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Why are Catholics so bad?

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by Justinian 1, Jan 29, 2012.

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  1. JLB

    JLB Member

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    Do you worship Mary as the queen of heaven?
     
  2. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Why would I? Do you worship the Bible?
     
  3. James Forthwright

    James Forthwright Member

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    Aspen2: All Catholics are born again by spirit and water during baptism.

    Are all Roman Catholics, therefore, saved without volition and willful repentance before their First Communion/Confirmation?



    [​IMG]JLB: Do you worship Mary as the queen of heaven?

    Aspen2: Why would I?

    Do you pray to Mary and other saints? Is/was Mary "ever-virgin"? Was Mary conceived without original sin? Do you honor Catholic feast days? Do you accept Catholic doctrine re Sunday as the "new Sabbath"?


    Aspen2: Do you worship the Bible?

    You do make a valid point here, Aspen2. Unfortunately, many Protestant's reverence for the Bible could be interpreted as bordering on idolatry.

    Jesus is the The Word of God (Jn 1:1) & (1Jn 1:1) not some leather-bound book in various languages and translations. Neither do I believe that every solitary verse contained in the Bible is necessarily "God's final Word". "Inspired", Yes, definitely. "The unmitigated Word of God in every instance", No. I also believe that what the indwelt Holy Spirit speaks to each one of our hearts should be considered as "the Word of God".

    The Holy Bible's (BOTH testaments) purpose IMO is to direct its readers to the Son of God and His salvation gospel message. Everything else that may be gleaned from the sacred text is secondary in nature. That being said, I do unashamedly confess that:

    I Love the Bible.
     
  4. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    The scriptures say that you must be born again to be saved - therefore, being born again is certainly one of the qualities of a person who is saved. It does not say it is the only requirement, nor does it tell us how many times we must be born again. Jesus also tells us to pick up our cross and follow Him, daily. Every time we choose to surrender our pain and suffering in this world and choose to follow Him by returning His love and loving our neighbors we are born again. Baptism is the first time, but it is not the last.

    We are justified by Christ when He calls us to Him, forgives us, accepts us and allows us to experience His love. Then we practice over sanctification for the rest of our lives when we learn to return His love and love our neighbors through service. Not only does this sanctify us, it spreads the Kingdom of God.

    A Christian life is not static - it is not wrapped up in a one time event, instead, it is dynamic - growing, practicing, learning, loving and spreading the Good News.

    The Catholic Church teaches that worship is reserved for God alone. Continuing to communicate with the entire Body of Christ - the Cloud of witnesses - those who are not separated from the love of God through death - is not restricted. After all we are one body - and God is is the God of the living, not the dead. So yes, I do pray with the entire body and that includes saints. Christ also spoke with Moses and Elijah during the Transfiguration.

    I am glad that you acknowledge that some Protestants fall into the trap of idolatry when it comes to the Bible - I recognize that Protestant doctrine does not teach this practice. It is based in ignorance. The same can be said for uneducated Catholics who worship saints in error.
     
  5. Warrior

    Warrior New Member

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    Come on people, come on. Turn away from idolatry sins!! Come to Jesus Christ. Repent!!
     
  6. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Why are you assuming that people are not repenting from their sins?
     
  7. James Forthwright

    James Forthwright Member

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    Here's some Catholics standing on the front lines that I'm proud to call my brethren:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za0ZvliA3AM&feature=youtu.be
     
  8. Selene

    Selene New Member

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    This is a long list you have against the Catholic Church. I don't think that all Catholics are bad, but I'm not surprised that the Catholic Church is portrayed as something bad and is being persecuted today. However, regarding the first one on your list....the Traditional Catholics are NOT considered Roman Catholics. They go against the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, and these Catholics are not recognized by the Vatican because they were excommunicated by the late Pope John Paul II. When a group is excommunicated, they have no standing nor recognition with the Roman Catholic Church. Contrary to what these Traditional Catholics teach, the Roman Catholic Church teach that salvation is also possible in the Protestant communities.

    When Jesus walked the earth 2000 years ago, He DID lose a large majority of His followers when He taught them about being the Bread of Life (See John 6). Many of His followers left because they could not understand Him when He taught them that they must eat His flesh and drink His blood to have eternal life. There are also many people who left the Roman Catholic Church for the same reason. They don't understand the Church's teachings.

    There are many rules in the Catholic Church. But God also had many rules. God view is that of a family. And in the family of God, there are certain rules to follow. Catholics recognize that Jesus Christ Himself wants us to obey certain rules and regulations - namely those that He and the Apostles set forth. This should be true of all Christians.

    Christianity is about relationships, particular our relationship with God and with all the members of the Body of Christ. And like any human relationship one has with a wife, husband, parents, sibling, children, co-workers, or friends, how we follow the rules of those relationships matters a great deal to how happy or unhappy those relationships will be.

    If you're a parent, you expect your children to obey the rules you've laid down for your household. For example, you have a close, loving, relationsip with your twelve-year old son, but you also expect him to clean up his room, eat dinner with the family, take out the trash, and do his homework. There are certain things he must do and other things - such as don't play with matches, don't tease your sister, and don't lie.These are rules you impose on your children, not because you're "hung up" on rules, but because you know those rules are good for them and, if followed, they will contribute to a happy and harmonious home. In other words, the more we live by the rules, the better our relationships are. And if this is true of a human family, it's even truer of God's family - the Church.

    The same is true about other rules the Lord has given us, such as: Give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, visit the imprisoned, shelter the homeless, believe in Me, be baptized for the remission of your sins, eat My flesh and drink My blood in the Eucharist, listen to the teachers I have appointed and commissioned to instruct you, obey the teachings of the Church I established, and so on. St. John echoes the Lord's words saying:

    "Beloved, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God; and we receive from him whatever we ask, because we keep His commandments and do what pleases Him. And this is His commandment, that we should believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as He has commanded us. All who keep His commandments abide in Him, and He in them. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit which He has given us." (1 John 3:21-24).

    By paying attention to the rules the Lord has given to His family, the Church, we are truely living out our relationship with Him and with one another, as He desires us to. By following these rules, God is preparing us for Heaven. Afterall, one can't just do whatever they want in Heaven. God is in command even in Heaven, and we are to follow His rules even in His kingdom.
     
  9. Mungo

    Mungo Well-Known Member

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    It could be quite interesting to discus James' list one by one, but I suspect that will not happen in any sensible way.

    Skimming though this thread it seems to have deteriorated past the point of being salvageable.
     
  10. Selene

    Selene New Member

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    It can be discussed so long as the discussion remains civil. I would not expect Protestants and Catholics to agree but the important thing is hearing what the Catholic and Protestant person has to say rather than straying off the topic and making personal judgements....which unfortunately often happens.
     
  11. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Yay!! It is my sister in Christ, Selene!

    bless you sister!!


    I am wondering - why do you suppose people may be angry and even violent towards the Christian protesters?
     
  12. Selene

    Selene New Member

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    Hi Aspen,

    It's been a long time since I posted on this forum board. I just got back from Washington DC and New York City, but I will be flying back to the United States again in a few weeks. I'll be flying to Chicago on June 15th. I've been very busy, but school is coming to an end soon, and then I'll be on my two month summer vacation.
     
  13. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    I have just come back, as well. I am interested in your discernment process - I will pm.
     
  14. James Forthwright

    James Forthwright Member

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    It's not anger, per se, that I have a problem with. Somethings merit righteous anger. It's how one chooses to deal with anger that you should notice in the video. These pro-traditional marriage protestors where doing NOTHING but voicing their Constitutional rights of free speech. Instead of calmly contending with opposing viewpoints in a civilized manner, the pro-homosexual crowd, instead, instinctively lashes out with puerile acts of violence and hate. Tolerance to a liberal, is only granted to those who completely agree with their position.

    The true spiritual nature of both sides can easily discerned by examining how they react to adversity. One polite, smiling, well-dressed group held signs affirming the Word of God. While the other generally shabbily attired rabble cursed and flashed vulgar hand gestures, attacked and burned literature and desecrated the Bible. The blatant distinction between the righteous and unrighteous was apparent for anyone "with eyes to see". Choose your side wisely Aspen2!
     
  15. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Thank you for your response. I agree that activists and uneducated liberals are just as offensive as the activists and uneducated conservatives on the right. Both forms of activism - peaceful or not, are going to draw activists from the other side.

    I remember walking across campus at the University of Oregon and getting the same treatment from conservative christian activists as the rest of the student body. The activist were there to report controversy from the lives of the people they were condemning. They could careless about the individual circumstances of the people they were condemning.

    Learning to be flexible and willing to understand the perspective of our opponents in our only chance.
     
  16. James Forthwright

    James Forthwright Member

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    What mealy-mouthed tripe!

    It's NOT "flexibility", compassion or some gross mis-understanding of the homosexual crowd that Christians need to learn. All we need to do is continue to preach the Truth as contained in the Word of God. I EXPECT to be hated from the sodomites and their limp-wristed "flexible Christian" supporters like you. It's the price Jesus said that His true followers would have to pay:

    John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.


    Those mild-mannered Catholic Christian brethren in the video were NOT there with their video cameras just to "document the controversy" or to show the pro-homos vile actions. Those cameras were their ONLY DEFENSE to show police once they were attacked. I'm not near as passive. My sign would probably be velcroed to a baseball bat!
     
  17. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    LOL! Classic! An attempt to be fair-minded interpreted as tripe.....stereotypes of hillbilly, abound!

    Your need to impose your values on nonchristians is blatant and appalling.

    Please continue to use ad hominem - I consider it an honor. I am defending the rights of Christians and sinners. All Americans have rights under the Constitution.
     
  18. James Forthwright

    James Forthwright Member

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    You've shown your true allegiance, Aspen2. You have no honor and defend only sodomites and the milquetoast variety of pseudo-Christians who don't study the Word of God. Where in the Constitution is buggery listed as a protected right?
     
  19. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is a well-known phrase in the United States Declaration of Independence and considered by some as part of one of the most well crafted, influential sentences in the history of the English language.[sup][1][/sup] These three aspects are listed among the "unalienable rights" or sovereign rights of man

    God allows it. Who told you that you had the right to stand in the way of God? We live in a pluralistic society.

    Since when does reading the Bible determine whether someone is a Christian or not? Does the Bible save you or does Christ?

    Jesus has commissioned us to love our neighbors - not sure why you have so much hatred towards nonchristians, homosexuals, sinners, or Christians you have determined to be pseudo-christians. All that hatred is rooted in fear - yet we have nothing to fear if we love Jesus.
     
  20. James Forthwright

    James Forthwright Member

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    The U.S. Declaration of Independence is, unquestionably, a marvelous manuscript but it is hardly equivalent to the Holy Bible. History demonstrates that all empires eventually fall into ruin no matter how grand their foundation. One consistent contributing factor to their imminent demise is moral corruption.

    The Holy Bible also states that liberty has limits:

    1Pe 2:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloak of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. --KJV


    1Pe 2:16 Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God. --NASB





    Don’t confuse God’s long-suffering patience with mankind as given His Sovereign assent to their every lawless action. Multicultural Babylon and the pluralistic cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were also liberally broad-minded but their eventual demise was of Biblical proportion.

    Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


    The loving Jesus succinctly said:

    Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.


    Though study of the Bible may not determine one’s salvation, without it you’ll remain forever a ‘babe in Christ’ and your reward will be commensurate to your love of and obedience to the Word of God (which is Christ Jesus). You cannot rightfully claim to love God without reverencing His Word.


    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and our hands have handled, of the word of life.

    And God’s Word plainly condemns homosexuality and the fornication of the Great Whore of Babylon. (Need I list the many scripture passages for you? Or would it do any good?)



    Though it may be well beyond your comprehension, Aspen2, there is such a thing as “righteous hatred” (2Chr. 19:2) (Psa. 5:5) (Psa. 45:7) (Psa. 97:10)


    Many folks claim to love baby Jesus in the manger or the loving words of the Sermon on the Mount. Curiously, not near as many share their fondness for Jesus and His Father’s wrathful side:

    2Th 1:7-9 And to you who are troubled, rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with the angels of his power: (8) In a flame of fire, giving vengeance to them who know not God and who obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. (9) Who shall suffer eternal punishment in destruction, from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his power:

    Rev 14:20 And the press was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the press, up to the horses' bridles, for a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

    Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
     
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