Who was Job's accuser?

[bbyrd009]

@Stranger ...yes I too can read....but believing that God is both good and evil is against ALL that I have been shown by Jesus, and doesn't make a lick of sense, as then God would have created mankind the same, which He didn't.
ALL that God created was GOOD !

might be more apt to say that "all God separated Himself from was evil." Being as how God already admitted to creating evil and all. I think it is better to see that gods just cannot be made any other way. And who "satan" is becomes more obvious as one tries to identify and label "evil" imo.

"as then God would have created mankind the same, which He didn't."

what do you mean by this? "would have created mankind the same..." as what?

 

[bbyrd009]

Not impressed.

imagine how we feel lol. The whole rest of the post was great though imo

 

[bbyrd009]

Pay attention.

Stranger

see, now a guy like Stranger would have a perfectly reasonable approach to keeping baby from the fire; just cut his arms off, problem solved!

 

[bbyrd009]

You see? That which occurred upon Job, was good. A very important truth for believers to lay hold of.

yikes, Stranger. This is why you will finish life alone in a room in your underwear, muttering, if you are not careful

 

[DPMartin]

Yes but Job not once mentions a supernatural monster who is his accuser and adversary. Job only refers to a person who he can approach to defend his integrity.

that would be the people of whom he had many chapters of conversation with. Satan isn't Job's accuser, his friends that he spoke to through most of the book were his accusers. what befell Job could befall anyone, maybe not in the short amount of time as it did him but none the less, Job wasn't any different then anyone else, except that God was with him.

which was Job's hedge if you will, but Job is the only one who understood this. everyone goes on about Satan the accuser. Satan accuses God therefore judging God, hence why he's in darkness forever. but you'd have to be a fool to think Satan's opinion on anything carries any weight with the Almighty. his existence serves God's purposes as God sees fit.

the Lord God looks for the faithful in men, that's something Satan ain't going to come to God about, he seeks ways to destroy it, or deceive it, so now you read the book of Job to see the reality of things with God.


and yes I am aware of rev 12:10 but in this case Satan doesn't accuse Job he accuses the Lord of keeping him protected, and that's why Job's faith is sound, implying that what the Lord said isn't true. hence trying to accuse God of what?

 

[face2face]

Pay attention.

Stranger

So nothing more to add...other than some random verses with no interpretation.

 

[face2face]

No admission...it was a correction on your statement. You stated that Job wasn't aware of a supernatural evil being but understood his adversary to be human. Job understood nothing of the sort. He assumes the existence of God. And recognizes God as his adversary in the trials that have come upon him. A not so surprisingly dishonest statement on your part.

Concerning the events between satan and God that led to Jobs trials, we are never told that he knew anything about them. We know about them because they are written in the book of Job.

I never said Job did not believe in the existence of satan the devil. I have every reason to believe he did as he knew of the fall of Adam. (Job 31:33) Thus he would have known of the serpent, the devil who tempted Eve. Plus he alluded to the serpent, the devil, as is depicted in the zodiac of God in the heavens. (Job 26:13)

I'm sure you can 'work' with it. I've seen your 'work'. Not impressed.

Stranger

Your work has no evidence, at all - all you have is "every reason to believe"

Lets leave it there shall we!

 

[amadeus]

@Stranger ...yes I too can read....but believing that God is both good and evil is against ALL that I have been shown by Jesus, and doesn't make a lick of sense, as then God would have created mankind the same, which He didn't.
ALL that God created was GOOD !

God is never evil, but He has allowed man to work on his own and although man often thinks that he can do things right, he cannot. Without God he can effectively do nothing good. When man does not work for God, who is the only one who is "good", then man instigates or creates evil. Man has created his own monsters, his own beasts.

 

[amadeus]

seems to me that he actually laments the lack of such an human accuser if anything

He calls his "so-called" friends "miserable comforters".

 

[amadeus]

might be more apt to say that "all God separated Himself from was evil." Being as how God already admitted to creating evil and all. I think it is better to see that gods just cannot be made any other way. And who "satan" is becomes more obvious as one tries to identify and label "evil" imo.

Yes, God effectively created evil... or perhaps better said, the possibility of evil. The possibility became reality to men when they chose anything but God, when they chose any way but God's Way. To me the whole thing is easier to see and understand when we do not insist on introducing into the mix "satan" existing outside of man. Man was and always has been his own worst satan, his own worst adversary.

"as then God would have created mankind the same, which He didn't."

what do you mean by this? "would have created mankind the same..." as what?

Men were made the same in that each man had the same opportunity to go his own way or to go God's Way. What people do not understand about the ones who have had access to a Bible is that God is looking not at the brain and its knowledge, but the heart [not the blood pumping station located in the chest] and its content and intent and direction considering what God gave that man.

God did not give every person the same things. Some have more or less brains, some more or less muscle, some more or less skill, some more or less money, some more or less education, some more or less time, some more or fewer followers, some more friends and/or enemies, some better or worse health, some more or less opportunity, etc. Then considering what each has been given or not and what each has done with it and also what each has wanted to do with it and tried to do with it what is the result?
It comes back to the verse again:

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

 

[face2face]

Yes, you are correct that all that God created was and is good. And you are correct in your understanding of Jesus Christ.

I am not saying God is evil. He is not.

With Job, evil was behind Jobs troubles in that satan was the instrument used. But, behind satan, God initiated theses troubles for His own purpose and for Jobs good. Satan did not come against Job for good, he did it for evil. But God did it for good. (Gen. 50:20) "But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive."

You see? That which occurred upon Job, was good. A very important truth for believers to lay hold of.

Stranger

@pia

There is an amazing extreme…introduced at the beginning of Job, what seems like a paradox in two challenges which are aimed at God.

We have the adversary, who challenger’s God. He assumes Job’s motives for worshipping God are due to God's abundant blessings which appear to make serving God that much easier.

Whether the challenger is envious at Job, or wanting to learn more about God Himself, the challenger clearly wants to know how God works!

We read of this interaction at Job 1:8

And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth (extreme), a blameless and upright man, (extreme) who fears God and turns away from evil?” (extreme)

A perfect assessment of Job’s character.

Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason?

The idea here is that the adversary does not disagree that Job is pious, but that Job is loyal to God because of what he receives from Him.

He wants to test Job’s sincerity.

The adversary challenges God to prove His Sovereignty is being properly administered, and if Job’s motives are truly pure - test his motives God!

So he states:

Haven’t YOU GOD put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side?
Haven’t YOU God blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land.

The adversary is saying to God, that maybe this is not good practice what you are doing with Job.

Now what happens when disaster strikes Job, we see a different challenge coming at God.

And Job’s is more like “Is it right to allow righteous people to suffer?” Job could easily say, I am for you not against you God.

Again, God is placed in this situation where He is confronted with two challenging ideas.

One challenger is saying its not good for you to prosper righteous people.

Another challenger is saying it’s not good for righteous people to suffer especially if they don’t know why!

1. Why would God put Himself in this position after all, it was God who introduced Job to the adversary.
2. Why would the adversary require a lesson in righteousness if he was completely evil?
3. Why does the adversary never show up again in the story of Job?
4. Why in every instance in the book is it God sending the trails upon Job?
5. Why does an evil being need God's permission?
6. What benefit does the evil Being bring to God's plan with Job? Seeing it was God who tested his servant and had full control of the situation?
7. Can you explain how the evil being is obedient to every Word God says?
8. Why is the evil being totally powerless?
9. What benefit to this Evil being is it if Job's sincerity is proven just?
10. What benefit is it to this evil being if Job is proven a sinner?

Strangers comments are nowhere close to understanding the purpose of God with Job.

F2F

 

[Stranger]

So nothing more to add...other than some random verses with no interpretation.

Pay attention.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Your work has no evidence, at all - all you have is "every reason to believe"

Lets leave it there shall we!

My every reason is based upon the Scripture, as I gave you.

If you're scared, we can leave it there.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

@pia

Strangers comments are nowhere close to understanding the purpose of God with Job.

F2F

Says you who would rather talk about Strangers comments than talking to Stranger. That is always easy.

Stranger

 

[face2face]

Post #31 will be with you for a while.
Ha nothing is easy about dealing with Strangers comments, whether directly or indirectly.
Lets see how you go with the questions if you are able.
I am sure the members here would like to see you prove your supernatural EVIL being from Job 1.
So far not a lot of Evil there Stranger!
F2F

 

[jimd]

Some of you guys are doing a great job of hinting around at who satan is, so I will add my two cents. I believe satan is a metaphor for mans fleshly nature. Like someone here said, "the only one I know of who has ever accused or deceived me is myself or some other human.
PS: I don't think there is anything evil or sinful about our fleshly nature until it yields to a temptation that is evil. There is temptation that is evil/sinful and there is temptation that is not.

 

[Stranger]

Post #31 will be with you for a while.
Ha nothing is easy about dealing with Strangers comments, whether directly or indirectly.
Lets see how you go with the questions if you are able.
I am sure the members here would like to see you prove your supernatural EVIL being from Job 1.
So far not a lot of Evil there Stranger!
F2F

I proved it in your other threads bearing this same message. Angels are supernatural beings. 'Sons of God' is used in the Old Testament concerning direct creations of God, such as angels. (Job 1:6) Thus satan when he came with the 'Sons of God' or angels to answer before God, shows that he is an angel. Following God's removal of protection from Job, you then see the evil of satan in that which he did.

Satan is but one of his names. (Rev. 12:9) "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Note the 'he' in (Rev. 12:9) . Note 'he' had angels under his authority.

So, you see? It is not hard to see that satan is a real supernatural being who is evil.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Some of you guys are doing a great job of hinting around at who satan is, so I will add my two cents. I believe satan is a metaphor for mans fleshly nature. Like someone here said, "the only one I know of who has ever accused or deceived me is myself or some other human.
PS: I don't think there is anything evil or sinful about our fleshly nature until it yields to a temptation that is evil. There is temptation that is evil/sinful and there is temptation that is not.

Why do you believe satan is a metaphor?

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Note the 'he' in (Rev. 12:9) . Note 'he' had angels under his authority.

So, you see? It is not hard to see that satan is a real supernatural being who is evil.

6Don't abandon wisdom, and she will watch over you; love her, and she will guard you.

 

[jimd]

Why do you believe satan is a metaphor?

Stranger

Because I know of no other instance in scripture or history where a snake conversed with man.