Who Goes to Heaven.....and What Will They Do There?

[Truth7t7]

There is nothing to suggest that the earth itself will be destroyed at all. There is nothing wrong with the planet...it is only the disobedient and degraded human race that needs removing.
"And he did not refrain from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a flood upon a world of ungodly people." (2 Peter 2:5) The world of the ungodly will again be destroyed.

The "new heavens" is not a new Universe, because there is nothing wrong with the one that has existed since the beginning of material creation....the "new earth" is not a replacement for the one we have now. Like the earth of Noah's day, it was cleansed by God of wicked mankind, but the planet did not go anywhere.
Ecclesiastes 1:4..
"A generation is going, and a generation is coming,
But the earth remains forever."
(Psalm 78:69; Psalm 104:5)


Who said? Heaven is nothing like earth....the spirit realm is not a visible realm and those who have had visions of it were hard pressed to describe it in human terms.

The garden of Eden was a perfect paradise but the first humans, through disobedience, lost it. Jesus came to pay the debt that Adam left for his children, so that we could get back what he lost. Paradise will be right here on earth...the place where God put humans in the first place. This is where everlasting life was meant to be lived.


This is after seeing the 144,000 "bought from the earth as firstfruits" standing on the heavenly Mt Zion with the Lamb. (Revelation 14:1-5)
This "great multitude" are seen as survivors of "the great tribulation" and are also saved Christians. There are two groups...one resurrected to heaven to rule in God's Kingdom with his Christ....and those who will be their subjects on earth, when God restores his first purpose for humankind. (Isaiah 55:11) The earth is about to undergo another cleansing.


Not really a good translation. Other translations give a different meaning to the last part of that verse...
Instead of "burned up" they translate "disclosed"..."laid bare"..."found out"... ..."exposed"..."discovered". So, not a consensus on the meaning there.
Strongs gives the meaning of "heyriskō" as...

1. to come upon, hit upon, to meet with
   1. after searching, to find a thing sought
   2. without previous search, to find (by chance), to fall in with
   3. those who come or return to a place
2. to find by enquiry, thought, examination, scrutiny, observation, to find out by practice and experience
   1. to see, learn, discover, understand
   2. to be found i.e. to be seen, be present
   3. to be discovered, recognised, detected, to show one's self out, of one's character or state as found out by others (men, God, or both)
   4. to get knowledge of, come to know, God
3. to find out for one's self, to acquire, get, obtain, procure

In the NT this word is invariably translated as "find" or "found" so "burned up" does not seem to fit here.
This would indicate that "the earth and its works will be discovered"...or disclosed...or found out.
No burning.


That's it? you have no idea what you will do in heaven? That indicates to me that you are not one of the elect. These know exactly what they have been chosen for.

This existing heaven and earth will be dissolved by the Lords fire in Judgement, there will be a New Heaven and Earth as scripture clearly teaches

Isaiah 24:19-20KJV
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

Revelation 21:1KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Truth7t7]

There are two groups...one resurrected to heaven to rule in God's Kingdom with his Christ....and those who will be their subjects on earth, when God restores his first purpose for humankind. (Isaiah 55:11) The earth is about to undergo another cleansing.


Not really a good translation. Other translations give a different meaning to the last part of that verse...
Instead of "burned up" they translate "disclosed"..."laid bare"..."found out"... ..."exposed"..."discovered". So, not a consensus on the meaning there.
Strongs gives the meaning of "heyriskō" as...

1. to come upon, hit upon, to meet with
   1. after searching, to find a thing sought
   2. without previous search, to find (by chance), to fall in with
   3. those who come or return to a place
2. to find by enquiry, thought, examination, scrutiny, observation, to find out by practice and experience
   1. to see, learn, discover, understand
   2. to be found i.e. to be seen, be present
   3. to be discovered, recognised, detected, to show one's self out, of one's character or state as found out by others (men, God, or both)
   4. to get knowledge of, come to know, God
3. to find out for one's self, to acquire, get, obtain, procure

In the NT this word is invariably translated as "find" or "found" so "burned up" does not seem to fit here.
This would indicate that "the earth and its works will be discovered"...or disclosed...or found out.
No burning.


That's it? you have no idea what you will do in heaven? That indicates to me that you are not one of the elect. These know exactly what they have been chosen for.

"Two Groups" one to rule in Gods Kingdom, and the others to be their subjects on earth?

Sounds like that's straight out of the playbook of (Charles Taze Russel) founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses

Are you a Jehovahs Witness?

 

[Bob Estey]

I see Christians all the time taking for granted that they are going to heaven....but what makes you think so?

Some questions......
1) If you think that you are heaven bound, what do you imagine that you will do in heaven that you cannot do on earth?

2) Are all Christians going to heaven?

3) Why do you think humans are going to heaven when God made us to live forever on earth?

4) What is the purpose of taking humans to heaven when God has millions of angels already there, none of whom needed life on earth to qualify?

Help me understand your reasoning.....scripturally.

First, one must understand what heaven is. Most think it's some place you go to after you die, but if that is so, how do you explain Matthew 4:17: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The promise is to the elect....not to all. Only a select "few" have "the heavenly calling". (Hebrews 3:1)

The elect are all Christians. We were chosen by God, that is what elect means.

To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:"
So not all are "saints" as these are "together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours

We are all sanctified (set apart) - if you are a believer in Christ. We are considered all saints.
"Oh, went the saints, go marchin' in,
Oh when the saints go marchin' in,
Oh how I want to be in that number
When the saints go march in in ...
Oh when I hear, that trumpet sound
Oh when I hear that trumpet sound,
Oh how I know Ill be in that number,
When,I hear that trumpet sound ..."

If those taken to heaven are to be "kings and priests" (Revelation 20:6) then who are their subjects, and for whom do they perform their duties as priests? There are no sinners in heaven....and kings do not rule one another.

Revelation 20:6
There will be a new a generation of Chrisitians on earth who did not take part in the first resurrection. Romans 11 explains a remnant of Jews (Israel) will be enlightened during the Great Tribulation. The 144k (12,000 OF EACH OF THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL) will be part of that group. In Rev. 14, we see them as virgin males. It is also likely that many other people who did not take part in the first resurrection BUT did not take the mark of the beast and after every eye sees Christ at His return (Rev. 1:7), they believed and also will procreate during the Mellennial kingdom.

In all your copy and pasted quotes all I see is "believe" and "everlasting life"...
What does it mean to "believe"? (James 2:19) You think that's all there is to being a Christian?
What is "everlasting life" and is it the same as "immortality"?
Its important to know....

You don't know? You believe in the Bible, the stories as the word of God? More specifically is that you believe thatJesus died for your sins and rose on the third day. You believe in Jesus, you trust him and have faith in His promises. Faith is a gift. It is a certainty of things hoped for, things not seen. Just as you believe the sun will rise tomorrow. There are no doubts. There can be misunderstanding about many doctrines. You could be wrong about some principles, non-essentials and not really know the Bible
as new believers don't, but you have been enlightened about Christ and believe that He has washed your sins away. Belief is a big word. It means you do what He says. If you say you believe but don't obey, it is not true faith in Christ.

All pertain to the elect. The Christians scriptures were written for the elect, by the elect....
What is written does not apply to all Christians, but mainly to the elect directly....and to the saved Christians who will live on earth, indirectly.

Wrong. We are all co-heirs to the Kingsom of God. There is no favoritism or partiality.

There is nothing to suggest that the earth itself will be destroyed at all.

Sorry, you have a non-literal distorted view of many scriptures. If JW's (and others) don't understand or it does not work with their view, they distort it, turn it into something symbolic.
Rev. 21:1 and 2 Peter 3:10 are to be taken literally as most of the Bible should be unless it states otherwise. Symbolism is usually pointed out and explained, like the Dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns.

There is nothing wrong with the planet...it is only the disobedient and degraded human race that needs removing.

This is the answer given to you by your organization. The earth has suffered decay for 6000 years. Sin not only corrupted people but it put a distortion and corruption in all living things and imperfections in the earth as well. Maybe you should have been on the Island of Tonga today with the volcanic eruption? I doubt you would say there is nothing wrong with the earth as you were running for your life.

The "new heavens" is not a new Universe, because there is nothing wrong with the one that has existed since the beginning of material creation....the "new earth" is not a replacement for the one we have now. Like the earth of Noah's day, it was cleansed by God of wicked mankind, but the planet did not go anywhere.
Ecclesiastes 1:4..

Wrong

"A generation is going, and a generation is coming,
But the earth remains forever."
(Psalm 78:69; Psalm 104:5)

Translation of aionios when it pertains to
Temporal (the physical universe) means age, ages, lifetimes, epoch, generations, but not eternal. God's domain and our salvation is eternal, all former things will pass away.

This would indicate that "the earth and its works will be discovered"...or disclosed...or found out.
No burning.

Wrong translation.

That's it? you have no idea what you will do in heaven? That indicates to me that you are not one of the elect. These know exactly what they have been chosen for

I explained talents that people have and will use. We won't be sitting on a cloud and playing the harp. Although I might playing the guitar and singing. We won't be on computers watching TV.

 

[Aunty Jane]

First, one must understand what heaven is. Most think it's some place you go to after you die, but if that is so, how do you explain Matthew 4:17: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."?

It is very important to understand what these terms actually mean in the scriptures.

So according to your understanding, how would you answer the questions in the OP?

 

[Aunty Jane]

We are all sanctified (set apart) - if you are a believer in Christ. We are considered all saints.
"Oh, went the saints, go marchin' in,
Oh when the saints go marchin' in,
Oh how I want to be in that number
When the saints go march in in ...
Oh when I hear, that trumpet sound
Oh when I hear that trumpet sound,
Oh how I know Ill be in that number,
When,I hear that trumpet sound ..."

Good grief.....

Sorry to burst your bubble....but not all are considered "saints".

"To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:"
So not all are "saints" as these are "together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours."
Read it again.....the "saints" are "together with all those who.....call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ"
Not all are "saints"....not everyone is 'called to heaven' because that would mean 'all chiefs and no Indians'....the elect are "chosen" by God for their positions in heaven as 'kings and priests'....no one can volunteer.

These kings will have subjects, and sinful humans for whom to perform their duties as priests.
You appear to be clueless about these things? The earth is going to be cleansed of all wickedness, just as it was in Noah's day, only this time the wicked will face the fiery anger of Jehovah....that "great and fear inspiring day" that the prophets spoke about.
The day when all will know that God is taking charge of earth's affairs by cleansing the sinners out of the land. (Isaiah 13:9; Joel 1:15; Zephaniah 1:15, 18) The earth will stand forever because Jehovah's creation is perfect....after 6 creative "days" God said so.

Revelation 20:6
Romans 11 explains a remnant of Jews (Israel) will be enlightened during the Great Tribulation. The 144k (12,000 OF EACH OF THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL) will be part of that group.

Fleshly Israel will never again feature in God's plans for the future. God abandoned Israel as serial covenant breakers. (Matthew 23:37-39) They could never remain faithful to their God.
Matthew 21:42-43....
"Jesus said to them, “Did you never read in the Scriptures,
‘A stone which the builders rejected,
This has become the chief cornerstone;
This came about from the Lord,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?

43 Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruit."

Acts 15:14..."Simeon has described how God first concerned Himself about taking a people for His name from among the Gentiles."

'Spiritual Israel' replaced the Jews as the Bible clearly states. "The Israel of God" was the Christian congregation made up of both Jewish and Gentile Christians. (Galatians 6:16)

Romans 2:28-29...
"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from people, but from God."

The tribes of Israel in Revelation are not literal.

 

[Aunty Jane]

In Rev. 14, we see them as virgin males. It is also likely that many other people who did not take part in the first resurrection BUT did not take the mark of the beast and after every eye sees Christ at His return (Rev. 1:7), they believed and also will procreate during the Mellennial kingdom.

What????
Galatians 3:26-29...
"For you are all sons and daughters of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise."

Since those who go to heaven are "neither male nor female, Jews or Greeks", those chosen to go to heaven lose their gender as well as their nationality when they are "born again" in order to go to heaven. They are given a new body and are regarded as Abraham's seed, even though there is no fleshly connection. Literal Israel forfeited the right to be that "Kingdom of priests and a holy nation" so God gave it to those who were more deserving.....those who could simply obey God without deviating.

What did John the Baptist say to the self-righteous Pharisees?
"When he caught sight of many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to the baptism, he said to them: “You offspring of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Therefore, produce fruit that befits repentance. 9 Do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children for Abraham from these stones. 10 The ax is already lying at the root of the trees. Every tree, then, that does not produce fine fruit is to be cut down and thrown into the fire." (Matthew 3:7-10)
Don't look now...but the ax fell....and God raised children up from the nations.

You don't know?

I do, but by the look of this response, you don't have a clue.

You believe in the Bible, the stories as the word of God? More specifically is that you believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose on the third day. You believe in Jesus, you trust him and have faith in His promises. Faith is a gift. It is a certainty of things hoped for, things not seen. Just as you believe the sun will rise tomorrow. There are no doubts. There can be misunderstanding about many doctrines. You could be wrong about some principles, non-essentials and not really know the Bible
as new believers don't, but you have been enlightened about Christ and believe that He has washed your sins away. Belief is a big word. It means you do what He says. If you say you believe but don't obey, it is not true faith in Christ.

That had nothing to do with what I said.....you are hedging.

I asked if you knew the difference between everlasting life and immortality.....? Can you tell me, because the Bible speaks about both.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Sorry, you have a non-literal distorted view of many scriptures. If JW's (and others) don't understand or it does not work with their view, they distort it, turn it into something symbolic.
Rev. 21:1 and 2 Peter 3:10 are to be taken literally as most of the Bible should be unless it states otherwise. Symbolism is usually pointed out and explained, like the Dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns.

This is the answer given to you by your organization.

LOL...it is the answer given in the scriptures, which I see you don't consult much....
Which is your "organization"?

The earth has suffered decay for 6000 years. Sin not only corrupted people but it put a distortion and corruption in all living things and imperfections in the earth as well. Maybe you should have been on the Island of Tonga today with the volcanic eruption? I doubt you would say there is nothing wrong with the earth as you were running for your life.

Do you remember the incident where a storm came up as Jesus and his apostles were on board a boat and the waves were so big that a capsize was imminent. Jesus was asleep below deck and they woke him up.
What did he do? He raised his hand to the storm and said "hush".....and the storm immediately abated. (Matthew 8:23-27)
God does not need to destroy the earth....he simply needs to get rid of the filth that covers it....

God can prevent natural disasters, but as long as the devil rules this earth, he will not interfere with any of it.....how else will we make a comparison when God's Kingdom rules and we no longer have anything to fear....not men and not nature. All will return to the way things were meant to be....paradise on earth will be restored....as will everlasting life. Earth's inhabitants however will never be immortal.

Wrong

Says who?

Translation of aionios when it pertains to
Temporal (the physical universe) means age, ages, lifetimes, epoch, generations, but not eternal. God's domain and our salvation is eternal, all former things will pass away.

What will pass away?
Revelation 21:2-4...
"And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among the people, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

All the things that cause suffering and pain will be no more. The earth and the Universe will still be here.

Wrong translation.

Who said?

I explained talents that people have and will use. We won't be sitting on a cloud and playing the harp. Although I might playing the guitar and singing. We won't be on computers watching TV.

You really haven't got a clue, have you?

 

[quietthinker]

Not all are "saints"....not everyone is 'called to heaven' because that would mean 'all chiefs and no Indians'....the elect are "chosen" by God for their positions in heaven as 'kings and priests'....no one can volunteer.

People love hierarchies yet Jesus came as a servant....born into poverty and in Jesus own words 'no where to lay his head.
The Chiefs and Indians order is that of men...it is not of God.
The pyramid style of operation is so ingrained in men we can hardly imagine it being different. Could it be that Jesus came to demonstrate a different kingdom...a kingdom not built on the pyramid model?

Of course there'll be outrage from those who consider themselves as having made progress on some sort of a ladder.....they don't want the old order nullified.

As for the expressions 'kings and priests' what might that mean if not servants along with Jesus

Yes, it'll put a spanner in the works of the standard view but did we really think that God uses the model we use on earth in Heaven?

 

[Aunty Jane]

People love hierarchies yet Jesus came as a servant....born into poverty and in Jesus own words 'no where to lay his head.
The Chiefs and Indians order is that of men...it is not of God.

Jehovah has always had order in his creation. But order doesn't necessarily mean hierarchy. God ordained the rank and file in Israel and so the temple and those who served there were given instructions that had to be followed....all under the oversight of the High Priest, who was answerable to God.

As long as men obeyed their God, order was maintained and peace prevailed.....when they failed to obey, order was distorted and corrupted as men sought power over other men. The one thing God never gave to humans was dominion over each other. They were to have in subjection all in the animal kingdom, but never were they to rule one another......that kind of power always corrupts them. They had one ruler....Jehovah. All they had to do was obey him.....they never could.

The pyramid style of operation is so ingrained in men we can hardly imagine it being different. Could it be that Jesus came to demonstrate a different kingdom...a kingdom not built on the pyramid model?

Not a pyramid, but headship was how order was maintained. (1 Corinthians 11:3) God gave his people oversight in different capacities. An overseer was not given power over anyone, but was responsible to answer to the one who had oversight of him. Down the line all answered to someone who was answerable to someone else. The end of the line was God himself. This kept everyone in check. No one was "boss" of anyone else, because all were answerable to God in following his instructions.

Of course there'll be outrage from those who consider themselves as having made progress on some sort of a ladder.....they don't want the old order nullified.

Reverting to the old ways is seen clearly in Christendom......original Christianity was a very simple form of evangelical worship.
There were no earthly priests, no distinctive garments, no temples, no fancy titles......those were relics of ancient Israel, dispensed with under the new covenant....which Jeremiah had already told them would be nothing like the old one. (Jeremiah 31:31-32)

As for the expressions 'kings and priests' what might that mean if not servants along with Jesus

That is exactly what they are....servants of God just as Jesus was. (Acts 4:27) They are there to serve God's purpose for the redeemed human race. They will not be served by us.....God alone is served by his people.

If you remember, when Israel asked for a human King, that was a slap in the face to the one who already held that position.
They wanted to replace Jehovah with a king like the nations had. He tried to tell them it wasn't a good idea but they would have none of it. All their days being ruled by flawed human kings was to their detriment.The odd good king ruled but the good never lasted.

The priesthood was to lead the people in worship, not to rule over them...but the Pharisees corrupted Judaism to such an extent that Jesus didn't have a good word to say to them. (Matthew 23) Christendom is the mirror image of Judaism....enslaved to the hierarchy...doctrines corrupted to the core.

Yes, it'll put a spanner in the works of the standard view but did we really think that God uses the model we use on earth in Heaven?

I have never held the standard view personally.....God has always had his own model....humans were never good at following it.

 

[Bob Estey]

It is very important to understand what these terms actually mean in the scriptures.

So according to your understanding, how would you answer the questions in the OP?

1) If you think that you are heaven bound, what do you imagine that you will do in heaven that you cannot do on earth? Answer: I believe heaven is a state of mind, not a place (Matthew 4:17). In heaven there will be nothing to worry about.

2) Are all Christians going to heaven? Answer: That depends. I think all people who repent of their sin are already in heaven. (Matthew 4:17)

3) Why do you think humans are going to heaven when God made us to live forever on earth? Answer: Who said God made us to live forever on earth?

4) What is the purpose of taking humans to heaven when God has millions of angels already there, none of whom needed life on earth to qualify? Answer: Who said that "God has millions of angels already there, none of whom needed life on earth to qualify"?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Good grief.....

Sorry to burst your bubble....but not all are cons idered "saints".

So if Christians have God living in their temple, they are not saints? Do you think God dwells inside an unregenerate, carnally minded person? No He dwells inside a new creature, in their spiritual temple.

As in the OT, God dwelled in the Most Holy Place of the Temple separated by a veil. Inside, was the Ark of the Covenant containing the Law and inside, there could be no sin. Therefore the priest who entered had to be without sin otherwise he would die, which is why they tied a rope around him - just in case. Well, that temple became obsolete.
Our New Temple contains a New Covenant. We are under Grace. The Law having been fulfulled for us. This New Temple is divided and separate from our flesh, where sin dwells as rhe Old Holy of Holies was separate from the outer court. Do you see the parallel? The OT Temple was a physical template design of our new spiritual temple.
Let's look at a diagram of that Old Temple:


"* Jesus is our High Priest and Sacrificial Lamb who enters into our hearts. His blood cleanses us if sin.
* The veil is lifted (torn as with the Old Temple) when the Word enters and we believe.
* The Most Holy Place is where the Holy Spirit dwells at the time of regeneration. This is our spirityal compartment.
* The Holy Place represents our soul; is composed of our mind, will, emotions, personality, talents, etc.
* The spirit and soul are the heart of man.
* The Courtyard represents our body. Our soul and body (flesh) is where sin dwells.
* The Table of Showbread contained the bread and wine thay represents our fellowship (communion) with God.
* The Lampstand was always lit. It represents righteousness and since Jesus is the Light, we are able to see spiritually. The Church (Body of Christ) is also the same lampstand that we are part of.
* The Bronze Laver was used for cleansing before entering thw tabernacle to perform sacrifices. It represents the cleansing of the new believer, the baptism by water ans our willingness to recive forgiveness and spiritual cleansing."
[Diagram and quote Copyright 2010 by Ronald D. Bruno, "Hell ... IF I Know",]

I realize this is a foreign teaching to you. JW's will not teach you this, they are blind to it.
God grows ours spiritual life in knowledge of the Word and character and our behavior is transformed into Christ-like beings. We still sin though, but less and less as we cooperate with the Spirit who guides us. Remember, the Bible says the soul and spirit can be divided and so as highly integrated as we are (soul and spirit), our spirt separates at death, taking with it all that is good about you, the new creature and leaving the rest behind, so that Jesus presents you to the Father - white as snow! And that could happen today!
Do YOU not know that you are the Temple of the Holy Spirit and that He lives in you, Who is God? You live in a different bubble. Your problem is that you have been taught wrong about the human spirit and anout the nature if God. You think we are just flesh and blood and when we die, we go six feet under. You don't believe people are in and have been in heaven.
Anyways, my bubble is much bigger - you can't nurst it because God lives inside.
Our soul/spirit is the invisible you. Our soul/spirit is the executive director of our physical self. Our mind, will, emotions, personality, talents, etc are not physical. Thoughts and feelings are transferred through our bodies by neurotransmitters (chemicals). Our mjnd hses our nrain to function in this physical realm. Sound odd to you? God has a mind and no brain!
This is the image of Himself that he made. Our bodies are fearfully made, highly integrated and although it appears all you possess is the physical self, we are spiritual beings.
When we are born again (John 3:3) and you must be born again to enter into His kingdom (which we are in); this is the new creature, spiritual. This is the purified you _washed of sin! If I died today, my spirit would go directly to heaven to be with the Lord. "To be absent the body is to be present with the Lord".
And you are totally conscious of this. You don't have to wait a 1000 years to find out if you will be saved. Christians believe we are saved. Otherwise what is faith? And as you numerously ponder, what is belief?
Believe it or not. If not, okay, we a done here.

 

[Aunty Jane]

So if Christians have God living in their temple, they are not saints? Do you think God dwells inside an unregenerate, carnally minded person? No He dwells inside a new creature, in their spiritual temple.

If you say so....

[Diagram and quote Copyright 2010 by Ronald D. Bruno, "Hell ... IF I Know",]

That tells me a lot.....copyright? Seriously?

I realize this is a foreign teaching to you. JW's will not teach you this, they are blind to it.

It is foreign to most of the readers here I would venture.....even those who are not JW’s.
Would they also be blind to it as well? Do you think that God gives different people different convictions as to what is truth? Can you all believe your own interpretation of scripture and then present that as absolute truth, when others will argue that they too are educated by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but believe differently? Does God do this? Is this the way Christ taught? Who are your brotherhood? Is there a global body of believers who believe as you do? (1 Corinthians 1:10) Who else shares your views?

Do YOU not know that you are the Temple of the Holy Spirit and that He lives in you, Who is God? You live in a different bubble. Your problem is that you have been taught wrong about the human spirit and anout the nature if God. You think we are just flesh and blood and when we die, we go six feet under. You don't believe people are in and have been in heaven.
Anyways, my bubble is much bigger - you can't nurst it because God lives inside.

I appreciate your sincerity, but I don’t share your beliefs in any way.

The elect are said to be the temple of the Holy Spirit, but I am not one of the elect. My hope is entirely earthly and I have no desire to go to heaven. I want what God desired to give all humanity at the beginning....it was perfect and we are designed to live right here, but with the devil’s influence on the fallen human race and sin cleared away, and the earth and mankind restored to what God originally planned it to be. (Isaiah 55:11; Revelation 21:2-4)

There was no reason for any human to go to heaven originally.....so not everyone who claims to be Christian is going to heaven....the natural desire to live in paradise was actually instilled in us because this earth was supposed to be man’s permanent home. Where did you get the idea that everyone is elected? That is kind of like saying every politician who runs for office is “elected” before the people vote. God is the one who elects those who will rule with his Christ. You can’t volunteer for that position just by becoming a Christian.

When we are born again (John 3:3) and you must be born again to enter into His kingdom (which we are in); this is the new creature, spiritual. This is the purified you _washed of sin! If I died today, my spirit would go directly to heaven to be with the Lord. "To be absent the body is to be present with the Lord".
And you are totally conscious of this. You don't have to wait a 1000 years to find out if you will be saved. Christians believe we are saved. Otherwise what is faith? And as you numerously ponder, what is belief?
Believe it or not. If not, okay, we a done here.

I choose not to believe what you believe, and I can see why you are leaving the conversation....
What is belief? Indeed, it is everything. We live in a world where deception is rife......how can we tell if what we believe is true? Simply having conviction is not an indication that what we believe is truth.

We are all being caught in the act of being ourselves.....God does not determine who we are....by the choices we make, we do.

 

[Aunty Jane]

1) If you think that you are heaven bound, what do you imagine that you will do in heaven that you cannot do on earth? Answer: I believe heaven is a state of mind, not a place (Matthew 4:17). In heaven there will be nothing to worry about.

Thank you for the clarification of your beliefs.
If heaven is a state of mind, then how did Jesus “come down from heaven”? Coming “down” means that heaven is “up”. (John 6:38)
Why do we pray to “our Father” who is said by Jesus to be “in heaven”?

Matthew 18:10 says...
“See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I tell you that their angels in heaven always look upon the face of my Father who is in heaven.”
Heaven can’t be a state of mind then, can it?

2) Are all Christians going to heaven? Answer: That depends. I think all people who repent of their sin are already in heaven. (Matthew 4:17)

Is “I think” the same as “God’s word says”?
If you understand why sin has been afflicting mankind in this world for thousands of years, when God originally created us to be perfect (without defect) then sending his son to redeem us has to be a very serious remedy to the problem of sin. Repentance alone was not sufficient....or Christ’s ransom is redundant.
So where are the unrepentant...the “goats”? Where did Jesus say that they would go?

Matthew 25:31-34, 41, 46....
“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. 34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. . . . .41 Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. . . . 46 These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.“

3) Why do you think humans are going to heaven when God made us to live forever on earth? Answer: Who said God made us to live forever on earth?

God did....in Genesis there was a tree of life in the garden to which the humans had free access. This tree guaranteed that life would be everlasting.....but it was not immortality that it provided.
When the humans transgressed God’s command and stole something that he had rightfully claimed as his own, only then was access to this tree denied....
Genesis 3:22-24...
“Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life. (ESV)

Only then with the tree of life inaccessible, would sin and death overtake humanity. The “trees of life” are not mentioned again until the Revelation, when God restores his first purpose for mankind to live forever on this earth. (Revelation 22:1-2; Revelation 21:2-4)

4) What is the purpose of taking humans to heaven when God has millions of angels already there, none of whom needed life on earth to qualify? Answer: Who said that "God has millions of angels already there, none of whom needed life on earth to qualify"?[/QUOTE]
Hebrews 12:22-23....
“22 But you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels 23 in general assembly, and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the Judge of all, and the spiritual lives of righteous ones who have been made perfect.”

There they are....and these living beings who dwell in the heavens, were witnesses to the material creation as Job 38:4-7 says...
Job was asked....
4 Where were you when I founded the earth?
Tell me, if you think you understand.
5 Who set its measurements, in case you know,
Or who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 Into what were its pedestals sunk,
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars joyfully cried out together,
And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?”

They existed before us, so they did not need to spend time here on earth to qualify for heaven.

The Bible provides the answer to all our questions, therefore we need never say “I think”.....the Bible does not rely on what we think...we just have to know what it teaches.

 

[Enoch111]

I see Christians all the time taking for granted that they are going to heaven....but what makes you think so?

Since the Bible is crystal clear about this, what makes you think the OPPOSITE?

 

[Taken]

I see Christians all the time taking for granted that they are going to heaven....but what makes you think so?

Some questions......

1) If you think that you are heaven bound, what do you imagine that you will do in heaven that you cannot do on earth?

Personally me; is my body, my soul, my spirit.
I do have an expectation of heaven bound, for my soul, my spirit.
I do have an expectation of dirt grave, for my body.
What shall my soul and my spirit do in heaven?
* See the Lord God as He is.
* Be exclusively in the company of other saved souls, quickened spirits, serving God.

2) Are all Christians going to heaven?

Scriptures speaks very little about people calling themselves Christians, period.
So...to that question. No.
All Saved souls and Quickened spirits shall go to Heaven, Temporarily.
Heaven is not a permanent habitat for the Saved souls and Quickened spirits of mankind.
Heaven is a Temporary Place for Saved souls and Quickened spirits, UNTIL their body’s are risen in glory, the earth renewed, THEN they return to their earthly Estate.

 

[quietthinker]

Thank you for the clarification of your beliefs.
If heaven is a state of mind, then how did Jesus “come down from heaven”? Coming “down” means that heaven is “up”. (John 6:38)
Why do we pray to “our Father” who is said by Jesus to be “in heaven”?

Matthew 18:10 says...
“See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I tell you that their angels in heaven always look upon the face of my Father who is in heaven.”
Heaven can’t be a state of mind then, can it?


Is “I think” the same as “God’s word says”?
If you understand why sin has been afflicting mankind in this world for thousands of years, when God originally created us to be perfect (without defect) then sending his son to redeem us has to be a very serious remedy to the problem of sin. Repentance alone was not sufficient....or Christ’s ransom is redundant.
So where are the unrepentant...the “goats”? Where did Jesus say that they would go?

Matthew 25:31-34, 41, 46....
“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. 34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. . . . .41 Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. . . . 46 These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.“


God did....in Genesis there was a tree of life in the garden to which the humans had free access. This tree guaranteed that life would be everlasting.....but it was not immortality that it provided.
When the humans transgressed God’s command and stole something that he had rightfully claimed as his own, only then was access to this tree denied....
Genesis 3:22-24...
“Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life. (ESV)

Only then with the tree of life inaccessible, would sin and death overtake humanity. The “trees of life” are not mentioned again until the Revelation, when God restores his first purpose for mankind to live forever on this earth. (Revelation 22:1-2; Revelation 21:2-4)

4) What is the purpose of taking humans to heaven when God has millions of angels already there, none of whom needed life on earth to qualify? Answer: Who said that "God has millions of angels already there, none of whom needed life on earth to qualify"?
Hebrews 12:22-23....
“22 But you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels 23 in general assembly, and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the Judge of all, and the spiritual lives of righteous ones who have been made perfect.”

There they are....and these living beings who dwell in the heavens, were witnesses to the material creation as Job 38:4-7 says...
Job was asked....
4 Where were you when I founded the earth?
Tell me, if you think you understand.
5 Who set its measurements, in case you know,
Or who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 Into what were its pedestals sunk,
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars joyfully cried out together,
And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?”

They existed before us, so they did not need to spend time here on earth to qualify for heaven.

The Bible provides the answer to all our questions, therefore we need never say “I think”.....the Bible does not rely on what we think...we just have to know what it teaches.

It appears to me many are on a bible trip here rattling off texts like it's a badge of honour. Pity the poor folk who are blind and are intellectually disabled...they would never make the grade!

'You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.' John 5:39

Emotional involvement is not optional when it comes to knowing Jesus! ....and if we are to learn from him where on earth did he ever make his point by trucking out loads of texts?.....that was the exclusive domain of the 'religious'

I suppose we could parallel it by quoting verses of Shakespeare to your spouse in the hope you would persuade them of your love.......sterile as an alcohol dipped scalpel.

 

[Bob Estey]

Thank you for the clarification of your beliefs.
If heaven is a state of mind, then how did Jesus “come down from heaven”? Coming “down” means that heaven is “up”. (John 6:38)
Why do we pray to “our Father” who is said by Jesus to be “in heaven”? ...

How did Jesus come down if heaven isn't a place? In the spiritual world, we can move up, down, and sideways, can't we? And which is real, the spiritual world or physical world? Jesus did say that heaven and earth will pass away, but his words will not pass away (Matthew 24:35), suggesting to me that the spiritual world, and not the physical world, is reality.

We pray to "our Father" because he is our Creator, Life-Giver, and Savior.

 

[Waiting on him]

I do not find your interpretation(s) persuasive....in fact, as mentioned elsewhere, I find it nothing more than eisegesis

Is eisegesis mixing fantasy with reality to form a theory?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Since the Bible is crystal clear about this, what makes you think the OPPOSITE?

When you understand that the Christian scriptures were written by the elect, for the elect, you will then not take it for granted that it was ever God’s purpose to have humans live anywhere else but where he put them in the first place. It was paradise, remember? You want better than that then learn a lesson from Eve....she thought she could do better too.

1 Corinthians 1:1-2 speaks about the “saints” and others who also call on the name of the Lord.....”their Lord and ours”.....so, not all are “saints”.

You tell me.....is this earth just a training ground for heaven? Where does it say that?