Which method of execution is accurate and true? A or B?

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Which method of execution is accurate and true? A or B?

  • A

    Votes: 3 60.0%
  • B

    Votes: 2 40.0%

  • Total voters
    5

Grailhunter

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Bearing false witness again?
Didn't you get the memo? Jesus defeated Satan on the CROSS.
And then He rose _ from the dead_ in the third day.
Satan still has many, in fact, most of the world in bondage, but the door is open to eternal life for thise who believe. Death has no sting anymore.
When Jesus literally and physically returns for JUDGMENT, He will lock Satan and his horde up in the Abyss for 1000 years and destroy all those who have taken the mark of the beast.


That word for Hell is mistranslated. It is Sheol, Hades, the underworld, deep below the surface of the earth. It is simply caverns of darkness where the unbelieving dead are in prison, awaiting their final judgment, when they will be resurrected just to be thrown into the Lake of Fire (which can correctly be called Hell). Death and Hades are cast into the Lake. That means all who were in it.
I can teach you about Hades, but you would not receive it because JW org. has distorted that concept as well as many others.
You are not teachable and so it is a futile discussion that I really don't care to continue. Go your way with what you believe. Your efforts in this forum are futile - just as they are when you spend hundreds of hours every year knocking on doors. There is no fruit in your labor because the Holy Spirit does not grow churches with false doctrines.
Your conventions are dead too, I have been to them. It is really sad.
I have been to the meetings as well, where each member of the congregation takes his turn teaching. I was shocked, thinking thjs huybdkesnt knkwnwhat he is talking about and as I look at the whole congregation nodding their heada in agreement, Injust thought OMG. A their teaching is usually tainted with something that is false (which is actually just a review of the Watchtower magazine that they regurgitate back like children reading from a script). They force feed you every week and don't even allow you to go off script. You are in essence brain washed, not allowed to think for yourseves.
Really, you would be much better off if you chucked the counterfeit Bible called the New World Ttranslation and the Watchtower Magazine and got disfellowshipped! Then go out and buy yourself a NKJ, NASB or any one of the many popular versions and just pray and read the Bible only.

I have explained this as accurately as it can be and you may already know and have noted some of this.
Not referring to the Jehovah's Witnesses.
But Hades in effect is a misnomer and a compromise that the biblical writers had to do because they were writing Christian texts in a Pagan language. Neither the Hebrew nor Greek language had a word for hell. The Jews had a good reason, they did not have a hell or a devil in their religion, still do not today.
The Apostles (and some biblical era Jews) knew there was a fiery hell, but they had no language to express it. There are several words in the New Testament that they had to find the closest and best Greek word to use.
First off, if you have a Bible that has an Old Testament that uses the word Hades, you know that it is a mistranslation, because Greek words do not appear in Hebrew texts.
The biblical writers borrowed the word hades from Greco-Roman mythology. Hades was a Greco-Roman god which reigned over an underworld region of the same name. Not a fiery hell but more like a prison. So the biblical writers used the Greek word hades but gave it a definition of a fiery torment.

Now Sheol is different....a concept barely known by the Jews....a place....not well defined....in some references only considered the grave. Christians do not give it much mind.
 

Grailhunter

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Roman means of execution.... Particularly crucifixion. You guys have not even scratched the surface on this and to be honest the details are not specific and way to gruesome for this forum. Part of the issue as some have pointed out, is that the Greek words for cross and crucifixion are not specific enough. And in the real, how crucifixions were carried out, varied. To say the least it was public, gruesome, agonizing, and humiliating.

For places that were set aside for crucifixions like Golgotha that was placed by a fiery trash pile in a valley called Gehenna. Were bodies of those executed were tossed. For these places, permanent scaffolding was sometimes erected and horizonal beams were used to fasten those to be executed. Hands tied or nailed to the beam and the tying or nailing of the feet could be to the scaffolding.

Do we know that this is what happened to Christ? No. People were tied or nailed in different positions, different ways, on different objects. (trees, doors, and walls) T shaped crosses, X shaped crosses or just a stake...pole. Torture and execution was only limited to Roman imagination. Does it matter? No, no matter what it was horrible.

The rest is a matter of rationalization and tradition. I reject anything about the T shaped cross, as in crucifixion, as having any meaning or connection to any Pagan belief. We are talking about Romans here and not only Romans crucified people. Crucifixion was a gruesome public display intended to induce terror.

The nail placement as a means of hanging a body, does not work out. It does not matter if it is through the hands or wrists. The physics of it does not workout. Hanging someone by nails on a pole would not work well but hanging someone with outstretched arms causes a lot more pressure on the wrists or hands. A good part of the time those on the cross were being tortured and their bodies were thrashing around. It does not work. Foot rests are mostly artistic imagination to explain why the body stayed on the cross. Crucifixion was agonizing...part of the issue was asphyxiation, particularly if the arms were outstretched which caused a lot more pressure. They would exhaust themselves trying to breath....try it!

Nails were used to add pain to the process and a sense of permanency and hopelessness, but also it hindered anyone's efforts to remove them from the cross. It is speculation because the Romans were not following documented procedures, and we do not have a blow by blow account of Christ's crucifixion, but odds are good, for Christ, like others that were nailed to crosses, their hands or wrists were both tied and nailed to the cross. The bodies could stay on the crosses for days.

As far as the position he was nailed to the cross, earliest tradition has Him crucified arms stretched out side by side. The early Christians that returned to Jerusalem to find the places and artifacts of Christ, were not looking for a beam. The oldest artwork found had Christ crucified on a cross.
The earliest crucifixion in an illuminated manuscript, from the Syriac Rabbula Gospels, 586 CE

cross.JPG

Because the scene or image was so horrible early religious icons were just of the cross, not with Christ nailed to it. Later crucifixes became popular to add passion to the imagery. But no one...displayed a pole. No drawings or paintings of a pole in a church. A pole was never a Christian religious icon.
 
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