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Behold

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faith? Yes
Faith alone? No

WE the born again are justified by faith, without the deeds of the law, and without water.

See, its the BLOOD of Jesus that makes you acceptable to God and keeps you acceptable.
Not water, and not works.

How do you get the Blood of Jesus applied to you, is how you are born again.

"as many as BELIEVED".

"the work of God is THis....that you BELIEVE ON the ONE whom God sent".


So, do not teach that faith + water, or faith + works, is the Gospel.
And never never teach the Catholic Lie that Faith alone is NOT what God accepts to save you.
See, when you teach that lie, then you are contradicting God's "Gift of Salvation", and you are literally spitting on the Cross of Christ.
 

theefaith

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WE the born again are justified by faith, without the deeds of the law, and without water.

See, its the BLOOD of Jesus that makes you acceptable to God and keeps you acceptable.
Not water, and not works.

How do you get the Blood of Jesus applied to you, is how you are born again.

"as many as BELIEVED".

"the work of God is THis....that you BELIEVE ON the ONE whom God sent".


So, do not teach that faith + water, or faith + works, is the Gospel.
And never never teach the Catholic Lie that Faith alone is NOT what God accepts to save you.
See, when you teach that lie, then you are contradicting God's "Gift of Salvation", and you are literally spitting on the Cross of Christ.

no Jesus is the mediator not you
There is no way to enter a covenant by faith alone
There must be an outward sign
The promise or sacred oath of the father
Baptism

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
 
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theefaith

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Yours is the Jonny come lately gospel
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2 Corinthians 11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth anotherJesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

New Testament

Matt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

( Disciples by baptism not faith alone)

Mk 1:4
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Mark 16:16
he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!

Jn 1: 11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (Baptism)

John 1:26
John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6
And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)

John3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)

John 4:4
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Act 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.(Baptism)

Acts 8:36
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Philip preached Jesus and the result is justification by baptism!

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:5 
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Gal 4:19
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (baptism)

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
 

FHII

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The criminal on the Cross who acknowledged Jesus as his Savior was not water baptized, but was/is with Jesus in Paradise.
I realize that, and folks who think that water baptism is absolutely necessary can only stutter an answer that is based on their non Biblical inference. I am not one of those people. The thief was baptized into Christ. He probably barely knew him. But he knew enough to acknowledge who he was. He had a mustard seed size of faith, which was enough.
 
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BobVance

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I realize that, and folks who think that water baptism is absolutely necessary can only stutter an answer that is based on their non Biblical inference. I am not one of those people. The thief was baptized into Christ. He probably barely knew him. But he knew enough to acknowledge who he was. He had a mustard seed size of faith, which was enough.
Amen brother!!!!
 

FHII

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theefaith

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WE the born again are justified by faith, without the deeds of the law, and without water.

See, its the BLOOD of Jesus that makes you acceptable to God and keeps you acceptable.
Not water, and not works.

How do you get the Blood of Jesus applied to you, is how you are born again.

"as many as BELIEVED".

"the work of God is THis....that you BELIEVE ON the ONE whom God sent".


So, do not teach that faith + water, or faith + works, is the Gospel.
And never never teach the Catholic Lie that Faith alone is NOT what God accepts to save you.
See, when you teach that lie, then you are contradicting God's "Gift of Salvation", and you are literally spitting on the Cross of Christ.

then why not believe Him?
Mk 16:16 acts 8 faith and baptism

if it was just believing, how much believing is enough to save? Jn 3:16 presents a continual state of believing

Matt 24:13 endurance is required
1 cor 13 faith hope and charity
Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Revelation 2:19
I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Faith alone no!
You still have not answered my questions
 

theefaith

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Merits of Christ death and blood applied in baptism and the sacraments

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
 

theefaith

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I realize that, and folks who think that water baptism is absolutely necessary can only stutter an answer that is based on their non Biblical inference. I am not one of those people. The thief was baptized into Christ. He probably barely knew him. But he knew enough to acknowledge who he was. He had a mustard seed size of faith, which was enough.

Sacrament!

The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God!

Mark 16:16
he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
 

Marymog

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My understanding is that baptism is necessary, but it is the baptism (immersion) into Christ. Water baptism is ok. It was done in the Bible and it would be wrong to chastise any Christian who does it. It is equally wrong to chastise a Christian who has not gone through the ritual of water baptism.
Hi FHII,

Water baptism is ok??? If you get baptized...Kool.....if you don't.....that's kool also???? What man taught you that???

Scripture says '....in which a few....were saved through water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:'.

Breaking that passage down shows that:

Baptism is done with water (which destroys your baptism is immersion into Christ teaching that some man taught you).

How does this one simple passage help us know it was done with water? Because the passage clarifies that the water being used in the baptism is not washing away the dirt on your body! Further reading of Acts 22 makes it clear baptism washes away sin!

Baptism saves us! How do we know it saves us? Because the passage literally says "baptism doth also now save us". Yet your theory is if you get baptized....kool....if not that's kool also!!! If you get saved....kool...if not...kool also???

I think it would be kool if we follow the commandments of Jesus. Don't you? (Matthew 28:19)
 

Behold

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outside the church there is no salvation!)

THats a lot of Catholic you have up and running.

"water baptism".. ."one true church".... water, water, water, water, water.

What i notice about your theology, is that there is no blood of Jesus in it, and the Cross is rarely found.

Plenty of water tho.
 

Behold

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no Jesus is the mediator not you
There is no way to enter a covenant by faith alone
There must be an outward sign

Listen,

the New Testament is the New Covenant.
Jesus created this with His Blood.
Jesus IS the New Testament AND the New Covenant.

God said. "Faith is accepted as Righteousness", without works.
Water Baptism is a work......Its something you DO.
God's Salvation, is what JESUS DID FOR YOU, that GOD GIVES you, as "the GIFT of Salvation".

You dont need a water " sign", you need a born again Spirit, as that is the PROOF, and there is no other.
 

Marymog

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You are teaching the devil's gospel.

Let me explain.

The "devil's gospel" is what every cult teaches, that tries to exchange the BLood of Jesus, with works or water.

See, the Devil does not want anyone to believe that the Blood of Jesus SHED, is the only reason God will take you and keep you.

The Devil wants to get rid of the Blood of Jesus, by using a Satanic Gospel that tries to SUBSTITUTE Water, Commandments, Self Effort......in PLACE of The Blood of Jesus, as ALL God offers and accepts to save a person, and keep them saved.

That is the CULT's Gospel., that is the Devil's Gospel.

Dont believe that one, as it can cause you to never be born again, thinking you are.....
I always find it fascinating that you Protestants call any Catholic teaching the "devils gospel" and also call The Church a cult.

Yet you Protestants can teach 3 different interpretations of the same passage, call it the truth and that's ok because that is the truth the Holy Spirit guided you into. Simply fascinating....
 

Behold

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I always find it fascinating that you Protestants call any Catholic teaching the "devils gospel" and also call The Church a cult.
Yet you Protestants can teach 3 different interpretations of the same passage, call it the truth and that's ok because that is the truth the Holy Spirit guided you into. Simply fascinating....

What Gospel would the Devil preach?
What is his Gospel?

Its everything that substitutes for the Cross and the Blood of Jesus as the means to be saved and born again.

THe Devil's gospel is a FAITH Substitute....

Get rid of "FAITH ALONE", is what the Devil's Gospel is all about.

2 of your Catholic Brothers are all over the Forum, saying that God does not just accept FAITH, to save you.
He accepts WATER, self effort, and not just Faith.

So, THAT, is the devil's Gospel, as it has denied God's Blood Atonement, by changing it into Water + the Cross. The Cross + Works.
Or as one of your deceived brothers said today....>"you cant be saved outside of the Catholic Church".

So, really?
Paul wasn't a Catholic.
Jude wasn't a Catholic.
James, Mark, Thomas.....>NOPE.
Mary wasn't a Catholic...........really.
How about that?

I personally dont care if you worship mary, twist beads, or take the sacrament thinking you are eating the living Jesus.... and do penance year round..
That is just harmless cult stuff, that is found inside the walls of your religion.
But once you teach against the sanctity of the BLood of Christ in a way that offends the Blood Atonement and the Cross, by denying how God offers "the GIFT of Salvation"..., then CULT and DEVIL'S GOSPEL, is what you have become.
 
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Billy Evmur

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Actually - the Scriptures assure us that we as Christians are ALREADY SAVED (Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8)
This is Initial Salvation – God give us the initial grace to believe.

However, because Salvation is a LIFELONG process – it also says that I am BEING SAVED (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14). This is Ongoing Sanctification – God is sanctifying us throughout our life as we cooperate with his grace.

Because of this, I have the hope that I WILL BE SAVED (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).
This is Final Sanctification/Salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

Just as Paul tells us – we are “working out our salvation in fear and trembling” (Phil. 2:12), and have a hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).

He also tells us in Rom. 8:24-25:
“To hope is the way we are saved. But if we saw what we hoped for, there would no longer be hope: how can you hope for what is already seen? So we hope for what we do not see and we will receive it through patient, enduring faithfulness.”

Bottom line
- unless you cooperate with God's grace - you cannot hope to be saved . . .

This is not RCC doctrine.
 

Billy Evmur

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I’m glad you told me what The Church teaches about salvation. I am now enlightened. What you said is a lie ....but that is a discussion for another thread.

Nor does the RCC believe we may come directly to Christ
not preaching
Apologetics is a lay mans duty Jude 1:3

You need to apologise ... Jesus told us to preach.
 

Truther

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faith? Yes
Faith alone? No
Mark 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved
Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 13:11 Salvation nearer than when fist believed, how can salvation possibly be by faith alone???
They asked Peter, men and brethren, what must we do?

You tell those thousands anything but Acts 2:38.

Why?

Do you agree with Peter's answer or not?
 

FHII

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Hi FHII,

Water baptism is ok??? If you get baptized...Kool.....if you don't.....that's kool also???? What man taught you that???

Scripture says '....in which a few....were saved through water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:'.

Breaking that passage down shows that:

Baptism is done with water (which destroys your baptism is immersion into Christ teaching that some man taught you).

How does this one simple passage help us know it was done with water? Because the passage clarifies that the water being used in the baptism is not washing away the dirt on your body! Further reading of Acts 22 makes it clear baptism washes away sin!

Baptism saves us! How do we know it saves us? Because the passage literally says "baptism doth also now save us". Yet your theory is if you get baptized....kool....if not that's kool also!!! If you get saved....kool...if not...kool also???

I think it would be kool if we follow the commandments of Jesus. Don't you? (Matthew 28:19)
Actually 1 Peter 3:20-21 proves my point when read properly. Noah and his household were saved by water: not baptized in water. They were saved because (unlike everyone else) they were above the water. Furthermore, that was mentioned as an analogy to something else (which is shown when Peter calls it "a like figure").

When read properly we see that Peter is saying that baptism saves us by the ressurection of Jesus Christ (which otherwise noted as being the answer of a good conscience). He even says it isn't the putting away of the filth of the flesh (that's what water does), so he notes he isn't talking about water immersion. Reading chapter 4, he gets more in depth of what the answer of a good conscience means.

Also consider that baptism came in many forms. John the Baptist said Jesus would baptise with the Holy Ghost and with fire (Matthew 3:11). Jesus asks James and John (and answers for them) if they are able to be baptized with the baptism he is baptized with, and he clearly isn't talking about water (Matthew 20:22-23). Paul said that when we are baptized into Christ we are baptize into his death (Romans 6:3) and also have put on Christ (Galatians 3:7). Also, Jesus said that while John baptized with water, those that went to the upper room would be baptized with the Holy Ghost in Acts 1:5 (in which he clearly contrasts the two). And let us not forget Paul also said that we would be clensed by the washing of water by the word (Eph 5).

While we see in Eph 4:5 that there is one baptism, we see from the scriptures above the are actually many ways and meanings of baptism. So when it says "one baptism" it means only one that matters. Given the choice between the physical water baptism or the spiritual baptism into Christ (by the Holy Spirit), I will go with the latter.

So to answer what man taught me this.... Well, several actually: Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul, Luke and Peter.
 
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Truther

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Actually 1 Peter 3:20-21 proves my point when read properly. Noah and his household were saved by water: not baptized in water. They were saved because (unlike everyone else) they were above the water. Furthermore, that was mentioned as an analogy to something else (which is shown when Peter calls it "a like figure").

When read properly we see that Peter is saying that baptism saves us by the ressurection of Jesus Christ (which otherwise noted as being the answer of a good conscience). He even says it isn't the putting away of the filth of the flesh (that's what water does), so he notes he isn't talking about water immersion. Reading chapter 4, he gets more in depth of what the answer of a good conscience means.

Also consider that baptism came in many forms. John the Baptist said Jesus would baptise with the Holy Ghost and with fire (Matthew 3:11). Jesus asks James and John (and answers for them) if they are able to be baptized with the baptism he is baptized with, and he clearly isn't talking about water (Matthew 20:22-23). Paul said that when we are baptized into Christ we are baptize into his death (Romans 6:3) and also have put on Christ (Galatians 3:7). Also, Jesus said that while John baptized with water, those that went to the upper room would be baptized with the Holy Ghost in Acts 1:5 (in which he clearly contrasts the two). And let us not forget Paul also said that we would be clensed by the washing of water by the word (Eph 5).

While we see in Eph 4:5 that there is one baptism, we see from the scriptures above the are actually many ways and meanings of baptism. So when it says "one baptism" it means only one that matters. Given the choice between the physical water baptism or the spiritual baptism into Christ (by the Holy Spirit), I will go with the latter.

So to answer what man taught me this.... Well, several actually: Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul, Luke and Peter.
One must be buried(baptized) with him to resurrect with him.

If one is not baptized, they cannot resurrect with him.

That is what saved means.

It is all about resurrecting, and baptism is our qualifier.