Who is Jesus Christ?

[Episkopos]

Yes, Jesus Christ is the Son of God made flesh. But, He was the Son, before He was made flesh. See (Prov. 30:4). "...what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?"

The Son is never the Father.

Stranger

What you can't say is...Jesus was never the Father. God has said..."Today I have begotten You"...which hearkens back to a time where God divided Himself to give Himself a Son.

In the OT the Name YHVH is both the Father and the Son (a number of verses state this by the wording)...until the "separation" whereby God the Father becomes the Most High. Jesus then becomes the Mediator between God and His creation.

God has upped the ante in the NT by giving us the grace to walk as Jesus did....precisely because God's revealed holiness makes it more difficult to obey the law that people once sought to obey in the power of the flesh.

 

[Taken]

THANK you, for he JESUS is the God/Spirit of the OT, without flesh and blood and as well as the NT in flesh and bone, shared. the SAME person.

not a Father and a Son who is separate, but the same person "SHARED" in flesh.

I hope you read Post #79.

by knowing that Jesus is the "SHARE" of the ONE SAME Person, all the hard to answer question in the bible evaporate, and become clear.

so thank you.

In Brief.

The WHOLE of Scripture is about discovery of Knowledge, and like a human babe, who gets little bits and pieces of information at a time, so also do humans, regardless of age, when learning about this Spirit we call God.

The Father is distinguished as this Eternal unseen, unheard, Heavenly Holy thing, sitting in His Throne (which is Heaven), who has created and made things for His pleasure, that He sits and keeps watch over.

The term FATHER, was a term God gave to mankind, to distinguish the male parent from the female parent, and the Father, as the Head of the Household/tribe, family, servants, etc.

It was Moses who First referenced the Heavenly God as "THY FATHER" over all.

Gods teaching referenced MEN as a father.
Gen 2
[24] Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Moses' teaching referenced God as Thy father.
Deut 32
[6] Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he "thy father" that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?

God had not introduced Himself or called Himself "thy Father".

So what about "the Son" ?
Well first the history is, ancient OT believing men, who were supposed to be teaching others, became frustrated, teaching Gods Words and people couldn't grasp, without SEEING something. Moses, asked, Job asked God, show us SOMETHING. And that is where the "Messiah" comes in. A promise from God, that He would reveal "something" for men TO SEE.

"SOMETHING" to SEE...God as He is...uh, a human man would instantly become burned to ash. Humm.
Scripture tells us;
1) Gods WORD is in HIS MOUTH, and comes forth out of HIS own MOUTH.
2) Gods WORD was sent to the earth, IN THE FASHION as a MAN.
3) God PREPARED a BODY for HIS WORD, for WHEN it would COME into this World.
4) Gods WORD took that BODY upon Himself.

(Clue, something is UNDER that body, He took upon Himself)...something we CAN NOT SEE.

The Son is called the Son, BECAUSE God said so! God Declared it. God said He (GOD), would BE a FATHER, to He (GODS WORD) whom GOD Sent to earth in the likeness as a man TO be SEEN and HEARD. And God said...CALL HIM JESUS.

WHILE Jesus was on Earth, bit by bit, His Power is revealed. He speaks with authority of God, He heals, He performs miracles....
THAT IS CHRIST, being REVEALED, IN JESUS.

CHRIST IS the POWER of God.

Remember...God said to HONOR thy FATHER?
Yet thee Father God in Heaven reveals He HONORS "His" Son, and the Son on Earth reveals He HONORS "His" Father in Heaven.

They (Father & Son) ARE ONE SAME GOD, And the same ONE Christ, that is Gods POWER.

God did not HAVE A BABY, He can not LITERALLY have a BABY. That is impossible.
Because God has no Beginning, THUS, He can not reproduce something, with NO Beginning.

Jesus is the Name of Gods Word, that came forth out from God.
Christ is the Name of Gods Power, that comes forth out from Jesus, forward to any man who elects to be Baptized with the Holy Spirit.

INANUTSHELL, it is the principle that men are corrupt, and God is TOO HOLY to be contaminated by being in the EYE view of a man, (WITHOUT a sheid, cover, cloud, prepared body....Something, to shield a mans natural eyes from looking upon God).

One day, when a mans body is Glorified, He will see the Lord God and HE IS, and HIS NAME WILL BE ONE.

If there is a statement here you can not find verified in Scripture...Quote me the Statement and I look up the Scripture and show you.

May the Lord God Almighty, bless you wholly,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[Stranger]

101G

You said a whole lot yet avoided my questions.

If you are a believer then you are born-again. Christ is in you and you are in Christ. Correct? Now, do you cease to be you because Christ is in you and you in Christ? Are you just Christ with a body?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

What you can't say is...Jesus was never the Father. God has said..."Today I have begotten You"...which hearkens back to a time where God divided Himself to give Himself a Son.

In the OT the Name YHVH is both the Father and the Son (a number of verses state this by the wording)...until the "separation" whereby God the Father becomes the Most High. Jesus then becomes the Mediator between God and His creation.

God has upped the ante in the NT by giving us the grace to walk as Jesus did....precisely because God's revealed holiness makes it more difficult to obey the law that people once sought to obey in the power of the flesh.

The Son, as always existing with the Father as God the Son, was never the Father. The Son Who was given a body, Who we know as Jesus Christ was never the Father.

The Father does not cease to be God. The Son does not cease to be God. They are not two God's. The Father is in the Son and the Son in the Father. (John 14:9) (John 14:7) (John 10:30)

So, I'm not sure what you are implying with this 'separation'.

Stranger

 

[101G]

In Brief.

The WHOLE of Scripture is about discovery of Knowledge, and like a human babe, who gets little bits and pieces of information at a time, so also do humans, regardless of age, when learning about this Spirit we call God.

The Father is distinguished as this Eternal unseen, unheard, Heavenly Holy thing, sitting in His Throne (which is Heaven), who has created and made things for His pleasure, that He sits and keeps watch over.

The term FATHER, was a term God gave to mankind, to distinguish the male parent from the female parent, and the Father, as the Head of the Household/tribe, family, servants, etc.

It was Moses who First referenced the Heavenly God as "THY FATHER" over all.

Gods teaching referenced MEN as a father.
Gen 2
[24] Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Moses' teaching referenced God as Thy father.
Deut 32
[6] Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he "thy father" that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?

God had not introduced Himself or called Himself "thy Father".

So what about "the Son" ?
Well first the history is, ancient OT believing men, who were supposed to be teaching others, became frustrated, teaching Gods Words and people couldn't grasp, without SEEING something. Moses, asked, Job asked God, show us SOMETHING. And that is where the "Messiah" comes in. A promise from God, that He would reveal "something" for men TO SEE.

"SOMETHING" to SEE...God as He is...uh, a human man would instantly become burned to ash. Humm.
Scripture tells us;
1) Gods WORD is in HIS MOUTH, and comes forth out of HIS own MOUTH.
2) Gods WORD was sent to the earth, IN THE FASHION as a MAN.
3) God PREPARED a BODY for HIS WORD, for WHEN it would COME into this World.
4) Gods WORD took that BODY upon Himself.

(Clue, something is UNDER that body, He took upon Himself)...something we CAN NOT SEE.

The Son is called the Son, BECAUSE God said so! God Declared it. God said He (GOD), would BE a FATHER, to He (GODS WORD) whom GOD Sent to earth in the likeness as a man TO be SEEN and HEARD. And God said...CALL HIM JESUS.

WHILE Jesus was on Earth, bit by bit, His Power is revealed. He speaks with authority of God, He heals, He performs miracles....
THAT IS CHRIST, being REVEALED, IN JESUS.

CHRIST IS the POWER of God.

Remember...God said to HONOR thy FATHER?
Yet thee Father God in Heaven reveals He HONORS "His" Son, and the Son on Earth reveals He HONORS "His" Father in Heaven.

They (Father & Son) ARE ONE SAME GOD, And the same ONE Christ, that is Gods POWER.

God did not HAVE A BABY, He can not LITERALLY have a BABY. That is impossible.
Because God has no Beginning, THUS, He can not reproduce something, with NO Beginning.

Jesus is the Name of Gods Word, that came forth out from God.
Christ is the Name of Gods Power, that comes forth out from Jesus, forward to any man who elects to be Baptized with the Holy Spirit.

INANUTSHELL, it is the principle that men are corrupt, and God is TOO HOLY to be contaminated by being in the EYE view of a man, (WITHOUT a sheid, cover, cloud, prepared body....Something, to shield a mans natural eyes from looking upon God).

One day, when a mans body is Glorified, He will see the Lord God and HE IS, and HIS NAME WILL BE ONE.

If there is a statement here you can not find verified in Scripture...Quote me the Statement and I look up the Scripture and show you.

May the Lord God Almighty, bless you wholly,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

First, thanks for the reply.
I agree,

May I add something also. the term "Father" can also be use as "First" or the "Source", be ye human or divine. example, Abraham on Earth, is called the "Father" of us the Faithful.
Romans 4:16 "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all". or Adah, who was the first that dwelleth in tents,
Genesis 4:20 "And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle".

or God who is the Father of EVERYTHING. example, James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning".

here God, the Spirit, is called the Father of "Lights", meaning he's the Father of the Stars and the sun and the moon. if one would go to the Blue Letter Bible online, or have Thayer's Greek Definitions dictionary, Just look up the term G3962 πατήρ pater, beside what it is used for in biological terms, look at definition #3.
3. God is called the Father
a. of the stars, the heavenly luminaries, because he is their creator, upholder, ruler

God is called the Father of the stars, the actual stars in the heavens, and the heavenly luminaries. what are the heavenly luminaries? dicitonary.com type in "luminary" and this is what you get. 1. a celestial body, as the sun or moon. 2. a body, object, etc., that gives light.

as the definition states, "because he is their creator, upholder, ruler", and Jesus sustain all things, why? because he made all things, John 1:3, Isaiah 44:24, Isaiah 42:5, Isaiah 45:18

or Isaiah 51:13 which one need to compare to Hebrew 1:10 and Zechariah 12:1

this ia all JESUS doing, whom he is not called JESUS then in the OT, because he had not yet come or MANIFESTED in flesh yet, so the title "Spirit" God was used.

but when he did come in Flesh, now the term Son is used in Conjunction of Father in the OT. for the Son expressed or did the Father will, or WORK. meaning to die for our sins. the term Son is expressed in another way to understand, scripture,
Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me".

notice his "own" arm brought SALVATION unto himself. my God it's plain as day. his onw ARN (Son) brought Salvation to himself. there it is in black and white.

so yes I agree that the Father and the son are "ONE" in the Same.

 

[Episkopos]

The Son, as always existing with the Father as God the Son, was never the Father. The Son Who was given a body, Who we know as Jesus Christ was never the Father.

The Father does not cease to be God. The Son does not cease to be God. They are not two God's. The Father is in the Son and the Son in the Father. (John 14:9) (John 14:7) (John 10:30)

So, I'm not sure what you are implying with this 'separation'.

Stranger

Your first statement is from your own opinion.....as you will not be able to show from the bible what you have accepted to be true. Do you just ignore where God says TODAY I have begotten you???? You tend to follow opinion and reject the biblical evidence that your opinions is...well...just an armchair opinion.

The Father and the Son are separate and distinct persons...each with a will that is subordinated to the other.

Jesus said...YOUR will be done...not OUR will be done. (this is from the bible)

I can show that what I say is from the bible. it is not based on a personal opinion.

 

[Taken]

First, thanks for the reply.
I agree,

May I add something also. the term "Father" can also be use as "First" or the "Source", be ye human or divine. example, Abraham on Earth, is called the "Father" of us the Faithful.
Romans 4:16 "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all". or Adah, who was the first that dwelleth in tents,
Genesis 4:20 "And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle".

or God who is the Father of EVERYTHING. example, James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning".

here God, the Spirit, is called the Father of "Lights", meaning he's the Father of the Stars and the sun and the moon. if one would go to the Blue Letter Bible online, or have Thayer's Greek Definitions dictionary, Just look up the term G3962 πατήρ pater, beside what it is used for in biological terms, look at definition #3.
3. God is called the Father
a. of the stars, the heavenly luminaries, because he is their creator, upholder, ruler

God is called the Father of the stars, the actual stars in the heavens, and the heavenly luminaries. what are the heavenly luminaries? dicitonary.com type in "luminary" and this is what you get. 1. a celestial body, as the sun or moon. 2. a body, object, etc., that gives light.

as the definition states, "because he is their creator, upholder, ruler", and Jesus sustain all things, why? because he made all things, John 1:3, Isaiah 44:24, Isaiah 42:5, Isaiah 45:18

or Isaiah 51:13 which one need to compare to Hebrew 1:10 and Zechariah 12:1

this ia all JESUS doing, whom he is not called JESUS then in the OT, because he had not yet come or MANIFESTED in flesh yet, so the title "Spirit" God was used.

but when he did come in Flesh, now the term Son is used in Conjunction of Father in the OT. for the Son expressed or did the Father will, or WORK. meaning to die for our sins. the term Son is expressed in another way to understand, scripture,
Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me".

notice his "own" arm brought SALVATION unto himself. my God it's plain as day. his onw ARN (Son) brought Salvation to himself. there it is in black and white.

so yes I agree that the Father and the son are "ONE" in the Same.

Thanks for your reply and effort to post some Scriptures.

Personally, I enjoy going through the Scriptures step by step of the ORDER God revealed concerning His creations, and each KIND of thing, and the multiple NAMES and TITLES attributed to ONE Specificc.

It reveals so much information and knowledge and understanding that the BIG Picture, while complicated to explain, is so simple with Gods input, to understand.

It IS what it IS, According to God, and not what we think it should be, or can't be, or someone else has said what they "think".

Isa 45
[23] I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth..

Isa 55 [11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Where DID God Send HIS WORD that came forth OUT of HIS MOUTH?

Luke 1
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

John 16 [27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[101G]

Amen, I agree.

Luke 1
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

now watch this in Matthews,

Matthew 1:19 "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.

Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 1:21 "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

notice verse #20, "for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost". if someone is the conceiver, is they not the "FATHER?" ......

right in the scriptures it tells u who the Father is.

yes, I love going through the scriptures also to let them reveal Golden nuggets of information.

be blessed.

 

[Taken]

Amen, I agree.

now watch this in Matthews,

Matthew 1:19 "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.

Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 1:21 "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

notice verse #20, "for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost". if someone is the conceiver, is they not the "FATHER?" ......

right in the scriptures it tells u who the Father is.

yes, I love going through the scriptures also to let them reveal Golden nuggets of information.

be blessed.

Yes.

No Conception, ie the process of a male fertilizing a female egg.

Conceived (pregnant) in her womb, Yes.

The word of God came forth out of Gods mouth, and by the Power of God, entered Mary's virgin Womb, and according to Law (of nature), 9 months later, From Mary's womb came forth Jesus, the Word of God, in a body Prepared of God. And according to Jewish Law, Jesus was Jewish, as are all babes who come forth out of a Jewish Woman, and according to Gentile Civil Law, Jesus having come forth from Mary a Jew, and her Husband Joseph a Jew, Jesus was a Jew, Mary and Joseph His parents, and His parents citizens of Nazareth, Jesus was legally a Nazarene, even though He was revealed born in Bethlehem, in the City of David, ie Jerusalem.

When the Lords Kingdom comes to EARTH, He who will SIT as KING, (on King Davids Everlasting throne, as established by God)...
MUST fuflill the LAW to be QUALIFIED to sit on King Davids THRONE.

He Must be the Lord God...for it to BE HIS Kingdom.
He MUST be Jewish to SIT on King David the Jews, Throne.

Saying..when people think of Jesus fulfilling the LAW, they think of Prophecy/Scripture.

Jesus fulfilled CIVIL and RELIGIOUS Laws as well, the moment He was revealed born on earth.

And agree, The Word of God has been coming forth out of Gods mouth from the Beginning of His Creation...
Gen 1:3
[3] And God said...

And many times Gods Word appeared as "The Angel of the Lord". Not an angel, or mine angel...THE Angel of the Lord.

And yes His name was kept secret.

Judg 13
[18] And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?

John 14
[7] If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
[8] Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

I am thinking ...
DUDE...come on...get it...
You are LOOKING at the Father!

God Bless,
Taken

 

[101G]

Yes.

No Conception, ie the process of a male fertilizing a female egg.

Conceived (pregnant) in her womb, Yes.

The word of God came forth out of Gods mouth, and by the Power of God, entered Mary's virgin Womb, and according to Law (of nature), 9 months later, From Mary's womb came forth Jesus, the Word of God, in a body Prepared of God. And according to Jewish Law, Jesus was Jewish, as are all babes who come forth out of a Jewish Woman, and according to Gentile Civil Law, Jesus having come forth from Mary a Jew, and her Husband Joseph a Jew, Jesus was a Jew, Mary and Joseph His parents, and His parents citizens of Nazareth, Jesus was legally a Nazarene, even though He was revealed born in Bethlehem, in the City of David, ie Jerusalem.

When the Lords Kingdom comes to EARTH, He who will SIT as KING, (on King Davids Everlasting throne, as established by God)...
MUST fuflill the LAW to be QUALIFIED to sit on King Davids THRONE.

He Must be the Lord God...for it to BE HIS Kingdom.
He MUST be Jewish to SIT on King David the Jews, Throne.

Saying..when people think of Jesus fulfilling the LAW, they think of Prophecy/Scripture.

Jesus fulfilled CIVIL and RELIGIOUS Laws as well, the moment He was revealed born on earth.

And agree, The Word of God has been coming forth out of Gods mouth from the Beginning of His Creation...
Gen 1:3
[3] And God said...

And many times Gods Word appeared as "The Angel of the Lord". Not an angel, or mine angel...THE Angel of the Lord.

And yes His name was kept secret.

Judg 13
[18] And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?

John 14
[7] If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
[8] Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

I am thinking ...
DUDE...come on...get it...
You are LOOKING at the Father!

God Bless,
Taken

Amen, this is the kind of discussion christian should be enguage in, Iron sharping Iorn.
I want to take what you said one point at a time.

No Conception, ie the process of a male fertilizing a female egg.

Conceived (pregnant) in her womb, Yes.

Correct, only in SOURCE, supportive scripture,
Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing, (thing, here means flesh), which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God". notice shall be called, not named, but called the Son of God, (flesh is born), Son of God means flesh on earth. go back to Isaiah. 9:6, "unto us a child is born". but the "Son" is Given, never born. so Son of God means, flesh in nature, a nature that will suffer the cross.
note also the word overshadow, it's the Greek word G1982 ἐπισκιάζω episkiazo (ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo) v.
1. to cast a shade upon
2. (by analogy) to envelop in a haze of brilliancy
3. (figuratively) to invest with preternatural influence

take note of the 3rd. reference. "to invest with preternatural influence", what do preternatural means. the meaning here, not in the natural way of conception between a man and a women. "out of the ordinary course of nature". this body as I have said, God conceived or God made, and “formed” in Mary’s womb. Did he not formed Jeremiah body in his mothers womb before he was born, or brought forth?. Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations". the same with the child Jesus body.
for the scripture states, "prepare me a body"', Hebrews 10:5. notice it said prepare, not create a body. because God always existed, and by making or preparing a body as he did Adam's with preexisting material, earth. God, with his pre-existence, the first law of thermodynamic is not violated, and as he did with the heaven, as well with the earth, he can make, perpare anything he wants (John 1:3). so that body/flesh was prepared/made from the invisible, made he it visible. The flesh/body was made visible to enclosed the spirit, or the Shared spirit that was in it, or the diversified state of himself that was to come, Romans 5:14b. so, (again the “us”, and the “our” in Genesis 1:26). the Word simply means the expression or the characteristics of his thought made manifested, (John 1:1). what do this mean, it is the abstract of the concrete/God/Spirit, or the expression of God’s thoughts made known. in layman terms, a way for God/the Spirit to make his thought known unto man, meaning, he, God the Spirit, the invisible one manifesting his thoughts, his will, his mind in a concrete fashion here on earth.

I'm going to be out for a while, we can continue tommorrow evening.

Be blessed.

 

[Taken]

Amen, this is the kind of discussion christian should be enguage in, Iron sharping Iorn.
I want to take what you said one point at a time.

Correct, only in SOURCE, supportive scripture,
Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing, (thing, here means flesh), which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God". notice shall be called, not named, but called the Son of God, (flesh is born), Son of God means flesh on earth. go back to Isaiah. 9:6, "unto us a child is born". but the "Son" is Given, never born. so Son of God means, flesh in nature, a nature that will suffer the cross.
note also the word overshadow, it's the Greek word G1982 ἐπισκιάζω episkiazo (ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo) v.
1. to cast a shade upon
2. (by analogy) to envelop in a haze of brilliancy
3. (figuratively) to invest with preternatural influence

take note of the 3rd. reference. "to invest with preternatural influence", what do preternatural means. the meaning here, not in the natural way of conception between a man and a women. "out of the ordinary course of nature". this body as I have said, God conceived or God made, and “formed” in Mary’s womb. Did he not formed Jeremiah body in his mothers womb before he was born, or brought forth?. Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations". the same with the child Jesus body.
for the scripture states, "prepare me a body"', Hebrews 10:5. notice it said prepare, not create a body. because God always existed, and by making or preparing a body as he did Adam's with preexisting material, earth. God, with his pre-existence, the first law of thermodynamic is not violated, and as he did with the heaven, as well with the earth, he can make, perpare anything he wants (John 1:3). so that body/flesh was prepared/made from the invisible, made he it visible. The flesh/body was made visible to enclosed the spirit, or the Shared spirit that was in it, or the diversified state of himself that was to come, Romans 5:14b. so, (again the “us”, and the “our” in Genesis 1:26). the Word simply means the expression or the characteristics of his thought made manifested, (John 1:1). what do this mean, it is the abstract of the concrete/God/Spirit, or the expression of God’s thoughts made known. in layman terms, a way for God/the Spirit to make his thought known unto man, meaning, he, God the Spirit, the invisible one manifesting his thoughts, his will, his mind in a concrete fashion here on earth.

I'm going to be out for a while, we can continue tommorrow evening.

Be blessed.

Amen!

John 1
[13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Stranger]

Your first statement is from your own opinion.....as you will not be able to show from the bible what you have accepted to be true. Do you just ignore where God says TODAY I have begotten you???? You tend to follow opinion and reject the biblical evidence that your opinions is...well...just an armchair opinion.

The Father and the Son are separate and distinct persons...each with a will that is subordinated to the other.

Jesus said...YOUR will be done...not OUR will be done. (this is from the bible)

I can show that what I say is from the bible. it is not based on a personal opinion.

When is 'Today I have begotten you'?

No, the Son always submits to the Father.

Stranger

 

[Waiting on him]

When is 'Today I have begotten you'?

No, the Son always submits to the Father.

Stranger

 

[Waiting on him]

Jesus is Lord!!!! To answer the question ,and I can only say this by his spirit

 

[Stranger]

The verse containing the phrase 'Today I have begotten you', is found in (Ps. 2:7). " I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."

If you have a study Bible, there should be a note with that verse that directs you to (Acts 13:33). There we are told that the 'when' of the Son being begotten is at the resurrection of Jesus Christ. "God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee."

God the Son always existed with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. He was never begotten as He always existed.

The Son's entrance into the human race at the virgin birth is not the time when God said 'today have I begotten thee'. He was the Son, yes, with a human body, who we know as Jesus Christ. But 'being begotten by God' was an action reserved for the resurrection.

There, at the resurrection, the Holy Spirit meshed or welded, for lack of a better word, that Spirit of Christ with His body raising Him from the dead. The resurrection is the birthing room. Jesus Christ is literally born-again. Thus, the Son is begotten. And now other sons and daughters will be born unto God also, in this same way. (1 Peter 1:3) "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."

So, the Son being 'begotten' refers to the Son partaking of a body, and more specifically, to the resurrection of that body. The Son as God, was never begotten.

Stranger

 

[Taken]

God has said..."Today I have begotten You"...which hearkens back to a time where God divided Himself to give Himself a Son.

Got your meaning...
But disagree with your choice of words.

God divided Himself

Gods WORD IS God.
God SENDING His Word forth out from Him, does not DIVIDE God "from" His own Word.
Gods OWN Word is still IN God.

On this forum, YOU send forth your word out of your own mouth. Yet your word is still IN you. You are not divided from your own word.

On this forum, YOU "call" your sent forth word, Episkopos.

In Scripture God says, "call" His sent forth word, Jesus, Son of God, Christ.

If you were VISIBLE, I'm sure your IMAGE, would be that, which is "called" by others NAMES, by other people.

God has an IMAGE, that is not VISIBLE for mankind TO SEE.

Gods IMAGE, can be SEEN, by that which IS holy. Ie Holy Angels.

Gods Word, came forth out from Gods mouth, and was COVERED with a BODY, for the express purpose, that MANKIND, "could See", "something" that mankind was Familiar with, could recognize, and could LOOK UPON, and could HEAR.

Gods Word "manifested" IN the flesh Likeness as a man, for a man TO SEE, and HEAR, and OBSERVE.

1) fulfilled Gods Promise for men to SEE
2) fulfilled Gods Desire for men to HEAR the Truth of God first hand out of Gods Mouth.
3) fulfilled mans yearning for an Example TO SEE.
4) fulfilled Gods Desire for men to Spread His Word across the World, via Their Testimony, of what Men, Saw, Heard, Observed.

Remember; God is Everywhere.
Remember; God is not Divided FROM Himself.
Remember; A man shall prosper, when Gods Word IS in a man.
Remember: God Named His Word, JESUS, and Jesus notifies us, God Word IS STILL IN God, even when His Word is sent forth out from His mouth.


Isa 55:[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

John 14
[11] Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me:

And the Same applies to Gods Spirit, called by the Name Christ, called Light, called Power.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[VictoryinJesus]

(Matt. 16:13) "...Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?"

(Matt. 16:15) "...whom say ye that I am?

Peter answered, "...Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

(Matt. 16:17), "...Blessed art thou Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Are they not the same?

Stranger

You have asked elsewhere in the thread what else does a person need to know or do other than: Peter answered, "...Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

(Matt. 16:17), "...Blessed art thou Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

In Mark 3:9-12 the word says: “And he spake to his disciples, that a small ship should wait on him because of the multitude, lest they should throng him. [10] For he had healed many; insomuch that they pressed upon him for to touch him, as many as had plagues.

[11] And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God. [12] And he straitly charged them that they should not make him known.

“And the unclean spirits ...fell down before him, and cried Thou art the Son of God.” ... and he charged them they should not make him known.

 

[CoreIssue]

Got your meaning...
But disagree with your choice of words.



Gods WORD IS God.
God SENDING His Word forth out from Him, does not DIVIDE God "from" His own Word.
Gods OWN Word is still IN God.

On this forum, YOU send forth your word out of your own mouth. Yet your word is still IN you. You are not divided from your own word.

On this forum, YOU "call" your sent forth word, Episkopos.

In Scripture God says, "call" His sent forth word, Jesus, Son of God, Christ.

If you were VISIBLE, I'm sure your IMAGE, would be that, which is "called" by others NAMES, by other people.

God has an IMAGE, that is not VISIBLE for mankind TO SEE.

Gods IMAGE, can be SEEN, by that which IS holy. Ie Holy Angels.

Gods Word, came forth out from Gods mouth, and was COVERED with a BODY, for the express purpose, that MANKIND, "could See", "something" that mankind was Familiar with, could recognize, and could LOOK UPON, and could HEAR.

Gods Word "manifested" IN the flesh Likeness as a man, for a man TO SEE, and HEAR, and OBSERVE.

1) fulfilled Gods Promise for men to SEE
2) fulfilled Gods Desire for men to HEAR the Truth of God first hand out of Gods Mouth.
3) fulfilled mans yearning for an Example TO SEE.
4) fulfilled Gods Desire for men to Spread His Word across the World, via Their Testimony, of what Men, Saw, Heard, Observed.

Remember; God is Everywhere.
Remember; God is not Divided FROM Himself.
Remember; A man shall prosper, when Gods Word IS in a man.
Remember: God Named His Word, JESUS, and Jesus notifies us, God Word IS STILL IN God, even when His Word is sent forth out from His mouth.


Isa 55:[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

John 14
[11] Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me:

And the Same applies to Gods Spirit, called by the Name Christ, called Light, called Power.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

You have a problem with your argument. The Greek Word does not mean spoken. Logos means the reason behind existence, not a verbal description of it spoken from the mouth..

The second person of the Trinity is that reason because creation was built around his incarnating in human flesh with all the implications that action contains.

The second person of the Trinity did not come out of the father's mouth because he is God, just as our the father and the Holy Spirit. They are individually God and together God. But none created the other.

So don't confuse the Word with words, which you have clearly done here.

 

[Taken]

You have a problem with your argument. The Greek Word does not mean spoken.

No, I do not have a problem.
Nor did I talk about Greek Speak.

Logos means the reason behind existence,

So? I didn't mention that.

not a verbal description of it spoken from the mouth..

I did not mention verbal.

The second person of the Trinity is that reason because creation was built around his incarnating in human flesh with all the implications that action contains.

God Created for His Pleasure.
HOW God created is With His Word and Power.

The second person of the Trinity did not come out of the father's mouth because he is God, just as our the father and the Holy Spirit.

Gods Word came forth out of God's Mouth.
By Study of Scripture, you would find revealed, when Gods Word out of His mouth;
Is Verbal
Or
Appears as something Visible;
A Writing, A Spirit, A Man

Isa 45
[23] I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Isa.48
[3] I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass.

Isa.55
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

So don't confuse the Word with words, which you have clearly done here.

No. You have clearly said;

verbal, and logos.

I didn't.

Taken

 

[Stranger]

You have asked elsewhere in the thread what else does a person need to know or do other than: Peter answered, "...Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

(Matt. 16:17), "...Blessed art thou Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

In Mark 3:9-12 the word says: “And he spake to his disciples, that a small ship should wait on him because of the multitude, lest they should throng him. [10] For he had healed many; insomuch that they pressed upon him for to touch him, as many as had plagues.

[11] And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God. [12] And he straitly charged them that they should not make him known.

“And the unclean spirits ...fell down before him, and cried Thou art the Son of God.” ... and he charged them they should not make him known.

You are correct in what I have asked. What is your point in the verses you give?

Stranger