Who founded your church?

[BarneyFife]

No -I simply don't come here unprepared - and I expect the same from anybody who debates here.

Aw, come on, 17 years? You got somethin' goin' on.

 

[BarneyFife]

Because I expect people who come to a debate to come PREPARED, as I am.
I don't engage in ANY conversation unless I have done my homework.

That's why I assume that whenever a person comes here to debate me and spreads blatant falsehoods about MY Church - that they are lying.
If you come to a debate board to talk about things you don't know about - then perhaps you should take some time OFF and do some homework until you DO . . .

But then you couldn't be the winner!

 

[BreadOfLife]

But then you couldn't be the winner!

There's just NO excuse for coming to a debate armed with rumors . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Isn't he charming?

Nope - just informed.

 

[BarneyFife]

There's just NO excuse for coming to a debate armed with rumors . . .

You just never lighten up, then?

 

[BreadOfLife]

You just never lighten up, then?

There is a time for levity - and there is a time for telling the truth.
When I engage in a debate about what others believe - I don't tell lies and neither should YOU.

If I don't know enough about what they believe - I eith stay out of it - or I do my homework to get the facts.
If everybody here did that - there wouldn't be HALF of the arguments . . .

 

[BarneyFife]

O

There is a time for levity - and there is a time for telling the truth.
When I engage in a debate about what others believe - I don't tell lies and neither should YOU.

If I don't know enough about what they believe - I eith stay out of it - or I do my homework to get the facts.
If everybody here did that - there wouldn't be HALF of the arguments . . .

Okay, okay.

 

[BarneyFife]

@BreadOfLife just liked one of my posts. I'm feeling faint. You can take it back, but I saw it with my own beady little eyes.

 

[FHII]

It seems to me there is a big difference in being "wrong" and "lying". One seems to be not knowing the truth and the other is denying the truth, even when you know it. One is unfortunate, the other is criminal (though that may be a bit harsh, but for lack of a better term, its all I can come up with).

It seems to me if you want to say someone lied when they are simply wrong on something you are way too harsh, setting yourself up to be a hypocrite. And most likely you are judging them based on your own perceptions and biases (which we all have).

While I haven't been active in the last six months until recently, I used to find people making up historical facts often. In fact, I have recently done so in this thread. I would find they had no historical accounts for what they said and find historical facts which countered their claims. I am not patting myself on the back for that as I have been wrong at times as well. But I never called them a liar and never said they lied. They were wrong and every once in a while they would retract their error.

Some folks ought to think about this...

 

[David H.]

My question for you: can you humble yourself and submit to the correction of your brethren (the Church)?

Would you submit to a church that is run by Nicolaitans?
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (2 Corinthians 6:15-16)

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. (James 4:7-10)

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. (Revelation 3:19)

Can you hear a rebuke from the LORD? He Loves those whom he rebukes... think about that.

 

[Philip James]

Would you submit to a church that is run by Nicolaitans?

There hasn't been a community of 'Nicolaitans' in almost 2000 years. They have long since been lost in the dustbin of history...

I find it curious, that you can acknowledge the Church in Smyrna yet refuse to allow yourself to be corrected by Antioch whom Smyrna commends...

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. (Revelation 3:19)

Can you hear a rebuke from the LORD? He Loves those whom he rebukes... think about that.

Indeed HE does. Pray for me brother as I shall you...

Peace be with you!

 

[mjrhealth]

How do Seventh-day Adventists send people to prison and death?

Same as every religion, cept you put Judgment of the law over them too. You are a slave to your religion and you refuse to leave it. Christ came to set you free, but you would rather prison.

 

[BarneyFife]

Same as every religion, cept you put Judgment of the law over them too. You are a slave to your religion and you refuse to leave it. Christ came to set you free, but you would rather prison.

Just as I thought--religion is the devil.
And you are a slave to your anti-religionism.

 

[BarneyFife]

Same as every religion, cept you put Judgment of the law over them too. You are a slave to your religion and you refuse to leave it. Christ came to set you free, but you would rather prison.

Why would I leave something that's given me a clearer picture of Jesus than I ever dreamed possible? And how about a non-non-answer for once?

 

[mjrhealth]

Just as I thought--religion is the devil.
And you are a slave to your anti-religionism.

Christ you know the Shepherd of the Sheep. My sheep hear my voice, there is a reason why He says that,

Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

so who will it be, religion or Christ, who is it you are listening too. YE Jesus upset the religious too. Fine with that.

 

[mjrhealth]

Why would I leave something that's given me a clearer picture of Jesus than I ever dreamed possible? And how about a non-non-answer for once?

Because its given you the SDA version of Jesus just as every religion gives there people there distorted ver of Jesus, the question is, is your religion better than Jesus, what does it have that HE cannot give you, Life, Hope, salvation??? That you cannot get from religion. Ever heard of HMV, old radio company, has a pic of a dog ,next to and old gramaphone, listening for His masters voice. Dont you want to hear Himor wpould you rather teh voice of strangers
.

 

[David H.]

There hasn't been a community of 'Nicolaitans' in almost 2000 years. They have long since been lost in the dustbin of history...

Nicolaitanism is a distinguishing between the priestly class and the Laity. it is alive and well in the Catholic church and is protected by the dogma of the catholic church which you and others here are so anxious to promote, and desire for us to submit to. It is not just a first century cult, but an attitude that shows its head up over and over again in the church, and is used by Charismatic leaders to manipulate and control the masses into following them. It is the cunning craftiness of men that Paul speaks in Ephesians 4:13. It is the same problem he addressed in the Corinthian Church (1 Corinthians 3) it is based on two things, leaders who rule over the laity and a laity who wants to be led so as to not have to bear the responsibility of the Great commission themselves, and can remain suckling on the breast of the mother church.

So you see, Nicolaitanism is alive well and thriving in the RCC, as it is in the other churches of men, But it is not thriving in the true church of God, which consists of those who have been weened from the breast. It is a doctrine that lives in the very calling of the church the Mother church, a word many like to remind us of here. It can be seen in the facts of church history which refused to translate scriptures or encourage literacy in its laity for hundreds of years, That to this day says only the priestly class can sanctify bread and wine, All of which is contrary to what Jesus taught, what Paul taught, what Peter taught, and what all the apostles taught, which is that we are all a royal priesthood, we are all a part of the temple, we are all called to become sanctified and Holy, and we are all accountable to God, not to men. The priestly class has made themselves a mediator between God and man when we have only one mediator, the man Christ Jesus, thus these Nicolaitans are robbing glory that is Christ's and keeping the masses from the right relationship with God the Father, that the new covenant set up. These Nicolaitan doctrines are so ingrained in your thinking that you cannot even see them as such. The ultimate manifestation of that blindness is that you cannot see how your religion fits perfectly the description of the harlot found in revelation 17, which drew your ire to comment to me in the first place. A Hard pill to swallow, But one that protestants must also consider for the harlot is the mother of other harlots which is to say Protestantism, which many Protestant churches are unwilling to see as well. Nicolaitnaism is not just a Catholic Problem but a Human nature problem and doctrine built around that fallen nature of man. It is doctrine not just a sect that thrives to this day just like Gnosticism's doctrine thrives to this day, and is not just a first century problem addressed by the apostle John.

Read again, Matthew 23:4-12, this is how Christ set up his church. Yes there are elders and young believers that one feeds milk to, but the goal is to get all the faithful to digest meat, as the Author of Hebrews Laments in Hebrews 5:12-14.

 

[BreadOfLife]

It seems to me there is a big difference in being "wrong" and "lying". One seems to be not knowing the truth and the other is denying the truth, even when you know it. One is unfortunate, the other is criminal (though that may be a bit harsh, but for lack of a better term, its all I can come up with).

It seems to me if you want to say someone lied when they are simply wrong on something you are way too harsh, setting yourself up to be a hypocrite. And most likely you are judging them based on your own perceptions and biases (which we all have).

While I haven't been active in the last six months until recently, I used to find people making up historical facts often. In fact, I have recently done so in this thread. I would find they had no historical accounts for what they said and find historical facts which countered their claims. I am not patting myself on the back for that as I have been wrong at times as well. But I never called them a liar and never said they lied. They were wrong and every once in a while they would retract their error.

Some folks ought to think about this...

No - the problem with anti-Catholicicm is that it has been around for several centuries - and people tend to regurgitate old, debunked myths and lies.

If you come to a debate board to discuss what Catholic believe and teach - the do your homework because there are too many educated Catholics here that will immediately put you in your place.

Besides - when you regurgitate a lie, whether you know it's a lie or not - you are JUST as responsible as the person who it originated from.

 

[Philip James]

Nicolaitanism is a distinguishing between the priestly class and the Laity.

Dear David,

Again, that is pure speculation with no evidence to substantiate it. On the contrary, I offered teaching from the Bishop of Antioch (circa 100 AD) that demonstrated the role of the bishop in the Church. Here is some more from Ignatius:

Wheresoever the bishop shall appear, there let
the people be; even as where Jesus may be, there is
the universal Church. It is not lawful apart from the
bishop either to baptize or to hold a love-feast; but
whatsoever he shall approve, this is well-pleasing also
to God; that everything which ye do may be sure and
valid.

St. Ignatius of Antioch to the Smyrnaeans (Lightfoot translation)


Further, with the Church in Rome, the Church in Alexandria and the Church in Constantinople we have 3, 2000 year old living witnesses to this Truth. Where is the 2000 year old Christian community that says otherwise?

Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted.

That to this day says only the priestly class can sanctify bread and wine

ahh, now we get to it... you would claim the authority to preside over the sacrifice yourself?

Here again is St. Ignatius:

Be ye careful therefore to observe one eucharist
(for there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ and
one cup unto union in His blood; there is one altar,
as there is one bishop, together with the presbtery
and the deacons my fellow-servants), that whatsoever
ye do, ye may do it after God.

St. Ignatius of Antioch to the Philadelphians (Lightfoot translation)

Now I ask you honestly, why would anyone listen to your fanciful tales rather than one who learned these things from the apostles and was installed by them as the Bishop of Antioch?

Brother, you need to lay it all down and listen to what the Spirit has taught the Church for 2000 years..

The Truth does not change!

Peace be with you!

 

[Renniks]

You're arguing in circles because we ALREADY went over this.

I stated several posts back that it is NOT about being "perfectly" obedient. It's about STRIVING to be obedient in our journey of faith so that whe we DO satumble - we know that we must be repentant in order to be forgiven.
Luther was WRONG about that. Our future sins are NOT automatically forgiven if we do not repent of them after having committed them.

Any true believer will be repentant because the spirit will convict him of sin. But even repentance doesn't earn us any points. It's all grace.