Who Does The Father Draw?

[LC627]

What did God foreknow and what did God predestine?
Are you a calvinist? Or do you just not know their theology?

God foreknew everything that would ever happen and out of His foreknowledge He predestined those who would believe in Him. Nothing was hidden from His sight.

2 Timothy 1:9 He has saved us and called us to a holy life-not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.

Before a single day had passed on the earth God already knew everything.

I am not a Calvinist, I believe what is in the Bible and it is clear predestination is Biblical. Do you just erase that word from your Bible? It is all from the foreknowledge of God

 

[LC627]

What are you saying AMEN to?

the SCRIPTURE

 

[LC627]

"So I'm happy to hear you're not calvinist. This is why:
It changes the nature of God. God is love.
1 John 4:8
How does a God of love predestinate some to hell through no fault of their own??"
Why do not others see how horrible this doctrine is??
Great post @GodsGrace

God is also a Righteous Judge who will bring wrath.

 

[Dcopymope]

I think it depends on the perspective. From our perspective it is our free will. From God's it is election.

So what is the relevance of either perspective when it comes to getting tossed in the fire for not believing in a God you may have never heard of to start with? If Satan is whispering thoughts in your ear, will said individual be aware of it? Has he ever heard of Satan? To what degree will said individual be made responsible for that thought that some guy he never heard of put into him to start with on judgement day? I thought it was only one perspective on this matter anyway. Humanity having an innate knowledge of a higher power is not the same as actually knowing God, or even knowing of him.

 

[Philip James]

Acknowledging "something greater" is different than submission to the One Lord and Savior. Their acknowledgement is really towards demons and false gods - not the True Messiah

They walk in darkness, but it is that innate desire for God that gives them that religious impulse...

Peace!

 

[Nancy]

God foreknew everything that would ever happen and out of His foreknowledge He predestined those who would believe in Him. Nothing was hidden from His sight.

2 Timothy 1:9 He has saved us and called us to a holy life-not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.

Before a single day had passed on the earth God already knew everything.

I am not a Calvinist, I believe what is in the Bible and it is clear predestination is Biblical. Do you just erase that word from your Bible? It is all from the foreknowledge of God

It all depends on your definition of "predestination" God predestined corporately, not individually. --->He predestined the Gentiles! Which means ALL men. We were grafted in. That was God's mystery in the OT-Imho.

 

[Mjh29]

It all depends on your definition of "predestination" God predestined corporately, not individually. --->He predestined the Gentiles! Which means ALL men. We were grafted in. That was God's mystery in the OT-Imho.

So... all men go to heaven?

 

[Mjh29]

God foreknew everything that would ever happen and out of His foreknowledge He predestined those who would believe in Him. Nothing was hidden from His sight.

2 Timothy 1:9 He has saved us and called us to a holy life-not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.

Before a single day had passed on the earth God already knew everything.

I am not a Calvinist, I believe what is in the Bible and it is clear predestination is Biblical. Do you just erase that word from your Bible? It is all from the foreknowledge of God

Well, I AM a Calvinist,(lol go ahead and bash me; Ive heard it all lollll } and I agree; Predestination is Biblical. However, it was not based on any good God saw in any of us, because there "Are none good, no not one.'. Rather, God chose a particular people based on His Sovereign Will, not on any merit, or works, or future goodness of said persons.

 

[Stranger]

What are you saying AMEN to?

Why do you ask this yet do not answer my post?

I think this hatred you have of Calvinism has consumed you.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

It all depends on your definition of "predestination" God predestined corporately, not individually. --->He predestined the Gentiles! Which means ALL men. We were grafted in. That was God's mystery in the OT-Imho.

'Pre-destination' is not the same thing as 'election'. Predestination always speaks to the believer being conformed into the image of Christ, (Rom. 8:29-30), and to the adult son adoption or placement. (Eph. 1:5)

Election speaks to the believer being chosen in eternity past by God. (Eph. 1:4)

Stranger

 

[Nancy]

'Pre-destination' is not the same thing as 'election'. Predestination always speaks to the believer being conformed into the image of Christ, (Rom. 8:29-30), and to the adult son adoption or placement. (Eph. 1:5)

Election speaks to the believer being chosen in eternity past by God. (Eph. 1:4)
Stranger

Since God calls everyone to repent and believe, there is no election.

Calvin said that: " by external preaching all are called to faith and repentance,..."and that yet the Spirit of faith and repentance is not given to all.”
2 Addressing himself to the assumption that the external call to everyone implies a universal grace of God to all and a universal promise to all, Calvin reminds such objectors to election that God is not “under a fixed obligation to call all equally.” <---wow. God is ALWAYS under His own obligation! He ALWAYS means what He say's and does what He promises. He does NOT change and is always faithful. He says ALL, ANY, WHOMSOEVER, THE WORLD and so many more places in The Word make this crystal clear.
The Gospel is to be simple not complicated.
I pray you will always keep your heart open, your pride in check.
God bless,
-nancy

 

[Mjh29]

Since God calls everyone to repent and believe, there is no election.

Calvin said that: " by external preaching all are called to faith and repentance,..."and that yet the Spirit of faith and repentance is not given to all.”
2 Addressing himself to the assumption that the external call to everyone implies a universal grace of God to all and a universal promise to all, Calvin reminds such objectors to election that God is not “under a fixed obligation to call all equally.” <---wow. God is ALWAYS under His own obligation! He ALWAYS means what He say's and does what He promises. He does NOT change and is always faithful. He says ALL, ANY, WHOMSOEVER, THE WORLD and so many more places in The Word make this crystal clear.
The Gospel is to be simple not complicated.
I pray you will always keep your heart open, your pride in check.
God bless,
-nancy

So.... everyone is in heaven. Including Hitler and other like minded oppressive dictators? No, of course not. And the obligation you are making reference to does not refer to God being obligated to Himself, rather; God being obligated to man. To put it, as you said, simply; God doesn't owe man anything, especially not salvation. What Calvin is making reference to is that God uses the tool of preaching and evangelism to advance His cause, yet in the end chooses those that He Wills to be saved, for no other reason than His own goodness and pleasure. So no, everyone doesn't go to Heaven. Sorry, the Bible says otherwise. And yes, God DOES choose some and not others. Why you ask? Again, to put it simply, we cannot and never will understand why God does some of the things He does.

 

[Nancy]

So.... everyone is in heaven. Including Hitler and other like minded oppressive dictators? No, of course not. And the obligation you are making reference to does not refer to God being obligated to Himself, rather; God being obligated to man. To put it, as you said, simply; God doesn't owe man anything, especially not salvation. What Calvin is making reference to is that God uses the tool of preaching and evangelism to advance His cause, yet in the end chooses those that He Wills to be saved, for no other reason than His own goodness and pleasure. So no, everyone doesn't go to Heaven. Sorry, the Bible says otherwise. And yes, God DOES choose some and not others. Why you ask? Again, to put it simply, we cannot and never will understand why God does some of the things He does.

"So.... everyone is in heaven. Including Hitler and other like minded oppressive dictators?" Did I say everyone is in heaven??? No, I did not even imply that. Those who are not, made their choice to "CHOOSE this day whom you will serve..."

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Here's what Richard Baxter wrote over 300 years ago:
"Now I would know of any man, would you believe that Christ died for all men if the Scripture plainly speak it? If you would, do but tell me, what words can you devise or would you wish more plain for it than are there used? Is it not enough that Christ is called the Saviour of the World? You’ll say, but is it of the whole World? Yes, it saith, He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole World. Will you say, but it is not for All men in the World? Yes it saith he died for All men, as well as for all the World. But will you say, it saith not for every man? Yes it doth say, he tasted death for every man. But you may say, It means all the Elect, if it said so of any Non-Elect I would believe. Yes, it speaks of those that denied the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And yet all this seems nothing to men prejudiced."

 

[Mjh29]

.... But you said all were called.
And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified. Romans 8:30

 

[Nancy]

.... But you said all were called.
And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified. Romans 8:30

What did Jesus say when He was ascending back into Heaven?
I will draw SOME men unto me"? Sorry Mjh29, this doctrine pushed me away from the Lord back in the 90's...and I believe it is a lie from Satan. I will pray for to desire truth, not just to be right.
I am finished on this thread. God bless you

 

[Mjh29]

What did Jesus say when He was ascending back into Heaven?
I will draw SOME men unto me"? Sorry Mjh29, this doctrine pushed me away from the Lord back in the 90's...and I believe it is a lie from Satan. I will pray for to desire truth, not just to be right.
I am finished on this thread. God bless you

Here is the problem with the English language.... Ok, one of the problems anyways. When Jesus said that, He did not speak it in English. He actually spoke that in the Koine Greek. English has a nasty habit of misinterpreting what the Greek really meant. Don't misunderstand, Im not downing the reliability of the English Bible, however I am saying that, I controversial cases such as this, it is best to go back to the original language. And what do we find when we do go back to the Greek? That, in some cases such as this, Jesus was not at all addressing the whole world at once, as in every human being. No, what He meant was that all KINDS of people would be drawn to Him, not just the Jews, but the Gentiles. Not just the free, but the slave as well. So, when Jesus was ascending into Heaven, He did indeed say He would draw EVERY CLASS OF MANKIND to Himself; He aint racist and He don't discriminate lol.

 

[Helen]

Since God calls everyone to repent and believe, there is no election.

Oh Ouch Nancy!! lol
So what did Paul mean when he said " Make your calling and election sure?"

Sometimes I feel like a am a long playing record. I will have to come up with a different term...many will soon not even know what a long playing record was!!

Anyway..Calling and Election has nothing to do with Salvation...but everything to do with " I go to prepare a place for you."

Paul was not afraid of losing his salvation, but was did not want to miss the mark...of the prize of the high calling in Christ. = his place.
Phil 3:14 "I press toward the mark, for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."
This has everything to do with Revelation 3.
The call to the overcomer's to overcome.

But, never mind, no worries, I have posted this so many times ...yet people are still so hung up with their salvation , and can see no further....
Time I quit and gave up on it, because it often frustrates me!!

I guess it is another one of those things where...a person either "sees it" and the lights come on, or they don't.

Bless you...H

 

[Nancy]

Oh Ouch Nancy!! lol
So what did Paul mean when he said " Make your calling and election sure?"

Sometimes I feel like a am a long playing record. I will have to come up with a different term...many will soon not even know what a long playing record was!!

Anyway..Calling and Election has nothing to do with Salvation...but everything to do with " I go to prepare a place for you."

Paul was not afraid of losing his salvation, but was did not want to miss the mark...of the prize of the high calling in Christ. = his place.
Phil 3:14 "I press toward the mark, for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."
This has everything to do with Revelation 3.
The call to the overcomer's to overcome.

But, never mind, no worries, I have posted this so many times ...yet people are still so hung up with their salvation , and can see no further....
Time I quit and gave up on it, because it often frustrates me!!

I guess it is another one of those things where...a person either "sees it" and the lights come on, or they don't.

Bless you...H

I believe that was part of a post I replied to a Calvinist with. I was speaking to the fact that how God calls ALL men unto Him not just a certain few, and also referring to individual election rather than Gentiles as a whole being grafted in...Helen, please feel free to correct me, I do value your input. as I do several others on here

 

[Helen]

So, do you still stand by your comment ( no matter who it was made to)

Quote:- "

Since God calls everyone to repent and believe, there is no election.

"

 

[Nancy]

So, do you still stand by your comment ( no matter who it was made to)

Quote:- " "

View attachment 3133

No, was there more to the post? It was totally in trying to refute individual election as opposed to corporate election (which is what I believe) just meaning that God calls all, not just an elite few but all people to Him. So, He calls and we choose to accept His free gift or throw it right back at Him. The elect IMO are ALL who choose to serve God. Am I making sense, lol?