Who is the Little Horn of Daniel?

[Taken]

Enoch ~

Would say, Horns represent Power.
Historically Empires have ruled the WORLD.
All Enpires with WORLD Rule have fallen to defeat of other Empires.....except the;
Roman Empire, which fell from within.

For centuries we have had several WORLD POWER Nations.

Chinese, UK, Russia, US....either in alliance or not allies. All sitting at the same round-table of "DIPLOMACY" / "TREATIES" / smiling, shaking hands, making agreements....

And every Nation; spying, black ops, carrying on AS IF, the "TREATIES" are being HONORED by all!! While each nation, continues to "push" world wide, their OWN AGENDA...
.......SUPER POWER NATION !!

The UN was to bring ALL nations in agreement.

The EU was to bring a REVIVIAL to the Power the Roman Empire enjoyed; with a LEAGUE of a few Nations BANDING Together.....

The Roman Empire was the "little Horn" of Daniel. It was the last great World Empire to RISE UP....then implode....

it is the INTENT of the EU POLITICAL rising up AGAIN ....

In conjunction with the intent of the RELIGIOUS rising up AGAIN .... of the JEWS in Jerusalem.... recognized State/Nation; Capital recognition in Jerusalem; Preparations for a New Jewish Temple.

All things Working together; Politically and Religiously....SETTING the Stage For the Anti-Christ to be Introduced to the World;
Being seated in the position of World Leader;
And his side-kick the False Prophet, positioned as World Religious Leader.

God Bless,
taken

 

[Bobby Jo]

... the simple fact that the little horn grew from ...

... the simple premise ... It's not a "fact", it's only a "premise", and it's a false premise. It's neither Scriptural nor Historical, -- but it is a premise --, and we're all entitled to our opinions no matter how false they may be!


Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

... Chinese, UK, Russia, US....
The UN ...

Well you certainly got History right!

...The EU ...

Now you've gone into religious doctrines, -- FALSE doctrines at that!

Perhaps you'd be better off sticking with History and leaving false religious doctrines to the liars!


Bobby Jo

 

[quietthinker]

... the simple premise ... It's not a "fact", it's only a "premise", and it's a false premise. It's neither Scriptural nor Historical, -- but it is a premise --, and we're all entitled to our opinions no matter how false they may be!


Bobby Jo

it's not often that a poster admits the right to be in error.

 

[Taken]

Well you certainly got History right!


Now you've gone into religious doctrines, -- FALSE doctrines at that!


Bobby Jo

Please quote me mentioning a FALSE religious doctrine you think I identified.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Bobby Jo]

it's not often that a poster admits the right to be in error.

No, I say it all the time. People have the RIGHT to be WRONG, -- they just shouldn't abuse it!

It's hard to believe something as clear as Bible Prophecy is such an enigma for so many. And it's not even the complex passages which confuse people, -- some just can't seem to use critical thinking skills, like whether the EU's membership of 28 nation, PLUS 5 Applicant nations, plus 2 Candidate nations (for a total of 34 potential participants) equal the TEN TOES of the image of metals.

There are two years olds that are better at math that some of these self-professed opinion holders.


Bobby Jo

 

[Enoch111]

Even more so with the little horn. Its time span demands a long parade of rulers.

The Bible is very clear. The time span for the Antichrist and Satan to reign on this earth is just 3 1/2 years, 42 months, 1260 days. As stated in the OP:

4. He will have tremendous power on earth for 3 ½ years, but that power will actually be that of Satan: And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people... And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

This corresponds to Revelation 13:5: And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

1260 days/360 = 42 months/12 = 3 1/2 years = time (1 yr) + times (2 years) + the dividing of time (6 months).

This period also coincides with (1) the duration of the two witnesses (prophets) preaching to the Jews in Revelation 11 and (2) the duration of the time that Israel's believing remnant is sheltered in the wilderness (Rev 12).

 

[brakelite]

The Bible is very clear. The time span for the Antichrist and Satan to reign on this earth is just 3 1/2 years, 42 months, 1260 days. As stated in the OP:

4. He will have tremendous power on earth for 3 ½ years, but that power will actually be that of Satan: And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people... And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

This corresponds to Revelation 13:5: And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

1260 days/360 = 42 months/12 = 3 1/2 years = time (1 yr) + times (2 years) + the dividing of time (6 months).

This period also coincides with (1) the duration of the two witnesses (prophets) preaching to the Jews in Revelation 11 and (2) the duration of the time that Israel's believing remnant is sheltered in the wilderness (Rev 12).

Yes, I am aware of the several instances that time span is indicated. Generally speaking, it covers the lifetime of the Antichrist... The time of persecution under the Antichrist less the time it was shortened"lest no-one survive"... And the lifespan of the two witnesses. The question we need to ask, are these time spans literal, or are they prophetically symbolic in some way in keeping with the rest of the prophecy? I know you say they must be literal, but I would ask why must they be? After all, the symbolism of the prophecies in which those times are given, if applied correctly fit neatly into the symbolic paradigm of time...a day for a year... There is not only prophetic precedent, there is historical confirmation.
Support for a literal rendering of those time frames is...

 

[Bobby Jo]

Ummmmmmm, there's a lot of silliness in christian circles. One is that the New Jerusalem is a 1,500 x 1,500 x 1,500 mile "cube", when spheres are the same dimension, -- and GOD doesn't make a lot of cubes, but makes PLENTY of spheres.

Secondly, the days are NOT shortened by the number of hours. ONLY the HOURS OF DAYLIGHT are shortened, due to the smoke and dust in the air caused by global thermonuclear war, which will be so significant that world leaders will stop launching their ICBMs and dropping nuclear bombs before mankind is utterly destroyed.



And for the fun of it, "death will not flee from them". They'll think they're dying with blood oozing out of every orifice, but the human body is designed with such robust healing characteristics that they will survive the initial radiation sickness. It won't be fun and they will seek to DIE as already depicted, but most will survive.


And one more thing, as I understand Bible Prophecy, we ARE in the Tribulation, -- but who cares ...
Bobby Jo

 

[quietthinker]

No, I say it all the time. People have the RIGHT to be WRONG, -- they just shouldn't abuse it!

It's hard to believe something as clear as Bible Prophecy is such an enigma for so many. And it's not even the complex passages which confuse people, -- some just can't seem to use critical thinking skills, like whether the EU's membership of 28 nation, PLUS 5 Applicant nations, plus 2 Candidate nations (for a total of 34 potential participants) equal the TEN TOES of the image of metals.

There are two years olds that are better at math that some of these self-professed opinion holders.


Bobby Jo

It is a certainty that if the scriptures are approached with the same self reliance that philosophy is approached, the result will be
misapprehension. Unless there is a teachable and prayerful attitude when we open the pages of holy writ we are left to flawed human devisings. The confusion and disparity that results is clearly seen on this forum.

 

[Bobby Jo]

It is a certainty that if the scriptures are approached with the same self reliance that philosophy is approached, the result will be
misapprehension. Unless there is a teachable and prayerful attitude when we open the pages of holy writ we are left to flawed human devisings. The confusion and disparity that results is clearly seen on this forum.

The OP question for this forum is the "little horn", which presumes the ELEVENTH "little horn" as referenced in Daniel 7, which is not the same as the "little horn" in Daniel 8.

So I ask you plainly, -- who/what is the ELEVENTH "little horn"? I know the answer, but where you define the "knowledge" critera of "teachable and prayerful", one must presume that you're both, so you should be able to not only Receive the answer, but also Explain that answer.



Or are you the philosophical type, -- sort of like people who can't sing but critique singers; or people who can't play a musical instrument but critique bands; or people who aren't athletic but critique athletes; or my favorite, people who can't do, so they "teach".

Bobby Jo

 

[Enoch111]

Support for a literal rendering of those time frames is...

The support is right there in the different ways that the 3 1/2 years are stated in several passages. Which means that no one should doubt that this period is exactly 42 months. The SDAs (perhaps others) have taken the liberty to convert 1260 days to 1260 years, but the Scriptures will not allow that. Let's look at a few, with *threescore* = 3 x 20 = 60:

But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. (Rev 11:2,3)

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days... And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. (Rev 12:6,14)

REVELATION 13
4 And they worshipped the dragon [SATAN] which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast [THE ANTICHRIST], saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... And they worshiped the dragon [SATAN] which gave power unto the beast: and they worshiped the beast [THE ANTICHRIST], ...

Funny how such simple concepts are so blatantly screwed up.


Oh, well ...
Bobby Jo

 

[quietthinker]

The OP question for this forum is the "little horn", which presumes the ELEVENTH "little horn" as referenced in Daniel 7, which is not the same as the "little horn" in Daniel 8.

So I ask you plainly, -- who/what is the ELEVENTH "little horn"? I know the answer, but where you define the "knowledge" critera of "teachable and prayerful", one must presume that you're both, so you should be able to not only Receive the answer, but also Explain that answer.



Or are you the philosophical type, -- sort of like people who can't sing but critique singers; or people who can't play a musical instrument but critique bands; or people who aren't athletic but critique athletes; or my favorite, people who can't do, so they "teach".

Bobby Jo

Booby Jo, both horns, the little ones referenced in Daniel 7 & 8 are the same, the papal system. In both chapters they persecutes God's people, blaspheme God and carry on through till the return of Jesus.

It's power briefly broken will reestablish itself with stealth. It will come in with unmitigated intensity once it has sufficient leverage.

It is the same power Paul refers to as the man of sin in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12

 

[Bobby Jo]

Booby Jo, both horns, the little ones referenced in Daniel 7 & 8 are the same, the papal system. ...

Well you gave me an answer, but it doesn't appear to match what both Scripture and History support. So to arrive at your conclusion, you MUST first resolve the ram with two horns who are identified as " the kings of Media and Persia". So please tell me who these two kings are (and also which empire, -- for clarity).


Bobby Jo

 

[CoreIssue]

Well you gave me an answer, but it doesn't appear to match what both Scripture and History support. So to arrive at your conclusion, you MUST first resolve the ram with two horns who are identified as " the kings of Media and Persia". So please tell me who these two kings are (and also which empire, -- for clarity).


Bobby Jo

RAM is Greece. The King is Alexander the great.

 

[quietthinker]

Well you gave me an answer, but it doesn't appear to match what both Scripture and History support. So to arrive at your conclusion, you MUST first resolve the ram with two horns who are identified as " the kings of Media and Persia". So please tell me who these two kings are (and also which empire, -- for clarity).


Bobby Jo

The two horns of the ram are indeed the kings of Media and Persia....They equate to Darius the Mede and Cyrus the Persian and no doubt other leaders that followed, the ram representing the Empire.
What are you trying to connect Bobby Jo, in regards to the little horn(s)?

 

[Bobby Jo]

The two horns of the ram are indeed the kings of Media and Persia....They equate to Darius the Mede and Cyrus the Persian and no doubt other leaders that followed, ...

Cyrus we know because the Medo/Persian records are complete, -- but there is NO RECORD of your Darius in Medo/Persian history. Furthermore the first historical account of any dual-monarchy isn't until the Roman Empire:

44 - 31BC -- both Julius Caesar Octavianus Augustus or Octavian and Marcus Antonius (Marc Antony)​

So if what you assert is TRUE, then please provide your HISTORICAL citation. -- Please don't waste our time using a "commentator" who is willing to lie to protect his FALSE agenda.

World History[1] [2]

BC
539 - 530 Cyrus the Great
530 - 522 Cambyses
522 - 486 Darius I (Hystaspes)
486 - 465 Xerxes
465 - 423 Artaxerxes I
423 Xerxes II - few weeks
423 Sogdianus - six months
423 - 404 Darius II
404 - 359 Artaxerxes II
359 - 338 Artaxerxes III (Ochus)
338 Arses
338 - 330 Darius III (Codomanus)

[1] Huot, Jean-Louis, Persia I - From the Origins to the Achaemenids, World Publishing Co., NY, 1965-67, pp. 12, 153-156
[2] Durant, Will, “Story of Civilization: Part I,” Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp 353-354, 381-382​

Bobby Jo

 

[CoreIssue]

Cyrus we know because the Medo/Persian records are complete, -- but there is NO RECORD of your Darius in Medo/Persian history. Furthermore the first historical account of any dual-monarchy isn't until the Roman Empire:

44 - 31BC -- both Julius Caesar Octavianus Augustus or Octavian and Marcus Antonius (Marc Antony)​

So if what you assert is TRUE, then please provide your HISTORICAL citation. -- Please don't waste our time using a "commentator" who is willing to lie to protect his FALSE agenda.

World History[1] [2]

BC
539 - 530 Cyrus the Great
530 - 522 Cambyses
522 - 486 Darius I (Hystaspes)
486 - 465 Xerxes
465 - 423 Artaxerxes I
423 Xerxes II - few weeks
423 Sogdianus - six months
423 - 404 Darius II
404 - 359 Artaxerxes II
359 - 338 Artaxerxes III (Ochus)
338 Arses
338 - 330 Darius III (Codomanus)

[1] Huot, Jean-Louis, Persia I - From the Origins to the Achaemenids, World Publishing Co., NY, 1965-67, pp. 12, 153-156
[2] Durant, Will, “Story of Civilization: Part I,” Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp 353-354, 381-382​

Bobby Jo

The
Second beast of Daniel is Medo Persia. It was a bear.

Third beast is Greece. It was a RAM.

Fourth beast is Rome.

That is the same order of empires found in history.

 

[Enoch111]

Cyrus we know because the Medo/Persian records are complete, -- but there is NO RECORD of your Darius in Medo/Persian history. Furthermore the first historical account of any dual-monarchy isn't until the Roman Empire

Secular and pagan history does not trump Scripture. You say Darius is not recorded in Persian history. That's nonsense.

Darius the Great or Darius I (Old Persian:Dārayava(h)uš, New Persian: داریوش‎ Dāryuš; Hebrew:דָּרְיָוֶשׁ, Modern: Darəyaveš, Tiberian: Dāryāwéš; c. 550–486 BCE) was the fourth Persian king of the Achaemenid Empire. He ruled the empire at its peak, when it included much of West Asia, the Caucasus, parts of the Balkans(Thrace-Macedonia and Paeonia), most of the Black Sea coastal regions, parts of the North Caucasus, Central Asia, as far as the Indus Valley in the far east and portions of north and northeast Africa including Egypt (Mudrâya), eastern Libya and coastal Sudan...

Wikipedia