Who/What is Jesus if not God?

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friend of

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By chance, was that an attempt to show me where the scripture says ' Jesus is God?. If you cannot understand a simple request how can you understand the scriptures?

Dude, Thomas literally called Jesus God, and Jesus did not correct him. That proves Jesus is God, because if He was not God He would have corrected Thomas. Just use logic.
 
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Brakelite

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Therefore the son is not the father.
Of course not. A ridiculous idea. Where do you get them from?
God is a spirit...Jesus is a man/flesh
Absolutely true. But Jesus wasn't flesh when He created you was He.
Then you believe God made himself... The scripture does not teach that
Neither do I.
God his father made him flesh. Therefore he is not God.
Try again using truth as the basis for your conclusion, rather than what you are telling me what I believe according to your misreading of my posts. I'm putting that kindly.
Therefore the Father is the one God and the son is not God.
If the Son is not God all we have is a human sacrifice and we are all lost.
There is no divine nature transfer at all from God Almighty to his human son
But there was certainly between Good Almighty an did His only begotten Son, the Creator of all things.
KJV Hebrews 1:1-2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds.

KJV Matthew 21:33-39
33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

KJV Matthew 22:2-14
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

KJV Matthew 23:37-38
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Christ's heart had said "How can I give thee up?" He had dealt with Israel for centuries as a loving, forgiving father would deal with an ungrateful, wayward child. With the eye of Omniscience He saw that the city of Jerusalem had decided her own destiny. For centuries there had been a turning away from God. Grace had been resisted, privileges abused, opportunities slighted. The people themselves had been loading the cloud of vengeance which unmingled with mercy was about to burst upon them. With choked, half-broken utterance, Christ exclaimed, "O that thou hadst known, even thou in this thy day, the things that belong unto thy peace; but now they are hid from thine eyes." The irrevocable sentence was pronounced.
 

Taken

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Who/What is Jesus if not God?
If Jesus is not God, as so many love to claim today, please explain who Jesus is then; what He is that His life and sacrifice could accomplish so much if not the work of divine efforts.

Many will make all manner of case to prove that He is not God, but I have seen nobody explain just where He stands in such a scenario as having changed everything in the entire world ... by His sheer blood, sweat and tears.

Nobody but God could do what He did.

What is Jesus?
* The Word of God.
* The Name God chose for His Word.

What is every poster on this form?
The word of that poster.
The name that poster chose for his word.

Who is Jesus?
* The Body of flesh, God Prepared, for men to HEAR and SEE.

Who is Jesus?
* The Soul of God, without beginning.
Who is Jesus?
* The Spirit of God, without beginning.
Who is Jesus?
* The Christ of God, without beginning.
Who is the Christ of God?
* The Word, Power, Maker, Wisdom, Truth, Spirit, Light, Glory, Seed, Life, Way, Priest, King, Lord, Good, Servant of God, God Serving Himself.
Who is Christ the Lord Jesus?
* The DIVIDER ~ Light from Darkness, Good from Evil, Right from Wrong, Truth from Lies, Whole from Broken, In from Out, Up from Down, Comfort from Agony, Peace from Distress.


Who is every poster on this forum?
A Body of flesh, of earthen dust, of a man’s seed, of a man’s life, of a man’s truth, of a man’s word, of a man’s wisdom, of a man’s power, of a man’s glory, of a man’s way, of a man serving himself.
*** With Gods “soul” in him.
*** And A PROMISE from God, “IF” a man DESIRES...
*** To KILL that body of Flesh and give that man a NEW body.
*** To KEEP Gods “soul” forever ALIVE with and IN that man.
*** To Re-BIRTH that mans “spirit”, with Gods “SEED”, forever ALIVE with and IN that man.
*** To BE WITH that man Forever.
*** For that man to BE WITH God Forever.

Who / What is Jesus?
Gods Appointed SAVIOR to man-KIND, to “MAKE” (any willing, desiring Corrupt man)...“WHOLEY, Whole and holy”....
Expressly According to: the Lord God Almighty’s WAY.

Glory, Glory, Glory, to our Great Lord God Almighty,
Taken
 

Taken

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@Saint of God

I don’t believe the claim of Jesus is fully 100% God when he left the heavenly realm, he was maybe 50% God and 100% human.

Jesus being born in fleshly body became lower than the angels is something to consider.

God is NOT, a mathematical equation of men’s devices.

Jesus was NEVER a HUMAN, earthly man of dust.
In turn, Human, earthly men of dust, shall NEVER Be God.

LIKENESS, is the Key operative word.
Jesus was Revealed, in the LIKENESS of a Jewish human man, to teach Jewish human men, HOW TO BE in Gods LIKENESS.

Gods Soul, was NEVER compromised.
Gods Spirit, was NEVER compromised.
The BODY Jesus took upon Himself, was a BODY expressly PREPARED, for Him, by God Himself; FOR earthly men;
TO Hear, AND See, AND be SEEN KILLED, AND be SEEN ALIVE AGAIN... as an EXAMPLE for what human men could EXPECT for Themselves, By, Through, Of “that mans true heart-full, will-full submission TO the Lord God Almighty”.

Remember men in the OT, struggling with HEARING ‘only’?
The Fore-TELLING of what Would come to pass?
The impatience of men, waiting to see IF the fore-telling would come to pass?
The complaining, The soliciting....”IF men could JUST SEE GOD...THEN they could BELIEVE”?

God Promised, God Gave for men TO SEE...and? They still could NOT BELIEVE.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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GEN2REV

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Who/What is Jesus if not God?


What is Jesus?
* The Word of God.
* The Name God chose for His Word.

What is every poster on this form?
The word of that poster.
The name that poster chose for his word.

Who is Jesus?
* The Body of flesh, God Prepared, for men to HEAR and SEE.

Who is Jesus?
* The Soul of God, without beginning.
Who is Jesus?
* The Spirit of God, without beginning.
Who is Jesus?
* The Christ of God, without beginning.
Who is the Christ of God?
* The Word, Power, Maker, Wisdom, Truth, Spirit, Light, Glory, Seed, Life, Way, Priest, King, Lord, Good, Servant of God, God Serving Himself.
Who is Christ the Lord Jesus?
* The DIVIDER ~ Light from Darkness, Good from Evil, Right from Wrong, Truth from Lies, Whole from Broken, In from Out, Up from Down, Comfort from Agony, Peace from Distress.


Who is every poster on this forum?
A Body of flesh, of earthen dust, of a man’s seed, of a man’s life, of a man’s truth, of a man’s word, of a man’s wisdom, of a man’s power, of a man’s glory, of a man’s way, of a man serving himself.
*** With Gods “soul” in him.
*** And A PROMISE from God, “IF” a man DESIRES...
*** To KILL that body of Flesh and give that man a NEW body.
*** To KEEP Gods “soul” forever ALIVE with and IN that man.
*** To Re-BIRTH that mans “spirit”, with Gods “SEED”, forever ALIVE with and IN that man.
*** To BE WITH that man Forever.
*** For that man to BE WITH God Forever.

Who / What is Jesus?
Gods Appointed SAVIOR to man-KIND, to “MAKE” (any willing, desiring Corrupt man)...“WHOLEY, Whole and holy”....
Expressly According to: the Lord God Almighty’s WAY.

Glory, Glory, Glory, to our Great Lord God Almighty,
Taken
It sounds to me like you just described Jesus as God.

Did you not?
 

Jim B

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Ravenous Wolves:
"Every day they twist my words ... They work together, they hide themselves (behind multiple screen names), they seek my destruction, ... Shall they escape their sin? In anger cast them down, O God of my Salvation!"

Nice prayer -- not! Why not try Christianity for a change?
 

GEN2REV

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Nice prayer -- not! Why not try Christianity for a change?
Wasn't it you that just accused somebody else of Ad Hominem attacks in another thread, literally minutes ago?

Why, yes! Yes it was!

You must be feeling awfully insecure today to look so hard for something negative to say to me that you attack a part of my signature that's been there for many months.

Is that your example of how to be a good Christian?

Weak and pathetic.
 

Berserk

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Jesus didn't ever deny that He is good. What He was doing is turning the question back to this man who was a Jew. Most Jews did not believe Jesus was God. Jesus' question was to simply ask, "Why are you calling me good (seeing you do not believe I am God). Only God is good." Jesus never commanded that young man not anyone else not to call Him good. He simply asked a question, which He often did to get people to think.

As already noted, that interpretation can be summarily dispatched by the observation that Jesus' identity and status is nowhere discussed in this pericope.
Also, you fail to consider that the only reason why Jesus' baptism "fulfills all righteousness" (Matt. 3:14-15) its signification that Jesus has truly repented (the purpose of John's baptism!). You forget that Jesus had to "grow in...favor with God (Luke 2:52)" and had to "learn obedience through the things he suffered (Heb. 5:8). Thus Mary rightly rebukes Jesus' lack of considerateness in deserting the family entourage travelling back to Galilee. telling his parents neither that He was leaving or where he was going. This mistake forces his parents to launch an agonizing 3-day search to locate him (2:41-48).
 
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GEN2REV

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So since there hasn't been a single honest attempt at an answer to the OP, in 11 pages of replies, I think we can label this myth BUSTED and conclude that Jesus is quite clearly, and Biblically, God.

Thanks for participating.
 

Scott Downey

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As already noted, that interpretation can be summarily dispatched by the observation that Jesus' identity and status is nowhere discussed in this pericope.
Also, you fail to consider that the only reason why Jesus' baptism "fulfills all righteousness" (Matt. 3:14-15) its signification that Jesus has truly repented (the purpose of John's baptism!). You forget that Jesus had to "grow in...favor with God (Luke 2:52)" and had to "learn obedience through the things he suffered (Heb. 5:8). Thus Mary rightly rebukes Jesus' lack of considerateness in deserting the family entourage travelling back to Galilee. telling his parents neither that He was leaving or where he was going. This mistake forces his parents to launch an agonizing 3-day search to locate him (2:41-48).
Jesus had no need to repent, as he was without sin in his life on the earth.
Jesus never yielded to the temptations of the flesh or Satan.

Hebrews 4:14-16
New King James Version

Our Compassionate High Priest
14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
 

Berserk

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Scott Downey; "Jesus had no need to repent, as he was without sin in his life on the earth.
Jesus never yielded to the temptations of the flesh or Satan."
So you believe Jesus was exempt from the courtesy of notifying his parents as to where he was going? You think they should have just accepted their need for an agonizing 3-day search for this 12-year-old without complaint? You think that Luke's inference that Jesus "grew in favor...with God" need not imply that Jesus was ever "less in favor with God? Think about the meaning of these words!

Scott Downey: "Our Compassionate High Priest
14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.'

You overlook the significance of the phrase "just as we are." Jesus had to learn by trial and error just as we do. Thus, as a boy he made mistakes just as any boy does. Otherwise, he can't be fully human and had an unfair advantage over us that prevents him from serving as our role model! You are unwittingly committing the heresy of Docetism. Jesus felt the need for a baptism of repentance because he felt the need to repent. But "repent" means "change of mind." Matthew's expression "fulfill all righteousness" can't be reduced to setting a good example. Jesus was sinless in the sense that none of his youthful mistakes created a condition of separation from the Father and sin is that which separates from God.
 

Scott Downey

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Scott Downey; "Jesus had no need to repent, as he was without sin in his life on the earth.
Jesus never yielded to the temptations of the flesh or Satan."
So you believe Jesus was exempt from the courtesy of notifying his parents as to where he was going? You think they should have just accepted their need for an agonizing 3-day search for this 12-year-old without complaint? You think that Luke's inference that Jesus "grew in favor...with God" need not imply that Jesus was ever "less in favor with God? Think about the meaning of these words!

Scott Downey: "Our Compassionate High Priest
14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.'

You overlook the significance of the phrase "just as we are." Jesus had to learn by trial and error just as we do. Thus, as a boy he made mistakes just as any boy does. Otherwise, he can't be fully human and had an unfair advantage over us that prevents him from serving as our role model! You are unwittingly committing the heresy of Docetism. Jesus felt the need for a baptism of repentance because he felt the need to repent. But "repent" means "change of mind." Matthew's expression "fulfill all righteousness" can't be reduced to setting a good example. Jesus was sinless in the sense that none of his youthful mistakes created a condition of separation from the Father and sin is that which separates from God.
Jesus never sinned.
Regarding his parents, what he did was not sinful, nor disobedient to his earthly parents. Jesus was never out of favor with God, Some of these phrases are for our benefit to understand how a man can grow in favor with God as examples to us of learning to spend time with God, that is has benefits. You accuse me of being a heretic, I ask you then, was Jesus God, or 'a God'?

God has no need of repentance.

Numbers 23:19
“God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
 

Scott Downey

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Matthew 22
41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?”

They said to Him, “The Son of David.”

43 He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying:

44 ‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool” ’?

45 If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his Son?” 46 And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare question Him anymore.
 

Saint of God

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Of course not. A ridiculous idea. Where do you get them from?
From those who claim that Jesus is God. If we have one God and that is god the father, how can Jesus be God without being the father?
Absolutely true. But Jesus wasn't flesh when He created you was He.
Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Neither do I.
Maybe you don't teach it but it appears that you believe it.
Try again using truth as the basis for your conclusion, rather than what you are telling me what I believe according to your misreading of my posts. I'm putting that kindly.
the scripture supports my position that God made his son flesh...
Galatians 4:4
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

If the Son is not God all we have is a human sacrifice and we are all lost.
This passage says Gods' son was a human
Galatians 4:4
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
But there was certainly between Good Almighty an did His only begotten Son, the Creator of all things.
KJV Hebrews 1:1-2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds.
While you are trying to make an argument for transfer of divine powers you are showing tha the son is not God since we have only one God.


KJV Matthew 21:33-39
33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

KJV Matthew 22:2-14
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

KJV Matthew 23:37-38
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
All your arguments here shows that the son is not God...Yet you make the claim that the son is God.
Christ's heart had said "How can I give thee up?" He had dealt with Israel for centuries as a loving, forgiving father would deal with an ungrateful, wayward child. With the eye of Omniscience He saw that the city of Jerusalem had decided her own destiny. For centuries there had been a turning away from God. Grace had been resisted, privileges abused, opportunities slighted. The people themselves had been loading the cloud of vengeance which unmingled with mercy was about to burst upon them. With choked, half-broken utterance, Christ exclaimed, "O that thou hadst known, even thou in this thy day, the things that belong unto thy peace; but now they are hid from thine eyes." The irrevocable sentence was pronounced.
Are you implying that Christ is the father of Israel in your comment here? Or are you saying that Christ was only acting as his father? You have to make up your mind because you said that the son is not the father.
 

Saint of God

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Dude, Thomas literally called Jesus God, and Jesus did not correct him. That proves Jesus is God, because if He was not God He would have corrected Thomas. Just use logic.
No, he did not...Why did Jesus not correct Peter when Peter said he is the son of God? Jesus cannot be both God and the son of God, can he? If that is the case then he would be his own father. According to your understanding, there is a conflict in the scripture.
 

Brakelite

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From those who claim that Jesus is God. If we have one God and that is god the father, how can Jesus be God without being the father?

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


Maybe you don't teach it but it appears that you believe it.

the scripture supports my position that God made his son flesh...
Galatians 4:4
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,


This passage says Gods' son was a human
Galatians 4:4
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
While you are trying to make an argument for transfer of divine powers you are showing tha the son is not God since we have only one God.



All your arguments here shows that the son is not God...Yet you make the claim that the son is God.

Are you implying that Christ is the father of Israel in your comment here? Or are you saying that Christ was only acting as his father? You have to make up your mind because you said that the son is not the father.
When you want to get serious about this discussion instead of just vain attempts at being clever, get back to me.
 

Dropship

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When the High Priest asked Jesus if he was the Son of God, he replied "Yes".
But if he WAS God, he'd have replied "No"..:)

 

Saint of God

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When you want to get serious about this discussion instead of just vain attempts at being clever, get back to me.
This is as serious as it gets...Jesus has a God. The passage you posted says Jesus is the son of man. it does not say he is God. So when you are serious about this discussion and start answering questions put to you then I would know that you are honest.