roots used for those terms too, but I'm on an iPad, and it might not be so good to wise up any marks that evince any confusion of the two concepts anyway lol, dunno.

My point being that the diff in the two was surely obvious to them then, yet a common root that means more like "to agree" is generally used, imo on purpose, they are conflated on purpose iow. I'm sure there are other roots employed in spots though, and the study was quite interesting as I recall, hafta get to a pc and do it again I guess lol
Strong's Greek: 3670. ὁμολογέω (homologeó) -- to speak the same, to agree

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Then why do they say the New Jerusalem , heaven and other things are literal?
They can't have it both ways...

"literally spiritual" ..yes... physically literal ...no..

Admitting you’ve believed a lie is a devastating wound to pride?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Well to me that would be a profession rather than a confession, which Scripture treats the same, strangely, same root, etc. Doubly strange given all of the contrast that Scripture then goes on to illuminate between the two? There might be examples of other roots used for those terms too, but I'm on an iPad, and it might not be so good to wise up any marks that evince any confusion of the two concepts anyway lol, dunno.

My point being that the diff in the two was surely obvious to them then, yet a common root that means more like "to agree" is generally used, imo on purpose, they are conflated on purpose iow. I'm sure there are other roots employed in spots though, and the study was quite interesting as I recall, hafta get to a pc and do it again I guess lol
Strong's Greek: 3670. ὁμολογέω (homologeó) -- to speak the same, to agree

Of one accord?

 

[Ac28]

The New Jerusalem comes down out of the future New (3rd) Heaven, Rev 21:1-2. It can't exist today, because it would be destroyed when the present (2nd) Heaven is burned up.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The New Jerusalem comes down out of the future New (3rd) Heaven, Rev 21:1-2. It can't exist today, because it would be destroyed when the present (2nd) Heaven is burned up.

You said the New Jerusalem can’t exist today...because it would be destroyed when the present (2nd) Heaven is burned up. —New Jerusalem is Spirit. How could it be burned up when God is Spirit? John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Exodus 3:2-3
[2] And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. [3] And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

Daniel 3:26-27
[26] Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither . Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, came forth of the midst of the fire. [27] And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.

Hebrews 12:28-29
[28] Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: [29] For our God is a consuming fire.

 

[Enoch111]

You said the New Jerusalem can’t exist today...because it would be destroyed when the present (2nd) Heaven is burned up. —New Jerusalem is Spirit. How could it be burned up when God is Spirit?

You are correct in that the New Jerusalem cannot be destroyed. But that is not because it is "Spirit". That is because God designed and built this city for eternity. There is no such thing as a spirit city. And we have many details in Scripture describing this heavenly city as a very real city. Just like any city on earth, yet totally different because it is indeed a heavenly city -- a cubic city with enormous dimensions. Closer to a continent.

 

[Ac28]

Are you a Pantheist? Surely you can't believe the NJ is God. Or, can you? The NJ is just as material as anything on earth or in the Heavens today. The NJ comes out of the God-created 3rd (in time) Heavens.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You are correct in that the New Jerusalem cannot be destroyed. But that is not because it is "Spirit". That is because God designed and built this city for eternity. There is no such thing as a spirit city. And we have many details in Scripture describing this heavenly city as a very real city. Just like any city on earth, yet totally different because it is indeed a heavenly city -- a cubic city with enormous dimensions. Closer to a continent.

God is Spirit. Why do you fight so hard against spirit as if spirit is lesser than made flesh and manifested?

Won’t disagree on the New Jerusalem since honestly I have no idea what ‘yet totally different’ could be. Possibly you are right there. Yes at cannot be destoryed.

 

[Enoch111]

God is Spirit. Why do you fight so hard against spirit as if spirit is lesser than made flesh and manifested?

What makes you think I fight hard against spirit? I fight hard against phony spiritualization, which is destructive to a proper understanding of the Bible and God.

The very fact the Christ took upon Himself a human body, and is now in Heaven with that same body which was resurrected and glorified, should be evidence that God does not spiritualize away everything. In fact, after His resurrection, when Christ appeared to His apostles, and they became fearful that He was a spirit, He asked them for some food to show that He was not a spirit but He had flesh and bones.

 

[bbyrd009]

Of one accord?

Well, gotta wonder why the word "agree" is not used there myself, but that might be better, ya

 

[bbyrd009]

The New Jerusalem comes down out of the future New (3rd) Heaven, Rev 21:1-2. It can't exist today, because it would be destroyed when the present (2nd) Heaven is burned up.

I wouldn't be etching that in stone tho k

 

[bbyrd009]

You said the New Jerusalem can’t exist today...because it would be destroyed when the present (2nd) Heaven is burned up. —New Jerusalem is Spirit. How could it be burned up when God is Spirit? John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Exodus 3:2-3
[2] And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. [3] And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

Daniel 3:26-27
[26] Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither . Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, came forth of the midst of the fire. [27] And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.

Hebrews 12:28-29
[28] Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: [29] For our God is a consuming fire.

^

 

[bbyrd009]

Are you a Pantheist? Surely you can't believe the NJ is God. Or, can you? The NJ is just as material as anything on earth or in the Heavens today. The NJ comes out of the God-created 3rd (in time) Heavens.

So you say, but then I would ask your def of Tetragram?
So wadr for your own sake I would stop adding to that Book bro

 

[bbyrd009]

What makes you think I fight hard against spirit? I fight hard against phony spiritualization, which is destructive to a proper understanding of the Bible and God.

The very fact the Christ took upon Himself a human body, and is now in Heaven with that same body which was resurrected and glorified, should be evidence that God does not spiritualize away everything. In fact, after His resurrection, when Christ appeared to His apostles, and they became fearful that He was a spirit, He asked them for some food to show that He was not a spirit but He had flesh and bones.

cmon p at some point you have to allow in why do you stand there looking up and does not come by observation bro, I mean if you want anyone to pay you any attn? The truth about the Tomorrow that we all seem to be obsessed with, whatever that is, will not change based upon our beliefs, it is obviously our beliefs that must change don't you think?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Are you a Pantheist? Surely you can't believe the NJ is God. Or, can you? The NJ is just as material as anything on earth or in the Heavens today. The NJ comes out of the God-created 3rd (in time) Heavens.

Revelation 21:23
[23] And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

He dwells there, is the light source, and never leaves.

It can't exist today, because it would be destroyed when the present (2nd) Heaven is burned up.

‘...it would be destoryed when the present (2nd) Heaven is burned up.’

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The people ignore the little words like in REV 21
2 "And I John saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

How anyone makes that literal I have no idea!!

Titus 2:10
[10] Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

 

[Ac28]

The sermon on the mount (SOTM) is literal but, like most everything else in the Gospels except for Christ's passion, it doesn't apply to anyone living today. It will probably govern things in the millennium. However, many people see a pre-millennium Kingdom that could last as long as 700 years. The SOTM may apply to that period. The SOTM deals with purely earthy things. Anything and everything earthly in the future pertains to Israel and those Gentiles left on the earth that are finally blessed through Israel, as in God's original blessings to Abraham. The Gentile church today is 100% Heavenly, as proven by Col 3:1-2,
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

Whether something is logical, or not, in our feeble minds, spiritualizing anything without Biblical proof that it isn't literal, approaches heresy, in my view. It definitely makes God's Word of none effect. The New Jerusalem is OBVIOUSLY literal. There is ZERO proof that it is not. To think otherwise is absurd. It's a physical city that will be attached to the physical new earth. The NJ is all Israel. Each tribe has is own gate. There is no Gentile gate. The Gentile Saints from Acts will be there only because they were grafted into Israel and were therefore part of Israel's program. The occupants of the NJ, Elite Israel, make up the Bride.