Who was Job's accuser?

[Stranger]

Because I know of no other instance in scripture or history where a snake conversed with man.

How does that prove satan is a metaphor?

Stranger

 

[jimd]

How does that prove satan is a metaphor?

Stranger

Evidently it doesn't for you and that is fine. We are just swapping opinions, right?

 

[Stranger]

Evidently it doesn't for you and that is fine. We are just swapping opinions, right?

No, you are giving your opinion based on 'nothing' but your opinion. So, again, I ask, how does that prove satan is a metaphor?

Stranger

 

[pia]

You see? That which occurred upon Job, was good. A very important truth for believers to lay hold of

That is certainly a different way of looking at it. Sadly if I was to pass on what Jesus answered me to this question, it would just be booed off the forum anyway ( by most), so I'll keep that to myself...Thanks though

 

[pia]

can't think of one supporting v? hmm. wonder what that means :)
God chastens whom He loves, i guess
and what a mouthful that is, huh

Sorry, I'm not quite with you here. Please can you clarify what you mean? Did you mean I have to try to find scriptures on this subject ? I have been 'chastened' by Him, but it's nothing like what I first thought that word meant...He has such an open and helpful way of correcting me, that there hasn't been a single time, where I haven't been grateful to Him, for doing that for me..:)

 

[pia]

ah, must be fun tryna read me lol, sorry--google could do better imo, but "gauzy, esoteric, hard to get a handle on."

Hi 'bbyrd'.....Thanks for that explanation, that's just fine, I get that now.....
The example you gave about fire and kids, is one the Lord Himself used to show me, how the Law had always been a way to try to protect His children, not to punish them.
I have been so blessed with my two girls as well as my grandson, they have all been quite sensible and willing to listen growing up..even now they will actually listen and take to heart advice given them, which is wonderful, as they have never gotten into any trouble what so ever, Praise His Holy Name !
Also the three of them have been so eager to get to know about Jesus, which is also great for a believing mother..
I agree that God knew mankind would fall, but I certainly do not believe that God MADE them do it...I understand that there are things we will have a hard time understanding, as God sees the whole picture, and we only see a fraction, but we must not see our loving Father as some two faced monster, which I really believe a lot of Christians do, who do a thing one way one time, and the opposite way another time..Not possible !
Please don't apologize for me being unable to sometimes understand what's written, I just have a lot more to learn still lol.
Have a blessed day...

 

[pia]

what do you mean by this? "would have created mankind the same..." as what?

If God has both good and evil in Him, He would have created Adam and Eve the same, but He didn't..they had to allow that into themselves...God simply does NOT have any evil in Him, and NO, He most certainly did not create evil, as all evil really is, is all that which is without Him..Example : If I as a believing Christian hated a person, that would be evil...Why? Because hate is the state of being, without Gods Love..This can be applied to everything..Evil is not a created thing, merely what's there APART from God..Sorry I'm not the most articulate person, so I hope you can follow what I mean ?

 

[pia]

God is never evil, but He has allowed man to work on his own and although man often thinks that he can do things right, he cannot. Without God he can effectively do nothing good. When man does not work for God, who is the only one who is "good", then man instigates or creates evil. Man has created his own monsters, his own beasts.

I agree fully, that without Him we can do no real good. I just don't like it when I read things people have misconstrued as God being the instigator of evil or indeed allowing evil. He doesn't allow it, we do ! It wasn't Gods will that mankind should fall, He just knew we would, so again, it's not Him wanting us to work those things out ( as if we even could), mankind put himself right in it, and thus had to go on without having God as a friend, visiting each evening and no doubt teaching Adam as they went along.
This really is a huge subject, but I think a very important one, because if we cannot understand that God is ONLY good, not a mixture of good and evil, how can we even begin to get to know Him as Love...Also His love is not quite the same as what we humans call love, we really do need Him to reveal those things to us, as it's so foreign to us, we cannot possibly understand the scope of His Love nor how to operate in it...some things are no-brainers, but other things are almost opposite to how we think about those things.
Just also wanted to ask you how your dear wife is doing now? I sincerely hope she is all better...Bless you :)

 

[pia]

@face2face Hi there..well that was a very well thought out post with a lot of valid questions...I have had trouble with the book of Job, since first reading it, and I can't help wondering if the book was mans attempt to try to explain to others, how come righteous people do sometimes suffer immensely, when according the the law of Moses, people would be protected if they did the things therein, which seems to be what Job had been doing. It's an enigma for sure..Thanks :)

 

[Richard_oti]

Because I know of no other instance in scripture or history where a snake conversed with man.

While not a conversation, it was an alleged interaction:

Augustus Caesar's birth is attributed as being of divine origin in Suetonius' account in the "Twelve Caesars":

<quote>
"Having reached this point, it will not be out of place to add an account of the omens which occurred before he was born, on the very day of his birth, and afterwards, from which it was
possible to anticipate and perceive his future greatness and uninterrupted good fortune. ... According to Julius Marathus, a few months before Augustus was born a portent was generally
observed at Rome, which gave warning that nature was pregnant with a king for the Roman people; thereupon the senate in consternation decreed that no male child born that year should
be reared; but those whose wives were with child saw to it that the decree was not filed in the treasury ... I have read the following story in the books of Asclepias of Mendes entitled Theologumena. When Atia had come in the middle of the night to the solemn service
of Apollo, she had her litter set down in the temple and fell asleep, while the rest of the matrons also slept. On a sudden a serpent glided up to her and shortly went away. When she awoke, she
purified herself, as if after the embraces of her husband, and at once there appeared on her body a mark in colours like a serpent, and she could never get rid of it; so that presently she ceased ever to go to the public baths. In the tenth month after that Augustus was born and was therefore regarded as the son of Apollo. Atia too, before she gave him birth, dreamed that her vitals were borne up to the stars and spread over the whole extent of land and sea, while Octavius dreamed that the sun rose from Atia's womb.

The day he was born the conspiracy of Catiline was before the House, and Octavius came late because of his wife's confinement; then Publius Nigidius, as everyone knows, learning the reason for his tardiness and being informed also of the hour of the birth, declared that the ruler of the world had been born. ... Moreover, the very next night he dreamt that his son appeared to him in a guise more majestic than that of mortal man, with the thunderbolt, sceptre, and insignia of Jupiter Optimus Maximus, wearing a crown begirt with rays and mounted upon a laurel-wreathed chariot drawn by twelve horses of surpassing whiteness. When Augustus was still
an infant, as is recorded by the hand of Gaius Drusus, he was placed by his nurse at evening in his cradle on the ground floor and the next morning had disappeared; but after long search he was at last found on a lofty tower with his face towards the rising sun. ... the next night he dreamt that he saw this same boy in the lap of Jupiter of the Capitol, and that when he had ordered that he be removed, the god warned him to desist, declaring that the boy was being reared to be the saviour of his country."
</quote>

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I can't help wondering if the book was mans attempt to try to explain to others, how come righteous people do sometimes suffer immensely

Pia, one of the first books I was drawn to was Job. After reading it for some time I questioned whether it fit with the rest of the Word. I no longer doubt the book of Job as Spirit inspired. So many threads that run through other books, inspired by the Spirit, run perfectly through Job. The Spirit wrote Job, no doubt.

The path of the Lord:
Job 28:5-11 KJV
[5] As for the earth, out of it cometh bread: and under it is turned up as it were fire. [6] The stones of it are the place of sapphires: and it hath dust of gold. [7] There is a path which no fowl knoweth, and which the vulture's eye hath not seen: [8] The lion's whelps have not trodden it, nor the fierce lion passed by it. [9] He putteth forth his hand upon the rock; he overturneth the mountains by the roots. [10] He cutteth out rivers among the rocks; and his eye seeth every precious thing. [11] He bindeth the floods from overflowing; and the thing that is hid bringeth he forth to light.

Another of my favorites:

Rain on the wilderness
Job 38:25-27 KJV
[25] Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder; [26] To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man; [27] To satisfy the desolate and waste ground ; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?

 

[pia]

@VictoryinJesus
I certainly do agree that a lot of things written in the accounts about what happened to people, have been inspired by The Holy Spirit...But I also think that if all of it was indeed written by and through the Holy Spirit, there would be zero division between believers.
I can share the following, but whether you can accept it or not, I cannot say...When I finally got a reply from Jesus about the Bible ( as I had been brought up with zero religion or spirituality ), He answered me like this.:" The Bible has words from God to man as well as words from man to God AND words ABOUT God by man ( mans understandings)....Surely helped me :)

 

[Stranger]

That is certainly a different way of looking at it. Sadly if I was to pass on what Jesus answered me to this question, it would just be booed off the forum anyway ( by most), so I'll keep that to myself...Thanks though

You have an unhealthy view of the Bible.

Stranger

 

[amadeus]

Just also wanted to ask you how your dear wife is doing now? I sincerely hope she is all better...Bless you :)

Thank you for remembering and asking.

She is still uncomfortable but that is expected considering the surgery she had. This week she finally began her physical therapy. Hopefully as she progresses through this she will regain some of her lost strength and be able to do a few things again.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@VictoryinJesus
I certainly do agree that a lot of things written in the accounts about what happened to people, have been inspired by The Holy Spirit...But I also think that if all of it was indeed written by and through the Holy Spirit, there would be zero division between believers.
I can share the following, but whether you can accept it or not, I cannot say...When I finally got a reply from Jesus about the Bible ( as I had been brought up with zero religion or spirituality ), He answered me like this.:" The Bible has words from God to man as well as words from man to God AND words ABOUT God by man ( mans understandings)....Surely helped me :)

I hope you don't mind if I share something with you. My relationship with God did not begin three years ago with the Bible. I had to pray for the desire to read His word since I had no interest. I can tell you this: in the beginning I did all the talking. God knew me but I didn't know Him. Without His word, I never would have known God's will. Who knows God best? The Spirit. The Word is an invitation to know God. How can we truly know One whose ways are so much higher than our own; if we are not willing to invest time in what they have to say on a matter?

The most vital lesson of Job is this: I had heard of You, God. But now my eyes have seen You.

At the beginning of my journey with God. I prayed for prosperity(worldly riches) and success for my children and grandchildren. I wanted them to thrive in this life. To not lack anything (again worldly things). That is evil. Comfortable living gets a person no where but in NO need of God.

Pia, that is no longer the prayer. The good prayer for my family is: "Bring them low, God. Tear down any superficial foundations. Allow them to suffer loss, rejection, trials, and struggles. Do whatever it takes; just allow them to stay in this world long enough for them to see you, to truly know you." It doesn't matter if it all crumbles; if Christ is gained.

I want my family to go through the refiners fire. I use to fear death. That fear is gone. This life is not about being comfortable...it is about suffering until you come to the point of: I had heard of You, God. But now my eyes have seen You.

Revelation 3:18 KJV
[18] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve(the Spirit), that thou mayest see.


James 4:8-10 KJV
[8] Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts(obtain new birth, a new heart), ye double minded. [9] Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. [10] Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

The narrow gate is much suffering and many refuse to go through it. Job shows that through much loss: deeper knowledge of God is obtained. Job is not out of place; it fully discloses the bases for what the LORD Says repeatedly throughout scripture: lose your life so that you may gain something better.

Scripture is not a bad thing. Without it: I never would have known I served a God my mind had created. A false God. Once I took the time to get to know The mind of Christ; I realized He thinks the opposite of this world. How would I have ever heard without the word.?

Romans 10:17 KJV
[17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


About the division and man's influence within the given Word of God. There are no divisions, no contradictions; only our lack of full understanding. Yes, the writers contribute different perspectives but the heartbeat of the language doesn't change; it is still Spirit.

 

[bbyrd009]

Sorry, I'm not quite with you here. Please can you clarify what you mean? Did you mean I have to try to find scriptures on this subject ? I have been 'chastened' by Him, but it's nothing like what I first thought that word meant...He has such an open and helpful way of correcting me, that there hasn't been a single time, where I haven't been grateful to Him, for doing that for me..:)

well no doubt, but see that that is a reflection of your heart, and ppl have different reactions to being chastened, for one.
But the point was that it is God doing the chastening, i guess.

 

[bbyrd009]

The example you gave about fire and kids, is one the Lord Himself used to show me, how the Law had always been a way to try to protect His children, not to punish them.

ya, "an eye for an eye" is recognized to be limiting, not encouraging. The law is good, not evil.

I agree that God knew mankind would fall, but I certainly do not believe that God MADE them do it...I understand that there are things we will have a hard time understanding, as God sees the whole picture, and we only see a fraction, but we must not see our loving Father as some two faced monster, which I really believe a lot of Christians do

i can't help but compare this perspective to the perspective of an adolescent toward a parent that is not letting the kid get their way lol

 

[bbyrd009]

which I really believe a lot of Christians do, who do a thing one way one time, and the opposite way another time..Not possible !

not sure what you mean here, got an example?

 

[bbyrd009]

If God has both good and evil in Him, He would have created Adam and Eve the same, but He didn't

didn't He? In a manner of speaking, at least?

What is evil though, who gets to define that? Because we have to consider the instances of apparently God-ordained genocide in the OT here, imo.

God simply does NOT have any evil in Him

neither do most parents denying an adolescent, even if that is not the perception of the adolescent.

i am going to end up agreeing with you here ok, after we figure out that "evil" is really pretty hard to define.
Is making people eat their children evil?

and NO, He most certainly did not create evil, as all evil really is, is all that which is without Him.

not sure what to say here, "I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I, Yahweh, do all these things."

 

[bbyrd009]

If I as a believing Christian hated a person, that would be evil...Why? Because hate is the state of being, without Gods Love..This can be applied to everything.

yet we have many "believing Christians" right here on this board who openly profess their hate for whomever; blacks, Muslims, etc., and feel justified in doing so. They hate me, too, i guess, or at least that is what i get from their replies. 10You who love the LORD, hate evil! which it even says "evil" in the original.

I'm strictly playing DA herenow, because i believe like you do. Tbh imo "hate" is a poor choice of words there in a sense, mostly because the word is so laden with symbology, and what is likely meant in Scripture at these points is a comparative, iow "hate your life" is not advising us to literally hate ourselves, same with "hate your family."