At the end of the day, it will be their efforts to self justify and self affirm.
Much love!
Why are Bible scholars leaving Christianity?
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Much love!
You do realize, right, that you can believe in God and not be born again? Not have eternal life? Remain condemned? Do we at least agree on that?
Much love!
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Not true.
These were professing Christians. Scholars, professors, missionaries...
Rapture Bound
Member
- Do you have to be Christian to believe in God?
Well, it all depends on how you define the term "believe" ... if you define it in the sense that John 3:16 uses it ... then absolutely yes.
- Do you have to agree with the institutional church's positions to believe in God?
Well, it depends how you define the term "institutional church" ... and how they answer the question, "what must I do to be saved?". If you use it in the sense of the great masses of organized, denominational institutions that profess to hold the Christian faith .... then we have a huge dilemma on our hands since the vast majority of those institutions answer that question differently. This is why in the end, God will hold each one of us personally and individually to search out and discover the answer to that question for ourselves.
Matthew 7:13-14, "13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
That's interesting. How does that work? Thanks.
I think this is problematic if we assume it has to do with the afterlife.
Is God playing a high-stakes game of hide-and-seek with our souls?
Making sport of our eternal destiny? It says, "only a few find it."
"Oh, too bad, you were so close. Better luck next time. Oh wait,
there won't be a next time. Ha, ha, ha..." (sinister laugh)
Patrick1966
Well-Known Member
I believe that the more the restrainer releases the restraints the more people are going to fall away from the faith and go down dark paths. Only God can truly know whether or not they were ever of him.
Rapture Bound
Member
So just who decides which persons inherit the title of "Bible scholar"? The elites of the institutions of "Christian higher learning ... who cannot even agree across the board concerning the doctrine of salvation. Those who graduate with high honors from one institution are deemed heretics from the other "Christian institution of higher learning" down the street from them... just saying.
John 3:1-21
English Standard Version
You Must Be Born Again
3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus[a] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You[d] must be born again.’ 8 The wind[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you[f] do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.[g] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.[h]
9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you[f] do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.[g] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.[h]
For God So Loved the World
16 “For God so loved the world,[i] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
John the Baptist Exalts Christ
22 After this Jesus and his disciples went into the Judean countryside, and he remained there with them and was baptizing. 23 John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because water was plentiful there, and people were coming and being baptized 24 (for John had not yet been put in prison).
25 Now a discussion arose between some of John's disciples and a Jew over purification. 26 And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, he who was with you across the Jordan, to whom you bore witness—look, he is baptizing, and all are going to him.” 27 John answered, “A person cannot receive even one thing unless it is given him from heaven. 28 You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, ‘I am not the Christ, but I have been sent before him.’ 29 The one who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice. Therefore this joy of mine is now complete. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.”[j]
31 He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony. 33 Whoever receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true. 34 For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. 35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
25 Now a discussion arose between some of John's disciples and a Jew over purification. 26 And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, he who was with you across the Jordan, to whom you bore witness—look, he is baptizing, and all are going to him.” 27 John answered, “A person cannot receive even one thing unless it is given him from heaven. 28 You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, ‘I am not the Christ, but I have been sent before him.’ 29 The one who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice. Therefore this joy of mine is now complete. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.”[j]
31 He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony. 33 Whoever receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true. 34 For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. 35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
Rapture Bound
Member
"That's interesting. How does that work? Thanks."
Aren't you born again? If you are, then you already know the answer to that question ... correct?
"Making sport of our eternal destiny?"
Hardly, do you call God coming to earth as a man to die an excruciatingly painful death for the sin of mankind "making sport"?
Why do you end up mocking the way to salvation so much with others?
Are you someone who is an unbeliever now today, just waiting to die and be saved in the afterlife?
That seems pointless, why make a mockery of people and their beliefs?
You can believe universalism as much as you want it doesn't bother me but it's a dangerous doctrine that cuts out a lot of the bible.
Do you enjoy other people in their plight of expressing why they believe the way they do while secretly laughing behind the screen?
That's not a good attitude, friend.
Is this world your home?
Hello to you and welcome, These will be hard sayings. Human beings in general can do great and wonderful things. They can have plenty of money, they can have jobs, they can have friends, they can even do good to their neighbors, they can be leaders, they can be in congress, they can be great...
www.christianityboard.com
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Ascribing to the 'right thing' does not qualify as knowing Jesus.
Judas ascribed to the right thing; he had the gifts Jesus gave all the disciples....even raising the dead.
This brings up another point; none of the disciples had pegged Judas as a betrayer, subsequently, paralleling the 'phenomenon' with anti-christ, he is no doubt hidden from those who do not see, masquerading as the genuine article.
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Talk to people about what they believe. Many will say they don't believe in the God of Christianity, but they believe, they are 'spiritual' and think there is some sort of god they can manipulate.
Talk to a muslim or a hindu they believe in ';God' talk to an atheist they say they don't believe in God, but to not believe one has to believe there what they are not believing in!
What do Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists say about the god we believe in?
I suppose they say they have it right and we have it wrong, Muslims, for sure.
We have holy scriptures to back up our claim, but so do they.
We built a whole religion around our beliefs, but so have they.
To be clear, I think we have something special. But I recognize our OBVIOUS bias too.
We come to the conclusion that we have something special by studying Christianity.
Those who study Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism have a broader perspective.
And will oftentimes leave Christianity as a result. Very telling.
My, my.
Throw some water on your face and reread what you wrote here.
What are you saying?
Those are good points, thanks. Still...
Does this mean that the only safe route is to put blinders on and accept what the church tells us without question?
To sit in a church pew with our head in our hands muttering, "I believe, I believe, I believe..." ???
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
That falling away took place 1500 years ago, and the man of sin was revealed, and Christians testified to that for 1000 years... Until the last 50 years or so.
If they had any sort of relationship, good or bad, they are lying if they are now claiming not to believe. Unless they were lying about having a relationship. Or the relationship was with someone else, and they are now totally confused.
Being scholars however is utterly meaningless. We have scholars telling us the world is in an existential crisis.
We had scholars telling us COVID was curable with a vaccine.
We had scholars telling us all about evolution.
We have scholars telling us about alien abductions and operations.
Meaningless drivel
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Absolutely, @Brakelite.
It's sad. That is all I know. There are so many people out there that are messed up, and there are some people who really do believe in the death, burial, and resurrection and have had an experience changed their heart with the Lord Jesus Christ, coming in to sup with them when they open the door.
When I first read this verse, Brake. I really though there would be a knock at the door one day, and that I would end up supping with him, and that also meant that the world was gonna end, that was when being young I seen the revelation as future.
Revelation 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
This verse is still viable even today though, that Jesus is there knocking at the door. It's all up to a person if they desire to let him come in or not - and they can also ask him to leave, and nullify the relationship.
That is my thoughts on it, what you think about this?
It's sad. That is all I know. There are so many people out there that are messed up, and there are some people who really do believe in the death, burial, and resurrection and have had an experience changed their heart with the Lord Jesus Christ, coming in to sup with them when they open the door.
When I first read this verse, Brake. I really though there would be a knock at the door one day, and that I would end up supping with him, and that also meant that the world was gonna end, that was when being young I seen the revelation as future.
Revelation 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
This verse is still viable even today though, that Jesus is there knocking at the door. It's all up to a person if they desire to let him come in or not - and they can also ask him to leave, and nullify the relationship.
That is my thoughts on it, what you think about this?
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