Where The Body Is The Vultures Will Gather

[Hidden In Him]

For surely the vultures are the false Christs, who seek to devour those who are left behind, who are the unbelieving, who are dead while they live; for only they will succumb to the strong delusion which the false Christs will devour them with.

I should also add that in context Jesus was warning them about false Christs deceiving people before His return. Once he appears in the heavens like lightning shining from East to West, all hope of any false Christs convincing others they are the real thing will be gone.

 

[Enoch111]

Once he appears in the heavens like lightning shining from East to West, all hope of any false Christs convincing others they are the real thing will be gone.

As a matter of fact, Christ will be coming to destroy the ultimate false Christ -- the Antichrist (along with the False Prophet).
And the beast (the Antichrist) was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.(Rev 19:20)

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all believe that there will be a final coming of Messiah to earth. Therefore the Antichrist (Gk antichristos) -- which means both *in place of* and *opposed to* -- will present himself to the world as Christ, or the Messiah, or the Mahdi.

Even the Buddhists believe that a final Bodhisattva -- the Maitreya -- will come to earth. Theosophists believe that the Maitreya will be a World Teacher and a Christ. Share International (run by Benjamin Creme) promoted the Maitreya also.

 

[Hidden In Him]

As a matter of fact, Christ will be coming to destroy the ultimate false Christ -- the Antichrist (along with the False Prophet).
And the beast (the Antichrist) was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.(Rev 19:20)

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all believe that there will be a final coming of Messiah to earth. Therefore the Antichrist (Gk antichristos) -- which means both *in place of* and *opposed to* -- will present himself to the world as Christ, or the Messiah, or the Mahdi.

Even the Buddhists believe that a final Bodhisattva -- the Maitreya -- will come to earth. Theosophists believe that the Maitreya will be a World Teacher and a Christ. Share International (run by Benjamin Creme) promoted the Maitreya also.

Yes. The Maitreya drew more attention back when New Age was really gaining ground, although I think we may still see some emerge from New Age occultist backgrounds. I also expect to see a return of full blown Gnosticism, taught by sex-driven magicians and sorcerers as was the case during NT times. But my real concern is always Islam, and their eschatology states that the Mahdi will be preceded by the return of the Muslim "Jesus," who will command people of every faith to return to the Koran as the true word of "God" (i.e. Allah). I believe this is the one Revelation speaks of as being the "false prophet," seeing as how Muslims refer to Jesus not as the "Christ" but as a prophet. But I believe he will perform miracles, signs and wonders like the false Christs will, so in many respects he will essentially be like a false "Christ."

 

[farouk]

First of all it must be conceded that before Jesus comes, a judgement has been made a to the nature of the division between wheat and tares right?
So in the flood, who was it that were swept away?
KJV Matthew 24
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
So it is the wicked right, that is if we are going to be biblically accurate and consistent, who are taken away. So when Jesus comes, we are told that first the angels gather together (figuratively of course) the weeds and they are taken to be destroyed. Destroyed with the brightness of His coming. But in reality, everyone is taken away in some sense... The unsaved to where the Eagles are gathered to eat their flesh.... The saved to heaven.

This passage seems to be to do with tribulation saints rather than the church.

 

[Vexatious]

Wow. Aren't you a happy little ray of sunshine in conversation.

You're most welcome. I never ask you to believe lies or nonsense, unlike what pretribbers always demand.

Question: What's the meaning of, "One will be taken ... [To] where?"
Christian answer: The disciples wanted to know where people would be taken.
Pretribber answer: The disciples wanted to know where false messiahs would appear.

How does the pretrib answer not deserve harsh criticism? They tell a nonsense lie so they can maintain another nonsense lie, that "taken" is a reference to the rapture. Everything pretribbers teach is nonsense, lies, and antichristian.

 

[Vexatious]

That is to look at the Flood in reverse. The question should be -- After Noah and his family entered the ark (a type of Christ), who was left behind, to be destroyed in the Flood (Q) And as we know, the entire wicked human race at that time (not to mention all the creatures which perished).

STOP LYING TO US, ENOCH!!! Jesus described the flood as taking people away, "the flood came and swept them all away." Noah and his family was persevered and remained on Earth.

 

[Naomi25]

You're most welcome. I never ask you to believe lies or nonsense, unlike what pretribbers always demand.

Question: What's the meaning of, "One will be taken ... [To] where?"
Christian answer: The disciples wanted to know where people would be taken.
Pretribber answer: The disciples wanted to know where false messiahs would appear.

How does the pretrib answer not deserve harsh criticism? They tell a nonsense lie so they can maintain another nonsense lie, that "taken" is a reference to the rapture. Everything pretribbers teach is nonsense, lies, and antichristian.

I'm not suggesting at all that we do not stand up for truth, or against lies. But do you imagine the Lord we claim to love and follow would engage in the nasty tone you seem happy to throw about?
Be firm, be strong, be convicted! But don't be a jerk.

 

[Vexatious]

I'm not suggesting at all that we do not stand up for truth, or against lies. But do you imagine the Lord we claim to love and follow would engage in the nasty tone you seem happy to throw about?
Be firm, be strong, be convicted! But don't be a jerk.

I believe pretribber lies have caused an incredible amount of damage to Christiandom, such as the loss of influence of the church in society and to the quality of life of Christians, especially in the middle-east. I've gone down the Politically Correct polite road, to no avail with them. I never call a lie a lie without showing it to be a lie. A lie is a lie and deserves to be called a lie. Jesus did no less. Every pretribber here has the opportunity to demonstrate that they're being honest, but they just lie again.

Maybe they think they're telling the truth? So what? It just means they refuse to examine what they're saying, so it's still a lie. And, it's a lie that needs to be purged from the church. If they're so innocent, why do they think their pretrib doctrine needs so much to be shouted from the housetops? What does their unarguably false hope gain anyone?

The only group of people who should have more disgust of pretribbers than me are post-tribbers. In the post-tribe view, another extreme evil of pretribbers is that pretribbers are causing Christians to not be prepared for the tribulation, to be sitting ducks for the horrors of the tribulation.

 

[Vexatious]

No where in the Bible does anyone answer Jesus' talking about false messiahs with "Where?"

Why would anyone ask where there will be false messiahs? They'd just assume Jerusalem. And, it doesn't matter where. Come on lying pretribbers, tell me why it would matter where to the disciples.

With a pretribber, do not even eat.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Why would anyone ask where there will be false messiahs?

Because He warned them some would tell them, "Behold, He is here" or "Behold, He is there." The natural reaction would be for them to ask "Where?" would it not?

 

[Vexatious]

Because He warned them some would tell them, "Behold, He is here" or "Behold, He is there." The natural reaction would be for them to ask "Where?" would it not?

The natural reaction of a pretribber or a someone who flunked out of elementary English comprehension might be to ask "where", but "Where?" is irrelevant to Jesus' comments about false Christs. Jesus didn't mean there would be two specific places a false Christ would come from, but that wherever someone says Christ is, don't believe it. Besides, Jesus already said "where", as an illustration, the wilderness and the inner rooms. Luke didn't record the full quote, but Matthew did. And, in no book does anyone respond to Jesus' comment with "Where?". It's totally dishonest, but par for a pretribber, to pair two distance verses together as one thought, such as "Where?" to something half a chapter away.

Also, "here" means the place they are. No one there would need to ask where "here" is. In any case, the disciples would assume Jerusalem, but where doesn't matter. A false Christ isn't discerned by his location.

What's the brain damage in a prettriber's head that Jesus can talk about people being taken, but no one would ask Where?

 

[CoreIssue]

The natural reaction of a pretribber or a someone who flunked out of elementary English comprehension might be to ask "where", but "Where?" is irrelevant to Jesus' comments about false Christs. Jesus didn't mean there would be two specific places a false Christ would come from, but that wherever someone says Christ is, don't believe it. Besides, Jesus already said "where", as an illustration, the wilderness and the inner rooms. Luke didn't record the full quote, but Matthew did. And, in no book does anyone respond to Jesus' comment with "Where?". It's totally dishonest, but par for a pretribber, to pair two distance verses together as one thought, such as "Where?" to something half a chapter away.

Also, "here" means the place they are. No one there would need to ask where "here" is. In any case, the disciples would assume Jerusalem, but where doesn't matter. A false Christ isn't discerned by his location.

What's the brain damage in a prettriber's head that Jesus can talk about people being taken, but no one would ask Where?

Some reading comprehension problems here by you. It isn't about where people go in rapture, it is about people being told Christ is here on the earth and them asking way where on the earth.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The natural reaction of a pretribber or a someone who flunked out of elementary English comprehension...

Oh, well. Had to stop reading there, unfortunately. I had hoped we might have convinced you to walk in a different Spirit, but it looks like it didn't take.

 

[CoreIssue]

Oh, well. Had to stop reading there, unfortunately. I had hoped we might have convinced you to walk in a different Spirit, but it looks like it didn't take.

He is full of spite and hatred for pretribbers. So most likely amil or post-millennial.

How anybody can act as he does and think they are a Christian is a real head scratcher. So we just have to put it God's hands and shake the dust off our shoes.

 

[Hidden In Him]

He is full of spite and hatred for pretribbers.

I noticed, and very fixated on that topic especially. Even after notifying him that I'm actually Post-Trib/Pre-Wrath, he still posts as if he didn't hear it, and still insults me for being a Pretribulationist.

Very badly fixated.

 

[Naomi25]

I believe pretribber lies have caused an incredible amount of damage to Christiandom, such as the loss of influence of the church in society and to the quality of life of Christians, especially in the middle-east. I've gone down the Politically Correct polite road, to no avail with them. I never call a lie a lie without showing it to be a lie. A lie is a lie and deserves to be called a lie. Jesus did no less. Every pretribber here has the opportunity to demonstrate that they're being honest, but they just lie again.

Maybe they think they're telling the truth? So what? It just means they refuse to examine what they're saying, so it's still a lie. And, it's a lie that needs to be purged from the church. If they're so innocent, why do they think their pretrib doctrine needs so much to be shouted from the housetops? What does their unarguably false hope gain anyone?

The only group of people who should have more disgust of pretribbers than me are post-tribbers. In the post-tribe view, another extreme evil of pretribbers is that pretribbers are causing Christians to not be prepared for the tribulation, to be sitting ducks for the horrors of the tribulation.

Okay...there are several things I know to be true. 1) Accusing the "Pre-tribbers" of having any real sway in the middle-east ignores the massive, nightmare situation that Islam has made for itself and Christianity over there before Dispensationalism even came on the scene.
2) A person who is lost in deception (willingly or not) will never respond to being labelled a mental patient, or a nutter, or a liar, or satanic, or whatever it is you come up with on that particular day. Are you honestly trying to call these people out of their error, as you see it, or are you trying only to belittle and point score until you can say with assurity that at least "you put 'em straight" and that your conscience will be clear when they 'roll into hell'. Because that's an appalling tact to take.
And 3), despite what we think of Dispensational End Time doctrine (and clearly you despise it), as a group of people, they are passionate about telling people about Jesus. Why? They think he's coming at any second. This motivates them. Be that right, or wrong, the gospel is still getting out there and souls are being won to Christ.

So, I don't know. You can talk about evil, and crazy people, and just be mean, but I think, despite disagreeing with them on some things, that God is using them.

 

[charity]

Hi Charity! In case I never mention it, I enjoy reading your posts. You seem to have a pleasant spirit about you.

As to your suggestion here, I thought it over, but I would have to agree with Victory. That the vultures would be the false Christs seems to contradict the context, since Jesus warned the disciples that some would gather in the wilderness or in the secret chambers to see "Christ." And since the vultures are said to be the ones who "gather" around the body, the natural reading would be that those who "flock" to see the false Christs will be their followers, not the false Christs themselves.

But Job 39:27 is interesting and helpful, and a confirmation about how birds will gather at the battle of Armageddon to eat the slain of the Lord.

'And they answered and said unto Him,
"Where, Lord?"
And He said unto them,
"Wheresoever the body is,
thither will the eagles be gathered together."
(Luke 17:37)

Hello @Hidden In Him,

Thank you for your kind remarks.

I have not considered these words in Luke 17:37 before: so I am not at all sure that my thoughts concerning them are correct, yet I thought them worth considering. I hope you will not mind if I return to this again, later, when I have had time to consider it further.

Thank you.
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[brakelite]

That is to look at the Flood in reverse. The question should be -- After Noah and his family entered the ark (a type of Christ), who was left behind, to be destroyed in the Flood (Q) And as we know, the entire wicked human race at that time (not to mention all the creatures which perished).

One can add to that, after Enoch was raptured (translated) to Heaven, who was left behind (Q)

I get that. And I see where you are coming from, which even if your perspective is slightly different, confirms my point. That the rapture does not remove the church from the scene of destruction, but on the contrary leaves them in such a position as to be witnesses to the just and righteous character of the God who protects them from the destruction. The so-called rapture takes place at the same time as the destruction of the wicked...the time of the second coming.

 

[charity]

Agreed up until the following...

'And they answered and said unto Him,
"Where, Lord?"
And He said unto them,
"Wheresoever the body is,
thither will the eagles be gathered together."
(Luke 17:37)

Hello there, @VictoryinJesus,

Following my response to @Hidden In Him (above), I have referred to a book I have on figures of speech used in Scripture: and in relation to Luke 17:37, reference is made to Matthew 24:28, and the words, 'For wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together.' as a reference to Job 39:30: 'Her young ones suck up blood: and where the slain are, there is she.' and it would seem that this saying would have been in common use - a proverbial saying.

* Luke 17:37 clearly says that it is a time of judgement (see verses 24-37),
The 'taking' and 'leaving' of Luke 17:34-37 also refer to judgement: and not to the 'Rapture' of 1 Thessalonians 4:17, which was a subsequent revelation; not to be read into the gospel record, which is perfectly clear without it. This is where I got mixed up in my earlier response.

* The use of the term, 'Son of Man', in Matthew 24:28: 'For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together', is Christ's title regarding His dominion in the earth: and His coming again was to exercise that dominion. So these words would never have been used in reference to the church of the one Body of Christ.

* Also, in relation to the words, 'wheresoever the body is,' (Luke 17:37): the church of the One Body of Christ was not the subject of Scripture before it's revelation to Paul, when in prison at Rome, for it was 'hid in God' until that moment, and is only revealed in the later epistles of Paul (Eph. Phil. Col. 1&2 Tim. and Titus), so cannot be the subject of this verse.

* Luke 17:37 comes in a section whose subject is, 'The Coming of the King' (26-37), which will be sudden. Your conclusion does not ring true though @Hidden In Him. For surely 'the vultures' are a reference to the false Christs, who seek to devour those who are left behind, the unbelieving, who are dead while they live; for only they will succumb to the strong delusion which the false Christs will devour them with.

* I still need to consider my comment in reply#35, (quoted above) in the light of these further considerations

Thank you.
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Enoch111]

The so-called rapture takes place at the same time as the destruction of the wicked...the time of the second coming.

Kindly read and study Revelation 19. The Marriage of the Lamb takes place immediately before the second coming, which means that the saints (the Church, the Bride of Christ) have already been raptured in order to become the Lamb's Wife. Therefore it is impossible for the rapture and the second coming to coincide.