Who Goes to Heaven.....and What Will They Do There?

[Curtis]

I asked AJ in an earlier post to give some supportive text that puts the Sons of God existing at the cosmic creation, or even some scripture supporting this idea. An individual in the Old Testament referenced as a son of God?

Angels are called sons of God in Job.

Angels existed before the creation of the physical universe.

Satan existed before Adam and Eve.

 

[Curtis]

Narrow is the gate and their be few that find it.

Wide is ? If you did once call on the Lord you are saved ?

One who calls on the Lord Jesus Christ all the time, for the rest of ones life may be saved, it's not a one off deal. only the Devil and Satanist do deals in regards to God.
There is no Deal ! you abide in Christ Jesus or you don't. you are one with him, or your not of him or for him and if you are as such you are of the Devil, just making worldly claims, that are of this world. One must be truly born again and one who truly is has the Holy Spirit as their guide, one has eyes to see and ears to hear our Lord and Saviour. one never goes about boasting of what they have done ! they give all to the workings in Jesus Christ.

Look what we did in your name they said to Jesus ? but Jesus said he never knew them ! They were workers of Man, This world !
When you see people boasting, look what our Church has done, that's their work.
But Gods works are different, they come from enlightenment and progress outwardly in Grace, they bear the key fruit of God.

In Ezekiel, not a book of the law of Moses, it gives the principle that if a righteous man stops living righteously. God forgets they were ever righteous, and another verse says God erases them from His book, thus God, and Jesus forgets they knew Christians deceived by OSAS into living sinfully, thinking God won’t care.

Eze 3:20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Thus their actions of casting out demons, and doing things in His name, and their prior salvation are forgotten, and Jesus never knew them, and casts them into hell.

 

[Waiting on him]

Angels are called sons of God in Job.

Angels existed before the creation of the physical universe.

Satan existed before Adam and Eve.

I believe Jesus Christ to be the first Son of God who in turn gave us the power to become the Sons of God.

 

[Curtis]

I believe Jesus Christ to be the first Son of God who in turn gave us the power to become the Sons of God.

Angels are created sons of God. Christians become ADOPTED sons of God. Jesus is the only BEGOTTEN Son of God.

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

When we receive Jesus to become a son of God, John 1:12, we are adopted as sons.

 

[Curtis]

Narrow is the gate and their be few that find it.

Wide is ? If you did once call on the Lord you are saved ?

One who calls on the Lord Jesus Christ all the time, for the rest of ones life may be saved, it's not a one off deal. only the Devil and Satanist do deals in regards to God.
There is no Deal ! you abide in Christ Jesus or you don't. you are one with him, or your not of him or for him and if you are as such you are of the Devil, just making worldly claims, that are of this world. One must be truly born again and one who truly is has the Holy Spirit as their guide, one has eyes to see and ears to hear our Lord and Saviour. one never goes about boasting of what they have done ! they give all to the workings in Jesus Christ.

Look what we did in your name they said to Jesus ? but Jesus said he never knew them ! They were workers of Man, This world !
When you see people boasting, look what our Church has done, that's their work.
But Gods works are different, they come from enlightenment and progress outwardly in Grace, they bear the key fruit of God.

That a believer can fall away and be lost again, is biblical fact.

Peter even wrote that our calling and ELECTION is not sure, until we MAKE it sure, by adding to our faith the fruit he lists, else we can fall, and not enter into heaven.

Jesus warned the church at Sardis that they were DEAD, that they’d defiled their white robes (which are the righteousness of saints) and needed to repent and overcome, or he’d blot their names from the book of life.

Jesus missed getting the OSAS memo.

 

[Curtis]

In Hebrews here, Paul is addressing Jewish Christians who are being tempted to go back to Judaism...included in that was the worship of angels. His various points highlight the supremacy of Jesus....this is the context.

As part of the context, it says that the purpose of angels is to be ministering spirits to the heirs of salvation.

Psa 34:7 The angel of the LORD encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them.

 

[Curtis]

Point is, if we are seated in Christ in the right hand and He is in heaven at the right hand of the Father…… then we’re in heaven safe and sound.

Except Jesus doesn’t stay in heaven.

He will return to earth and set up His eternal kingdom, in Jerusalem, sitting on David’s throne, forever, and all the redeemed will live in the city New Jerusalem with Him.

 

[quietthinker]

Except Jesus doesn’t stay in heaven.

He will return to earth and set up His eternal kingdom, in Jerusalem, sitting on David’s throne, forever, and all the redeemed will live in the city New Jerusalem with Him.

I hope the sewerage system is up to scratch!

 

[Aunty Jane]

There you have it - no one will be in heaven but the angels - heaven comes down to earth, and we dwell there with God and Jesus, on the new earth, in the New Jerusalem.

I cannot see where Jesus transfers all those prepared 'abodes' in heaven down to the earth (John 14:2-3)......what is the point of being raised as spirit beings if they are only going to live on earth?
God can dwell with his people in the same way he dwelt with Israel.....he does not have to be physically present because human beings could not survive the experience. He will have his earthly representatives to guide and direct his earthly servants.

Those elite 144,000 that the watchtower thinks will be in heaven for eternity, won’t be there, either.

We don't have any "elite" members in our ranks....only servants with different destinations and different roles.

We will allow God to decide who will be there and who won't....you might just be surprised...

 

[Aunty Jane]

Yes, per Revelation 3:12, the place Jesus went to prepare for us, the 1500 mile long New Jerusalem, comes down to earth, where all those redeemed will dwell, with God and Jesus, forever.

I hope you realize that the New Jerusalem is a cube.....that's not just 1500 miles long....its also 1500 miles high, so it cannot be on earth....it wouldn't fit.

 

[JohnPaul]

I hope you realize that the New Jerusalem is a cube.....that's not just 1500 miles long....its also 1500 miles high, so it cannot be on earth....it wouldn't fit.

Are you talking about the Black Cube of Saturn Aunty Jane?

 

[Curtis]

I cannot see where Jesus transfers all those prepared 'abodes' in heaven down to the earth (John 14:2-3)......what is the point of being raised as spirit beings if they are only going to live on earth?
God can dwell with his people in the same way he dwelt with Israel.....he does not have to be physically present because human beings could not survive the experience. He will have his earthly representatives to guide and direct his earthly servants.


We don't have any "elite" members in our ranks....only servants with different destinations and different roles.

We will allow God to decide who will be there and who won't....you might just be surprised...

The city new Jerusalem is 1500 miles long and high and wide, it’s a building, and in that building that we will live in on the new earth in the city new Jerusalem, is all those rooms Jesus went to prepare for us. The whole city is that place.

Why are souls in heaven if they are only going to come back to earth and be reunited with their bodies? It’s because souls don’t die, the bodies do, and all the souls have to be kept somewhere before the resurrection, since they don’t sleep in the dirt - so they go to heaven to await that day.

And before Jesus came and atoned for sins, no one could go to heaven, and that’s why there were two compartments in the heart of the earth that I discussed before, I know you’ve seen those posts, where the souls of the righteous Old Testament dead were held until Jesus came and atoned for our sins, emptied out Paradise when rose and now it’s in heaven.

What do you mean you can’t see Jesus taking those souls with him from heaven? I gave the relevant first Thessalonians four verse, that clearly says that he will bring us WITH Him when He comes to resurrect the dead, in the post you are commenting on.

 

[Curtis]

I hope you realize that the New Jerusalem is a cube.....that's not just 1500 miles long....its also 1500 miles high, so it cannot be on earth....it wouldn't fit.

Of course it would fit, the earth is 24,000 miles in circumference.

And revelation 21 clearly says it comes down to earth out of heaven.

 

[dev553344]

I see Christians all the time taking for granted that they are going to heaven....but what makes you think so?

Some questions......
1) If you think that you are heaven bound, what do you imagine that you will do in heaven that you cannot do on earth?

2) Are all Christians going to heaven?

3) Why do you think humans are going to heaven when God made us to live forever on earth?

4) What is the purpose of taking humans to heaven when God has millions of angels already there, none of whom needed life on earth to qualify?

Help me understand your reasoning.....scripturally.

Good points. I think there is a heaven and Jesus will judge who goes there.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Are you talking about the Black Cube of Saturn Aunty Jane?

No, this is “New Jerusalem”, described as “heavenly Jerusalem” because it is a symbolic city in heaven whose dimensions would not fit on earth.

“Why could “New Jerusalem” not be a city in the Middle East?

Only a symbolic city could have the dimensions and splendor of New Jerusalem. Its base was foursquare, about 555 km (345 mi) on each side, or about 2,220 km (1,379 mi) completely around, that is, 12,000 furlongs. Being a cube, the city was also as high as it was long and wide. No man-made city could ever reach that far into “outer space.” Round about was a wall 144 cubits (64 m; 210 ft) high. The wall, itself constructed of jasper, in turn rested on 12 foundation stones, precious stones of great beauty—jasper, sapphire, chalcedony, emerald, sardonyx, sardius, chrysolite, beryl, topaz, chrysoprase, hyacinth, and amethyst. On these 12 foundation stones were engraved the names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb. The city proper within these beautiful walls was no less glorious, for it was described as “pure gold like clear glass,” having a broad way of “pure gold, as transparent glass.”—Re 21:12-21.”

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003242

These descriptions are not of anything earthly.....human terminology does not do it justice. Imagine what John was trying to describe.....

 

[Aunty Jane]

Of course it would fit, the earth is 24,000 miles in circumference.

And revelation 21 clearly says it comes down to earth out of heaven.

It’s rulership comes down to the earth....it is a heavenly government with earthly subjects bringing sinful mankind, redeemed by Christ’s blood, back into reconciliation with their God.

It’s whole purpose is to restore what Adam lost for his children, removing suffering, pain and death from the human race. (Revelation 21:3-4)
When God’s Kingdom rules the earth, God’s will can then “be done, on earth as it is in heaven”....it’s what we have been praying for all along.

 

[quietthinker]

The city new Jerusalem is 1500 miles long and high and wide, it’s a building, and in that building that we will live in on the new earth in the city new Jerusalem, is all those rooms Jesus went to prepare for us. The whole city is that place.

Why are souls in heaven if they are only going to come back to earth and be reunited with their bodies? It’s because souls don’t die, the bodies do, and all the souls have to be kept somewhere before the resurrection, since they don’t sleep in the dirt - so they go to heaven to await that day.

And before Jesus came and atoned for sins, no one could go to heaven, and that’s why there were two compartments in the heart of the earth that I discussed before, I know you’ve seen those posts, where the souls of the righteous Old Testament dead were held until Jesus came and atoned for our sins, emptied out Paradise when rose and now it’s in heaven.

What do you mean you can’t see Jesus taking those souls with him from heaven? I gave the relevant first Thessalonians four verse, that clearly says that he will bring us WITH Him when He comes to resurrect the dead, in the post you are commenting on.

I s'pose all the souls come in handy as bricklayers and painters and putting in the sewerage system.....and of course someones got to dig the foundation....I mean, do they have excavators or is it pick and shovel work.....can't just have those souls piled up under the altar over the millennia.....unless of course its a verrrry big altar.....they're probably in layers equally symmetrical, 1500 x 1500 x 1500
....and who wants to live in the centre of the cube?....no views, no windows....having to rely on air conditioning?

WAKE UP guys.....this language is figurative!.....I hope you don't eat green blackberries when they're red!.....and who throws anybody under the bus?
.....and was Jesus promoting cannibalism at the last supper?

 

[JohnPaul]

No, this is “New Jerusalem”, described as “heavenly Jerusalem” because it is a symbolic city in heaven whose dimensions would not fit on earth.

“Why could “New Jerusalem” not be a city in the Middle East?

Only a symbolic city could have the dimensions and splendor of New Jerusalem. Its base was foursquare, about 555 km (345 mi) on each side, or about 2,220 km (1,379 mi) completely around, that is, 12,000 furlongs. Being a cube, the city was also as high as it was long and wide. No man-made city could ever reach that far into “outer space.” Round about was a wall 144 cubits (64 m; 210 ft) high. The wall, itself constructed of jasper, in turn rested on 12 foundation stones, precious stones of great beauty—jasper, sapphire, chalcedony, emerald, sardonyx, sardius, chrysolite, beryl, topaz, chrysoprase, hyacinth, and amethyst. On these 12 foundation stones were engraved the names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb. The city proper within these beautiful walls was no less glorious, for it was described as “pure gold like clear glass,” having a broad way of “pure gold, as transparent glass.”—Re 21:12-21.”

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003242

These descriptions are not of anything earthly.....human terminology does not do it justice. Imagine what John was trying to describe.....

Sounds Beautiful Aunty Jane, sorry I got it confused with the Satanic Cube on Saturn, hence what the Muslims worship here on Earth the Kaaba in Mecca which is a representation of the Saturn cube.

Thank you for explaining.

 

[Curtis]

It’s rulership comes down to the earth....it is a heavenly government with earthly subjects bringing sinful mankind, redeemed by Christ’s blood, back into reconciliation with their God.

It’s whole purpose is to restore what Adam lost for his children, removing suffering, pain and death from the human race. (Revelation 21:3-4)
When God’s Kingdom rules the earth, God’s will can then “be done, on earth as it is in heaven”....it’s what we have been praying for all along.

That’s absolutely incorrect! I researched the following scriptures to refute the amil claims that the millennial reign of Jesus on earth is not literal, but it fits perfectly here.

Christ’s future literal earthly and eternal kingdom was prophesied in both Old Testament and New Testament prophecies:


Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.


Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:


Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.


Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


Jeremiah 23:5-6 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, that I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; a King shall reign and prosper, and execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. In His days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely; now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS”


The New Testament and Old Testament unequivocally teach an unending kingdom on the earth, with Jesus sitting and reigning on the throne of King David, in Jerusalem.


In Acts 1 Jesus literally ascends bodily and visibly from Mount Olive, and the angel said this same Jesus will return in like manner as you have seen Him leave - meaning His literal return, bodily and visibly, back to Mount Olive:


Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Act 1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.


Zechariah 14:5 is when Jesus fulfills the Acts 1 prophecy, and returns to Mount Olive with all the saints with Him - where He then remains, and the nations such as Egypt come into the gates of Jerusalem to worship Jesus in Zechariah14:16-19, who will be literally and bodily sitting on the throne of David, forever, as prophesied by the old and New Testament:


Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:


Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.


Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall beno end, upon the THRONE of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


1Ki 2:45 And king Solomon shall beblessed, and the THRONE of David shall be established before the LORD for ever.


Jeremiah 23:5-6 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, that I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; a King shall reign and prosper, and execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. In His days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely; now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS”


In Revelation 21, The New Jerusalem which is above, descends to earth to old Jerusalem, and God and the lamb dwell in it with men forever, and Jesus says this about that city in Revelation 3:12:


Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


It’s Literal fact in scripture that there will be a unending literal and physical reign of Christ on the earth, and not just for a thousand years.


Jesus is currently sitting in heaven at the father’s right hand UNTIL the time is right to return to earth:


Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David.The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.”

Psa 110:2 The LORD sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter. Rule IN THE MIDST of your enemies!


Note that Jesus will not rule His kingdom from heaven, but on the earth, in the midst of His enemies.


He will return and land on mount Olive with all His saints per Zechariah 14:5, given earlier, where He will rule and reign from Jerusalem on the throne of David, which is established forever:


1Ki 2:45 And king Solomon shall beblessed, and the throne of David shall be established before the LORD for ever.


And we shall reign and rule with Jesus in His kingdom, on the earth:


Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.


The millennium period isn’t a temporary reign of Jesus - it’s the period where Satan is bound for a thousand years, so all of creation, including the angels, gets to see the contrast between the world being ran evilly by Satan as it’s god and ruler for 4,000 years, compared with Jesus ruling the nations righteously with a rod of Iron for a thousand years - then Satan is loosed for short time, and thrown into the lake of fire.


Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.


Zephaniah also describes Jesus ruling on the earth in Jerusalem:


Zep 3:14 Sing aloud, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel! Rejoice and exult with all your heart, O daughter of Jerusalem!

Zep 3:15 The LORD has taken away the judgments against you; he has cleared away your enemies. The King of Israel, the LORD, is in your midst; you shall never again fear evil.

Zep 3:16 On that day it shall be said to Jerusalem: “Fear not, O Zion; let not your hands grow weak.

Zep 3:17 The LORD your God is in your midst, a mighty one who will save; he will rejoice over you with gladness; he will quiet you by his love; he will exult over you with loud singing.

He’s not in heaven- He’s right there IN THEIR MIDST.

There is no biblical reason whatsoever to deny that the reign of Jesus on the earth in Revelation is literal - from the OT to the NT, it is a literal fact that He will return physically to earth and rule from the throne of David, forever.

 

[Aunty Jane]

He’s not in heaven- He’s right there IN THEIR MIDST.

Of course he is....but how?.....What did Jesus say just before he departed for heaven?
John 14:12, 18....
"Most truly I say to you, whoever exercises faith in me will also do the works that I do; and he will do works greater than these, because I am going my way to the Father. . . . I will not leave you bereaved. I am coming to you. 19 In a little while the world will see me no more, but you will see me, because I live and you will live."

The world would not see Jesus again, but his elect would see him, because they will die and experience the same kind of resurrection that he did....in spirit form, to heaven.

Matthew 28:19-20...
"Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

How was Jesus, who was in heaven, going to be "with" his disciples here on earth to direct the preaching work that he was commanding? Did he need to be physically present? Or was he doing so spiritually?

There is no biblical reason whatsoever to deny that the reign of Jesus on the earth in Revelation is literal - from the OT to the NT, it is a literal fact that He will return physically to earth and rule from the throne of David, forever.

There was then no reason to go and "prepare a place" for members of the elect in heaven if they were only coming back to the earth. Christ and his elect can rule OVER the earth without being ON the earth.

John 14:1-4
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Exercise faith in God; exercise faith also in me. 2 In the house of my Father are many dwelling places. Otherwise, I would have told you, for I am going my way to prepare a place for you. 3 Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be. 4 And where I am going, you know the way.”

Where was "home" for Jesus? Where did his elect think that they were going? Where was his Father's house?
They knew the way but only after the outpouring of holy spirit at Pentecost. The sacred mystery was at last revealed. (Romans 16:25)
It isn't literal....the Kingdom rules from heaven over a cleansed earth. How did God rule Israel?
It was by means of his appointed human representatives.

Those of the elect are "kings and priests" but the Temple in which they serve is not earthly. The physical Temple was a shadow of the reality. (Colossians 2:17)