Which Team Is The Devil Playing For...?

[Sabertooth]

His Judgment is real, and grievous to those who come under it, but it is always Just & Holy; never evil or malevolent. Acknowledging that is not a distortion. Our sin is the only thing that makes it scary.

The primary distortion that the Devil does is to divert men's attention away from Plan B, His Rescue plan which was born out of Love, Mercy & Sacrifice on His part.

Awesome God, Rich Mullins (1988)

 

[Hidden In Him]

You might look at 2 Samuel 24:1....it records the same event as your quoted text 1 Chronicles 21:1
In 1 Chronicles 21:1 it tells us it was Satan who inspired David to number Israel where as in 2 Samuel 24:1 it tells us it was the LORD (all in caps) who inspired David to number Israel.

Hi Quiet.

Yes, I was aware of the apparent discrepancy. The LXX accounts for this by apparently attributing the presence of Satan to God's permissive will, after He grew angry with Israel. The translation reads in 2 Samuel 24:1, "And the Lord caused his anger to burn forth again in Israel, and Satan stirred up David against them, saying, 'Go, number Israel and Judah.'"

God is consistent. We need to understand this otherwise we will hold a conflicting view of God to justify our theology.
Either our theology is wrong or God is a slippery operator......it can't be both!

I agree with the last statement, certainly. So tell me, what is your interpretation of how 1 Chronicles 21:1 and 2 Samuel 24:1 are reconciled?

God bless,
- H

 

[Taken]

Which Team Is The Devil Playing For...?
OP ^

The Anti-Christ founders of the World Economic Forum. (WEF)

Some Nation Members of the WEF.

Some Nation Members of the United Nations. (UN)

Some Board Members of the World Health Organization (WHO)

Some Members of the World Monetary Fund (WMF), World Bank.

Some Members of The US with a communist Marxist Agenda;
Acting under the Front Names of;
Liberal Democrat and Republican.

Many members of The US;
Executive Branch,
Judicial Branch,
Legislative Branch.

Many Members of The US Several Sovereign States Representatives.

Many US Citizens and Illegal Foreigners presently within the Boundaries of the US.

Many Representative and Citizens of Foreign Nations.

 

[Tone]

"Which Team Is The Devil Playing For...?"

From his perspective...his.

From our perspective...his...and/or God's.

From God's perspective...a mystery...?

 

[Sabertooth]

@Taken, some have stated that Satan is Heaven's "Prosecutor" (an officer in God's "court") rather than the "Villain" of Creation. This thread is about that debate.

 

[Sabertooth]

From God's perspective...a mystery...?

Not given

1. his temptation of Jesus in the desert,
2. that [Hell] was created specifically for him and
3. The Parable of the Wheat & Tares, "An enemy has done this."

 

[Tone]

Not given

1. his temptation of Jesus in the desert,
2. that [Hell] was created specifically for him and
3. The Parable of the Wheat & Tares, "An enemy has done this."

I meant, a mystery to us since nothing is hidden from Him.

Yeah, we have the Bible to go on, but how do we get a universal interpretation on it?

 

[Tone]

@amadeus wrote,

What do I believe? I believe that every man born of woman throughout his course [his lifetime] works either "for" God or "with" God to accomplish men's part in God's overall plan. Those working "with" God should be the ones paying close attention to God's perfect will for a situation. This should include anyone who really has been "born again" (born from above). [I purposely used the word, should, because of what I see in that respect.]

The ones not working "with" Him are working "for" God anyway, many times [or always?] accomplishing the curses which people have brought upon themselves according to God's Word. These would be working in or as the Left Hand of God or for Satan:

"And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah." II Sam 24:1

"And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel." I Chron 21:1

Hmmm, this puts a new light on this verse;

Matthew 6:3
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

 

[Taken]

@Taken, some have stated that Satan is Heaven's "Prosecutor" (an officer in God's "court") rather than the "Villain" of Creation. This thread is about that debate.

Okay. I was responding to the OP in general, not the Debate under the OP title.

To your point of debate:

If It is Gods Court...
The roll of "prosecutor"...would be A Pro-God Advocate.

A Prosecutor, is always in the positional Side OF the Court.

 

[Tone]

Not given

1. his temptation of Jesus in the desert,
2. that [Hell] was created specifically for him and
3. The Parable of the Wheat & Tares, "An enemy has done this."

Says something about Him being tempted on all points like us, because of His humanhood.

Says that hell will be thrown in the lake of fire along with death to be no more.

A parable has much metaphor.

 

[Sabertooth]

A parable has much metaphor.

Metaphor doesn't turn "an enemy" into something else.

 

[Tone]

Metaphor doesn't turn "an enemy" into something else.

Aren't you your enemy...?

The world, the flesh, and the devil...

 

[Sabertooth]

Aren't you your enemy...?

The elements might change like "not really wheat" or "not really tares," but the players do not or the whole parable falls apart. The enemy (whoever it is) is personal and deliberate.

 

[Tone]

The elements might change like "not really wheat" or "not really tares," but the players do not or the whole parable falls apart. The enemy (whoever it is) is personal and deliberate.

Maybe something like the collective flesh that is as grass...into one being like Azazel... remaining to be seen...

 

[amadeus]

Hmmm, this puts a new light on this verse;

Matthew 6:3
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you," II Cor 6:14-17

 

[lforrest]

It's a mystery, angelic beings and how much autonomy they have. For example humans can do things that oppose their own goals, but baalzabulb can't drive out baalzabulb.

I'm thinking it is because angelic beings are not able to betray their own nature, because they are personifications of that nature.

It's pretty clear Satan could do a number of things differently in the end times to prevent prophecy from being fulfilled. But all that is written must come to pass. And he will do all that is written because his pride demands it.

 

[quietthinker]

Hi Quiet.

Yes, I was aware of the apparent discrepancy. The LXX accounts for this by apparently attributing the presence of Satan to God's permissive will, after He grew angry with Israel. The translation reads in 2 Samuel 24:1, "And the Lord caused his anger to burn forth again in Israel, and Satan stirred up David against them, saying, 'Go, number Israel and Judah.'"


I agree with the last statement, certainly. So tell me, what is your interpretation of how 1 Chronicles 21:1 and 2 Samuel 24:1 are reconciled?

God bless,
- H

this is my angle...The Jews erroneously attributed the source of both good and bad to God. It wasn't until Jesus that we learn't who this operator with malevolent designs bent on destruction was and that God had no part in it.

It appears the above idea was interchangeable in the Jewish mind because of this view.

1 John states that God is light and in him is no darkness at all. There are many other scriptures that confirm this.

 

[Sabertooth]

In case we did not have enough thread-related music already,...

The Devil Is Bad, The W's (1998)

 

[Sabertooth]

this is my angle...The Jews erroneously attributed the source of both good and bad to God.

That was not my takeaway from your previous posts.

 

[DNB]

(A thread to continue this debate from another thread.)

The losing team!