Who/What is Jesus if not God?

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Dropship

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Jesus made it clear he wasn't God-

A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered, “No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)

Jesus said - "Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)

Jesus said - "I say nothing of my own accord, i only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)

Jesus said - “Father, the hour has come....I am coming to you now" (John 17:13)

Jesus said - "I am going to my Father and your Father, my God and your God" (John 20:17)

Jesus said- "Say you're mine in front of people, and I'll say I'm yours in front of my Father" (Matt 10:32)

John the Baptist said- "The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands" (John 3:34-35)
"Jesus...has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God" (Hebrews 12:2)
God himself said - "This is my beloved son, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)
And of course Jesus regularly prayed to God, yet if he was God why would he pray to himself?
The people knew Jesus was a go-between- "There is one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ" (1 Tim 2:5)
 
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GEN2REV

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Jesus made it clear he wasn't God-

A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered, “No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)

Jesus said - "Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)

Jesus said - "I say nothing of my own accord, i only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)

Jesus said - “Father, the hour has come....I am coming to you now" (John 17:13)

Jesus said - "I am going to my Father and your Father, my God and your God" (John 20:17)

Jesus said- "Say you're mine in front of people, and I'll say I'm yours in front of my Father" (Matt 10:32)

John the Baptist said- "The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands" (John 3:34-35)
"Jesus...has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God" (Hebrews 12:2)
God himself said - "This is my beloved son, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)
And of course Jesus regularly prayed to God, yet if he was God why would he pray to himself?
The people knew Jesus was a go-between- "There is one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ" (1 Tim 2:5)
Welcome.

Another faith-filled New Member brimming with faith that Jesus Christ has no divinity.

Shocker.

God Himself calls Jesus God in Hebrews 1:8, but I'm betting a million you won't add that verse to your consideration. You're collecting verses that appear to show otherwise.

Read all of Hebrews 1 if you're honest. Don't bother if you're not.

Invite all your friends. There's always room on the bandwagon for more faithless members here.
 

GEN2REV

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Jesus made it clear he wasn't God-

A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered, “No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)

Jesus said - "Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)

Jesus said - "I say nothing of my own accord, i only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)

Jesus said - “Father, the hour has come....I am coming to you now" (John 17:13)

Jesus said - "I am going to my Father and your Father, my God and your God" (John 20:17)

Jesus said- "Say you're mine in front of people, and I'll say I'm yours in front of my Father" (Matt 10:32)

John the Baptist said- "The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands" (John 3:34-35)
"Jesus...has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God" (Hebrews 12:2)
God himself said - "This is my beloved son, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)
And of course Jesus regularly prayed to God, yet if he was God why would he pray to himself?
The people knew Jesus was a go-between- "There is one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ" (1 Tim 2:5)
Here's a couple more you won't add to your list.

Romans 8:9
John 14:21-23
 

Dropship

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Notice in this passage that when Peter said "You're the Son of God", Jesus didn't say "Wrong, I AM God"..:)

"When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven" (Matt 16:13-17)
 
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Wrangler

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He doesn't say the Father's servants. He doesn't say God's servants.

He says MY servants.

The angels belong to God (Jesus).

Same post in the other thread. Deja by all over again.
You are equating angels of God with servants of men to rationalize the man-is-god thesis?! Wow.

I have servants. Does that make me God?
 

GEN2REV

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You are equating angels of God with servants of men to rationalize the man-is-god thesis?! Wow.

I have servants. Does that make me God?
:D

Who do YOU imagine Jesus' servants were?

Jesus WAS a servant, and made a big to-do about being a servant upon the earth.

Do you really want to make the case that Jesus had secret manservants that were never spoken of in Scripture, that He kept hidden away somewhere?

Sure that's what you wanna go with?

ETA: You missed the verse that referred to angels as ministers. Ministers are servants. Hebrews 1:14 shows angels as ministers (servants) sent from God to serve Him upon the earth.
 
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GEN2REV

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Same post in the other thread. Deja by all over. again.
Uh no. You posted both of those posts in this same thread.

Posts #162 & 166

It's hard to keep track of all your different User Names and where they've posted, isn't it?

I know.
 
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GEN2REV

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Notice in this passage that when Peter said "You're the Son of God", Jesus didn't say "Wrong, I AM God"..:)

"When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven" (Matt 16:13-17)
You're cherry-picking to back your claim.

I already showed you contrary verses, and there are many more.

You are not collecting those kinds of verses. You need to believe, and strive to convince others, that Jesus is not God.

It's a psychological issue. I can't help you with that.

It's also a spiritual issue. And I can't help you with that.

God will either remove the scales from your eyes, ... or He never will.

confused-bearded-man-in-eyeglasses-shrugging-his-shoulders-picture-id625908018
 

GRACE ambassador

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Notice in this passage that when Peter said "You're the Son of God", Jesus didn't say "Wrong, I AM God"..:)

"When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven" (Matt 16:13-17)
Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome to the Board.

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

Bible Answer To Confusing church Bewilderment!

GRACE And Peace
...
+
When you have time...:

"Complete" study The LORD JESUS CHRIST Is Almighty God!
 
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Saint of God

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That's all well and good. Except one has to ignore the numerous scriptures that place the Son, Jesus, as the Creator.
Why must one ignore Jesus as the creator? The scripture is clear it is by Jesus, God his father made the worlds
Heb 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Now I'm not one to demand I'm right, and I would not categorically proclaim another wrong just because I disagree with him. We need to be careful in discussing the nature of God. If we are going to do it at all, we need to include all of scripture.
That is where we differ... I demand the scripture is right, I proclaim another is wrong when the scripture does not support his position.

Yes, Jesus was in one sense begotten of the Father at Bethlehem. But Jesus was also sent from the Father, 'a body hast thou prepared for me'.
'For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son...
KJV John 3:17
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
You are posting scripture that opposes your personal position... Did I not post the passage where Jesus agrees that he came out from God?
John 16:27
For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
That could only mean one thing... Prior to being born, Jesus existed in God.
And I do disagree with you concerning His baptism. Yes, the holy Spirit came upon Him in a special way... But did Jesus not debate and confound the Jewish elders when He was only 12? Did He do that without the holy Spirit?
Did you include these scriptures to determine why Jesus had that wisdom per baptism?
Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 2:40
And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
But extensive power post baptism...
1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,
2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.
3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:
10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee:
11 And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.
14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
 

Saint of God

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You're cherry-picking to back your claim.

I already showed you contrary verses, and there are many more.

You are not collecting those kinds of verses. You need to believe, and strive to convince others, that Jesus is not God.

It's a psychological issue. I can't help you with that.

It's also a spiritual issue. And I can't help you with that.

God will either remove the scales from your eyes, ... or He never will.

confused-bearded-man-in-eyeglasses-shrugging-his-shoulders-picture-id625908018
Seems like he destroyed your nonsense with plain and simple scripture that proves Jesus is not God... You are unable to defend your belief against those passages... The apostles did not believe or teach Jesus is God...As a matter of fact Jesus himself confessed that they believe he came out from God.
John 16:27
For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
 

Saint of God

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It appears, in Scripture, that Jesus sometimes spoke as God and other times as the human man that He was while in the flesh/corruptible body.No, that's not what I was saying. Read it again please since it's there on the page. No need for me to re-type it all. :)
Where did Jesus speak as God? Don't be shy post it again just copy and paste no need to retype.
The scripture says God spoke by his son. Not Jesus spoke as God.
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Another interesting note:
Scripture makes clear that the angels belong to God. He created them and they are His servants. Psalm 103 is all about God Almighty, Yahweh.

"Bless the Lord, ye His angels, that excel in strength, that do His Commandments, hearkening unto the voice of His Word.
Bless ye the Lord, all ye His hosts (angel armies); ye ministers of His, that do His pleasure."
Psalms 103:20-21

Then we have Jesus saying this,"...if My kingdom were of this world (He said He was from above John 8:23), then would My servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: ..."
John 18:36

He doesn't say the Father's servants. He doesn't say God's servants.

He says MY servants.

The angels belong to God (Jesus).
Children have angels also, based on your conclusion children must also be God.
Matthew 18:10
Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

Even the devil has angels. So why can Jesus not have angels and not be God? Your case is baseless.
 

Saint of God

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I'm no expert on the trinity. But my understanding so far is that the three are distinct while also being one.
The question is the three distinct what? And being one what?
There is only a conflict if you have an issue with the Holy Spirit being considered an equal member of a triune Godhead. If you do, can you explain?
There is conflict when you have one God the father. You have conflict when Jesus says the father is his God. You have conflict when Jesus said he is the son of God. (Sons are the offspring of their fathers) That means there was no trinity before God had a son.


I find explaining or having a firm grasp on the specific nature of God difficult at this time.
Im sure as I search the Scriptures on this issue, I can get a better grasp. There are plenty of things Ive had to unlearn.
Here is an unfailing nature of God...
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
 
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Wrangler

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Who do YOU imagine Jesus' servants were?

Trinitarianism is less about what Scripture says and more about imaginative extrapolation.

Do you know some translations render the servants as men? But you did not answer my question. I have servants; does that make me God?
 

Dropship

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As a Christian, I believe that Jesus was the Son of God..:)
"Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God" (1 John 5:5)

And Jesus hinself said he was the Son-

"Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”
“I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” (Mark 14:61-64)


So if Jesus was God as some claim, who was the "Mighty One"? ..:)
 

GEN2REV

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you did not answer my question. I have servants; does that make me God?
I don't answer STUPID questions.

But just to humor you:

Why, yes! Yes it does make you a god. In your own eyes, that is.

You idolize your self over the Truth.
1 John 5:21
1 Corinthians 10:14
 

Berserk

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For the sake of discussion, this thread needs to consider Mark 10:17. Some scholars argue that Jesus clearly distinguishes Himself from God to the rich young ruler and even denies that He is 'good:' ''Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone (Mark 10:17)." Indeed, this admission explains to the embarrassing problem that Jesus feels the need to receive John's baptism of repentance, a problem not solved by John's protest in Matthew 3:14-15. Some try to explain this problem away by claiming that Jesus is fishing for the rich young ruler to acclaim Him as God. But that explanation fails because the context never focuses on Jesus' identity.