Bob Carabbio
Well-Known Member
Chuckle!!!Really? Only Jesus could restore Adam's "race". The only way to do that is to physically die. Such nonsense about keeping Adam's race pure. How do you keep corruptible flesh perfectly corruptible?
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Chuckle!!!Really? Only Jesus could restore Adam's "race". The only way to do that is to physically die. Such nonsense about keeping Adam's race pure. How do you keep corruptible flesh perfectly corruptible?
Chuckle!!! YOUR "Theologians" are better than MY "Theologians!!! Bla, Bla, Bla.Of course it's your knee jerk Bob, you live in the Baptist heart of Texas and Dallas Theological and their fairy tales, nothing expected otherwise
DallasTheological loves the late Calvary Chapel Chuck Missler, and his tall tales of the Nephilim
A salute Adulterer C.I. Scofield, and his prodigy in Lewis S. Chafer who started Dallas Theological
Do sinful groups produce great people today by the world’s standards? Yes of course they do
No verse in Scripture claims Eve gave birth to Cain after the Garden, any more than you claim what I see as wrong. You see what you want to see.
Can you prove when Cain and Abel were born? No you cannot. Seth was born when Adam was 130. You have no proof any more than I do that it could have been over 100 years between births. Normally people do not wait until they are 130 to have offspring. You claim Eve and Adam had Cain and Abel on the 6th day in Genesis 1:26-28, no? They also sinned the next day, no? Can you explain how Seth was born 130 years later, instead of the day after Cain killed Abel? How old were Cain and Abel in chapter 4? Was Seth born the next day?
"And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord."
This verse does not say anything about after leaving the Garden. But notice this:
"And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord."
This story had at least 128 years "to come to pass". Let's assume procreation worked even better than it does today, well in fact it did:
"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children"
You really think Adam waited until after he disobeyed God to procreate with Eve? Once again:
"And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."
Nothing in there about being celibate. Chapter 4 could have easily started out after chapter 2 chronologically. How would Eve know a difference in child bearing if there was no pre-disobedience child birth?
The process of time in Genesis 4:3 very well could have included the events in Genesis 3.
Genesis 3 was literally only about Adam's disobedience and nothing else. It was not a necessary chronological event preceding Genesis 4. Genesis 4:25:
"And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew."
Adam was given Seth 130 years from some starting point. There is really no indication that Adam left the Garden at 129 years. I think Adam left the Garden 100 years before Seth was born.
I think Adam was placed in the Garden 130 years before Seth was born. There was a 30 year span where chapters 2 and 3 played out. I also think chapter 4 happened in a way that those words "in the process of time" included part of those 30 years. God indicated that Eve already experienced birth and that it would be a lot different the next time. So in 100 years how much sorrow did Adam and Eve have before Seth was born? If you claim they were in the Garden for over 100 years, exactly what happened during that time? If you claim they left the Garden 130 years before Seth, what was the process of time needed for between Cain and Abel growing up with no one around? Are you saying Cain was a tiller of the ground as soon as he could walk? Is being a tiller of the ground prohibited in the Garden of Eden? Adam and Eve were now in dead corruptible flesh. That was prohibited in the Garden lest they continue to eat of the tree of life and live forever in sin and dead corruptible flesh. Did not God kill an animal in the Garden to cloth Adam and Eve?
"Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them."
Nor does it ever say that Cain and Abel made sacrifices for sin.
For being such a student of God's Word, why do you get this one so wrong?
Every time son of God is mentioned in God's Word it is about those created on day 6.
Being a son of God is being created in God's image. Angels were created as lights. God is light. That is not the same thing as God's image. That is the same thing as God "being something". Body, soul, and spirit is a trinity. A son of God in the image of God is a trinity. The Word was God and the Word was with God. Same with our body and soul. The Holy Spirit is the same as our spirit. How can an angel be a son of God, and not humans created in God's image, all three persons of God? An angel is just a light in the firmament. Humans once were lights on earth, and will be again. Humans will shine as the angels, because that is how they were created, not that they become like angels. The spirit or robe of white will light up the earth like the sun. Jesus proved that on the mount of Transfiguration. Jesus was not showing us He was an angel. Jesus was showing us who humans are as sons of God.
Your interpretation is giving away your birthright to the angels. There were sons of God on earth before, during, and after Adam was in the Garden. They were created on the 6th day in God's image. They were in permanent incorruptible physical bodies. Obviously quite different than Adam's dead corruptible flesh he was given when Adam physically died, after disobedience to God. Adam was given dead flesh, and the spirit of light removed. Adam and Eve instantly knew they had changed from Life unto death. Adam and Eve were sons of God, and they died and stopped being sons of God on earth. Also there is nothing that states all sons of God listened to Satan. Not all will listen to Satan at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Jesus. Not all the angels listened to Satan and rebelled against God. Not all the sons of God, especially the first generation would have rebelled against God.
The reason why the sons of God would want to procreate with Adam's flesh, sounds like a scheme thought up by Satan.
Satan convinced Eve that the fruit looked like something desirable. Seems the sons of God thought the same way about Adam's dead flesh and blood. Sounds like Satan's deception at work to me.
What? You don't plan on going to Paradise in heaven?So now you have God creating loads of people on day six? YOu also have them in Job 1 and 2 going up to heaven to present themselves before God! WOW! You should get a gig writing comic book sci-fi, you have a very active imagination.
No verse in Scripture claims Eve gave birth to Cain after the Garden, any more than you claim what I see as wrong. You see what you want to see.
Can you prove when Cain and Abel were born? No you cannot. Seth was born when Adam was 130. You have no proof any more than I do that it could have been over 100 years between births. Normally people do not wait until they are 130 to have offspring. You claim Eve and Adam had Cain and Abel on the 6th day in Genesis 1:26-28, no? They also sinned the next day, no? Can you explain how Seth was born 130 years later, instead of the day after Cain killed Abel? How old were Cain and Abel in chapter 4? Was Seth born the next day?
"And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord."
This verse does not say anything about after leaving the Garden. But notice this:
"And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord."
This story had at least 128 years "to come to pass". Let's assume procreation worked even better than it does today, well in fact it did:
"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children"
You really think Adam waited until after he disobeyed God to procreate with Eve? Once again:
"And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."
Nothing in there about being celibate. Chapter 4 could have easily started out after chapter 2 chronologically. How would Eve know a difference in child bearing if there was no pre-disobedience child birth?
The process of time in Genesis 4:3 very well could have included the events in Genesis 3.
Genesis 3 was literally only about Adam's disobedience and nothing else. It was not a necessary chronological event preceding Genesis 4. Genesis 4:25:
"And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew."
Adam was given Seth 130 years from some starting point. There is really no indication that Adam left the Garden at 129 years. I think Adam left the Garden 100 years before Seth was born.
I think Adam was placed in the Garden 130 years before Seth was born. There was a 30 year span where chapters 2 and 3 played out. I also think chapter 4 happened in a way that those words "in the process of time" included part of those 30 years. God indicated that Eve already experienced birth and that it would be a lot different the next time. So in 100 years how much sorrow did Adam and Eve have before Seth was born? If you claim they were in the Garden for over 100 years, exactly what happened during that time? If you claim they left the Garden 130 years before Seth, what was the process of time needed for between Cain and Abel growing up with no one around? Are you saying Cain was a tiller of the ground as soon as he could walk? Is being a tiller of the ground prohibited in the Garden of Eden? Adam and Eve were now in dead corruptible flesh. That was prohibited in the Garden lest they continue to eat of the tree of life and live forever in sin and dead corruptible flesh. Did not God kill an animal in the Garden to cloth Adam and Eve?
"Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them."
Nor does it ever say that Cain and Abel made sacrifices for sin.
The point is how could God multiply the pain, if she never had the experience the first time.And you don’t see what you want to see?
It’s pretty clear that we won’t agree here but you are claiming that I claimed events that I never did.
No I never claimed that Eve and Adam had Cain and Able on the sixth day. The bible is clear only Adam and Eve were in the garden of Eden and the bible shows only that they were banished.
After Eve was banish she would have pain when she gave birth thus she gave birth outside the garden.
The point is how could God multiply the pain, if she never had the experience the first time.
Since all you claim is birth outside the Garden, which is a given since Eve had many children.
Most claim every thing in the first 4 chapters of Genesis all happened in about 4 days. You gave no reason that you thought otherwise.
Sounds like a new Avengers sequelBut these are the gibborim! These were superhumans. YOU still have not justified sons of God here redefined ad human s and not angles when all other instances are angels.
"On Earth"What we know of them from the Bible is what is said in Genesis and Job and that they presented themselves before God, I assume this is heaven…where else could it be? There is no indication in those accounts that God had any issues with them. Since in Job, Satan comes along with the sons of God and God and Satan have a civil conversation about testing Job, it appears that this probably happened before the fall of the angels. So designating anybody as fallen angels would be incorrect. (No details or time frame appears in the Bible for the fall of angels.)
Then it is said that the sons of God….married any of them they chose. So that implies that these were relationships…marriages…that where not one night stands. So that would possibly indicate that they stayed with these women.
So at this point the Bible does not indicate that the sons of God were bad or what they did with the women was bad. Everything seems to suggest that they are in good standing with God. And at no time does the Bible link the term fallen angels to the sons of God. In fact it does not designate them as angels or that their offspring were giants....only that they were beings that present themselves before God and had the ability to impregnate women.
3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”
Now what does this verse mean? Can it relate to the characters of the Bible that lived hundreds of years? No. Can it relate to the offspring of the women that were married to the sons of God, that their years would be limited to 120 years? It is possible but the Bible does not go into the details.
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them.
So the Nephilim…the giants were there on the earth in those days. Not because the wives of the sons of God had children…Before and after…much after?
The Bible does not say that the offspring of the sons of God were giants. It says the giants were there in those days. But the Bible does not say where the giants came from. Nor does it say what their connection is between them and the offspring of the sons of God. We do know that the race of giants continued through the Old Testament period under different names… Rephaim and Anakim. And the sons of God did not sire them either. These giants made the Israelite spies feel like grasshoppers before them…definitely giants. Furthermore it is clear that the giants survived the flood, because the Bible confirms their existence in the conquests of Moses.
What were the offspring of the sons of God like? The Bibles says, when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown. But the Bible does not tell us what heroic acts they did? What made them famous? Or for how long did the sons of God continue to take women as wives? And again the Bible does not indicate that God condemned these relationships or their offspring.
So then the Bible goes on to say…5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6. The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.
Now this indicates....5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. This is not aimed at the sons of God or their offspring...because as stated...it is the human race and the human heart. Does it include the half breeds? The Bible does not say.
Wipe them from the face of the earth? Not entirely. So God changes His mind because of Noah…and there are a few accounts of God changing His mind and it drive some nuts. But either way the Bible does not get into the details of how or if this relates to sons of God or them taking women as wives, or their offspring….or…. that it is just the next set of scriptures. The Bible does not say that God took action against the sons of God….they kept presenting themselves before the Lord in heaven? God never said anything derogatory to them when they were in his presence. The only statement about the offspring is positive….heroes and mighty men of renown.
So the Bible account of this event, the sons of God taking women as wives, and producing offspring, although profound, raises more questions than it answers.
The event is obviously important and probably had ramifications, so people have debated this for centuries adding a lot of speculation. And I think they speculated in the wrong direction.
Now for the suggestion that the sons of God were just men….most of this is because people try to look at the Hebrew, but do not understand the Hebrew.
In any language, ancient or modern, the words can be in a different order than in the English. The scripture say, “of God the sons? ....that is not believers of God … that is of God, not the word “of” words mean things! LOL And the correct translation is sons of God…as seen in the NASB…one of the most accurate translations there is. Besides this is a significant event....human men impregnating human women is not a significant event in the Old Testament.
But these are the gibborim! These were superhumans. YOU still have not justified sons of God here redefined ad human s and not angles when all other instances are angels.
What? You don't plan on going to Paradise in heaven?
No not all other references show them as humans
None of the other references show them as angels and not humans! Why would God confuse the issue and call the sons of God a righteous line that is no longer righteous? Every time you have to start adding clauses and addendums or what have you to explain a simple verse, REd flags should go up all over the place.
None of the other references show them as angels and not humans! Why would God confuse the issue and call the sons of God a righteous line that is no longer righteous? Every time you have to start adding clauses and addendums or what have you to explain a simple verse, REd flags should go up all over the place.
They were all sons of God until they rebelled
Because the bible shows them as both.
Says you, but you have yet to make real proof for your hypothesis.