Who founded your church?

[Renniks]

@Renniks is also struggling to explain how we can fulfill Matthew 18:17 if the church is a invisible

The invisible church.
The invisible church is the true church, which only God can see: born-again believers, past, present, and future. Because not everyone who attends church or performs religious deeds is saved, the visible church includes unbelievers. The invisible church is comprised of the redeemed and sealed by God.

Now you want to claim everyone in your church is a true believer? You can not be that naive.

 

[marksman]

There is no invisible church

Only the one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors and those members of Christ by faith and baptism United with them, the communion of the saints
Jn 16:10

Ephesians 5:32
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The office of apostle that has the three fold office, to teach: to govern the church: and to sanctify by the sacraments or sacred oaths (promises) of the father! Acts 2:38-39 with ez 36:25-27 Heb 8:6

There is only one church which was founded by and through the shed blood of Jesus on the cross. Salvation comes through the blood and his lordship in our lives.

 

[Brakelite]

Then you don't know your Bible. How can anyone read the way Paul contrasts faith and works and think they are the same thing?

The contrast between faith and works depends on the motivation behind them. Good benevolent loving self sacrificial works born of a heart dedicated to Christ and recreated in His image, are merely the natural outworking of a heart filled with love for his fellow man. Those are the result of a faith that truly rests and believes in God's promises of His overcoming power in the life. That is truly grace experienced in the life. There is nothing in those works that reflect a desire to impress God, earn brownie points, or secure salvation. Through the grace and power of God such works are the nothing more nor less than the natural expression of a new creature. He likely may not even be aware he's doing them "When did we feed thee, clothe thee, visit thee in prison, give thee water".
Such works are then a reflection of the character formed within. A reflection of love and the work of the holy Spirit in the life. It has nothing to do with what denomination one belongs to. It has everything to do with relationship with Jesus. Once that kind of relationship is developed, and such is the result of true salvation because that is what we all will eventually be judged by... Character... Then if we are listening, Jesus will lead us to the church through which He can best teach us, grow us, and use is for His glory. Because this life we live isn't about us. It's about Him. And only Him and how we can best serve Him.

 

[marksman]

Illuminator, this is a pet peeve of mine, so I can't let it slip by... Calvin didn't the doctrine, and for the record, he didn't invent TULIP either. Its been years since I studied Calvin, and have forgotten much. However I distinctly remember that point.

In his book Institutes of Christianity, he wrote 3 chapters on the topic of predestination. From those books, others after his death developed the doctrine of OSAS and TULIP. as a sidenote, its a shame that those two doctrines (which weren't even his) along with the concept of predestination (he did believe in it, but he was not the first and it is supported by scripture) is what he's most remembered for. He wrote dozens of books touching on many things. But no one remembers those things.

Furthermore, what is commonly believed to be OSAS was never supported by Calvin. He was actually a "pious" man, or at least he tried to be. Little known fact: he was one of the first to actually state "grace doesn't give tou a license to sin".

So in short, Calvin himself wasn't a "Calvinist"!

Again, this is a personal pet peeve of mine and so it really doesn't matter much. It is, however, the truth.

As for Calvin, I believe he had a talent and a gift. He knew the Bible very well and was very knowledgeable on early church writings. He probably could make monkees of us all without google and Bible apps. He had a very keen mind and a hardcore dedication. However, while I admire his dedication, I am not a fan. Some of his behavior was hypocritical and no, I don't agree with all his teaching.

I should not worry if you do not agree with all his teaching as your salvation will not depend on how much of his teaching you believe.

 

[mjrhealth]

but not without the sacraments!

Oh my goodnes how far does the deceit go. Grace bt faith , end of story doesnt need your religion its doctrines nor its doings to save any man, how arrogant.

 

[mjrhealth]

You say the church is invisible.

The church isnt invisible, they are walking outside you church everyday, you are just to blind to see.

 

[Truther]

Saint....Let me show you why what you are teaching, wont work..... perfectly..

First, if you read Acts 2, it says that "3000 were added TO the Church".
So, to be added TO, means it was already there to receive them.
IT like the idea of going to church., as you can't go to it unless it already exists.
So, if you try to teach that the Church began with the "infilling" or with "" Tongues""", or during the Pentecostal event, then that is a problem, because you are teaching that the event of the Holy Ghost being given is the START of the Church.
However, Jesus already gave the Holy Spirit to the 11 Apostles when He "breathed on them" and said "receive the Holy Spirit". John 20
So, thats the same exact Holy Spirit that "poured out" at Pentecost, later.
See it?

This means, if you are really doing the math, then the church began with the first person who was redeemed by Faith.
That would be Abraham, the "father of all them who Believe".

But, im just being really specific, and its not going to harm anyone if you teach them that the church began at (Acts 2) Pentecost.....tho that is not actually or technically correct.

The church was to begin in Acts 2, as first instructed by Jesus here...

Acts 1:
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence....


8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you....


Acts 2:
2 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance....


37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.



It is really easy to get this.

 

[Brakelite]

The church was to begin in Acts 2, as first instructed by Jesus here...

Acts 1:
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence....


8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you....


Acts 2:
2 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance....


37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.



It is really easy to get this.

The church of God began in Genesis 3 with the promise of a Savior.
KJV Genesis 3:15
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
The law, the prophets, the gospels, Acts, are the story of God's dealings with His people, the church. You can't extract one short episode in history to the exclusion of all others.

 

[Truther]

The church of God began in Genesis 3 with the promise of a Savior.
KJV Genesis 3:15
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
The law, the prophets, the gospels, Acts, are the story of God's dealings with His people, the church. You can't extract one short episode in history to the exclusion of all others.

That was a prophecy of the 2nd coming of Christ.

C'mon, man!

 

[Brakelite]

That was a prophecy of the 2nd coming of Christ.

C'mon, man!

And all who believed that promise became the church.

 

[mjrhealth]

And all who believed that promise became the church.

Amen not a religion nor a denomination based on mens doctrines...

 

[theefaith]

The "church" is the Living Body of Christ.
He is its Head and Cornerstone.

Its not a building made with hands.
Its a Living Temple made with God's Grace.
Its mortar is the Living Blood of Jesus.
Its walls are the Truth and the Light.
Its Roof is the Shadow of the Almighty.
Its foundation is the Cross of Christ.
It exists as Eternal Life In Christ.

Seek ye first the invisible kingdom
Matt 6
Keys of an invisible kingdom
Matt 16:18

Matt 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
(The church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors!)

 

[theefaith]

Actually there are many gods.
EX 23:
[3] Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

there is only one God!
One true God uncreated and eternal!
False gods are not Gods but devils

 

[theefaith]

How clever....skipping Acts 2:38, 8:16, 10:46 and 19:5.

baptism is in the name of the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit
But the command to be baptized is in the name of Jesus

what does foreign languages have to do with your point?

 

[theefaith]

Yall can stick and trust in rome , as for me , ITS JESUS .

rome?
What does that mean?
Vatican?
What does that mean?

I trust in Christ and His church
Peter and his apostles wherever they are

 

[theefaith]

Roman Catholic
Constantine
300's
Rome

How have you been?

So you think Constantine invented Roman Catholic Church?

explain how that he called a council in nicea?

what is a council?
Gathering of the bishops of the church at the approval of the successor of Peter

so you see the bishops and the church already existed!

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Jn 10:16 one fold

 

[Truther]

And all who believed that promise became the church.

....all that obeyed Acts 2:38 were born into that future Millennial promise.

 

[theefaith]

Then you don't know your Bible. How can anyone read the way Paul contrasts faith and works and think they are the same thing?

because you don’t know what works is
You don’t know there is two things refered to as works

works of the law: legal term refering to ordinances of the mosaic covenant that are nailed to the cross

works as apart from grace and faith or works alone and that is what Paul and scripture are opposed to not good works ( prayer penance, practice of righteousness, fasting, alms, virtues, etc. ) done thru faith in grace after baptism into Christ Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing

 

[theefaith]

This verse isn't about baptism.

it is a direct reference to baptismal regeneration
See ez 36/25-27

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

 

[theefaith]

This verse isn't about baptism.

also acts 22:16