Why Baptize a Baby?

[BreadOfLife]

This does not address my original comment and instead introduces more erroneous assumptions and attacks.

WHY ARE YOU ATTACKING ME?
Please stop. Please be civil ,as I have been to you.

I'm not attacking you - I'm simply asking you what faith tradition or denomination you adhere to.
This IS beginning to sound all too familiar, though . . .

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I'm not attacking you - I'm simply asking you what faith tradition or denomination you adhere to.

You (falsely) assumed I was a Protestant. And then accused me of hiding. And still not addressed the attack here "That's what the tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects need to ask themselves - not Christ's Church."

No I'm not Catholic. And I am not attacking Catholics. I am not attacking you. Please quit attacking me. Please be mindful of your future comments and stop these attacks. I am working so hard to be civil here, but that does not mean I appreciate being attacked.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You (falsely) assumed I was a Protestant. And then accused me of hiding. And still not addressed the attack here "That's what the tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects need to ask themselves - not Christ's Church."

No I'm not Catholic. And I am not attacking Catholics. I am not attacking you. Please quit attacking me. Please be mindful of your future comments and stop these attacks. I am working so hard to be civil here, but that does not mean I appreciate being attacked.

So, you're NOT a Protestant?
Are you Orthodox?
Are you Jewish?
Are you Mormon?
Are you Jehovah's Witness?

How does "tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering sects" affect YOU if you're NOT Protestant?
There are not tens of thousands of sects of ANY of the above-mentioned groups.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

So, you're NOT a Protestant?
Are you Orthodox?
Are you Jewish?
Are you Mormon?
Are you Jehovah's Witness?

How does "tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering sects" affect YOU if you're NOT Protestant?
There are not tens of thousands of sects of ANY of the above-mentioned groups.

It doesn't matter what specific non-Catholic faith I hold. You attacked all non-Catholics with your comment. Please acknowledge the your words hurt me rather than continue to chase "what denomination are you" red herrings. It's just giving the appearance of dodging the main point.

 

[brakelite]

No - it's for the forgiveness of our sins and the cleansing of our impurities (Ezek. 36:25-27, Acts 2:38). It is how we are brought into the Family of God (Eph. 4:5-6).

It is NOT merely a symbol - but a necessity for salvation (John 3:5).

Then I guess the theif on the cross is out of luck, despite Jesus own promise.

 

[brakelite]

No - it's for the forgiveness of our sins and the cleansing of our impurities (Ezek. 36:25-27, Acts 2:38). It is how we are brought into the Family of God (Eph. 4:5-6).

I have to strongly disagree BoL. Baptism is not the cure-all for the sin problem. If that were so, then Jesus never needed to die.
KJV 1 John 1

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Baptism certainly plays a part as it is in obedience to Jesus's express command that all should be baptized, if they can, but baptism is one party of a package deal. That text you quoted above included repentance. And I know you are not a supporter of OSAS, therefore living a life of faithfulness is also essential to salvation. So BoL, baptism, while important, on its own does not save anyone. Certainly not babies who have not received repented... For goodness sake, they haven't even sinned yet. They certainly inherited the sinful nature that has for millennia been handed down generation to generation, demonstrated by their inherent selfishness every time they want something... But baptism for babies? Utterly meaningless.

 

[Taken]

No - I definitely understand what it is and what it does.
I am trying to find SOME common ground so we can possibly agree on at least PART of what it does.

Seems you left out some important elements....

What Baptism?

A Baptism performed BY MEN?
Or
A Baptism performed BY GOD?

Specifically WHICH ONE are you speaking of?

And are you TEACHING those two Baptisims ARE the same thing?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Sooooo, you AGREE that Baptism saves us??

Baptism of the Holy Spirit, performed BY God Saves a man.

If SO then why NOT Baptize babies??

Man does not have the POWER to FORCE Gods HOLY SPIRIT into another, who has NOT himself FREELY CHOSEN to accept Gods HOLY SPIRIT.

And - if you don't - what was so "idiotic" about what I said??

You have already Revealed your BELIEF...
That YOU were a BABY, and without having made a CHOICE TO BE BAPTIZED....
WERE BAPTIZED, with the "HOLY SPIRIT"...
(Performed by a MAN, at the Request of your parents).

I disagree, with such BELIEF.

Instead of getting so defensive - try having a civil conversation.

TRY not speaking FOR ME...then there would be NO ISSUE of EVERY THREAD you POST ON, being DIVERTED to "YOUR" favorite debate of Catholicism VS Protestantism.

You have made it abundantly CLEAR, you are a Catholic, your beliefs are based on what the Catholic church teaches....

Dude, the more you teach what Catholics teach...the more I disagree with you.

The more you reveal "you are the representative of the Catholic church"...
And the "TACTICS" you "USE"...

(Which ARE: REWORDING and CHANGING what people actually say....TO YOUR WORDS;
THEN...
TEACH what Catholics Believe is AGAINST...
The VERY WORDS...that are YOURS, that YOU SPEAK, and "falsely PRETEND" it is an others words.)

You being a Catholic church representative...
Simply leaves me BELIEVING...you "USE" "TACTICS" you Learned from your "Catholic church"...

And I find that "laughable"... that ANY Church teaches its members TO: Reword and Twist an others WORDS and Beliefs....as a METHOD to make "themselves" "THEIR CHURCH" "APPEAR" as the ONLY "true" teachers.

Apparently, you have missed a very BASIC LESSON....that is Satan's TACTIC.....and it is more than Obvious....your TACTIC as well.

CIVIL? You want a CIVIL conversation?
Stop playing the Devils Advocate!

I'll speak for myself, without any input from you!

You can agree or disagree, it affects me in no way.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[mjrhealth]

It doesn't matter what specific non-Catholic faith I hold. You attacked all non-Catholics with your comment. Please acknowledge the your words hurt me rather than continue to chase "what denomination are you" red herrings. It's just giving the appearance of dodging the main point.

You hurt, I wouldnt be concerned, he rejects Christ at His every word, and every word He speaks against Gods children He speaks against Christ, he doesnt have to answer to us, his time will come.

 

[Taken]

You (falsely) assumed I was a Protestant. And then accused me of hiding. And still not addressed the attack here "That's what the tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects need to ask themselves - not Christ's Church."

No I'm not Catholic. And I am not attacking Catholics. I am not attacking you. Please quit attacking me. Please be mindful of your future comments and stop these attacks. I am working so hard to be civil here, but that does not mean I appreciate being attacked.

BOL can not help himself.

Catholic IS A LABEL, he proudly wears, and DOES what he has been TAUGHT...

IF one is NOT admittedly wearing the "CATHOLIC" Label....dig, hound, harass the other Until they reveal "THEIR" Label to him, SO he can "ATTACK" their Label, while claiming he is "not attacking them".

It's the "politically correct" game, that is his "cutesy" method to get away with calling others wrong and liars and incapable of having to face...the Truth....of what he has been taught all his life MIGHT be Wrong!

You have in numerous posts asked him to be civil... and he has a pocket full of excuses.
He IS the poster child for the Catholic "way".

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

So, you're NOT a Protestant?
Are you Orthodox?
Are you Jewish?
Are you Mormon?
Are you Jehovah's Witness?

How does "tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering sects" affect YOU if you're NOT Protestant?
There are not tens of thousands of sects of ANY of the above-mentioned groups.

You fail to recognize Protestants Do NOT "elect a human holy father" to perpetually change what their underlings MUST BELIEVE.

Non Catholic people, regardless of the SECT they choose to, or choose not to associate with...
Is a person who simply is claiming to Trust the Word of God, regardless of what OTHER religious SECTS teach Men MUST BELIEVE.

Glory To God,
Taken

 

[brakelite]

I'm ONLY here to expose lies - and there are PLENTY of them here..

I haven't read all 7000 of your posts, so I am somewhat unwilling to make such a bold claim that you haven't uncovered or disclosed a lie or two along the way. So I am willing to concede that once in a while, you may have hit the jackpot. But what I have also noticed, a number of things.

• You certainly do not back away from anything that even hints at an error in anyone's thinking regarding Catholic doctrine/canon law, but fail utterly in giving the benefit of the doubt that maybe that person is simply mistaken, by constantly claiming he is lying.
• If someone kills someone with premeditation and deliberation, it is murder. They are a murderer. If someone steals something, it is theft. He is a thief. If some lies with a woman other than his wife, it is adultery. He is an adulterer. If someone bows down to an idol, it is idolatry. He is an idolater. You do not have to be an habitual murderer to be a murderer. Nor an habitual thief, adulterer, or idolater to be classified as a thief, adulterer, or idolater. If someone lies, they are lying. They are a liar. You do not have to be an habitual liar to be such. It is time you stopped calling people liars. You gravely insult everyone on this forum.
• I have also noticed that when someone offers a genuine and fair criticism of Catholicism, you respond in a premeditated technique that is an attempt to accomplish a number of things...
  
  1. Insult the person's intelligence by calling into question his motives and sources...asinine...ignorant...lying...anti-Catholic...
  2. Create a straw man you can readily deal with, while diverting attention away from the case under discussion.
• Something I have mentioned before. You claim to be Christian. Fair enough. I am not one to pass judgement on what you believe to be the case. There are certainly many fine genuine Christians in the world who would never dream of being known as anything other than Catholic. However, that said, your constant belligerence and antagonism towards others, even some who are being quite conciliatory and civil, does make one wonder if indeed you are Christian, because we are told to judge people by their fruits, not by the doctrine or their knowledge. Your fruits BoL are not particularly savoury. Not only do they do a disservice to your church...not only do they do a disservice to Christ...but they also do a disservice to yourself, for they powerfully undermine everything you may contribute to the discussions, even those contributions that may have some validity.

If your self-appointed role as described above was true, I suggest your post count would be possibly could have been reduced by 90%. Then of the remaining 10% remove those which add nothing to the conversation or debate but insult and condemnation, another 5%. Your presence and contributions here then would likely be far less perhaps, but infinitely more acceptable and readable. Maybe even enjoyable.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Any true Christian will Baptises his own children when a baby because they belong to Gods family and will bring that child up as a Christian and anyone who would not is a infidel.

Naming ceremonies are Satanic and proof that the parents are not worthy Christians.

One who knows Jesus is the Christ would always Baptise there Child, because they will surely bring one up in the community of Christianity.

All this modern day rubbish of the child or adult deciding only has to do with one coming from a non Christian family.

You are not saved by being baptised but welcomed into Christianity and for the repentance of your sin, as a people of God. but that is not the whole point as being Born Again is the real deal God wants you to become, so that you are then Baptised in the Holy Spirit.

John the Baptist was not worthy of such a Baptism but Jesus Christ was, so we find that there is a huge difference in this over water Baptism.
No one can Baptise one of the Holy Spirit, but Jesus Christ.
Water Baptism does not save you but it's the best path to lead one to salvation.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

BOL can not help himself.

Catholic IS A LABEL, he proudly wears, and DOES what he has been TAUGHT...

IF one is NOT admittedly wearing the "CATHOLIC" Label....dig, hound, harass the other Until they reveal "THEIR" Label to him, SO he can "ATTACK" their Label, while claiming he is "not attacking them".

It's the "politically correct" game, that is his "cutesy" method to get away with calling others wrong and liars and incapable of having to face...the Truth....of what he has been taught all his life MIGHT be Wrong!

You have in numerous posts asked him to be civil... and he has a pocket full of excuses.
He IS the poster child for the Catholic "way".

God Bless,
Taken

You hurt, I wouldnt be concerned, he rejects Christ at His every word, and every word He speaks against Gods children He speaks against Christ, he doesnt have to answer to us, his time will come.

"Catholic" can be a empty label, just as "Protestant" or "Christian" or any other one can be. But that doesn't mean it always is-- not be any stretch. I have met many Catholics who are real children of God and upstanding people that way-- burning unmistakeable testimonies. There is nothing about being "Catholic" which mandates poor behavior anymore than any other "Christian" label mandates it (and I have seen these bad behaviors throughout every different denomination).

Now, what course of behavior @BreadOfLife takes is up to him/her. I've asked for civilness and he/she can choose that route or a different one. It's all up to the individual. I sincerely hope she/he acknowledge the hurt they caused me and apologies for it, rather than the bad behavior of retreating behind denomination labels.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Any true Christian will Baptises his own children when a baby because they belong to Gods family and will bring that child up as a Christian and anyone who would not is a infidel.

Naming ceremonies are Satanic and proof that the parents are not worthy Christians.

One who knows Jesus is the Christ would always Baptise there Child, because they will surely bring one up in the community of Christianity.

All this modern day rubbish of the child or adult deciding only has to do with one coming from a non Christian family.

You are not saved by being baptised but welcomed into Christianity and for the repentance of your sin, as a people of God. but that is not the whole point as being Born Again is the real deal God wants you to become, so that you are then Baptised in the Holy Spirit.

John the Baptist was not worthy of such a Baptism but Jesus Christ was, so we find that there is a huge difference in this over water Baptism.
No one can Baptise one of the Holy Spirit, but Jesus Christ.
Water Baptism does not save you but it's the best path to lead one to salvation.

(Seeking clarification on your beliefs here)
Describing a situation here--

A Christian couple raises their child 100% in the Gospel, teaching from scripture, praying, church every Sunday, etc. 100% upstanding example of Christian life for the entire family. Part of their faith is that believe in Christ is what saves, and a believer's baptism is symbolic of that rebirth in Christ. So they don't baptize their unbelieving infant. Instead they teach and encourage their child's spiritual development, and celebrate when that the young person does choose to accept Christ and be baptized.

Do you feel that such a family is Satanic because they believe in a believer's baptism?

 

[BreadOfLife]

It doesn't matter what specific non-Catholic faith I hold. You attacked all non-Catholics with your comment. Please acknowledge the your words hurt me rather than continue to chase "what denomination are you" red herrings. It's just giving the appearance of dodging the main point.

Uhhhh, no - the tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects refer to PROTESTANTISM.
If you're NOT a Protestant - then it doesn't refer to YOU.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Then I guess the theif on the cross is out of luck, despite Jesus own promise.

No he's not.
He had a Baptism of desire.

You see - he was kind of "busy" at the time and couldn't be baptized with water..

 

[BreadOfLife]

I have to strongly disagree BoL. Baptism is not the cure-all for the sin problem. If that were so, then Jesus never needed to die.
KJV 1 John 1

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Baptism certainly plays a part as it is in obedience to Jesus's express command that all should be baptized, if they can, but baptism is one party of a package deal. That text you quoted above included repentance. And I know you are not a supporter of OSAS, therefore living a life of faithfulness is also essential to salvation. So BoL, baptism, while important, on its own does not save anyone. Certainly not babies who have not received repented... For goodness sake, they haven't even sinned yet. They certainly inherited the sinful nature that has for millennia been handed down generation to generation, demonstrated by their inherent selfishness every time they want something... But baptism for babies? Utterly meaningless.

That's NOT what the Bible says . . .
1 Pet. 3:21
Baptism, which corresponds to this, NOW SAVES YOU, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ

The blood of Christ is WHAT saves us - but we are saved THROUGH Baptism in Christ.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Seems you left out some important elements....

What Baptism?

A Baptism performed BY MEN?
Or
A Baptism performed BY GOD?

Specifically WHICH ONE are you speaking of?

And are you TEACHING those two Baptisims ARE the same thing?

Glory to God,
Taken

The Baptism of our Lord - the PROTOTYPE shows us that they are the SAME.
Jesus was baptized by a man - but guess WHO showed up?? The FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT.

Our response and obedience to God's calling - His grace - is what invites the Holy Spirit to indwell us.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Baptism of the Holy Spirit, performed BY God Saves a man.
Man does not have the POWER to FORCE Gods HOLY SPIRIT into another, who has NOT himself FREELY CHOSEN to accept Gods HOLY SPIRIT.
You have already Revealed your BELIEF...
That YOU were a BABY, and without having made a CHOICE TO BE BAPTIZED....
WERE BAPTIZED, with the "HOLY SPIRIT"...
(Performed by a MAN, at the Request of your parents).
I disagree, with such BELIEF.
TRY not speaking FOR ME...then there would be NO ISSUE of EVERY THREAD you POST ON, being DIVERTED to "YOUR" favorite debate of Catholicism VS Protestantism.
You have made it abundantly CLEAR, you are a Catholic, your beliefs are based on what the Catholic church teaches....
Dude, the more you teach what Catholics teach...the more I disagree with you.
The more you reveal "you are the representative of the Catholic church"...
And the "TACTICS" you "USE"...
(Which ARE: REWORDING and CHANGING what people actually say....TO YOUR WORDS;
THEN...
TEACH what Catholics Believe is AGAINST...
The VERY WORDS...that are YOURS, that YOU SPEAK, and "falsely PRETEND" it is an others words.)
You being a Catholic church representative...
Simply leaves me BELIEVING...you "USE" "TACTICS" you Learned from your "Catholic church"...
And I find that "laughable"... that ANY Church teaches its members TO: Reword and Twist an others WORDS and Beliefs....as a METHOD to make "themselves" "THEIR CHURCH" "APPEAR" as the ONLY "true" teachers.
Apparently, you have missed a very BASIC LESSON....that is Satan's TACTIC.....and it is more than Obvious....your TACTIC as well.
CIVIL? You want a CIVIL conversation?
Stop playing the Devils Advocate!
I'll speak for myself, without any input from you!
You can agree or disagree, it affects me in no way.
Glory to God,
Taken

You DODGED the answer.

I said that YOU didn't believe that baptism saves us - which is TRUE.
YOU said that I made an "idiotic" remark be saying that.

WHAT is so "idiotic" about saying that YOU don't believe this??