Who Created or Made a Sin Nature?

[robert derrick]

Adam represented the entire human race to come; he was its ~ our ~ progenitor.

Adam was the first man made by Christ with natural flesh. Big deal. He didn't have anything to say about that, and neither do we. As the saying goes, "I don't know him from Adam."

In biblical federalism, not only do we bear the consequences of the representatives God chose for us, but we are also regarded as having done what our representative did. This is exactly what Paul says in Romans 5:12...

God doesn't choose parents for children, but children for parents.

Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

This also shows children of the womb are not born in sin of the devil: all babes are still God's reward.

People who preach babes being made and born full of sin in their flesh, and of the devil, full well reject simple Scripture saying otherwise, that all babes are created by Christ good in mortal flesh and pure in spirit.

The devil is not a creator, maker, nor father to any babe of any living creature on earth.

In biblical federalism, not only do we bear the consequences of the representatives God chose for us, but we are also regarded as having done what our representative did.

If we do likewise. I don't follow any example I don't want to, other than that of Jesus, whether parent, neighbor, minister, or voted representative, especially if I didn't vote for them.

To a great degree youths are in bondage to the examples of their parents, until they learn to do otherwise: but no babe is born already guilty of deeds of others in the past.

No man is judged by God for the sinning of others, except they do likewise:

The soul that sinneth, IT only shall die.

So yes, Adam was our representative, just as ~ later on in history ~ Jesus was our representative.

Because we read about them in Scripture, and with the first Adam, God tells us he is not to be our example nor federal representative to follow, but only Jesus.

Federal representation pertaining to birth only applies to the natural shape of the living creature in mortal flesh: not the spirit nor deeds.

And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

Christ is still the Creator of every spirit of angels and men, one at a time, equally.

Jesus lived a perfect life on our behalf and took the punishment for sin on our behalf. So, if we’re united to Christ by faith, God counts us as perfectly righteous because our representative, Jesus Christ, is perfectly righteous. Even further ~ and this is particularly what you need to hear ~ Christ's obedience becomes our obedience. This in no way lessens in any way or removes our responsibility... [perish the thought] ...to obey the Lord in everything, but Christ's righteousness is credited to us ~ just as it was to Abraham ~ because we believe God.

This is pseudo-Scriptural hogwash of OSAS.

Jesus only paid the price for forgiveness of sins, and until a man confesses with godly sorrow to Jesus, no man is forgiven by God. The price of forgiveness by God is paid for by Jesus alone, but is not recieved by any soul, until we pay our price of repentance on our own cross for His sake.

No man is righteous nor forgiven, that is doing unrighteousness with the devil: no child of the devil is also a born son of God at the same time.

Christ's obedience to the Father is our obedience, when we obey Him. Duh.

All this "His righteousness is our righteousness, His obedience is our obedience, His life is our life" by imagined faith alone is ideological christian pap.

What we have, is what we do, whether having the devil while sinning against Christ, or having Jesus while doing righteousness of God.

For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

Robert. In the first chapter of his gospel, John is harkening back to Genesis 1. We are talking about the creation of material (physical) things, here, my friend. So what you say here is non sequitur, really. It is true, of course, that, as John says, "all things were made through Christ, and without Christ nothing was made that was made." But what's being spoken of is God's creation of all physical things, both in Genesis 1 and John 1. Yes, I would wholeheartedly agree that because God did it, it was certainly a spiritual thing that He did, but still, both Moses in Genesis 1-2 (especially Genesis 2, because it zooms in on the creation of man, Adam from dust and Eve from Adam's rib) and John in John 1:3 are talking about everything physical.

Finally, someone addressing the point of the thread. Thanks much, and good job for proving the point:

All flesh and natural things of earth are still created by Christ today, the same as He did yesterday, both mortal and good.

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Christ makes no natural thing in itself unclean and full of sin, whether flesh of man or grass of earth, which certainly would not be for His pleasure.

"You are speaking something that exists that has entered into the seed and flesh of man..."
No, actually the opposite; I'm speaking of something that died from Adam, that he lost ~ Adam died, just as God said he would, and you agree on this based on what you just said, Robert ~ and is thus true from birth for all of his progeny. We are without life, dead in our sin.

Nice try. You are getting better at this, which makes my time with you much more profitable.

All souls lose the spiritual life of Christ they are created with, when they receive the devil's lust into their hearts to sin against God.

As you say, we are without life of Christ, and are dead in our sins and trespasses, when we sin and trespass against Jesus. Our flesh remains the same: mortal as created.

and is thus true from birth for all of his progeny.

This is the false part, when applied to the flesh.

Children are living reward and heritage of the Lord, not dead devils born from the womb.

Satan is not the creator nor father of any living creature born into the world. Nor does he lighten them with darkness.

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

"And so, back to square 1: Who created and made this powerful sin nature, that exists in the seed and flesh of man, so that it is passed on to babes in the womb?"

No, that's actually square zero; a non-starter. Again, as I said immediately above, something died in Adam. Adam died, just as God said he would, and is thus true ~ from birth ~ of all of his progeny; we are without life, dead in our sin. What I'm speaking of was not somehow "created." The true image of God, in which Adam was created, was spoiled ~ not fully removed, but horribly spoiled, and this was of Adam, not of God ~ in Adam and Eve when he and Eve fell from grace.

What died in Adam, as with every soul that sins, is the soul. Flesh only dies because Christ makes all flesh that way, which is good according to His will, not evil.

You reject having to name who creates a new sin seed in Adam, that is not there by Christ, then you do well, because there is no other creator of anything in heaven nor on earth, whether in flesh or spirit, than Christ.

And what is not created by Christ, does not exist, whether in stars or in flesh.

I see, so, "God bless you, you blankety-blankety-blank..."

No seriously. I ceased to expect what most people on this sight do not give, and so I no longer care about it.

But you are getting much better at it: you actually address a point I make and try to refute it. That is rare. Most people just talk over and around each other, while repeating their own mantras.

I no longer bother with them, and so I am much happier.

And since the subject of this thread is mute with you, then if you would like to continue a point by point argument on being born by Satan with sin-filled flesh, we can do so in private, if you like.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

I don't think he is saying that. But again, he can speak for himself.

Grace and peace to you.

That's the thing. He didn't answer the question about newborns,babies,dying in sin.

He posted scriptures that allude to the answer being,yes. Without saying so directly.

 

[ScottA]

Are babies able to die in sin?

Indeed they are...and the good die young. The verses you are looking for, are these:

John 6:44
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Job 1:21
And he said: “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, And naked shall I return there. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; Blessed be the name of the Lord.”

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Matthew 19:14
But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”

Acts 10:42
And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead.​

The key word here is "unless the Father who sent Me draws him." It is the Father who draws all, and Jesus who judges. But being drawn without a life of various trials, His judgement is finished according to the Father's timing (the "day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but the Father only").

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Indeed they are...and the good die young. The verses you are looking for, are these:

John 6:44
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Job 1:21
And he said: “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, And naked shall I return there. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; Blessed be the name of the Lord.”

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Matthew 19:14
But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”

Acts 10:42
And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead.​

The key word here is "unless the Father who sent Me draws him." It is the Father who draws all, and Jesus who judges. But being drawn without a life of various trials, His judgement is finished according to the Father's timing (the "day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but the Father only").

Those verses do not say babies are born in and die in sin.

 

[PinSeeker]

Romans 10:13 tells us, everyone who calls on the name of the father shall be saved. Babies cannot do this.

Ah! So to address this, let's backtrack a bit regarding what Paul says here. Follow me here:

When Paul says what he says in Romans 10:13, this is just after he has said, first in Romans 8:28-30, "God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that He (His Son, Jesus) might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified."

Then comes Romans 9:15-16, where Paul is talking about God's purpose of election, and writes "...He (God) says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy."

And when Paul gets to what he says in Romans 10:13, he is referring directly to what the prophet Joel says in his prophecy. Having quoted God, Joel writes, "...it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls (Joel 2:32). So, God's inward call of the person ~ which is His mercy and compassion ~ is what is effectual, and it can happen at any age ~ even in the womb, as evidenced by John's leaping in his mother Elizabeth's womb when she was greeted by Mary, who at the time was pregnant with the Lord Jesus. And the point too is, God's call of us effects our call on Him.

And Paul drives the point home in Romans 11, when he writes, "...the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29).

Again, God's calling people unto Himself does not happen because we call on Him, but the other way around ~ our calling on Him is the inevitable result of Him calling us... actually the direct result of His (giving us) a new heart, His putting a new spirit within us ~ removing the heart of stone from our flesh and giving us a heart of flesh, His putting His Spirit with us (Ezekiel 36:26-27)... this is His mercy, His compassion and immediately follows His inward call, issued by His Spirit. This is how our being born again happens. And as I said, it can happen at any age.

Which is why infant baptism is invalid. Nor is there a passage that tells us salvation is a babies inheritance through their saved parents sexual union.

Well, right... God may or may not have mercy/compassion on that baby; that is His call. Harkening back to what Paul says in Romans 9:15-16, "(God) says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy."

However, egarding baptism... :)... Virtually the same distinction as above must be made, that there is an inward baptism, administered by the Spirit with fire (Matthew 3:11, Acts 1:4-5, 1 Corinthians 12:13) and an outward baptism, administered by us using water. The former is the real effectual baptism, and the latter is a sacrament and as such a sign of God's promise. As John the Baptist says in Matthew 3, "I baptize you with water for repentance, but He Who is coming after me is mightier than I, Whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

With this in mind, then we have to remember Peter's words in Acts 2:38, that God's promise is for us and our children. This is why infant baptism is valid, not because it saves, or that the baby is saved when we baptize him/her, but because we, in faith, are trusting in God's promise to work through believing parents and at some point in their lives call that person to Him. Peter, in Acts 2, is talking specifically to the men of Israel, and he is telling them that, not only should the men be baptized, but their whole households, their children... which presumably includes babies... and all who are far off ~ because the promise is for all of them.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[PinSeeker]

PinSeeker: ...it gives us a valid reason for why we cannot, in this life, keep from sinning. In no way do we have any excuse, as Paul is very clear of in Romans 1 and 2.​

You are proving my point...

Proving your point wrong... :)

...believing we have a sin nature gives us an excuse to sin.

Let me ask you something, Bobby. Speeding is a minor infraction, but if I believe I have ~ or even if I do actually have ~ a nasty habit of speeding, does that give me an excuse to speed? Well, no, of course not. Or by the same token ~ but much more serious ~ if I am an alcoholic, does that give me an excuse to drive drunk? Well, no, absolutely not. Having a natural proclivity to sin does not give us any ~ any ~ excuse to sin.

But sin brings trouble into our lives. If we want a life without trouble, we need to repent of our sin, which is what Jesus commanded us to do (Matthew 4:17).

Sure. Absolutely.

Grace and peace to you.[/quote]

 

[PinSeeker]

Adam was the first man made by Christ with natural flesh. Big deal.

It is most assuredly a big deal. First and second things are very, very important in the Bible. We can cite here what Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 15, that:

"The first man (Adam) was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man (Jesus) is from heaven. As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven."​

God doesn't choose parents for children, but children for parents.

Sure, I agree, but this is off topic, really.

This also shows children of the womb are not born in sin of the devil: all babes are still God's reward.

They are of the devil at least initially, because the Devil is the father of all who do not believe. As Jesus told the Jews gathered around Him in John 8, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires." And again, David ~ the man after God's own heart, you will remember ~ says, in Psalm 51:5, "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." This is true of all of us.

That "babes are God's reward" is true, of course, but that does nothing to refute the fact that children are sinful from conception.

People who preach babes being made and born full of sin in their flesh, and of the devil...

...understand and attribute to all, even themselves, what David was saying of Himself in Psalm 51:5.

...simple Scripture saying otherwise, that all babes are created by Christ good in mortal flesh and pure in spirit.

Nope. That "babes" are created good or pure pure in spirit is absolutely antithetical to Scripture. They inherit the same dead in sin condition that Adam and Eve, the mother of all the living) acquired in Genesis 3. What was true in Noah's day is still true today for the natural person, regardless of age, that the wickedness of man (is) great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of (the natural man's) heart (is) only evil continually (Genesis 6:5). This wickedness may not have manifest itself in babies, but it is there. The natural heart is of stone, regardless of age, is in desperate need of being exchanged ~ by God ~ for a heart of flesh, for God to put His Spirit in us, thus causing us, as Peter puts it, to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for us, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time (1 Peter 1:3-5), and to, as Paul puts it, walk in the Spirit (Galatians 5:16).

The devil is not a creator, maker... of any living creature on earth

True story.

The devil is not... nor father to any babe of any living creature on earth.

Yes he is; see above.

PinSeeker: In biblical federalism, not only do we bear the consequences of the representatives God chose for us, but we are also regarded as having done what our representative did.​

If we do likewise.

Nope. Guilt by association. And we inevitably will do likewise, because of the nature we have acquired from birth, inherited from our first parents.

No man is judged by God for the sinning of others...

Quite true ~ nobody is insinuating that ~ but that is beside the point. See above.

God tells us he is not to be our example nor federal representative to follow, but only Jesus.

Agreed. But naturally, the first Adam is our federal representative. This is the general call of the Gospel. Sure.

Federal representation pertaining to birth only applies to the natural shape of the living creature in mortal flesh...

As our representative in the Garden of Eden, Adam failed, and the judgment placed on Him was spread to all men: "...sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned..." This is concept of federalism.

PinSeeker: Jesus lived a perfect life on our behalf and took the punishment for sin on our behalf. So, if we’re united to Christ by faith, God counts us as perfectly righteous because our representative, Jesus Christ, is perfectly righteous. Even further ~ and this is particularly what you need to hear ~ Christ's obedience becomes our obedience. This in no way lessens in any way or removes our responsibility... [perish the thought] ...to obey the Lord in everything, but Christ's righteousness is credited to us ~ just as it was to Abraham ~ because we believe God.​

This is pseudo-Scriptural hogwash of OSAS.

LOL! No, it's very scriptural in its context:

• "(Abraham) believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness." (Genesis 15:6)
• "For what does the Scripture say? 'Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.'” (Romans 4:3)
• "...just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”? (Galatians 3:6)
• "Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; .and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness” ~ and he was called a friend of God. (James 2:21-23)

What we have, is what we do...

Self-sufficiency is no sufficiency at all.

All souls lose the spiritual life of Christ they are created with, when they receive the devil's lust into their hearts to sin against God.

Which... happens at conception. See above.

PinSeeker: We are without life, dead in our sin... and is thus true from birth for all of his progeny.​

This is the false part, when applied to the flesh.

Right; we're not born physically dead. :) So it's bot being "applied to the flesh." From birth, even from conception, we are spiritually dead.

I ceased to expect what most people on this sight do not give, and so I no longer care about it.

If you "no longer care," then why are you obviously (in your ranting and raving) so very angry? :)

I am much happier.

Well, I'm glad you're happy. Yeah, happiness is important... :) But your actions speak much louder than words... :)

And since the subject of this thread is mute with you...

Ah, well, 'moot.' Well, no, it's not moot. Nor is it mute... :) But people keep going off on tangents... like into other areas, either closely or loosely related to the topic at hand. And if I think it worth doing, I follow them where they go... :) That's kind of what happens with most of these threads.

...if you would like to continue a point by point argument on being born by Satan with sin-filled flesh, we can do so in private, if you like.

Well that's... kind of what I did here, because folks have gone there... :) See above. If you would like to speak in private, let me know.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[ScottA]

Those verses do not say babies are born in and die in sin.

It is here in Job:

Job 1:21
And he said: “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, And naked shall I return there. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; Blessed be the name of the Lord.”
​

Life and death are in His hands. But having been born into death, indeed, we are all born into sin by nature of death.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

It is here in Job:

Job 1:21
And he said: “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, And naked shall I return there. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; Blessed be the name of the Lord.”
​

Life and death are in His hands. But having been born into death, indeed, we are all born into sin by nature of death.

No. That verse does not state newborns or babies are born in sin and die in their sins.

 

[ScottA]

No. That verse does not state newborns or babies are born in sin and die in their sins.

Does the Lord not give all to all and from all--even newborn babes? And if they die, is that not proof and the price of sin? (Rhetorical)

Of course He does--and of course it is.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Does the Lord not give all to all and from all--even newborn babes? And if they die, is that not proof and the price of sin? (Rhetorical)

Of course He does--and of course it is.

Your observation is not scriptural evidence babies are born sinners and if they die,die in sin.
Jesus said, truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

It is incongruous to that wisdom for someone to insist babies are born and die in sin.
Because no scripture states they are or do.

King David's Psalm said, in sin did my mother conceive me.

What a horrific indictment that would be against God anointed marriage.

But it isn't that.
King David's Psalm/Song was personal. Not ecclesiastical.

 

[PinSeeker]

Your observation is not scriptural evidence babies are born sinners and if they die,die in sin.

It is scriptural evidence, along with Psalm 51:5, that we are all born in sin and thus sinners. However, I don't think Scott is offering it as evidence that if they die, they die in sin. Or, maybe he is. He can speak to that, but I think he would agree ~ or maybe not ~ that God can still, by the working of the Spirit, change the heart and work faith in that baby, regardless of age. Regardless, that is the case. So it is not a sure thing that if they die, they die in sin. God may have mercy on them. But for any one baby, we cannot know.

It is incongruous to that wisdom for someone to insist babies are born and die in sin.

Again, I don't think he's doing that. They are born in sin, but don't necessarily die in sin. Again, God may have mercy on them. But for any one baby, we cannot know.

King David's Psalm said, in sin did my mother conceive me. What a horrific indictment that would be against God anointed marriage.

My goodness. I see how this can be misunderstood, but when David says, "In sin did my mother conceive me," he is not talking about his mother being in sin. He's talking about himself, his own spiritual state at birth, even conception.

King David's Psalm/Song was personal.

Absolutely. And what is true of him personally, at least as far as this goes, is true of all of us. All of humanity. Ecclesiastical-ness or lack thereof really has nothing to do with it.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

It is scriptural evidence, along with Psalm 51:5, that we are all born in sin and thus sinners. However, I don't think Scott is offering it as evidence that if they die, they die in sin. He can speak to that, but I think he would agree that God can still, by the working of the Spirit, change the heart and work faith in that baby, regardless of age. So it is not a sure thing that if they die, they die in sin.


Again, I don't think he's doing that. They are born in sin, but don't necessarily die in sin.


My goodness. I see how this can be misunderstood, but when David says, "In sin did my mother conceive me," he is not talking about his mother being in sin. He's talking about himself, his own spiritual state at birth, even conception.


Absolutely. And what is true of him personally, at least as far as this goes, is true of all of us. All of humanity. Ecclesiastical-ness or lack thereof really has nothing to do with it.

You have my deepest sympathy that you would worship a god who breathes his life into a newborn and condemns them to hell as sinners in utero and after birth, unless that same unholy spirit that damned the innocent to damnation at conception works in them to get them out of what he destined them to enter.

More importantly however, my very deepest sympathies rest upon your children.

Cursed are those who call evil good.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

@Heart2Soul, here is another RCC member.
God giving in utero babies the curse of a sinful nature is unique to the RCC Catechism.
Catechism of The Catholic Church #1250

It is scriptural evidence, along with Psalm 51:5, that we are all born in sin and thus sinners. However, I don't think Scott is offering it as evidence that if they die, they die in sin. Or, maybe he is. He can speak to that, but I think he would agree ~ or maybe not ~ that God can still, by the working of the Spirit, change the heart and work faith in that baby, regardless of age. Regardless, that is the case. So it is not a sure thing that if they die, they die in sin. God may have mercy on them. But for any one baby, we cannot know.


Again, I don't think he's doing that. They are born in sin, but don't necessarily die in sin. Again, God may have mercy on them. But for any one baby, we cannot know.


My goodness. I see how this can be misunderstood, but when David says, "In sin did my mother conceive me," he is not talking about his mother being in sin. He's talking about himself, his own spiritual state at birth, even conception.


Absolutely. And what is true of him personally, at least as far as this goes, is true of all of us. All of humanity. Ecclesiastical-ness or lack thereof really has nothing to do with it.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Angelina]

No one is arguing against sin having entered into the world by man sinning, and so death passes upon all men when they sin, whether with or without the law.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law.

The objection is to sin entering into man's natural seed and flesh, to compel men to sin from birth, which is not what Scripture is saying.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

And so the question is, who is now making man's flesh in the womb full of sin? Christ? The devil? man?

No-one is making man sin. Sin [original sin] has been inherited based on the above post. That inheritance is removed when man accepts Christ as their own personal Lord and savior by grace through faith.

Excerpts from your post -

So far, no one can seem to even acknowledge the point, no matter how many times I have tried to keep the thread on track.
I no longer argue the endless debate of whether man's flesh has sin in it from birth: I just want to know who is making our bodies that way, if not Christ.

Babies born into the world are innocent until they reach an age of knowledge of what is good and what is evil. If they by practice, choose evil, they transgress the Law of God, which is sin.
1 John 3:4 AMP
4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness [ignoring God’s law by action or neglect or by tolerating wrongdoing—being unrestrained by His commands and His will].

Psalms 27:3
Behold, children are a heritage and gift from the Lord, The fruit of the womb a reward.
Matthew 18:3
3 and said, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, unless you repent [that is, change your inner self—your old way of thinking, live changed lives] and become like little children [trusting, humble, and forgiving], you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:4 ESV
but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”


Hebrews 12:7-8
7 You must submit to [correction for the purpose of] discipline; God is dealing with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
Now if you are exempt from correction and without discipline, in which all [of God’s children] share, then you are illegitimate children and not sons [at all].
Proverbs 22:15
Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of discipline [correction administered with godly wisdom and lovingkindness] will remove it far from him.

1 John 2 ESV
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. ...

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

No-one is making man sin. Sin has been inherited based on the above post. That inheritance is removed when man accepts Christ as their own personal Lord and savior by grace through faith.

Excerpts from your post -
Babies born into the world are innocent until they reach an age of knowledge of what is good and what is evil. If they by practice, choose evil, they transgress the Law of God, which is sin.
1 John 3:4 AMP
4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness [ignoring God’s law by action or neglect or by tolerating wrongdoing—being unrestrained by His commands and His will].

Psalms 27:3
Behold, children are a heritage and gift from the Lord, The fruit of the womb a reward.
Matthew 18:3
3 and said, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, unless you repent [that is, change your inner self—your old way of thinking, live changed lives] and become like little children [trusting, humble, and forgiving], you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:4 ESV
but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”


Hebrews 12:7-8
7 You must submit to [correction for the purpose of] discipline; God is dealing with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
Now if you are exempt from correction and without discipline, in which all [of God’s children] share, then you are illegitimate children and not sons [at all].
Proverbs 22:15
Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of discipline [correction administered with godly wisdom and lovingkindness] will remove it far from him.

1 John 2 ESV
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. ...

Something those who insist in utero babies are sinners forget. They're implicating Jesus in utero in that indictment. That's blasphemy.

Article - Are Babies Sinners? (Part 2) — The Gospel of Christ
The Bible is clear that babies are not sinners for the following additional reasons (see part 1 for reasons 1-4): 5) God gives babies their human spirits and makes them in His own image (Genesis 1:26-27; Ecclesiastes 12:7; Acts 17:25; Hebrews 12:9). God is not the giver or source of sin (James 1:13, 17); 6) The Scriptures indicate that sin is chosen (not inherited) by humans at some moment during their “youth” (not at conception or infancy, Genesis 8:21: Job 13:26; Isaiah 7:16; Jeremiah 3:25; 32:30) at which time they are held accountable and spiritually separated from God (Isaiah 7:15-17; Romans 7:7-12); 7) Jesus was conceived as an offspring of King David “according to the flesh” through Mary and was “born of a woman” (Romans 1:3; Galatians 4:4). No baby, including Jesus, is conceived/born a sinner (Hebrews 4:15); 8) To teach/practice original sin or total heredity depravity is to go against the doctrine/authority of Christ who never authorized a baby, whether at conception or at birth, to “be sprinkled with water” (unscriptural definition of baptism) in order to erase a hell-bound “inherited” sin (false doctrine, Matthew 28:18; 2 John 1:9-11). In summary, the Bible teaches that babies are pure, innocent and sinless as they are given life by a sinless God. They are neither mentally/spiritually mature enough to choose to sin and to obey the gospel, nor do they inherit or are held accountable for anyone else’s sin. Since sin has not entered into their lives and separated them from God, they are neither saved nor lost but are spiritually safe in the care of their Creator.

 

[Jack]

Did God create us all knowing who would burn in Hell forever and ever? Could He have saved everyone? Of course!

Proverbs 16
4 The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Did God create us all knowing who would burn in Hell forever and ever? Could He have saved everyone? Of course!

Proverbs 16
4 The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.

But he didn't.
Revelation 13.

 

[Bob Estey]

Proving your point wrong... :)


Let me ask you something, Bobby. Speeding is a minor infraction, but if I believe I have ~ or even if I do actually have ~ a nasty habit of speeding, does that give me an excuse to speed? Well, no, of course not. Or by the same token ~ but much more serious ~ if I am an alcoholic, does that give me an excuse to drive drunk? Well, no, absolutely not. Having a natural proclivity to sin does not give us any ~ any ~ excuse to sin.


Sure. Absolutely.

Grace and peace to you.

[/QUOTE]
I think we create our own proclivity to sin, by sinning. I think sin is addictive.

 

[PinSeeker]

I think we create our own proclivity to sin, by sinning. I think sin is addictive.

With regard to sin, generally speaking, we inherit or proclivity to it. In a manner of speaking, from birth, we're like the newborn child of a cocaine addict. Like David, we were brought forth in iniquity; we were in sin from our conception by our mothers (Psalm 51:5).

Grace and peace to you, Bob.