Karl Peters
Well-Known Member
To ignore the fact that he intended to fulfill the old in order to establish the new is to completely ignore Jesus' message of the cross. Forgiveness rested on his words, and not on a resort to prescriptions under the Law.
Do we not know that Jesus was around in the beginning???
So do you think the Law is the old? Is not Jesus Christ even the ancient of days???
Enoch was before the Law was handed down - how do we miss that?
Abram / Abraham was before the Law - how do we miss that fact?
Moses, listen to the Lord before the Lord handed down the Law through him - how do we miss all this basic facts found in the Bible and come to the conclusion that "he intended to fulfill the old in order to establish the new"???
That was not how it was supposed to work!!! We were supposed to listen to the Lord from the beginning!!!!
When Enoch was not found, where do you think he went?
When Abram's faith was reckoned to him as righteousness, what do you think happened to Him? Did not Jesus tell a story about Abraham being asked a question, even about getting some water, from a man in a bad place? And that actually before Jesus hung on the cross!
Luke 16:24 “And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'
And where did Elijah go when pick up by the wind? Was not both Moses and Abraham seen at the mountain of transfiguration?
We were always supposed to listen to the Son of God, Jesus Christ, because He was always the Word of God, doing and saying only what the Father told Him!!
The Law then was handed down because we didn't and don't listen to Him!!
What was said at the mountain that Moses and Elijah were seen on?
Mat 17: 4,5 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three [fn]tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”
While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!”
That too was before the cross!! Did not even Moses command them in the name of God to hear - "Hear, O Israel"
So how long before we really make it about doing what is commanded by God???
Do we not even know what the foremost commandment is???
It is "Hear, O Israel!, is it not???
Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;
It was always supposed to be about hearing Him and obeying Him, and by that command you understand that the LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD, just like we read:
1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
Jesus Christ is the LORD OUR GOD, and the Holy Spirit tells you that!! And we know that His name is called "The Word of God", because His Father gave Him the very words of God!
Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
Jn 16:15 “All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.
So Jesus owns, even as a possession, the very words of God, because His Father gave all things, which would include the very words of God, to Him. And He sends His Holy Spirit with His words, the words of God, to speak to our spirit, if we care to listen!
Jn 16: 13,14 “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. “He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
And it was always supposed to be that way! But some don't believe!
Jn 6:63,64 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life
“But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.
And the prophets knew it was always supposed to be that way, for they wrote that the word of the Lord (Jesus Christ, via His Holy Spirit) came and spoke to them!!
Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying,
“Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great.”
2 Sam 7:4 But in the same night the word of the LORD came to Nathan, saying,
1 Kings 6:11 Now the word of the LORD came to Solomon saying,
1 Kings 17:8 Then the word of the LORD came to him, saying,
1 Kings 21:27 Then the word of the LORD came to Elijah the Tishbite, saying,
2 Ch11:2 But the word of the LORD came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying,
And He, the word of the Lord/ Word of God, was the One who the creation was made through!!
Ps 33:6 By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And by the breath of His mouth all their host.
So how is it that we are saying "he intended to fulfill the old in order to establish the new is to completely ignore Jesus'?
Indeed, it was the ignoring Jesus Christ and Him as the Word of God (meaning He speaks to us0 which He did not intend, that caused the Law to be handed down!! Men had to realize they are sinners (because they would not listen to the Lord) so the Law had to be given!! Men had to realize that the only way to righteousness is through listening to THE LORD OUR GOD! That was always the only way, and so it was never really done away with!
So the Law was given to show us that we needed to listen to Him, which we do not do like we should! Indeed, it was the Law by which sin actually entered in, because before the Law was handed down, we could not be held accountable for doing something wrong, because we didn't know we were doing wrong by not listening to Him, since we didn't listen to Him. We had shut off our ears so we would not hear and know that we were doing wrong. So the Law was written and we became guilty before God! We read about this, right?
Romans 5:20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
Yet by this the Lord could be shown to be greater than death!
Rom 5:21 so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Transgression were not intended, though God knew! Listening and obeying were always intended, but we say "let not God speak to us."
So the Law was given that the Lord might be glorified above all things, and that so those who believe can find eternal life in Him. Yet know, that if you believe it means you do listen to Him!! So there is really only one question we all need to have!
Gal 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
So where does the Sabbath stand in all this? It is that your rest comes from hearing the Lord by faith!