Who is Jesus Christ?

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101G

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You cannot have a father without a son, or a son without a father = two, not one.
first, thanks for the reply
second, you said, "= two, not one". I'm glad you said that.

now Dave since you're following the conversation. maybe you can shed some light on this subject.

the question I asked "who sent "HIS" (one Person), angel to John. and in Revelation 22:6 the angel was clear as to who sent him, and he said the "Lord God" of the holy Prophets sent him. as you said "father" and "Son" are two.

so who was it that sent "his" Angel to John.

if you will please clear up this matter, was it the one whom you calls "Father" or the One whom you calls the Son? which ONE
 
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Dave L

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first, thanks for the reply
second, you said, "= two, not one". I'm glad you said that.

now Dave since you're following the conversation. maybe you can shed some light on this subject.

the question I asked "who sent "HIS" (one Person), angel to John. and in Revelation 22:6 the angel was clear as to who sent him, and he said the "Lord God" of the holy Prophets sent him. as you said "father" and "Son" are two.

so who was it that sent "his" Angel to John.

if you will please clear up this matter, was it the one whom you calls "Father" or the One whom you calls the Son? which ONE
It still remains, you cannot have a father without a son, or a son without a father. “Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and take up residence with him.” (John 14:23)
 
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101G

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It still remains, you cannot have a father without a son, or a son without a father. “Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and take up residence with him.” (John 14:23)
I know this Dave, I know that there is only one Person in the Godhead and it's the Spirit, better known as the Holy Spirit. but dose not the trinity say the Father is not the Son and vice versa? for those who believe this, I'm after the PERSONS.
 

Stranger

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What does it matter what a person believes if God regenerates them so they can hear the truth. The Reformers were all Catholics. But after being born again they learned the truth.

The question is back in post #(26).

Stranger
 
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Dave L

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I know this Dave, I know that there is only one Person in the Godhead and it's the Spirit, better known as the Holy Spirit. but dose not the trinity say the Father is not the Son and vice versa? for those who believe this, I'm after the PERSONS.
But, Jesus says "we" speaking about him and the Father.
 

Stranger

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This is what I'm referring to. It matters not what we believe. The New Birth will ultimately rescue us from it.

You have neglected the intent of the question in post #(26). Probably because it forces you to change something you have stated. Your reply is no answer to the question.

Stranger
 
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Dave L

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You have neglected the intent of the question in post #(26). Probably because it forces you to change something you have stated. Your reply is no answer to the question.

Stranger
If you didn't believe in free will, my answer would make perfect sense.
 

Stranger

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To focus too much of the flesh man of Jesus, the Son. I’m not sure I’m contending or differing just, even when I first came here to the board I saw Jesus still hanging on the cross. I couldn’t see resurrection life, only death. Every one, even atheist mention the man Jesus and often in that what He represented (a good man) or taught is nothing like what they hear “Christians” teach. Very rarely do they recognize Christ who is resurrected Spirit but will admit there may have been a man named Jesus. Isn’t it that one must believe...not in His death but in His resurrection Life? I could be wrong but isn’t that the focus of some other religions that Jesus did die but the resurrection never took place but rather He was just a man...a Prophet and great teacher but not resurrection Life?

must we believe in Jesus? “The greatest man to ever walk the earth” : A great teacher and prophet. Or must we believe in Christ whom was raised from the dead?

Are they not the same?

Stranger
 
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Dave L

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Very well. If that is your best....fine.

Stranger
Your question comes from an Arminian understanding of salvation, so it makes sense to you. But from my position it is not answerable unless restated in a way that aligns with an Augustinian understanding of salvation. So we have a built in mismatch in many of our conversations.
 

Stranger

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Your question comes from an Arminian understanding of salvation, so it makes sense to you. But from my position it is not answerable unless restated in a way that aligns with an Augustinian understanding of salvation. So we have a built in mismatch in many of our conversations.

If that makes you feel better....fine. Now, forget it.

Stranger
 

Taken

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101G

Your question, who sent their angel..
Answer, Jesus.

Rev 22
[16] I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things...

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken
 

Taken

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101G said:
I know this Dave, I know that there is only one Person in the Godhead and it's the Spirit, better known as the Holy Spirit. but dose not the trinity say the Father is not the Son and vice versa? for those who believe this, I'm after the PERSONS.

I believe in the Trinity, according to what the WORD TRINITY means;

Tri- the prefix that means THREE.
Unity - that means UNIT of ONE.

However I do not agree with the Teaching of Some in How they EXPLAIN what the "TRINITY" means to them.

(For Example...I do not agree with;
God IS, God IS NOT, GOD IS NOT.
Son IS. Son IS NOT, Son IS NOT.
Holy Spirit IS. HS IS NOT. HS IS NOT.)

Each ONE of the UNIT, that speaks of a particular of the THREE, is often spoken of using the TERM "PERSON", I presume for clarification for what is being done.

That does not MAKE, ANY of THREE of the ONE UNIT, Persons, in the Human sense, or Separate ONE from the other.

God Himself refers in regard to Himself, as "us" and "our" in Genesis 1.

In Isaiah, God speaks about "council".
In this context "council" is referring to a sort of conferring, discussion, to come to an agreement.

Men "go" "attend" are sometimes part of a "council", and such men confer and discuss among themselves to conclude they are in "agreement" on a particular topic.

Gods "council", IS His own thoughts, His own word, His own Spirit. That they are all on the SAME topic and SAME agreement.

God does not seek "council" from his created spirits or creatures (ie angels, mankind, animalkind of things).

Man may even be "their" own "council"...
Discussing among ...
His minds thoughts
His spirits thoughts in his heart
His bodys thoughts

And result in an agreement, or disagreement.
Like your mind may say, you have to get up and leave for work at 6 am.
6 am rolls around, your mind remembers, is ready to get up and go, and your body will not agree or cooperate. <--- that is your own council NOT being in accord/ agreement with itself.

Gods "council" is always in agreement with itself. One can not act without the other two.

Gods thoughts, Gods word, Gods power/spirit, all ONE God.

Glory to God,
Merry Christmas,
Taken
 
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101G

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(smile), ok I got you..
Herein is the great mystery of the Godhead. They are One, yet distinct Persons. Are you a believer in Jesus Christ? Have you been born-again? That means Jesus Christ is in you, and you are in Christ. Correct? Do you cease to be you? Are you just Jesus Christ in your body? Please tell me how that works...ok?
Ok stranger, you asked, and I'm obligated as a child of God to answer you, who is a child of God also.
here is the GREAT Mystery of the Godhead, straight to the point. God, the Spirit, is a "equal "SHARE" of himself in flesh. ok, how is he the EQUAL "share". scripture,
Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God".

notice the scripture said "equal" WITH God and not equal "to" God. this shows that the Lord Jesus is not a separate distinct Person. alright if he "EQUAL" with how so?. glad you asked.

here's how he's EQUAL "WITH". see that word "form" in the verse, that's the key to understanding our Lord Jesus as God in flesh. "Form" here is the Greek word,
G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
Root(s): G3313

The Form of God is as definition #2 states, his "NATURE", so what is God's NATURE? answer,
John 4:24a "God is a Spirit". ok, so how is Jesus Nature EQUAL to God the "Spirit" NATURE?, notice "S" in Spirit is capitalized, and remember God is "a", not "many" but "A" meaning ONE Spirit. in the definition of "Form" according to Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments, God's as well as the Lord Jesus NATURE is define in the Root word for "FORM" G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n. which means,
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).
another word for "Portion" is "SHARE". this is how our Lord Jesus is equal "WITH" God. but the question that needs to be answer now is this. "How is Jesus, who is the (Spirit) equally "shared" in flesh and bone as stated in, (Philippians 2:7 & 8), and is still God when he has spatial, meaning in time and space, as a man". good question, me, I can answer quickly, " Intrinsic Spatial", but I want to go by the Bible so that you can see it from scriptures. the apostle Paul said he showed it to us from the begining, listen.
Romans 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. (what did he show?).

Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

see, there is no excuse for not knowing. lets understand, what did God (A) Make,that is (B) Manifested in us? God made (A) MAN, "ADAM", and what was manifested IN Adam? the Answer (B) "ANOTHER" Adam/MAN the woman. two ADAMS which are the SAME.

but how are we to understand these TWO when GOD is ONE, an H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym also. the definition of ADAM in the Hebrew is, H120 אָדָם 'adam (aw-dawm') n-m.
ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.).
[from H119]
KJV: X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.

there it is, "ANOTHER", see the woman is a NUMERICAL DIFFERENCE, or ANOTHER "WITH" the First Adam, for she CAME FROM the "First" MAN/ADAM.

but they are numerical difference, meaning TWO, in Flesh, but not in spirit. now how do this apply to the Lord Jesus, who is the Share of God, or "ANOTHER" of God himself in flesh.

ok, the Greek words for this sharing, or "ANOTHER" of the same PERSON is G243 ALLOS and G2087 HETEROS, which means, according to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, both have a difference in meaning, which despite a tendency to be lost, is to be observed in numerous passages. Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort;" heteros expresses a qualitative difference and denotes "another of a different sort."

so Allos G243, "expresses a numerical difference". a numerical difference means more than one like in Father and Son, (the elohiym of God), but G243 Allos also say "the SAME" sort. so what is the sort? according to dictionary.com, SORT: 1. a particular kind, species, variety, class, or group, distinguished by a common character or nature:
2. character, quality, or nature:

NATURE? there's that NATURE which Philippians 2:6 says he has. and in the same "Sort" or class, or group or KIND, "THE GOD KIND", which makes him "EQUAL" with God in NATURE. and by the sharing of himself in flesh, he's God in flesh. also by being in "ANOTHER" or taking on another nature, he's the numerical difference, or the another of himself in flesh. meaning GOD is an H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym of himself in flesh, meaning more than one but the same PERSON, only SHARED. that means he's the EQUAL "SHARE" of himself in Flesh.

so what's the Mystery?, here it is in a nutshell. "SHARE" not SEPARATION. when one understand this concept then the whole bible opens up.

one might ask me, how did you get to this conclusion. answer, the Holy Ghost will teach you. but here's something all christian need to know in order for the bible to be open unto you. all christian, myself included did not understand this one scripture, Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure".

knowing this, one can understand from the begining when God said "let us?", yes us then, because he was to come in flesh, scripture,
Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

see, God was to Come in flesh, hence the "US" in Genesis 1:26, for the figure was TO COME. GOD SPEAK OF ALL TIME AS ONE TIME TO HIM, that's why we have prophecy as a help and a guide to understand the things of God.

God spoke of himself in flesh before he "share" himself in it. "our" image is "ANOTHER" of himself in flesh, which Adam means "another" which was to come, "THE LAST ADAM". Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure". hence we have the "REVEALING or the Revelation of JESUS the Christ, GOD IN FLESH. what a mighty God we serve.

but some icicing on the cake. why is the Lord Jesus is called "Son?".

knowing that Jesus is the SAME "SORT" of the Spirit. remember, according to dictionary.com, SORT: 1. a particular kind, species, variety, class, or group, distinguished by a common character or nature:
2. character, quality, or nature:

what do "character" siginfy metaphorically in the BIBLE? answer, G5207, huios SON.... :cool:

Jesus is the "Son" of God. scripture,
Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high".

"express image" is, G5481 χαρακτήρ charakter (cha-rak-teer') n.
1. an engraver (the tool or the person).
2. (by implication) an engraving.
3. (hence) a “character,” the figure stamped.
4. (by extension) an exact copy.
5. (figuratively) a representation.
[from charasso “to sharpen to a point” (akin to G1125 through the idea of scratching)]
KJV: express image

see, the Lord JESUS is the physical "Expression" of the invisible God/Spirit Character, who is "LOVE", for God is LOVE. the invisible God "express" himself, (which is LOVE) in a phyical body, Giving "himself" as the sacarfice for our sins.

Now stranger, I took my time from memory, and not from my notes to post this. I hope you read and if nessary re-read it for edification. I hope you take your time as well and read this post. if you have any question, please just ask.

PICJAG.
 
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101G

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101G

Your question, who sent their angel..
Answer, Jesus.

Rev 22
[16] I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things...

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken
THANK you, for he JESUS is the God/Spirit of the OT, without flesh and blood and as well as the NT in flesh and bone, shared. the SAME person.

not a Father and a Son who is separate, but the same person "SHARED" in flesh.

I hope you read Post #79.

by knowing that Jesus is the "SHARE" of the ONE SAME Person, all the hard to answer question in the bible evaporate, and become clear.

so thank you.
 
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