Why are Catholics so bad?

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aspen

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The U.S. Declaration of Independence is, unquestionably, a marvelous manuscript but it is hardly equivalent to the Holy Bible. History demonstrates that all empires eventually fall into ruin no matter how grand their foundation. One consistent contributing factor to their imminent demise is moral corruption

But we were talking about the government, not the Bible.

The Holy Bible also states that liberty has limits:

1Pe 2:16


How does this verse apply to nonbelievers?

Don’t confuse God’s long-suffering patience with mankind as given His Sovereign assent to their every lawless action. Multicultural Babylon and the pluralistic cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were also liberally broad-minded but their eventual demise was of Biblical proportion.

Christians are not in charge of the moral fabric of America. We are a pluralistic nation - this is not ancient Israel or a Theocracy. If you were talking about the morality of your church, I would agree that Christian standards apply, but you are talking about the nation. Your understanding of God's laws for ancient Israel simply do not apply, nor do you have the power or right to impose them on nonbelievers.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Ok. So what are you going to do about it?

The thing that is ironic about legislating morality is that it so often has the opposite affect - corruption and violence abound.


The loving Jesus succinctly said:

Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.

Another cautionary tale....ok. How does this help nonbelievers stop sinning to appease God?

Though study of the Bible may not determine one’s salvation, without it you’ll remain forever a ‘babe in Christ’ and your reward will be commensurate to your love of and obedience to the Word of God (which is Christ Jesus). You cannot rightfully claim to love God without reverencing His Word.

Jesus is not the Bible. You have no idea who I am or if I am a mature Christian or not. All you know is that we do not agree on some doctrine or theological ideas.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and our hands have handled, of the word of life.

And God’s Word plainly condemns homosexuality and the fornication of the Great Whore of Babylon. (Need I list the many scripture passages for you? Or would it do any good?)

Where have I said that homosexuality is not a sin?

Though it may be well beyond your comprehension, Aspen2, there is such a thing as “righteous hatred” (2Chr. 19:2) (Psa. 5:5) (Psa. 45:7) (Psa. 97:10)

Hating homosexuality is not going to save anyone.

Many folks claim to love baby Jesus in the manger or the loving words of the Sermon on the Mount. Curiously, not near as many share their fondness for Jesus and His Father’s wrathful side:

2Th 1:7-9

Rev 19:15

Why should we love violence? Or wrath? Or revenge? We are called to love our enemies. Nonbelievers are sinning against God, not me. God is the Judge, not me. I am called to love my neighbor, even in the midst of their destruction. I will always side with mercy over judgment.
 

veteran

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Communist-Socialism loves to try and separate the founding principles which the U.S. founders used straight from The Bible, just so they can push the "separation of Church and state" LIE, which is NOT in The Bible nor the U.S. Constitution.

Might as well be reading Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto than to listen to aspen2 on these type of matters.
 

aspen

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Veteran said:

Communist-Socialism loves to try and separate the founding principles which the U.S. founders used straight from The Bible,

Really? Is that why the architecture of Washington DC is modeled after ancient Jerusalem? Oh wait.....it is all based on Freemasonry......hmmm. Most of the Founding Fathers were either Unitarian or Deists or Freemasons or all three. Based on their theology, you would not consider them Christian.

just so they can push the "separation of Church and state" LIE, which is NOT in The Bible nor the U.S. Constitution.

Separation of Church and State was not conceived of by humanity when the Bible was written. I love the separation of church and state in America because it protects my church from interference from the government.

Might as well be reading Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto than to listen to aspen2 on these type of matters.

Have you read Marx? His ideas have never been tried or carried out on a national level. I am neither a communist, nor am I a Fascist.
 
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Veteran said:

Communist-Socialism loves to try and separate the founding principles which the U.S. founders used straight from The Bible,

Really? Is that why the architecture of Washington DC is modeled after ancient Jerusalem? Oh wait.....it is all based on Freemasonry......hmmm. Most of the Founding Fathers were either Unitarian or Deists or Freemasons or all three. Based on their theology, you would not consider them Christian.

There are many here that, likewise, hardly consider your views "Christian" either. The Pilgrims and Puritans were certainly devout Christians who came here to escape the religious tyranny of the Papacy and state-run church of England.


just so they can push the "separation of Church and state" LIE, which is NOT in The Bible nor the U.S. Constitution.

Separation of Church and State was not conceived of by humanity when the Bible was written. I love the separation of church and state in America because it protects my church from interference from the government.

You are correct on this point, Aspen2 keeping intrusive government out of the Church was the original intent of the phrase. However, the other side of that blade is now being falsely wielded as justification to remove all vestiges of faith and religion from our governments.



Might as well be reading Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto than to listen to aspen2 on these type of matters.

Have you read Marx? His ideas have never been tried or carried out on a national level. I am neither a communist, nor am I a Fascist.

You're certainly a far left-leaning socialist who unabashedly advocates the views of atheists like Marx and Engels. The ideas of a true Constitutional Republic government has also never been tried out on a national level as Federalists like Hamilton and Madison prevailed over the advocates of diversified state-run anti-Federalists like Patrick Henry and Aaron Burr.

At the Constitutional Convention in 1787, Ben Franklin, disturbed by the bitter debates among the delegates, said in a speech to the convention:

I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth–that God Governs in the affairs of men….
We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that “except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it.”…
"I therefore beg leave to move–that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessing on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service."

Prayer has opened both houses of Congress ever since.​
 

aspen

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There are many here that, likewise, hardly consider your views "Christian" either. The Pilgrims and Puritans were certainly devout Christians who came here to escape the religious tyranny of the Papacy and state-run church of England.

Not sure how people's prejudiced about me have anything do with the founding fathers theology. There were no Puritans in the early US government - they were considered far too radical.

You're certainly a far left-leaning socialist who unabashedly advocates the views of atheists like Marx and Engels.

Apparently, you have never met a far learning socialist.

The ideas of a true Constitutional Republic government has also never been tried out on a national level as Federalists like Hamilton and Madison prevailed over the advocates of diversified state-run anti-Federalists like Patrick Henry and Aaron Burr.

I agree.

At the Constitutional Convention in 1787, Ben Franklin, disturbed by the bitter debates among the delegates, said in a speech to the convention:

I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth–that God Governs in the affairs of men….
We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that “except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it.”…
"I therefore beg leave to move–that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessing on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service."

Prayer has opened both houses of Congress ever since.​

And even if prayer did not formally open Congress, no one should be able to stop a Congressman praying to God before he begins his day.
 
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Pope Benedict XVI calls for One World Government

YouTube video from a Protestant perspective:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mCFCMKQr6s


Here is the pope's encyclical in it's entirety:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20090629_caritas-in-veritate_en.html
 

Selene

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Pope Benedict XVI calls for One World Government

YouTube video from a Protestant perspective:



Here is the pope's encyclical in it's entirety:

http://www.vatican.v...eritate_en.html

I don't see anything in his encyclical for calling a world government. Besides, it's actually the United States government that appears to have more influence in world affairs than Vatican City anyway.
 

aspen

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Hah! He cannot support his views on 'moralizing nonbelievers in America through Theocracy' so he retreats to the anticatholic corner and bashes the Pope! Classic.......
 
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I don't see anything in his encyclical for calling a world government. Besides, it's actually the United States government that appears to have more influence in world affairs than Vatican City anyway.

67."In the face of the unrelenting growth of global interdependence, there is a strongly felt need, even in the midst of a global recession, for a reform of the United Nations Organization, and likewise of economic institutions and international finance, so that the concept of the family of nations can acquire real teeth."

"They also require the construction of a social order that at last conforms to the moral order, to the interconnection between moral and social spheres, and to the link between politics and the economic and civil spheres, as envisaged by the Charter of the United Nations." --Pope Benedict XVI
 

Selene

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67."In the face of the unrelenting growth of global interdependence, there is a strongly felt need, even in the midst of a global recession, for a reform of the United Nations Organization, and likewise of economic institutions and international finance, so that the concept of the family of nations can acquire real teeth."

"They also require the construction of a social order that at last conforms to the moral order, to the interconnection between moral and social spheres, and to the link between politics and the economic and civil spheres, as envisaged by the Charter of the United Nations." --Pope Benedict XVI

I still think that the United States has more influence in world affairs than any other country including Vatican City.
 

Mungo

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67."In the face of the unrelenting growth of global interdependence, there is a strongly felt need, even in the midst of a global recession, for a reform of the United Nations Organization, and likewise of economic institutions and international finance, so that the concept of the family of nations can acquire real teeth."

"They also require the construction of a social order that at last conforms to the moral order, to the interconnection between moral and social spheres, and to the link between politics and the economic and civil spheres, as envisaged by the Charter of the United Nations." --Pope Benedict XVI

“a social order that at last conforms to the moral order” – sounds good to me.

“the interconnection between moral and social spheres” – sounds good to me

“the link between politics and the economic and civil spheres” – sounds good to me

“as envisaged by the Charter of the United Nations” – isn’t USA signed up to this?
 

Erudite Celt

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@james forthwrightCATHOLIC SCRIPTURAL CONFLICTS / FALLICIES


Wow that's quite some chip or should I say seventy eight of them on your shoulder ! Lets examine the truth of some of your posts.
1. Exclusive Salvation by Traditionalist Catholics (all Protestants are heretics)
THE OFFICIAL RC STANCE=
"The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. ...it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ's body, and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church."
8. Canonization of dead saints
As far as I am aware the saints are not dead, day and night their prayers carry up before the Lord:And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
​58. Jews infiltrating Catholic Church hierarchy: You mean Jews like: Jesus and Peter?
25. Forbidding to marry priests / celibacy 1Ti_3:2,5,12; 1Ti_4:3 Mat_8:14-15, Peter was married: True Peter was married, but it is also true that both Paul and Christ himself recommended celibacy regarding the priesthood.
34. Confessions to priests / penance: We are to confess our sins to one another: James5:16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.Acts19:18 Also many of those who were now believers came, confessing and divulging their practices. Matthew 3:6 Confessing their sins, they were baptised by him in the Jordan River.
75. Sanctioning inter-racial marriage: I'm not really sure what to say here other than perhaps I can buy you a ticket to 1950s Alabama!
 

revturmoil

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The question should be, "why are Christians so judgmental!"

I know several Catholic's who have a closer walk with Christ than many Protestants.
In fact we, (being Catholic) also attend Protestant churches together!
Catholic's have their rightful place in the body of Christ. Christianity has little to do with church affiliation.
 
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First of all, I'd like to highly commend you, Erudite Celt, for being the first respondent to actually contest ANY of the 78 Conflicts I posted! Thanks for your contributions to this thread.

@james forthwrightCATHOLIC SCRIPTURAL CONFLICTS / FALLICIES


Wow, that's quite some chip or should I say seventy eight of them on your shoulder ! Lets examine the truth of some of your posts.
1. Exclusive Salvation by Traditionalist Catholics (all Protestants are heretics)

THE OFFICIAL RC STANCE=
"The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. ...it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ's body, and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church."


That seems like a reasonable ecumenical position. However, it does little in the way of repairing the damage that several centuries of brutal Catholic Inquisitions, torture, burning at the stake and general persecution of the Protestant "brethren". And what is the "official stance" regarding believers like myself, who were born into Catholicism and then embraced the tenets of Martin Luther? Also, could you supply a web site reference for the above quote?


8. Canonization of dead saints
As far as I am aware the saints are not dead, day and night their prayers carry up before the Lord:And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.


Good point! The present state of the dead is a debatable doctrinal position. Some passages refer to a state of sleep until the general resurrection, other scriptures seem to proclaim that at least some saints are present in the Kingdom. I've yet to make a definitive decision in that regard.


​58. Jews infiltrating Catholic Church hierarchy: You mean Jews like: Jesus and Peter?


No, I'm specifically referring to false Jews, (Rev. 2:9) (Rev. 3:9), the Spanish Marranos and their wily so-called Jewish brethren who have infiltrated certain Catholic sects, our media outlets and usurious financial markets.


25. Forbidding to marry priests / celibacy 1Ti_3:2,5,12; 1Ti_4:3 Mat_8:14-15, Peter was married: True Peter was married, but it is also true that both Paul and Christ himself recommended celibacy regarding the priesthood.


There are rumors that Paul was also later married. Who knows? There are definitely certain spiritual blessings associated with celibacy (I'll not debate that truth). However, Christ and Paul both accentuated that such a ministerial decision should be up to the individual NOT a mandatory dictate imposed of the Priesthood of Christ as is the official position of the Roman Catholic Church.


34. Confessions to priests / penance: We are to confess our sins to one another: James5:16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.Acts19:18 Also many of those who were now believers came, confessing and divulging their practices. Matthew 3:6 Confessing their sins, they were baptised by him in the Jordan River.


OK, point taken. However, the NT scriptures seem to declare that such confessions may also be made amongst the lay believers.


75. Sanctioning inter-racial marriage: I'm not really sure what to say here other than perhaps I can buy you a ticket to 1950s Alabama!


Seeing that my father was born in Alabama, I take particular offense to your stereotypical bigotry towards Southerners. "Hope Neil Young (and you) remember, Southern Man don't need you around anyhow!"

Do you really believe that forced integration has made our society more peaceful. Has the level of education in our school system improved since 1950? Is their more or less racial harmony? Do not the bluebirds naturally mate with other bluebirds? And likewise, the blackbirds amongst themselves? I'd gladly take your 'ticket to the 1950's, especially, if the destiny of this nation could be changed.


Also. . . feel free to respond to any of the other 78 "chips" I mentioned.


------------------
“a social order that at last conforms to the moral order” – sounds good to me.

“the interconnection between moral and social spheres” – sounds good to me

“the link between politics and the economic and civil spheres” – sounds good to me

“as envisaged by the Charter of the United Nations” – isn’t USA signed up to this?


Yes, brother, it all sounds just peachy on paper. The devil is in the details and the imposition of such grandiose socialist policies. The UN has been, for the most part, an utter failure and the thought of giving it "more teeth" as Pope Benedict XVI has inferred should send shivers down any patriots spine.
------------------


The question should be, "why are Christians so judgmental!"

I know several Catholic's who have a closer walk with Christ than many Protestants.
In fact we, (being Catholic) also attend Protestant churches together!
Catholic's have their rightful place in the body of Christ. Christianity has little to do with church affiliation.


Pagans can be just as judgmental as Christians and have little restraint from being so. No one stated or implied that many Catholics do not have close walks with Christ. Personally speaking, I am not affiliated with any established Christian denomination, so I thoroughly agree with your assessment. That being said, you'll not find all that many Catholics percentage wise, who are knowledgeable of the Word of God. And I do firmly believe that the scriptural study is important to the spiritual growth of all believers, be they Catholic or Protestant.
 

Mungo

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That seems like a reasonable ecumenical position. However, it does little in the way of repairing the damage that several centuries of brutal Catholic Inquisitions, torture, burning at the stake and general persecution of the Protestant "brethren".
And what about the brutal torture of Catholics by Protestants?

Do we really want to get into swapping atrocity stories?


Yes, brother, it all sounds just peachy on paper. The devil is in the details and the imposition of such grandiose socialist policies. The UN has been, for the most part, an utter failure and the thought of giving it "more teeth" as Pope Benedict XVI has inferred should send shivers down any patriots spine.

If it sounds peachy on paper then what’s on the paper is all you have. So it sounds peachy.

The Pope says nothing about giving the UN “more teeth”. To me it sounds like he is suggesting it does more of what it originally envisaged - and which the USA signed up to - and which you describe as “peachy”.

If you have an issue with the USA’s signing up to the UN Charter perhaps you should take it up with the USA authorities not attack the Pope about it.
 

aspen

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The question should be, "why are Christians so judgmental!"

I know several Catholic's who have a closer walk with Christ than many Protestants.
In fact we, (being Catholic) also attend Protestant churches together!
Catholic's have their rightful place in the body of Christ. Christianity has little to do with church affiliation.

Great post! I am Catholic and attend a weekly Protestant Bible Study.
 

Erudite Celt

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---------------
First of all, I'd like to highly commend you, Erudite Celt, for being the first respondent to actually contest ANY of the 78 Conflicts I posted! Thanks for your contributions to this thread.




That seems like a reasonable ecumenical position. However, it does little in the way of repairing the damage that several centuries of brutal Catholic Inquisitions, torture, burning at the stake and general persecution of the Protestant "brethren". And what is the "official stance" regarding believers like myself, who were born into Catholicism and then embraced the tenets of Martin Luther? Also, could you supply a web site reference for the above quote?





Good point! The present state of the dead is a debatable doctrinal position. Some passages refer to a state of sleep until the general resurrection, other scriptures seem to proclaim that at least some saints are present in the Kingdom. I've yet to make a definitive decision in that regard.





No, I'm specifically referring to false Jews, (Rev. 2:9) (Rev. 3:9), the Spanish Marranos and their wily so-called Jewish brethren who have infiltrated certain Catholic sects, our media outlets and usurious financial markets.





There are rumors that Paul was also later married. Who knows? There are definitely certain spiritual blessings associated with celibacy (I'll not debate that truth). However, Christ and Paul both accentuated that such a ministerial decision should be up to the individual NOT a mandatory dictate imposed of the Priesthood of Christ as is the official position of the Roman Catholic Church.





OK, point taken. However, the NT scriptures seem to declare that such confessions may also be made amongst the lay believers.





Seeing that my father was born in Alabama, I take particular offense to your stereotypical bigotry towards Southerners. "Hope Neil Young (and you) remember, Southern Man don't need you around anyhow!"

Do you really believe that forced integration has made our society more peaceful. Has the level of education in our school system improved since 1950? Is their more or less racial harmony? Do not the bluebirds naturally mate with other bluebirds? And likewise, the blackbirds amongst themselves? I'd gladly take your 'ticket to the 1950's, especially, if the destiny of this nation could be changed.


Also. . . feel free to respond to any of the other 78 "chips" I mentioned.


------------------



Yes, brother, it all sounds just peachy on paper. The devil is in the details and the imposition of such grandiose socialist policies. The UN has been, for the most part, an utter failure and the thought of giving it "more teeth" as Pope Benedict XVI has inferred should send shivers down any patriots spine.
------------------





Pagans can be just as judgmental as Christians and have little restraint from being so. No one stated or implied that many Catholics do not have close walks with Christ. Personally speaking, I am not affiliated with any established Christian denomination, so I thoroughly agree with your assessment. That being said, you'll not find all that many Catholics percentage wise, who are knowledgeable of the Word of God. And I do firmly believe that the scriptural study is important to the spiritual growth of all believers, be they Catholic or Protestant.
No offence was intended towards your father, but I think you know well that I was referring to the segregation issues the state had and the legacy it has left. I live in the Provence of Ulster, Northern Ireland were walls are still being built between Roman Catholic and Protestant communities. The list of "faults" you posted are often used as an excuse to murder Catholics here! It's a sickening and medieval culture. At this time of year you will see men marching all over Ulster carrying swords! I am not a Catholic myself but I do agree with some of the doctrine they teach. I believe that confession should be part of every Christians life. As you said confessions should be among the congregation and not in a box. I think all Christians should read the1st century Didache to get an impression of how a community of believers should live. If your confession revealed that you had committed a crime the church elders would take you to the authorities for your due punishment under the law, no protecting murderers or sex offenders.
Again sorry for any offence I have caused.
The Celt.
 

revturmoil

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No offence was intended towards your father, but I think you know well that I was referring to the segregation issues the state had and the legacy it has left. I live in the Provence of Ulster, Northern Ireland were walls are still being built between Roman Catholic and Protestant communities. The list of "faults" you posted are often used as an excuse to murder Catholics here! It's a sickening and medieval culture. At this time of year you will see men marching all over Ulster carrying swords! I am not a Catholic myself but I do agree with some of the doctrine they teach. I believe that confession should be part of every Christians life. As you said confessions should be among the congregation and not in a box. I think all Christians should read the1st century Didache to get an impression of how a community of believers should live. If your confession revealed that you had committed a crime the church elders would take you to the authorities for your due punishment under the law, no protecting murderers or sex offenders.
Again sorry for any offence I have caused.
The Celt.

You are quite right that... I think all Christians should read the1st century Didache.

That's how the Catholic church developed it's rituals and sacraments. It also deals with the office of prophets, elders, etc.
 

mjrhealth

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Call me foolish

Christ is building His church,
It is being built on revelation,
Revelation comes from God, Jesus and the Holy spirit,
Christ only ever called men to Himself never sent them to church or anyone else, " has He changed?"
Christ says that His sheep hear His voice, and they know Him and He knows them,
If I have Christ why do I need religion, what is it that they have that Christ cannot provide, salvation is His alone it belongs to no man, religion or denomination,
If Christ has forgiven my sins why do i need to tell a priest, I can tell Jesus if I need to , He isnt deaf.
If Christ has given us the Holy Spirit to teach us the truth why do we run to men to listen to their opinions and lies.
I belong to Christ I am a part of His Church it is not called the catholic church or protestant or any other it just is.
I love Jesus, He loves me I am not perfect, He is perfecting me, I am His He is mine, What more do I need

In All His Love
 

Arnie Manitoba

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I am not a Catholic .... I became a Christian outside the denominational church system and I have chosen to not affiliate with any particular group.

But predominately I attend Protestant churches.

Now here is my point .... I had heard my share of "Catholic bashing" from (non-Catholics) .... . But I had a good friend (who was Catholic) and he was constantly inviting me to his Sunday service to hear his music .... I resisted at first .... then decided to go simply to support and encourage him in his musical endeavors.

It was one of the most Christian church services I have ever attended. Period.

Maybe that particular Catholic Group was unique , but I decided never again would I let someone else poison my mind with false judgements of other Christians.

Another interesting thing was I recognized many people in the congregation whom I had known and respected for many years .... it was an "Aha" moment .... I always knew there was "something different" about them. I now credit it to their Catholic - Christian lifestyle.

In the years since .... if somebody bashes Catholics ... I listen and observe carefully ...... and it is now my opinion that their motive is based on an inner pride that is saying "I am better than them"

I do not think The Lord would approve.

By the way .... my friend who invited me to hear his music (his name is Dan) .... well , he was not all that talented on his guitar ... but he persevered anyway.

He has now spent the last 22 years as a Catholic Missionary in Canada's far north ... working with Eskimos and Indians .... and yes ... teaching them to play and sing Christian music.

The few times he takes a vacation down to Southern Canada .. .... he is utterly exhausted and has to ask his friends and family to give him time to rest before his does his visiting..

I am sure I could compile a list of things I dislike about the Traditional Catholic Church ..... but I could probably make a longer list of things I dislike about the Protestant Church.

But my function as a Christian man is to examine myself and try to overcome my own faults ....

My sinful nature hates it when I stay busy examining myself ..... my sinful nature finds it much more enjoyable to find fault with others.

What does your sinful nature enjoy most ??

Best wishes
Arnie M.

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