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Who founded your church?

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by theefaith, Jan 3, 2021.

  1. Renniks

    Renniks Well-Known Member

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    Of course. We all believe what we are personally shown, don't we? If God speaks to me personally about something, that's way more convincing than someone on the internet telling me such and such.
     
  2. David H.

    David H. Active Member

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    You obviously do not know Old testament History, Here is a video to help you understand:
    A Remnant Priesthood (David Wilkerson) - YouTube

    Yes, Union, among believers, but not with the world and the kingdoms of this world as the RCC has done.

    Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. ( 2 Corinthians 6:14-18)

    Can you have union with a believer who believes in Christ Jesus, and holds to the Apostolic creed the same as you do, but does not believe in the Vatican and the Papacy as the one church, and sees it as a corrupt institution?
     
  3. David H.

    David H. Active Member

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    One of my favorite early church writings, I have read it many times. He was a disciple of John. the Apostolic church was largely a Hebrew church, after the destruction of the temple the apostolic church became the church of Ephesus, headed by John, and which in turn became the church of Smyrna the persecuted church which lasted and thrived till Constantine. I Believe in the church ages as the progressive revelation to the church, one builds upon the next. We are now living in the Laodicean age. Rome has a big part in that as do the reformation and Wesleyan fundamentalism and Pentecostalism. I do not discredit any of them, but see flaws in all of them, that lead to the next step in the growth of the church. That is where Unity comes from, not from concord with Belial, but with the unity of the Spirit. I consider myself a Laodicean, and we all who are believers in this day and age are.
     
  4. Backlit

    Backlit Well-Known Member

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    Mmm. Always easier to deal that way with the enemy rather than deal with the inner me. That's exactly how Democrats are dealing with reality... Shut down communication and all opposition regardless whether... And especially when... Truth is brought to light.
    You are doing what David did when he saw Uriah still sleeping at his door. Put him under the bus.
     
  5. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    you can’t be in the new covenant without baptism
     
  6. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    the didache teaching of the apostles 1st cent. The whole thing is posted under apologetics page
     
  7. Renniks

    Renniks Well-Known Member

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    Says you.
     
  8. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    only Peter and his successors have the keys, jurisdictional authority over the church
    The apostles have power to teach and bind and loose and administer the sacraments and forgive sins
     
  9. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    As was Ignatius. In Ignatius' letters you will recognizably find the catholic orthodox faith. And of course John himself warns us of those that abandon the community:

    Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that the antichrist was coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. Thus we know this is the last hour.


    They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number
    .

    That 'corrupt institution' recognizes all who have been Baptized into Christ as our brothers and sisters:

    818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers .... All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church

    Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText


    If one is not drinking from the One Cup, and eating from the One Loaf, that Jesus gave to John and the apostles, where are they?

    All are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

    Gloria in Excelcis Deo!
     
  10. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    says Jesus Christ the Bible and his church
    Mk 16:16 jn3:5
    1 cor 12:13

    OT pre-figured baptism

    Isaiah 52:15 So shall he sprinkle many nations;

    Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put withi n you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
    27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    New Testament

    Matt 28:19
    Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

    ( Disciples by baptism not faith alone)

    Mk 1:4
    John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

    Mark 16:16
    he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!

    Jn 1: 11
    He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (Baptism)

    John 1:26
    John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

    John 2:6
    And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)

    John3:5
    Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

    John 3:22
    After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)

    John 4:4
    When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

    John 14:17
    Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

    Act 2:38
    Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.(Baptism)

    Acts 8:36
    And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

    37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

    Philip preached Jesus and the result is justification by baptism!

    Acts 22:16
    And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

    Rom 3:24
    Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

    Rom 6:4
    Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

    Romans 6:3
    Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

    Acts 2:47
    Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

    1 Corinthians 12:13
    For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    Galatians 3:27
    For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

    Ephesians 1:13
    In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:5 
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

    Gal 4:19
    My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

    Titus 3:5
    Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (baptism)

    Heb 10:22
    Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

    1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

    1 Peter 1:22
    Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36

    Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (baptism rom 6:3-4)

    1 Pet 3:20
    Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

    21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
    (Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
    (Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
     
  11. Backlit

    Backlit Well-Known Member

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    Like the Papacy?
    What about Antioch. Pela?
     
  12. Backlit

    Backlit Well-Known Member

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    What he said^^^^^
     
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  13. Backlit

    Backlit Well-Known Member

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    In other words, the works do not bring them salvation, but their works are investigated to ascertain if they are saved. It is the same in any court room drama. You arrive either guilty or not guilty. But in Jesus' parable they plead not guilty but their works were discovered and proved otherwise. We also will by judged by our works. True Christians have already plead guilty and their guilt removed by Calvary. Their works attest to that transaction. The works are the evidence presented to the judge as to whether conversion was real
     
  14. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    The church still continues in her faithful bishops
     
  15. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    salvation is thru grace
     
  16. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    That's because there is NO answer to that question because it's a FALSE premise.
    It's not about how many works you do - it's about remaining faithful (Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

    A faithful person lives his life for the Lord - and when he stumbles, he aknowledges his offense to God and confesses his sin because he knows he will be forgiven.
    It's NOT about living a perfect life or who has done the most works - but if we don't REMAIN faithful, we cannot hope to be saved.

    And as for the ridiculous things you mentioned above - the Catholic Church has NEVER tught that we must walk on nails or flail ourselves or walk on our knees. This is a TEXTBOOK example of why I refer to dishonest people lik YOU as "anti-Catholics" - because you have to LIE to make your points.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
    theefaith likes this.
  17. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    Let’s go down to Hialeah and blow a few c’s

    you didn’t see this goober, what do ya mean I’m looking right at it!

    sure look like fresh money!
     
  18. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Thanks B5,

    Nope, I'm not presenting a theory. It's pretty simple: You and @Backlit seem to think that the Reformers were enlightened by God to discover that the teachings of The Church were heretical, wrong, not the truth, of satan etc. etc. (even though all those enlightened Reformers got a different message from God and disagreed with each other o_O )

    Soooo why did God...according to your theory... gradually enlighten the Reformers that killing heretics was wrong but quickly enlightened them into the truth about doctrine, dogma etc?? Also, the Reformers disagreed on what the "truth" of Scripture is sooooo why did God enlighten the Reformers to different truths??? They were all very confused and their teachings confused Christians. Who is the author of confusion kiddo????

    For 1,500 years before the Reformation there was One Church with One teaching. After the Reformation how many churches and teachings do we have now??


    Can you see how your theory makes no sense???
     
  19. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Lol.....thank you.
     
  20. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    In general I agree with you. (surprise)

    Scripture does not say that Marymog is the pillar and foundation of truth. It says The Church is. I don't decide what I personally believe to be the Truth when it comes to Scripture interpretation. The Church decides.....Just like Scripture says. I have found that Church. Have you?

    Mary
     
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