Who founded your church?

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BreadOfLife

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HAHA.

The RCC is founded and maintained on Papal decrees.
Not sure what "RCC" is - but the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ (Matt. 16:18) and maintained by the Holy Spirit (John 16:12-15).

Do your homework . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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The covenant is with the founder..Abraham.

God does not do millions and millions of individual covenants, as you are assuming.

The Jews just partook of the lone covenant.
Circumcision was entrance into the Covenant, my ignorant friend.

I didn't think you'd have an intelligent response . . .
 

Marymog

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but your doing it again, it wasnt us, it was the Prots.

look over there . . .dont look here.

im a baptist descended from Prots, they killed lots of people like i already said in the Ireland comment. now how hard was that?
Wrong again.I didn’t say don’t look here.....I said Protestants AND The Church.

Baptists are Protestants....

I don’t recall your “Ireland comment “ but I trust that you said it
 
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Marymog

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The covenant is with the founder..Abraham.

God does not do millions and millions of individual covenants, as you are assuming.

The Jews just partook of the lone covenant.
Circumcision was entrance into the Covenant. Individuals get circumcised....not all Jews since some are women
 
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jaybird

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Wrong again.I didn’t say don’t look here.....I said Protestants AND The Church.

Baptists are Protestants....

I don’t recall your “Ireland comment “ but I trust that you said it

my fault MM, you have to understand in my world "the church" is a group of people worshiping, not Catholic.
this one:
some of the worsts atrocities were carried out in Ireland. when the Irish were starving the Prot missionaries would offer them soup, but only if they converted. if they refused these "men of G-D" would have no problem watching them starve to death.
very ugly
 
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Behold

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6:3-4). Water is simply the tangible means that God uses.


You just committed the continuing universal deception that the CC teaches, as i had already stated.
And you got it right out of the CC corrupt "bible" that teaches in John 3 that you are born again "OF" water. That's the Douay-Rheims corrupted Bible teaching that you are using.
So, see that Deception??
You just confirmed it, again, as you've told it before, and you'll tell it again, as you are trained to do it.

= You just stated that the "tangible means" of regeneration is water, and that is the CC deception.
So, even in your defense, you have revealed your own deception while trying to hide what your "church" actually teaches.
No doubt its what you'll do again, as what else can you do, except edit your post to try to hide your dishonesty.

Here is a heads up for you....
The blood of Jesus is the ONLY "tangible means" of redemption.
THE BLOOD......never the water.
Got that?
And one more...
Salvation is : "Grace through faith", (Justification BY Faith) = without WATER, without works, without penance, without mary, is How God offers the "free Gift of salvation."
Bottom line.
 
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Renniks

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What is a Covenant? It is a BINDING agreement between 2 or more parties.
Tell me something, Eainstein - how did an 8-day-old baby enter into a Covenant by being circumcised?
Babies are innocent, baptized or not. Sin is an action that can only take place with understanding of right from wrong. Baptizing a baby doesn't guarantee he will be a believer. Circumcisism, like baptism, was a symbol. Circumcision of the penis never really promised a righteous position in God’s eyes, but was just a symbol which demonstrated the need for our love, faith, and dependance in God.

"Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing; but obeying the commandments of God is everything"
God never commanded infant baptism.
 

Illuminator

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John 3:3,5 – Jesus says, “Truly, truly, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” When Jesus said “water and the Spirit,” He was referring to baptism (which requires the use of water, and the work of the Spirit).

John 3:22 – after teaching on baptism, John says Jesus and the disciples did what? They went into Judea where the disciples baptized. Jesus’ teaching about being reborn by water and the Spirit is in the context of baptism.

John 4:1 – here is another reference to baptism which naturally flows from Jesus’ baptismal teaching in John 3:3-5.

Acts 8:36 – the eunuch recognizes the necessity of water for his baptism. Water and baptism are never separated in the Scriptures.

Acts 10:47 – Peter says “can anyone forbid water for baptizing these people..?” The Bible always links water and baptism.

Acts 22:16 – Ananias tells Saul, “arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins.” The “washing away” refers to water baptism.

Titus 3:5-6 – Paul writes about the “washing of regeneration,” which is “poured out on us” in reference to water baptism. “Washing” (loutron) generally refers to a ritual washing with water.

Heb. 10:22 – the author is also writing about water baptism in this verse. “Having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.” Our bodies are washed with pure water in water baptism.

2 Kings 5:14 – Naaman dipped himself seven times in the Jordan, and his flesh was restored like that of a child. This foreshadows the regenerative function of baptism, by water and the Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 44:3 – the Lord pours out His water and His Spirit. Water and the Spirit are linked to baptism. The Bible never separates them.

Ezek. 36:25-27 – the Lord promises He will sprinkle us with water to cleanse us from sin and give us a new heart and spirit. Paul refers to this verse in Heb. 10:22. The teaching of Ezekiel foreshadows the salvific nature of Christian baptism instituted by Jesus and taught in John 3:5, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21 and Acts 22:16.
SACRAMENT OF BAPTISM - Scripture Catholic
That's a lot of "deceptions".
 
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Illuminator

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Both Luther and Calvin, 2 primary founders of Protestantism, baptized infants. My question to objectors is: "Who was the first reformer to reform the former reformists?" And why it was never an issue for another 100 years?
 
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Renniks

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Both Luther and Calvin, 2 primary founders of Protestantism, baptized infants. My question to objectors is: "Who was the first reformer to reform the former reformists?" And why it was never an issue for another 100 years?
Luther and Calvin both still had some very Catholic leanings, yes. Doesn't mean they were correct.
The Anabaptists at least understood that baptism of babies was not biblical. A belief is not correct or incorrect because of when it becomes popular.

For centuries before the Reformation, baptismal regeneration was rejected by Bible-believing Christians, whom the Roman Catholic Church therefore persecuted, tortured and slaughtered by the millions.
The early Reformers such as Martin Luther were originally Catholics, and unfortunately, retained some Catholic dogmas, among them baptismal regeneration and infant baptism. These heresies are still held by some Protestant denominations today. The issue is a serious one. If baptism is essential for salvation, then to reject that gospel is to be damned. But if salvation is through faith in Christ alone, then to add baptism as a condition for salvation is to reject the true gospel.
Numerous verses declare that whosoever does not believe is lost, but not one verse declares that whosoever is not baptized is lost. Surely the Bible would make it clear that believing in Christ without being baptized cannot save if that were the case, yet it never says so! Instead, we have examples of those who believed and were saved without being baptized, such as the thief on the cross and the Old Testament saints (Enoch, Abraham, Joseph, Daniel, et al.), to whom Christian baptism was unknown.

This dogma of "falling away," like baptismal regeneration, also comes from Roman Catholicism. No Catholic can be certain he is saved; for salvation, which is by works in Catholicism, could be forfeited at any time by failure to continue to perform the works prescribed. Trent declares, "If anyone says that in order to obtain the remission of sins it is necessary... to believe with certainty...that his sins are forgiven him, let him be anathema....If anyone says that he will for certain...have that great gift of perseverance [in the faith] even to the end...let him be anathema."7 While rebaptism is not practiced in Catholicism, the sacraments of penance and the Mass are said to restore saving grace and are thus repeated endlessly.

If Jesus is re sacrificed at every Mass, how could he be said to have died once for all?

Christ never baptized anyone (Jn:4:2
)—very odd if baptism saves. The Savior of the world must have deliberately avoided baptizing to make it clear that baptism has no part in salvation. Yes, Christ said we must be "born [again] of water and of the Spirit" to be saved (Jn:3:5
), but it is unwarranted to assume that "water" here means baptism. To do so would contradict the wealth of Scripture we have seen which proves salvation is not by baptism.

Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus, a rabbi to whom "water" would not mean baptism (which was unknown in Jewish law) but the ceremonial cleansing of someone who had been defiled (Ex 30, 40; Lev 13, 15, etc.). And that is what Christ meant. His death would make it possible to "sanctify and cleanse [His church] with the washing of water by the word [of the gospel]" (Eph:5:25-27
). Christ said, "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken" (Jn:15:3
). Like Christ, Paul put water and the Spirit together, referring to the "washing of regeneration" and linking it with the "renewing of the Holy Ghost" (Titus:3:5
). We are born again by the Holy Spirit and by the Word or gospel of God, which is sometimes called "water" because of its cleansing power. As Peter said, we are "born again...by the word of God" (1 Pt 1:23).
Peter communicated to his Jewish audience in his Pentecost sermon: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" (Acts:2:38
). It is clear from the many other scriptures we've given that Peter wasn't saying that baptism saves, but that it offered a ceremonial cleansing uniquely applicable to his Jewish hearers. To be baptized was to be identified before the fanatical Jews of Jerusalem with this hated Jesus Christ as one's personal Savior.
 

Truther

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Not sure what "RCC" is - but the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ (Matt. 16:18) and maintained by the Holy Spirit (John 16:12-15).

Do your homework . . .
I did.

I found out the Catholics are supervised by Rome.

The Roman Catholic Church is the RCC.

Your boss sits on a throne in Rome, not heaven.
 

Truther

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Circumcision was entrance into the Covenant, my ignorant friend.

I didn't think you'd have an intelligent response . . .
Circumcision for their babies was an adult kept sign that the Jewish adults obeyed per being included in the Abrahamic covenant.

The babies had no say in it.

The babies became adults eventually, then they kept the covenant per their babies.

The RCC thinks it is the babies that keep the covenant, not the parents....LOL
 

Truther

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Circumcision was entrance into the Covenant. Individuals get circumcised....not all Jews since some are women
The Jews as a nation were keeping the Abrahamic covenant per circumcision of baby boys.

The RCC teaches circumcision is individualistic, not nationalistic.

This means the RCC baby girls need not be baptized.
 

Truther

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Repent and be baptized? In the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit
Is that what Peter said here?...


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Why did Peter say this?

Who would you rather obey...Peter or Jesus?

Or, what was Acts 2:38 REALLY telling us???
 

Billy Evmur

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Jesus said to Peter "thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it"

He said nothing about a succession, He did not say "and upon thy successors" thus the supposed unbroken chain breaks down at the first link because we have no record whatever of the primacy passing from Peter to anybody else.

A rock by definition is a immovable, irreplaceable, unchangeable foundation. Any body therefore who will be built upon this rock must have the same testimony as Peter, believe the same doctrines, follow the same traditions.

By this we see how far the Roman church has drifted from the true church.

Catholics must own up and take the blame for the schism of the 16th century. How could they have sunk so low as to sell forgiveness of sins for money?

If they had listened to Francis Assisi they would not have had to listen to Martin Luther.
 

theefaith

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I did.

I found out the Catholics are supervised by Rome.

The Roman Catholic Church is the RCC.

Your boss sits on a throne in Rome, not heaven.

there’s another church?

those who did not enter the ark with Noah died, and the church is the ark of salvation outside of all die eternal death
There is no other, Jn 10:16
The ark of Noah is a type of the holy church the ark of salvation

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
 

theefaith

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Is that what Peter said here?...


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Why did Peter say this?

Who would you rather obey...Peter or Jesus?

Or, what was Acts 2:38 REALLY telling us???

cant wait to hear
 

theefaith

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Jesus said to Peter "thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it"

He said nothing about a succession, He did not say "and upon thy successors" thus the supposed unbroken chain breaks down at the first link because we have no record whatever of the primacy passing from Peter to anybody else.

A rock by definition is a immovable, irreplaceable, unchangeable foundation. Any body therefore who will be built upon this rock must have the same testimony as Peter, believe the same doctrines, follow the same traditions.

By this we see how far the Roman church has drifted from the true church.

Catholics must own up and take the blame for the schism of the 16th century. How could they have sunk so low as to sell forgiveness of sins for money?

If they had listened to Francis Assisi they would not have had to listen to Martin Luther.

these are accusations not true facts
Indulgences have nothing to do with forgiveness of sins or salvation by the shilling

but apostolic succession:
Matt 28:19 teach all nations: how could the original apostles accomplish this? There must be successors!

make disciples by baptism:
There must be successors!

behold I Am with you (the apostles) until the end
There must be successors!
Acts one Judas was an apostle and Mathias succeded him
 

Marymog

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The Jews as a nation were keeping the Abrahamic covenant per circumcision of baby boys.

The RCC teaches circumcision is individualistic, not nationalistic.

This means the RCC baby girls need not be baptized.
Please show me that teaching. She will help you out: The Holy See