WHO ARE THE TWO WITNESSES IN REVELATION ?

[Earburner]

Okay, well, I would say "between"... Jesus is the mediatory between the Father and man. He is our mediator, mediating to the Father on our behalf. But okay.

Most of the rest of what you have said since my last post is very... "colorful." :


As I said above, Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father, as Paul says:

"...He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places..." Ephesians 1:20

"If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God." Colossians 3:1

What is meant here is not woodenly Jesus's body position, but that His work of redemption is completed... finished, as He said in His dying breath.

And the same sort of thing is true in the case of Stephen in Acts 7 ~ that He is standing is meant to indicate not woodenly His body position but His approval of Stephen's actions and His welcoming Stephen into His presence in his passing/death from this life.


Yes, that's unfortunate. I think you'll find out otherwise, hopefully sooner rather than later. As I said, Jesus clearly and irrefutably refers to the Holy Spirit as an entity wholly distinct from the Father and the Son in John 14.

And beyond that, God is everywhere at once, Earburner, all three Persons. :) As Christians, the Father is with us, Christ is with us, and the Holy Spirit is with us. Just to say someone is with us does not merely indicate proximity in person, but actually much more than that.

Grace and peace to you.

I perceive that you DO see man's need for a Mediator, but you DON'T see God the Father's reasoning of why He Himself needs a Mediator.
The act of mediation between to warring parties, is a two way street.
Do you have any thoughts of why the Father needed His Eternal Son as the Mediator, and not choose anyone else?

You still have not shown specifically, by what verse(s) in John 14, and/or elsewhere, that convinces you to believe in the concept of a "trinity" in the Godhead, as being three distinct persons.

It appears to me, that you are confirmed in your stance, having no clarity of scripture to support your belief. As a result, it is easy for me to conclude that the only reason why you do believe there is a "trinity", is because you are allowing church-ianity to say that it is so, FOR you.

BTW, for you to say that I am "a colorful person", but apparently nothing more, I accept it as being the many facets, from the Light of His Truth, that I am sharing here:)

 

[PinSeeker]

I perceive that you DO see man's need for a Mediator, but you DON'T see God the Father's reasoning of why He Himself needs a Mediator.

No, I think you're just reasoning it out and stating it clumsily and wrongly. I would agree with the first half of your statement here. But to the second half, I would restate that, saying that God had to provide a Mediator for us to satisfy His justice and thus reconcile us to Him. You know, in the sense as, well, John 3:16, that "...God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life." This is the very purpose for which Jesus, the "one Mediator between God and men" (1 Timothy 2:5), was "sent" by the Father (John 14:24).

Maybe ~ just maybe ~ perhaps... (a Dr. Suess "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" reference... :)) ~ that's what you're rather clumsily really saying. If not, then maybe that's how you will say it from now on. :)

The act of mediation between to warring parties, is a two way street.

Sure. But ~ and I'm not sure you're really saying this, but I'll speak to it anyway ~ the Father is not "at war" with us/anybody. His "war" ~ if you want to call it that ~ is against all evil and sin, and for His own glory. Psalm 2 echoes through my mind here...

"Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD and against his Anointed, saying, 'Let us burst their bonds apart and cast away their cords from us.' He who sits in the heavens laughts; the Lord holds them in derision... Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, and you perish in the way, for His wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in Him." (Psalm 2)​

And, as Paul says:

"What if God, desiring to show His wrath and to make known His power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory ~ even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?" (Romans 9:22-24)​

And, of course, Paul later also says:

"God our Savior... desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:4)​

Do you have any thoughts of why the Father needed His Eternal Son as the Mediator, and not choose anyone else?

Well, first of all, the Father doesn't "need" anything. But providing His Son in the form of man ~ while even in the form of God ~ was necessary to achieve the redemption of man from his state of enmity with God.

You still have not shown specifically, by what verse(s) in John 14, and/or elsewhere, that convinces you to believe in the concept of a "trinity" in the Godhead, as being three distinct persons.

Well, I have, and I will again here. I could point again to the chapter as a whole, but if you have to have one verse highlighted specifically, it would be verse 26, where Jesus says, "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you." Jesus, in this one sentence, clearly and irrefutably refers to the Father, Himself, and the Holy Spirit as three distinct beings doing three different ~ but complementary, of course, toward the same end and one in purpose ~ things. In order:

• Being one ~ but not the "first" ~ the Holy Spirit: "...the Helper, the Holy Spirit, Whom..."
• Being two ~ but not the "second" ~ the Father: "...Whom the Father will send..."
• Being three ~ but not the "third" ~ Christ Jesus: "...will send in My name..."
• Being one again, the Holy Spirit: "...He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance..."
• Being three again, Christ Jesus: "...will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."

It's actually quite incredible that it would be necessary to parse this out for a person of any modicum of intelligence at all. But, there it is.

It appears to me, that you are confirmed in your stance...

That I am... :) The Holy Spirit, Who superintended the writing of Scripture so that it is God-breathed and thus the very Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16-17), has convicted me (1 Thessalonians 1:5; Hebrews 11:1) of such. :)

...having no clarity of scripture to support your belief...

LOL! See above... My goodness.

As a result, it is easy for me to...

Let me finish for you: "...conclude that the only reason why you do believe there is a "trinity" is because Jesus clearly states it in John 14:26."

BTW, for you to say that I am "a colorful person", but apparently nothing more, I accept it as being the many facets,...

Ohhhh... :)... I'm sure you have many facets about you (and possibly many personalities... :)), but that's... not what I mean. :) But I'm okay with you thinking that. :) You're just a very interesting person, Earburner ~ which is not a bad thing ~ and you have some rather interesting takes on things ~ which also is not necessarily a bad thing. And... not to toot my own horn, but I think I'm giving you ~ in a human sense, of course, on a person to person level ~ a healthy amount of grace in putting it that way. :)

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

1. John the disciple, whom Jesus loved. For he must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

2. Elijah. It is written in the prophets, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: and he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Not to restart this whole conversation, but as I said early in the thread:

Today we call the two witnesses the Old Testament and the New Testament, respectively. One or both may be on any one (or possibly all) of... your bookshelf, coffee table, and/or bedside table. :)

To be more clear, in agreement with Revelation as a whole, we find here in Revelation 11 a symbolic vision of Christian witness. rather than two individuals, past, present or future. The two witnesses are two lampstands (Revelation 11:4). The pattern here is that of Zechariah 4:1-14 (two olive trees on the right and left of the lampstand), and Moses and Elijah (two men who represented the Law and the Prophets and thus the whole of the Old Testament, last seen at Jesus's transfiguration), and the lampstand churches of Revelation 1:20 (there are seven lampstand churches which together make up the second lampstand). So the two witnesses are as follows:

• The "first witness" of Revelation 11 is Israel as it was before the coming of Christ ~ Old Israel, the Israelites, the Old Testament, ethnic Jews only
• The "second witness" of Revelation 11 is Israel as it exists now since the coming of coming, crucifixion, and resurrection of Christ and the coming of the Holy Spirit ~ New Israel, all the Israel of God, the New Testament Church of Jesus Christ, which includes Jew and Gentile

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Earburner]

That I am... :) The Holy Spirit, Who superintended the writing of Scripture so that it is God-breathed and thus the very Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16-17), has convicted me (1 Thessalonians 1:5; Hebrews 11:1) of such. :)

I have to admit, it appears that you are attempting to put all of your knowledge into the "trinity concept", in order to be convincing, but it really is coming up short.
None of the scriptures, that you provided, reveal an additional third person existing in the Godhead of God the Father, dwelling within His resurrected Son.
However, it does reveal God the Father as Spirit, God the Son who is the Word made flesh,
co-existing AGAIN as One, AFTER Jesus' mortal death, which was when the Father had forsaken him, while on the cross.
John.17[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD with thee BEFORE the world was.

 

[PinSeeker]

I have to admit, it appears that you are attempting to put all of your knowledge into the "trinity concept", in order to be convincing, but it really is coming up short. None of the scriptures, that you provided, reveal an additional third person existing in the Godhead...

To you, sure. In your opinion. Well, that's too bad, but I'm fine with that. It is what it is. God is what He is.

Grace and peace to you, Earburner.

 

[PinSeeker]

Thou dost err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

LOL! Wow. :) Okay well, we can agree to disagree. Oh, wait, sorry: Thou and thy brother can agree-est to... disagree...est. :) Wow.

Grace and peace to you, LTWBV.

 

[PinSeeker]

Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.

Well, I'm not grievous, but rather amused. And reproof is a wonderful thing... when it is valid. :)

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Earburner]

To you, sure. In your opinion. Well, that's too bad, but I'm fine with that. It is what it is. God is what He is.

Grace and peace to you, Earburner.

To be brief, towards your escalating impatience with me, it is simply this:
In the foreknowledge of God, the plan of God's salvation was "brought forth" before the creation of the world. Proverbs 8:22-31.

The deepest desire of God the Father and God the Son, since our creation in innocence, has always been to permanently dwell WITHIN us forever AS ONE.
But, since our fall into sin, and God the Father's unwillingness to ALLOW US to become eternally immortal in that condition, He removed us from the Tree of [eternal] Life, who is Jesus Himself, because God cannot INDWELL that which is sinful. Needless to say, ever since then man had no eternal existence of any kind, and therefore was doomed to surely die, as they surely do.
But now that Jesus has come to us in the flesh, and died for our sins as "the Lamb of God", God the Father Himself can now dwell within us forever through Him dwelling within His Son, whereas before, he never did dwell in us, and never could.

EDIT:
Now you can know how, why and what Col. 3:1-4 really means.
[1] If ye then be risen with Christ [by His Spirit]**, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
[2] Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
[3] For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
[4] When Christ, who is our life, shall appear,++ then shall ye also appear with him in glory>>.

Notes:
** John 11:25, Romans 8:8-9
++ 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8
>> John 17:5-24

 

[Earburner]

To you, sure. In your opinion. Well, that's too bad, but I'm fine with that. It is what it is. God is what He is.

Grace and peace to you, Earburner.

My opinion?? Hardly!!
I have provided numerous and verifiable scriptures, with the correct spiritual interpretation, in context.
If there is anything that is opionated here, it is the concept of a trinity by pharisaical church-ianity, and their scholarly endowed theologians, which is nothing more than "the wisdom of men".
1 Corinthians 2[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but [rather] in the power of God.

 

[Taken]

i really wanna know can you say me it

The TWO Witnesses are not specifically Identified.

Some speculate a possibility of:
Moses & Elijah..
~The Two witnesses Shall have power to TURN waters (lakes, streams),
Into BLOOD (Rev 11:6)
** Moses was given that Power previously; (Ex 17:17}
~ The Two witnesses Shall have power to CALL fire (rain down upon the earth). (Rev 11:5)
** Elijah was given that Power previously; (2 Kings 1:10-12-14- etc.)

Jesus’ Transfiguration ~
Moses and Elijah (ie Elias) were present witnesses. (Matt 17:3-4)

Some speculate a possibility of:
Moses & Enoch...
~ Belief they have not Yet fulfilled their required one earthly death.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Earburner]

Earburner wrote:
The act of mediation between two warring parties, is a two way street.

PinSeeker replied:
Sure. But ~ and I'm not sure you're really saying this, but I'll speak to it anyway ~ the Father is not "at war" with us/anybody. His "war" ~ if you want to call it that ~ is against all evil and sin, and for His own glory. Psalm 2 echoes through my mind here...

Earburner's reply:
I think "warring" or "at war" is a very descriptive choice for "enmity".
Rom.8[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Eph.2[15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of TWAIN one new man, so making peace;
[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Jas.4[4] Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God

Edit: BTW, Ephesians 2:15 is the very solution of how it is that God the Father is able to dwell within us.
Jesus became the very first New Creature [creation], in which God the Father could dwell in.
So now, when we invite the Spirit of Christ into our life, God the Father comes WITH him, because God the Father DWELLS WITHIN Jesus.
Hebrews 10[16] This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
[17] And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
[18] Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
[19] Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the HOLIEST by the blood of Jesus,
[20] By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through THE VEIL, that is to say, HIS FLESH;

God the Father, dwelling within Jesus,
IS The Holy Spirit of God TOGETHER, to usward THROUGH Jesus, by him dwelling within our bodies, aka "earthen vessels".
John.14[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will COME unto him, and make OUR abode with[IN] him.

2Cor.4[7] But we have this TREASURE IN [our] earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
Rev.3[20] Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will COME in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

[Earburner]

The TWO Witnesses are not specifically Identified.

They indeed ARE identified, and you do know who they are, but our natural mind doesn't want to accept it, due to the misinformed reinforcement, by the doctrines of men, through pharisaical church-ianity, aka "the tares".

As for Moses and Elijah being at the Transfigurarion, Jesus foretold to the disciples of that event, and just EXACTLY what it would be, that they would see!
John.1[51] And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

Now you know who won't be showing up for the job of the Two Witnesses, because two others were MORE qualified for the position, because they were physically born Anointed by God the Father Himself**.
Zechariah 4[12] And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the TWO golden pipes [voices] empty the golden OIL out of themselves?
[13] And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
[14] Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by [firm, fast for] the **LORD of the whole earth.

 

[atpollard]

i really wanna know can you say me it

Morgan Freeman and Charleston Heston.

 

[Earburner]

Let me finish for you: "...conclude that the only reason why you do believe there is a "trinity" is because Jesus clearly states it in John 14:26."

So then, who or which one sends the/their Holy Spirit to us?
A. Is it God the Father,
B. God the Son,
C. or is it that BOTH do the sending?

Let's find out:
John 14
26 But the Comforter, [even] the Holy Spirit,
[A] whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you.


(B) John 15:26 when the Comforter is come,
whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

(C) John 14:23......and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Now, let me ask you this, when was the last time that you can recall, that you YOU SENT YOURSELF to comfort/help another? Iows, if you know that there is no one else to send but yourself, then that is what you will do!

So,.....is God ONE, or is He not???
Which Two of the Godhead is it, that is doing the sending of THEIR Holy Spirit?
The answer is "C"
John 17:5

 

[PinSeeker]

So then, who or which one sends the/their Holy Spirit to us?
A. Is it God the Father,
B. God the Son,
C. or is it that BOTH do the sending?

Let's find out:
John 14
26 But the Comforter, [even] the Holy Spirit,
[A] whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you.
John 15[26] But when the Comforter is come,
whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
[C] John 14:23......and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Now, let me ask you this, when was the last time that you can recall, that you YOU SENT YOURSELF to comfort/help another?

So,.....is God ONE, or is He not???
Which Two of the Godhead is it, that is doing the sending of THEIR Holy Spirit?
The answer is "C"
John 17:5

Not sure what version you're quoting ~ misquoting, hopefully ~ from, Earburner, but, well, here's John 14:26 (emphasis mine)...

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."​

So no, the answer is A. God the Father sends the Helper/Comforter ~ another comforter distinct from Jesus, as Jesus Himself said in John 14:16-17...

"And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, Whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. You know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you."​

So, Jesus did not send Himself, nor did He send the Holy Spirit. The Father did that, without question. So again, the answer is A.

Jesus does do some very important sending, though. As He said after His resurrection and just before His ascension, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you." (John 20:21). He sends us all into the world to make disciples.

Yes, God is one. One in three, Three in one. He is the triune Jehovah.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Earburner]

Not sure what version you're quoting ~ misquoting, hopefully ~ from, Earburner, but, well, here's John 14:26 (emphasis mine)...

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."​

So no, the answer is A. God the Father sends the Helper/Comforter ~ another comforter distinct from Jesus, as Jesus Himself said in John 14:16-17...

"And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, Whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. You know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you."​

So, Jesus did not send Himself, nor did He send the Holy Spirit. The Father did that, without question. So again, the answer is A.

Jesus does do some very important sending, though. As He said after His resurrection and just before His ascension, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you." (John 20:21). He sends us all into the world to make disciples.

Yes, God is one. One in three, Three in one. He is the triune Jehovah.

Grace and peace to you.

Your post is still being contrary to John 15:26
KJV John.15[26] But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Compare John 14:26 with John 15:26.
Hopefully, now you will see that my recent question is justified.

 

[PinSeeker]

Your post is still being contrary to John 15:26
KJV John.15[26] But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Compare John 14:26 with John 15:26.

I quoted, Earburner, verbatim, Jesus's words in John 14:26, and again here: "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."

Yes, in John 15:26, Jesus does say (and I quote), "But when the Helper comes, Whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, He will bear witness about Me."

Now, if it is your contention or assertion that Jesus contradicted Himself, then I wholeheartedly disagree.

In 15:26, Jesus does in fact say with regard to the Holy Spirit, "Whom I will send," and this indicates that the Holy Spirit will come in new power into the world in obedience to Jesus, God the Son, But "Who proceeds from the Father" indicates that the Holy Spirit will also come in obedience to the directions of God the Father and thus sent by the Father alone in that context, just as He sent Jesus. Yes, both the Father and the Son will send the Holy Spirit into the world in new fullness at Pentecost, and of course they did. So, very humbly, yes, I agree with your answer of C... now that you have explained your context, else I would have agreed all along. But A is also correct, because Jesus's sending is not quite in the same context as the Father's sending of the Holy Spirit, although very closely related.

But it is quite irrefutable that the Holy Spirit is a distinct entity from the Father and the Son, yet one with both the Father and the Son, just as Jesus said He and the Father are one. Thus the triune nature of God. John 14:26 and John 15:26 together are yet another proof of it.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Earburner]

So no, the answer is A. God the Father sends the Helper/Comforter ~ another comforter distinct from Jesus, as Jesus Himself said in John 14:16-17...

"And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, Whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. You know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you."
So, Jesus did not send Himself, nor did He send the Holy Spirit. The Father did that, without question. So again, the answer is A.

I trust that you and I can remain patient with each other here, because what I am saying is exactly what you HOPE that it can't be. Again, please compare John 14:26 with John 15:26.

I have explained this both scripturally and spiritually, being that God the Father CANNOT DWELL within any human because of SIN.
JESUS IS the Lamb OF GOD, for us as well as FOR the Father HIMSELF.

You know why there was a "veil" in the temple building!!
No mere uncovered/unprotected man shall SEE GOD and live!!

Ever since Jesus' resurrection, His spiritual and Immortal flesh and bone body IS THAT VEIL, which is for us, AS WELL AS for the Father.
God the Father can now be within us BUT.....ONLY through His Son!!!
WITHOUT Jesus, God the Father cannot Live within us, yet He does so this very moment. Why?
Because of Him Living WITHIN His Perfect Son FIRST, Jesus, who now is the VERY FIRST NEW creature/creation, now COMES TO US, bringing The Father WITHIN HIM.
Therefore in all reality, pharisaical church-ianity hatched a huge lie years ago, and has pounded us all into the pavement with it for centuries. We swallowed their fabricated conclusion hook, line and sinker. So now, for one to "hear" the Truth of it, the Trinitarian concoction of their belief system overwhelms our mind, causing one to actually deny the Truth that is scripturally and spiritually revealed to the believer.

By their lie, it is now considered by them
as being heresy and blasphemous to believe and speak the simple truth, that God the Father and God the Son are together as One, being themselves Holy Spirit together, as they always were before this world was.
One + One. = ONE.

John 17[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine OWN SELF with the glory which I HAD WITH thee before the world was.

 

[PinSeeker]

I trust that you and I can remain patient with each other here...

I credit myself as being a very patient person, yes. :) Whether you are or not, I really have no opinion on.

because what I am saying is exactly what you HOPE that it can't be.

Quite ridiculous. It seems you're just puffing yourself up, Earburner. But, suit yourself. :)

Again, please compare John 14:26 with John 15:26.

I did. See post 97 above. Not to your satisfaction, apparently, but I'm... not concerned about that. :)

I have explained this both scripturally and spiritually...

You've expressed your opinion, yes. And, well, you can say the same of me, certainly.

You know why there was a "veil" in the temple building!!

Yes. :)

No mere uncovered/unprotected man shall SEE GOD and live!!

Quite a bit more could be said about this. This begs the question ~ rhetorical, really ~ why can no man see God and live? This is a very important thing in and of itself, but I'm... not going down any more rabbit trails with you, Earburner. :)

Ever since Jesus' resurrection, His spiritual and Immortal flesh and bone body IS THAT VEIL, which is for us, AS WELL AS for the Father.

Disagree. The veil was torn upon Jesus's crucifixion and death on the cross. More could be said, but I'll leave it at that.

God the Father can now be within us BUT.....ONLY through His Son!!!
WITHOUT Jesus, God the Father cannot Live within us, yet He does so this very moment. Why? Because of Him Living WITHIN His Perfect Son FIRST, Jesus, who now is the VERY FIRST NEW creature/creation, now COMES TO US, bringing The Father WITHIN HIM.

Hmmm. Very colorful, in so many ways... :) Again, much more could be said, Earburner, but in the interest of being very brief, I will point to the words of Jesus here to Thomas in John 14:6 ~ “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

Therefore in all reality, pharisaical church-ianity hatched a huge lie years ago, and has pounded us all into the pavement with it for centuries. We swallowed their fabricated conclusion hook, line and sinker. So now, for one to "hear" the Truth of it, the Trinitarian concoction of their belief system overwhelms our mind, causing one to actually deny the Truth that is scripturally and spiritually revealed to the believer.

God the Father and God the Son are together as One...

Yes, as well at the Holy Spirit. One cannot read Jesus's words in John 14 and not understand the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as three distinct persons ~ unless he or she is just overtaken with willful ignorance.

...themselves Holy Spirit together, as they always were before this world was.
One + One. = ONE.

We see in Genesis 1:2 the distinctness in Person of the Holy Spirit, Who was present with the Father at creation, as He was hovering over the face of the waters. And in view of John 1:2-3 ~ "He was in the beginning with God... (a)ll things were made through Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made" ~ So was the Son. So... One + One + One = ONE. :)

The Enlightenment of the 19th century was a good thing in many ways, but many heresies came out of it, and what you're propagating is one... a big one. :)

Grace and peace to you, Earburner.

 

[Earburner]

Quite a bit more could be said about this. This begs the question ~ rhetorical, really ~ why can no man see God and live? This is a very important thing in and of itself, but I'm... not going down any more rabbit trails with you, Earburner. :)

Disagree. The veil was torn upon Jesus's crucifixion and death on the cross. More could be said, but I'll leave it at that.

Comprehend Hebrew 10:19-21 by understanding that we can now approach God, but only through Jesus, of Whom God indwells.
Therefore, the Father dwells in us indirectly, through the Veil of Jesus Himself, and in no other way.

If the Spirit of Jesus is not within us, we are assured neither is the Spirit of the Father!! Together, they are Holy Spirit. You can't have one without the other:)
Heb. 10
[19] Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
[20] By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh [Immortal flesh];
[21] And having [now] an high priest over the house of God;

As it pertains to the symbolism of the temple veil being torn in two, it is speaking about the new and living way to enter into God the Father's Presence, of whom dwells WITHIN the Spiritual, Immortal Flesh of Jesus, the only Mediator between man and God the Father.

A third "add on" to the Godhead of Two, is not a separate, additional Spirit of God the Father and/or the Son, but rather it is a goal of function by the Two, being One IN SPIRIT.
Their Oneness in Spirit is 100% visible in Romans 8:8-11, which again is saying: you can't have One without the Other.