Who has the authority…

[theefaith]

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15



1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

This extends to the truth and to the church founded by Christ to teach all
men!

Cos Jesus Christ is the truth and cos His church is of divine origin, commissioned to teach the truth!

Christians must be taught and that requires humility! Lk 1:4 matt 28:19-20 matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 acts 2:42 acts 8:31

Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors founded in the one true church by Jesus Christ!

Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) holy mother church replaced Israel Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!


—————————-

Grace and law!

The great error of faith alone is that you believe you are saved and under grace and that you ARE NOT subject to the Mosaic law, (and that’s correct) but also you are not subject to the moral law and DO NOT need to pray, fast, give alms, practice virtue, suffer for Christ, or be righteous, or keep the commandments, even the commandments of Jesus, or maintain any standard of morality!
It’s a gross misunderstanding of law and Grace!

Misunderstanding
of grace!

Confuses the mosaic law with the moral law!

—————————-
—————————-

Authority in what they teach and not in a person in an office!

Jesus is not our salvation: only what He taught?

Lk 2:30 Matt 16:16 Jesus in His person is our salvation, not only in what He taught!
Matt 16:13 not what do people say about what I teach, but whom do people say the I am!

The teaching of the successors of Moses not their person?

The successors of Moses sit in the seat of Moses Matt 23:1 a teaching cannot sit in the seat of Moses!

Peters confession not Peters person? Matt 16:18

You give the keys to a person not to a confession!

Acts 1:26 they choose Mathias not the teaching of Mathias!

 

[theefaith]

Spiritual Fathers (apostles) have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

 

[ScottA]

a body is physical

More evidence of the flesh advocating for the flesh.

By definition, that simply shows the limit of your understanding.

 

[ScottA]

Spiritual Fathers (apostles) have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

The apostles of Jesus did receive authority...but it was squandered just as Peter foretold:

But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 Peter 2:1​

 

[theefaith]

More evidence of the flesh advocating for the flesh.

By definition, that simply shows the limit of your understanding.

it is both spiritual and physical
Visible and invisible

seek first the kingdom

it must be physical to be able to seek it

 

[theefaith]

The apostles of Jesus did receive authority...but it was squandered just as Peter foretold:

But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 Peter 2:1​

those are enemies not the church

Matt 16:18-19 shall not prevail
Jn 16:13 no error taught by the church of Christ would be teaching error lk 10:16

 

[theefaith]

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

 

[Robert Gwin]

which is it the Bible alone or the teaching of the apostles?

There are no teachings of apostles found anywhere except the Bible Faith.

 

[Robert Gwin]

what’s the water for?

?

 

[Robert Gwin]

good settle these matters or questions

Seven spirits of God:

Does it mean there are seven holy spirits?
Or the seven gifts of the spirit?

Seven churches:

Does it mean there are seven churches?

Or the one church at seven different locations?

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Does it mean “faith alone”? “Accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior”?

Or does it mean the Christian sacrament of baptism?

Seven spirits of God:

Does it mean there are seven holy spirits? No
Or the seven gifts of the spirit? No

At Revelation 1:4 “the seven spirits” of God are mentioned as before his throne, and thereafter seven messages are given, each concluding with an admonition to “hear what the spirit says to the congregations.” (Re 2:7, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22) These messages contain heart-searching pronouncements of judgment and promises of reward for faithfulness. God’s Son is shown as having these “seven spirits of God” (Re 3:1); and they are spoken of as being “seven lamps of fire” (Re 4:5), and also as seven eyes of the lamb that is slaughtered, “which eyes mean the seven spirits of God that have been sent forth into the whole earth.” (Re 5:6) Seven being used as representative of completeness in other prophetic texts, it appears that these seven spirits symbolize the full active capacity of observation, discernment, or detection of the glorified Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, enabling him to inspect all the earth.

Seven churches:

Does it mean there are seven churches? No

Or the one church at seven different locations? Yes, seven different congregations of the faith.

Keep in mind however that since the number of congregations of God’s people worldwide has grown into the tens of thousands during the Lord’s day, we can be sure that what is said primarily to the “seven congregations” of anointed ones also applies to all of God’s people today. (Revelation 1:10)


Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Does it mean “faith alone”? “Accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior”? No

Or does it mean the Christian sacrament of baptism? No

We have discussed born again extensively. In a nutshell it means anointed, baptized by holy spirit.
At some point all Christians get baptized in water, but among them 144k has been selected to be baptized by holy spirit as well, the meaning of born again.

 

[ScottA]

it is both spiritual and physical
Visible and invisible

seek first the kingdom

it must be physical to be able to seek it

Good, that is a start. But do be careful, the physical is only an image--that image darkly.

 

[Rich R]

Who has the authority to interpret scripture?

Interpretation provides meaning!

Meaning provides understanding!

Understanding produces unity!

Examples:

Text: a Fat sandwich man.

What does it mean: a fat man making sandwiches?

Or does it mean: a man making fat sandwiches?

No Hurry:

Does it mean we don’t have time so hurry up?

Or does it mean we got lots of time?

Seven spirits of God:

Does it mean there are seven holy spirits?
Or the seven gifts of the spirit?

Seven churches:

Does it mean there are seven churches?

Or the one church at seven different locations?

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Does it mean “faith alone”? “Accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior”?

Or does it mean the Christian sacrament of baptism?

the church existed before the NT
The church wrote the NT
The scriptures are the possession of the church!
The church alone has authority to interpret scripture and provide meaning, understanding and unity of faith!

Well, I didn't find it necessary to interpret anything you said in your Post. It's a good Post.

Interpretation means to make clear. Since everything you wrote is already quite clear, it was not necessary to interpret anything. I just read what you wrote and the meaning is very clear. I'd say about 98% of the scriptures are just like that (not a scientific number, just my own estimation :)). Just read what's written and believe it.

The verses that aren't clear can usually be made clear by the context, where a word or words were used elsewhere, by understanding the culture. Sometimes it is necessary to ascertain if words in a verse were added or changed by a scribe. But, like I said, I believe the vast majority of scripture says what it means and means what it says.

Who has the authority to do that? Anybody that can read and think logically. Pretty much anybody.

 

[ScottA]

those are enemies not the church

Matt 16:18-19 shall not prevail
Jn 16:13 no error taught by the church of Christ would be teaching error lk 10:16

The key phrase in Peter's word to the church, was "among you"--the "enemies" (as you rightfully call them) "among you." Which would include "among" the church fathers who placed humble Peter upon a pedestal, not as body but as head, not insisting upon only what comes from the Father but insisting on the man, on Peter himself, rather than on Him who sent Him...in spite of their backing it with words pointing back to the Source. The point is, the church fathers, by their actions, put "flesh and blood" first, causing discourse for millennia.

All of which did not cause the word of God to return void, nor have they prevailed. But like Israel who did not see their salvation before death, they too (the church fathers) have not received all that was appointed to them, but have been given over to the sword. Matthew 24:51

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

how?

the apostles are the successors of Christ
Sent by Christ to teach the nations

The Catholic idea that Christ has successors implies Christ stopped being the Head of His Church, and that never happened. In Paul's letters, he frequently addressed Christ as still being superior to the apostles in authority.

You can also see this being taught in Rev. 1-3 where these chapters describes Christ as being the Overseer of all 7 of the Church eras, from the 1st century A.D. all the way to the current century. Christ has never relinquished His authority to a human being during that space of time, and it's antichrist(not to mention blasphemous) to even suggest that such a thing ever happened.

Do Catholics need to be reminded of Eph. 1:22 says where it talks about the Father putting all things in this universe under Christ's authority, including His Church?

Key word: Implied.

What does our Christian history teach us since Scripture does not flat out say IMMERSION?

I also take note that you couldn't provide a vs from Scripture to support what you believe.

You say the Bible doesn't teach immersion, but that's because you refuse to study it or accept what it clearly says:

"When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him." - Matt. 3:16

"So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing." - Acts 8:39

Both of these passages clearly teach full immersion as the only acceptable method of baptism. The only reason why Jesus and the eunuch would've had to come out of the water in these accounts was if they were immersed in it. These passages certainly don't describe someone being sprinkled with water.

 

[Bob Estey]

Who has the authority to interpret scripture?

Interpretation provides meaning!

Meaning provides understanding!

Understanding produces unity!

Examples:

Text: a Fat sandwich man.

What does it mean: a fat man making sandwiches?

Or does it mean: a man making fat sandwiches?

No Hurry:

Does it mean we don’t have time so hurry up?

Or does it mean we got lots of time?

Seven spirits of God:

Does it mean there are seven holy spirits?
Or the seven gifts of the spirit?

Seven churches:

Does it mean there are seven churches?

Or the one church at seven different locations?

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Does it mean “faith alone”? “Accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior”?

Or does it mean the Christian sacrament of baptism?

the church existed before the NT
The church wrote the NT
The scriptures are the possession of the church!
The church alone has authority to interpret scripture and provide meaning, understanding and unity of faith!

Some of the Bible is rather easy to interpret: Do not steal, do not commit adultery, etc. But some of the Bible is a bit figurative, I would say.

But it isn't for someone else to interpret it for you. You might find passages, especially in the book of Revelation, that in a figurative way, explain events in your life. You will recognize them when they occur.

 

[theefaith]

There are no teachings of apostles found anywhere except the Bible Faith.

really?
What did Nathaniel and Andrew teach?

 

[theefaith]

?

jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit

why water?

 

[theefaith]

The key phrase in Peter's word to the church, was "among you"--the "enemies" (as you rightfully call them) "among you." Which would include "among" the church fathers who placed humble Peter upon a pedestal, not as body but as head, not insisting upon only what comes from the Father but insisting on the man, on Peter himself, rather than on Him who sent Him...in spite of their backing it with words pointing back to the Source. The point is, the church fathers, by their actions, put "flesh and blood" first, causing discourse for millennia.

All of which did not cause the word of God to return void, nor have they prevailed. But like Israel who did not see their salvation before death, they too (the church fathers) have not received all that was appointed to them, but have been given over to the sword. Matthew 24:51

it is Christ who makes Peter father and head of the church on earth

Jesus Christ is the rock of salvation!

Peter is the rock that the church is built on by Christ alone!

Lk 22
All apostles But Jesus prays for Peter alone

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Only Peter and His successors have
Jurisdictional authority from Christ to govern the church!

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediary!

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.



Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church on earth in the place of Christ until His return!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22

Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20

 

[theefaith]

The Catholic idea that Christ has successors implies Christ stopped being the Head of His Church, and that never happened. In Paul's letters, he frequently addressed Christ as still being superior to the apostles in authority.

Christ is God and king and head of the church he founded but Christ ascended to heaven and appointed Peter and his successors to govern the church and administer the kingdom till he returns

You can also see this being taught in Rev. 1-3 where these chapters describes Christ as being the Overseer of all 7 of the Church eras, from the 1st century A.D. all the way to the current century. Christ has never relinquished His authority to a human being during that space of time, and it's antichrist(not to mention blasphemous) to even suggest that such a thing ever happened.

Do Catholics need to be reminded of Eph. 1:22 says where it talks about the Father putting all things in this universe under Christ's authority, including His Church?
You say the Bible doesn't teach immersion, but that's because you refuse to study it or accept what it clearly says:





Both of these passages clearly teach full immersion as the only acceptable method of baptism. The only reason why Jesus and the eunuch would've had to come out of the water in these accounts was if they were immersed in it. These passages certainly don't describe someone being sprinkled with water.

immersion is acceptable form of baptism
But the Bible does not say the only way

Washed also imply’s pouring or sprinkling

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (baptism rom 6:3-4)

Valid Christian baptism requires the flowing water over the forehead three times.

With the words:

I baptize you in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit!

A sacrament is an outward sign
Which is a gift from God to help our little minds see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!




And it does not say
except infants

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized.

(It does not say except infants)


“Promise of the Father”
acts 2:38-39

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39

 

[Marymog]

You say the Bible doesn't teach immersion, but that's because you refuse to study it or accept what it clearly says:

Both of these passages clearly teach full immersion as the only acceptable method of baptism. The only reason why Jesus and the eunuch would've had to come out of the water in these accounts was if they were immersed in it. These passages certainly don't describe someone being sprinkled with water.

Hi Desire,

No, Scripture DOES NOT clearly say that the eunuch or Jesus was immersed. That is why there is a debate among Christians about this. If it CLEARLY said immersion then there would not be a debate about this. So, logically, if it is in debate then it is NOT as clear as you allege.

You are right when you say that those " passages certainly don't describe someone being sprinkled with water." Those passages also don't describe full immersion. Also, before you use it as evidence, the Greek word baptizo ALSO means dipping!

Can you go into water and come up out of water and not be fully immersed? Up to your waist? Up to your chest? Up to your neck? The answer is YES.

Furthermore, your Christian forefathers (from the time of the Apostles) who wrote in the Didache (around 60AD) said that one can have watered poured on them as a valid form of baptism.

Furthermore, the earliest images from your forefathers show pouring of water on a persons head for baptism.

Furthermore, how do you give a valid baptism to a person who is not able to be fully immersed (medical reasons?)?

Furthermore, it has been determined that the Jordan river was not even deep enough during the time of Christ to do immersion.

Furthermore, the earliest Christian baptismal fonts were not big enough for immersion.

In summary you are wrong when you say that Scripture is clear about this AND the earliest recorded non canonical writings prove you wrong AND the earliest art work prove you wrong AND the Jordan river nor baptismal fonts were deep enough for person to be fully immersed AND logic prove you wrong.

You are listening to men of the 16th century. I choose to listen to men of the 1st century who lived during the times of the Apostles and I use logic. Why do you refuse to listen to the men who were alive during the time of the Apostles? You choose to listen to men who lived 1,500 years later? Why do you refuse to study your own Christian history and Scripture for what it really says instead of adding to it what it doesn't say?

Keeping it real....Mary

PS.......Didache: And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19 in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.