Who founded your church?

[theefaith]

The MEANS is not the ENDS.
That's where your confusion lies. The means is simply a tool for attaining the ends.

The Bible is crytal clear that we are to be Baptized with WATER and we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). THAT'S why Peter says that this WATER Baptism now SAVES us (1 Pet. 3:21). It's funny how you anti-Water Baptism people make your own rules as you go along.

Good luck with that when you're being judged . . .

As for yout idiotic remarks about the wording in the Douay-Rhiems Version - it's virtually the SAME as your fabled KJV:
John 3:5 (Douay)
Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be BORN AGAIN OF WATER and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:5 (KJV)
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be BORN OF WATER and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

only tangible means is the blood? Yes
But unless you were at the cross and the blood fell on you how do you receive it or it’s merits, you said by faith thru grace that’s true but it is applied to our souls in baptism
In baptism we are at the cross in his death
faith yes!
Grace yes! They the sacraments into the church

Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:5 
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.



The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!




The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

baptism makes us united with Christ in his church

 

[theefaith]

Scripture rejects faith alone
1 cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[theefaith]

New covenant testament kingdom vineyard

Jeremiah 31:31-34 ESV / 518 helpful votes
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Hebrews 9:15 ESV / 366 helpful votes
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Hebrews 8:13 ESV / 334 helpful votes
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Luke 22:20 ESV / 332 helpful votes
And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

Hebrews 8:6 ESV / 275 helpful votes
But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.

Hebrews 8:7-8 ESV / 221 helpful votes
For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

2 Corinthians 3:6 ESV / 204 helpful votes
Who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Jeremiah 31:33 ESV / 193 helpful votes
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

1 Corinthians 11:25 ESV / 186 helpful votes
In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”

Mark 14:24 ESV / 160 helpful votes
And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.

Jeremiah 31:31 ESV / 156 helpful votes
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,

Romans 8:1-39 ESV / 148 helpful votes
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. ...

Romans 7:6 ESV / 137 helpful votes
But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

Hebrews 13:20 ESV / 136 helpful votes
Now may the God of peace who brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, by the blood of the eternal covenant,

Hebrews 8:8 ESV / 130 helpful votes
For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

Romans 6:14 ESV / 129 helpful votes
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Matthew 26:28 ESV / 126 helpful votes
For this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Hebrews 8:10 ESV / 124 helpful votes
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Romans 11:27 ESV / 119 helpful votes
“and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”

 

[Truther]

What's the "Roman" Catholic Church?
The only Catholic Church I know of is "The Catholic Church" - and it's made up of Roman/Latins, Melkites, Byzantines, Maronites, Coptics and about 15 other Liturgical Rites.

Do your homework, dude . . .

Your Spiritual boss sits on the throne in the Vatican.

You are a Roman Catholic, in which you answer solely to him.

Don't give him no lip either.

 

[Truther]

Soooooo, the Jews could raise their children in the faith - and that was okay - but Catholics can't??
Is that it?

Your answers are getting more and moire idiotic . . .

Catholics are the equivalent of O.T. Jews?

I can buy that.

 

[Truther]

Can you show me where The Church teaches that "the babies keep the covenant"??? I can't find it. Here is a link to help you out: The Holy See

You teach babies are involuntarily baptized to replace O.T. circumcision.

You teach infant baptism as a replacement for an O.T. covenant, not a N.T. covenantal fulfillment per adults' baptism.

You therefore teach that babies are saved by someone else's decision.

You teach the parents and the priest are their proxy confessor and savior.

 

[Illuminator]

You teach babies are involuntarily baptized to replace O.T. circumcision.

Yes, we get that from Paul. Colossians 2:11-12

A fulfilment, yes. Replacement, no. Baptism is the new “circumcision” for all people of the New Covenant. Therefore, baptism is for babies as well as adults. God did not make His new Covenant narrower than the old Covenant. To the contrary, He made it wider, for both Jews and Gentiles, infants and adults.

You teach infant baptism as a replacement for an O.T. covenant, not a N.T. covenantal fulfillment per adults' baptism.

It's not a replacement, but a fulfilment. You have been lied to.
Gen. 17:12, Lev. 12:3 – these texts show the circumcision of eight-day old babies as the way of entering into the Old Covenant.
Job 14:1-4 – man that is born of woman is full of trouble and unclean. Baptism is required for all human beings because of our sinful human nature.

You therefore teach that babies are saved by someone else's decision.

PARENTS are the primary educators of the faith by a living example, schools and churches are secondary.

You teach the parents and the priest are their proxy confessor and savior.

If that's true, the same can be said about your minister. Have you ever heard of parental responsibility?
Luther and Calvin, 2 primary founders of Protestantism, baptized infants. The first group that I could find that taught "adult only" baptism were the Anabaptists, deemed heretical by both Protestants and Catholics. The splintering came from the Anabaptists to what we have today.

 

[Behold]

The Bible is crytal clear that we are to be Baptized with WATER

The bible is crystal clear that the dying thief on the Cross was not Water Baptized.
So, according to Cult theology, he was not in "in paradise" with Jesus, the day they both died, and according to Cult Cross Rejecting Theology, He is not in Heaven right now, because he was not " born again OF water"
So... according to the Cult teaching that water regenerates the soul, his wasn't.

So, lets stay away from the Cult teaching that teaches that water has any part in the salvation of a lost soul.
See, Cults are dangerous, and you want to be certain not to be deceived by one, breadoflife.
So, take care that you and your family are not so deceived.
As you dont want to be found on a Christian forum, contradicing the Cross with some Cult teaching that water saves, or that water is required to be saved (born again).

 

[theefaith]

Your Spiritual boss sits on the throne in the Vatican.

You are a Roman Catholic, in which you answer solely to him.

Don't give him no lip either.

1st He has to be the valid successor of St. Peter
2nd the one true church is universal
Jn 10:16

 

[Truther]

Yes, we get that from Paul. Colossians 2:11-12

A fulfilment, yes. Replacement, no. Baptism is the new “circumcision” for all people of the New Covenant. Therefore, baptism is for babies as well as adults. God did not make His new Covenant narrower than the old Covenant. To the contrary, He made it wider, for both Jews and Gentiles, infants and adults.
It's not a replacement, but a fulfilment. You have been lied to.
Gen. 17:12, Lev. 12:3 – these texts show the circumcision of eight-day old babies as the way of entering into the Old Covenant.
Job 14:1-4 – man that is born of woman is full of trouble and unclean. Baptism is required for all human beings because of our sinful human nature.
PARENTS are the primary educators of the faith by a living example, schools and churches are secondary.
If that's true, the same can be said about your minister. Have you ever heard of parental responsibility?
Luther and Calvin, 2 primary founders of Protestantism, baptized infants. The first group that I could find that taught "adult only" baptism were the Anabaptists, deemed heretical by both Protestants and Catholics. The splintering came from the Anabaptists to what we have today.

I said INVOLUNTARILY baptizing babies.

This is a FORCED covenant like the O.T.

The RCC FORCES one to be "saved" at birth.

This FORCED salvation debunks Acts 2:38 etc, entirely.

RCC aduldts..."men and brethren, what must we do?"......RCC, "Nothing, you did it as a newborn, you just don't remember".

 

[Truther]

1st He has to be the valid successor of St. Peter
2nd the one true church is universal
Jn 10:16

All born again Christians are saints.

There are countless millions of them.

Sainthood comes via obeying Acts 2:38.

It is that easy.

You are either a saint or an aint.

 

[theefaith]

I said INVOLUNTARILY baptizing babies.

This is a FORCED covenant like the O.T.

The RCC FORCES one to be "saved" at birth.

This FORCED salvation debunks Acts 2:38 etc, entirely.

RCC aduldts..."men and brethren, what must we do?"......RCC, "Nothing, you did it as a newborn, you just don't remember".

no it does not
It’s not salvation per se but justification then the child is raised in the faith of the apostles acts 2:42 and when at the age of reason chooses for itself
As for acts 2:38 read acts 2:39 this promise (sacrament) is also for your children and whole households were baptized and it no where says accept infants!

The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

An oath to sacramental life

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

 

[theefaith]

All born again Christians are saints.

There are countless millions of them.

Sainthood comes via obeying Acts 2:38.

It is that easy.

You are either a saint or an aint.

no not called to be saints!
Rom 1:7
And I refered to a cannonized saint declared a saint by the authority of Matt 16:18

 

[Truther]

no it does not
It’s not salvation per se but justification then the child is raised in the faith of the apostles acts 2:42 and when at the age of reason chooses for itself
As for acts 2:38 read acts 2:39 this promise (sacrament) is also for your children and whole households were baptized and it no where says accept infants!

The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

An oath to sacramental life

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

All that was written to people that could comprehend it, not babies.

You guys shove babies into a covenant that they cannot comprehend.

You should get them to watch "Baby Einstein" before trying to teach them the book of Hebrews.

 

[Truther]

no not called to be saints!
Rom 1:7
And I refered to a cannonized saint declared a saint by the authority of Matt 16:18

Peter died 2000 years ago.

God declares who is a saint via Acts 2:38.

Sinful RCC priests don't get a vote.

 

[theefaith]

All that was written to people that could comprehend it, not babies.

You guys shove babies into a covenant that they cannot comprehend.

You should get them to watch "Baby Einstein" before trying to teach them the book of Hebrews.

why does acts 2:39 explicitly say this promise is to your children???

 

[theefaith]

Peter died 2000 years ago.

God declares who is a saint via Acts 2:38.

Sinful RCC priests don't get a vote.

your private judgement is forbidden
It only produces thick black scales on your eyes of spiritual blindness with pride presumption and arrogance
Outer darkness

Lk 1:1-4 must be instructed by the apostles

 

[Truther]

why does acts 2:39 explicitly say this promise is to your children???

God pouring the promised Holy Ghost on newborn babies?

Pouring out on all flesh means dogs and cats?

I trow not.

C'mon, man.

 

[Truther]

your private judgement is forbidden
It only produces thick black scales on your eyes of spiritual blindness with pride presumption and arrogance
Outer darkness

Lk 1:1-4 must be instructed by the apostles

RCC priests do not have the say of who is saint or not, since they refuse to obey Acts 2:38 and will never qualify for themselves.

 

[Billy Evmur]

St Stephen proves you wrong for he taught with great wisdom and authority, Phillip the evangelist proves you wrong for Samaria was reached by him. The church at Antioch was formed by ordinary disciples before the apostles knew anything about it.

You just preach myths.