Where The Body Is The Vultures Will Gather

[Nancy]

That one deserves a double "like." Too bad I only get to use one : )

Hahha...why thank you!

 

[Hidden In Him]

We are talking about the second coming here right? We are all in agreement I think on that score. So what we are discussing is the separation of the sheep and the goats... The wheat and the tares. Note that in another payable where Jesus is describing the very same event,
KJV Matthew 13
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Here we have the same action at the same time... One taken and one remaining. We hear that the rapture is to take place first. And that those'taken' are taken to heaven. Yet Luke, quoting Jesus, said those taken will be destroyed, Jesus likening those days with the days of Noah...
KJV Luke 17
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

Which ages with the payable I mentioned above, the wheat and the tares, where Jesus instructed the angels to first gather the tares, bundle them up and destroy them. To be consistent I see the reference in the OP regarding the corpse being taken away where the Eagles are... Makes more sense... Taken away to be destroyed... Eaten by birds as in Revelation 19.18. just seems more consistent to me.

Regarding those taken, Brakelite, let me ask how you interpret the rest of Matthew's passage then. After He mentioned one being taken and the other left, He then switches immediately to discussing the thief coming in the night (Matthew 24:42-44). Who do you believe the thief is here? He is talking about Himself, yes? I'm asking because the next question becomes who or what is He "taking" in the context of this teaching?

 

[Nancy]

I do think this is the right interpretation, yes.
Do you find it interesting in the Luke passages that it almost bookends the subject? It starts with "see here, see there"...the warning of the false messiahs. And then right at the end there is again that warning...'where the corpse it, there the vultures gather'.
It's like he circled back around to it, closing off the paragraph and emphasising the importance of the warning.

Yes, good catch!

 

[Nancy]

Blessings to you, Vexatious.

Don't take this response as though I am offended, it's just that I can't in good conscience dialogue with you when your argument is packaged with so many insults. I would be encouraging you to keep doing so if I responded, and that would be sinning against both you and the God who loves you.

If you can repackage your argument in a more friendly Spirit, I would be glad to discuss it.
Hidden

I am in full agreement here. There are even some things I can agree with him on but will not encourage.

 

[brakelite]

Regarding those taken, Brakelite, let me ask how you interpret the rest of Matthew's passage then. After He mentioned one being taken and the other left, He then switches immediately to discussing the thief coming in the night (Matthew 24:42-44). Who do you believe the thief is here? He is talking about Himself, yes? I'm asking because the next question becomes who or what is He "taking" in the context of this teaching?

First of all it must be conceded that before Jesus comes, a judgement has been made a to the nature of the division between wheat and tares right?
So in the flood, who was it that were swept away?
KJV Matthew 24
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
So it is the wicked right, that is if we are going to be biblically accurate and consistent, who are taken away. So when Jesus comes, we are told that first the angels gather together (figuratively of course) the weeds and they are taken to be destroyed. Destroyed with the brightness of His coming. But in reality, everyone is taken away in some sense... The unsaved to where the Eagles are gathered to eat their flesh.... The saved to heaven.

 

[Naomi25]

The obvious answer to someone who isn't a pretribber or patient in a mental hospital...

Wow. Aren't you a happy little ray of sunshine in conversation.

 

[Hidden In Him]

First of all it must be conceded that before Jesus comes, a judgement has been made as to the nature of the division between wheat and tares right?
So in the flood, who was it that were swept away?
KJV Matthew 24
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
So it is the wicked right, that is if we are going to be biblically accurate and consistent, who are taken away. So when Jesus comes, we are told that first the angels gather together (figuratively of course) the weeds and they are taken to be destroyed. Destroyed with the brightness of His coming. But in reality, everyone is taken away in some sense... The unsaved to where the Eagles are gathered to eat their flesh.... The saved to heaven.

Ok, only it is not the wicked who are said will be taken away first in Luke's account. His point is that judgment doesn't come upon them until after the Righteous are taken away first. Look:

26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, "Where, Lord?" And he said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the vultures be gathered together."

He also references Lot's wife, to warn them not to look back lest they not make it out in time before destruction comes upon the wicked. So the righteous are consistently referred to as taken out first in this passage, yes?

 

[CoreIssue]

Wow. Aren't you a happy little ray of sunshine in conversation.

A shining example!

 

[brakelite]

Ok, only it is not the wicked who are said will be taken away first in Luke's account. His point is that judgment doesn't come upon them until after the Righteous are taken away first. Look:

26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, "Where, Lord?" And he said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the vultures be gathered together."

He also references Lot's wife, to warn them not to look back lest they not make it out in time before destruction comes upon the wicked. So the righteous are consistently referred to as taken out first in this passage, yes?

I get where you are coming from, but I look at it a little different. After everyone was taken away and destroyed by the flood, who was left behind? After Sodom was destroyed, who was left behind?

 

[CoreIssue]

I get where you are coming from, but I look at it a little different. After everyone was taken away and destroyed by the flood, who was left behind? After Sodom was destroyed, who was left behind?

In the area of destruction, no one.

God's chosen were taken elsewhere, removed from the area of destruction to safety.

For the flood the area was the land. Noah and family were taken off the land and on the water above the land.

For Sodom the area was the plains of the cities. They were taken into the mountains.

 

[Hidden In Him]

For the flood the area was the land. Noah and family were taken off the land and on the water above the land.

I think that's an even better answer than what I would have given. The analogy of the righteous being taken above the land is an especially good parallel to the rapture of the church, and reminiscent of the point Peter was making in 1 Peter 3:20.

 

[brakelite]

In the area of destruction, no one.

God's chosen were taken elsewhere, removed from the area of destruction to safety.

For the flood the area was the land. Noah and family were taken off the land and on the water above the land.

For Sodom the area was the plains of the cities. They were taken into the mountains.

Indeed. They were left behind, alive.

 

[ScottA]

the first thing that caught my eye in your post is that this verse says "body"...."Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
and this verse says corpse...."Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather"

The body is "alive" in Christ, whereas the corpse is dead in Christ.

Yes or No?

The dualism is accurate.

Both are true: there are those who follow the dead, and those who follow the living. However, both are also in the world, and this was Jesus' warning...that we not look to the world for Him, but to the kingdom, which is not a matter for the flesh, but of God and for the spirit.

 

[CoreIssue]

Indeed. They were left behind, alive.

They were not left behind in the area of destruction. They were removed.

In the rapture we will not be left behind in the area of destruction. We will be removed.

It is not in and through, it is out of.

 

[charity]

It is by comparing both accounts that we see more of the full progression of how the conversation originally went. He originally told them merely that some would say "He is here," or "He is there," to which they asked, "Where, Lord?" (i.e. "Where will they say the Christ is?"). After they asked this, Jesus apparently then gave more specifics as recorded in Matthew's account: In the wilderness or in the secret chambers. But none of it would be true, for the Son of Man would appear in the sky like lightning shining from East to West, and gather His elect unto Himself in the air. Any "christ" that manifested himself as a mere mortal man on the earth would be a false one, and would only gather unto himself vultures (i.e. those who feed on the dead) around him.

Hello @Hidden In Him,

It is so good to see you comparing Scripture with Scripture to arrive at your understanding of this verse.

'And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?"
And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
(Luke 17:37)

'For wheresoever the carcase is,
there will the eagles be gathered together.'
(Mat 24:28)

'Doth the eagle mount up at thy command, and make her nest on high?
She dwelleth and abideth on the rock, upon the crag of the rock, and the strong place.
From thence she seeketh the prey, and her eyes behold afar off.
Her young ones also suck up blood: and where the slain are, there is she.'
(Job 39:27)

* Luke 17:37 comes in a section whose subject is, 'The Coming of the King' (26-37), which will be sudden. Your conclusion does not ring true though @Hidden In Him. For surely the vultures are the false Christs, who seek to devour those who are left behind, who are the unbelieving, who are dead while they live; for only they will succumb to the strong delusion which the false Christs will devour them with.

Just my thoughts,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[CoreIssue]

Hello @Hidden In Him,

It is so good to see you comparing Scripture with Scripture to arrive at your understanding of this verse.

'And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?"
And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
(Luke 17:37)

Luke 17:37 New International Version (NIV)
37 “Where, Lord?” they asked.

He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”

'For wheresoever the carcase is,
there will the eagles be gathered together.'
(Mat 24:28)

Matthew 24:28 New International Version (NIV)
28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

'Doth the eagle mount up at thy command, and make her nest on high?
She dwelleth and abideth on the rock, upon the crag of the rock, and the strong place.
From thence she seeketh the prey, and her eyes behold afar off.
Her young ones also suck up blood: and where the slain are, there is she.'
(Job 39:27)

7 Does the eagle soar at your command
and build its nest on high?
28 It dwells on a cliff and stays there at night;
a rocky crag is its stronghold.
29 From there it looks for food;
its eyes detect it from afar.
30 Its young ones feast on blood,
and where the slain are, there it is.”

* Luke 17:37 comes in a section whose subject is, 'The Coming of the King' (26-37), which will be sudden. Your conclusion does not ring true though @Hidden In Him. For surely the vultures are the false Christs, who seek to devour those who are left behind, who are the unbelieving, who are dead while they live; for only they will succumb to the strong delusion which the false Christs will devour them with.

Just my thoughts,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[farouk]

Hello @Hidden In Him,

It is so good to see you comparing Scripture with Scripture to arrive at your understanding of this verse.

'And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?"
And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
(Luke 17:37)

'For wheresoever the carcase is,
there will the eagles be gathered together.'
(Mat 24:28)

'Doth the eagle mount up at thy command, and make her nest on high?
She dwelleth and abideth on the rock, upon the crag of the rock, and the strong place.
From thence she seeketh the prey, and her eyes behold afar off.
Her young ones also suck up blood: and where the slain are, there is she.'
(Job 39:27)

* Luke 17:37 comes in a section whose subject is, 'The Coming of the King' (26-37), which will be sudden. Your conclusion does not ring true though @Hidden In Him. For surely the vultures are the false Christs, who seek to devour those who are left behind, who are the unbelieving, who are dead while they live; for only they will succumb to the strong delusion which the false Christs will devour them with.

Just my thoughts,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

It's certainly healthy to compare Scripture with Scripture, like you say.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It is so good to see you comparing Scripture with Scripture to arrive at your understanding of this verse.

'And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?"
And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
(Luke 17:37)

'For wheresoever the carcase is,
there will the eagles be gathered together.'
(Mat 24:28)

'Doth the eagle mount up at thy command, and make her nest on high?
She dwelleth and abideth on the rock, upon the crag of the rock, and the strong place.
From thence she seeketh the prey, and her eyes behold afar off.
Her young ones also suck up blood: and where the slain are, there is she.'
(Job 39:27)

Agreed up until the following...

For surely the vultures are the false Christs, who seek to devour those who are left behind,

 

[Enoch111]

After everyone was taken away and destroyed by the flood, who was left behind?

That is to look at the Flood in reverse. The question should be -- After Noah and his family entered the ark (a type of Christ), who was left behind, to be destroyed in the Flood (Q) And as we know, the entire wicked human race at that time (not to mention all the creatures which perished).

One can add to that, after Enoch was raptured (translated) to Heaven, who was left behind (Q)

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hello @Hidden In Him,

It is so good to see you comparing Scripture with Scripture to arrive at your understanding of this verse.

'And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?"
And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
(Luke 17:37)

'For wheresoever the carcase is,
there will the eagles be gathered together.'
(Mat 24:28)

'Doth the eagle mount up at thy command, and make her nest on high?
She dwelleth and abideth on the rock, upon the crag of the rock, and the strong place.
From thence she seeketh the prey, and her eyes behold afar off.
Her young ones also suck up blood: and where the slain are, there is she.'
(Job 39:27)

* Luke 17:37 comes in a section whose subject is, 'The Coming of the King' (26-37), which will be sudden. Your conclusion does not ring true though @Hidden In Him. For surely the vultures are the false Christs, who seek to devour those who are left behind, who are the unbelieving, who are dead while they live; for only they will succumb to the strong delusion which the false Christs will devour them with.

Just my thoughts,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Charity! In case I never mention it, I enjoy reading your posts. You seem to have a pleasant spirit about you.

As to your suggestion here, I thought it over, but I would have to agree with Victory. That the vultures would be the false Christs seems to contradict the context, since Jesus warned the disciples that some would gather in the wilderness or in the secret chambers to see "Christ." And since the vultures are said to be the ones who "gather" around the body, the natural reading would be that those who "flock" to see the false Christs will be their followers, not the false Christs themselves.

But Job 39:27 is interesting and helpful, and a confirmation about how birds will gather at the battle of Armageddon to eat the slain of the Lord.