Why Civilization Should Defend Zionism

[amigo de christo]

Have you noticed how everything to do with this temporal world seems to be a mixture of both good and evil, in varying degrees? And that is another way of saying impure.

There is none righteous, no not one. Apart from Christ, the Son of God.

have you noticed that is exactly how the sepent works . its exactly how many preachers in Christendom also work .
But let us notice that ALWAYS in THE BIBLE the WORDS OF TRUTH DO NO SUCH THING . exactly sister . just keep marching onwards
in the glorious LORD . the serpent , the world and even most of christendom now use the MIXTURE . quite common indeed it is .

 

[amigo de christo]

No, we are not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers, including unbelieving Jews/Israel. That is ecumenicalism, a deception. God called a remnant out FROM Israel, just as He called Abraham out from among the Gentiles. As it was prophesied, only a remnant of Israel would be saved. We need to distinguish between the "Israel of God" and "Israel after the flesh". We don't count earthly Jerusalem/Zion to be our mother, but heavenly Jerusalem/Zion is. Earthly Jerusalem sadly is called Babylon, Sodom and Egypt in scripture, spiritually. Doesn't mean earthly Jerusalem/Israel is entirely evil, but is a mixture of good and evil, in varying degrees, like anything to do with this fallen world (including our western politics).

The church's only mandate is the gospel, to "go and make disciples", not to be entangled with the geo-political affairs of this world, but let the Lord judge and deal with those things, as He IS doing and only He is qualified to do so. We may discern specific events/actions that are visible, but are not privy to everything that goes on out of sight, wheeling and dealing, stealing, murders, corruption etc. Not to mention biased news and biased histories. There is a lot that goes on in secret in this world and only God knows all the truth about any issue. People, nations and governments of this world act in their own self interests and according to whatever they can get away with, that is just the nature of the fallen world - how can we pick a side with those things when in truth there are none righteous, no not one. When the angel in the OT was asked whose side he was on, theirs or ours, the angel essentially replied "Neither. But in the name of the LORD do I come." I believe we should endeavour to be of the same mind as that angel. Our battle is spiritual and our weapons are not carnal either. We are in the world but not of it - friendship with the world is enmity with God - come out from among them and be ye SEPARATE, says the Lord, not be joined/united with them.

inclusivism and its ways have hit the hearts of many now sister . as they are coaxed into being unequally yoked together .
IT WILL DESTROY THEM ALL IN THE END . GOD said not to do such a thing , but they DO it anway . PREPARE to fall
for those who do this , cause they wont make it lest they DO COME OUT and stop partaking of that table of co exist
of light and dark , of christ and belial , of earthen govts and heavenly . HEART CANT BE IN BOTH PLACES .
TIME to armour up and keep onwards in the LORD sister , CAUSE ITS ABOUT TO GO VIRAL WORSE and fast .

 

[amigo de christo]

Huh? Where do you get the idea that supporting Christ's people is adverse to Christ?


See OP. We are one with Israel in that we are part of civilization. Their enemies, are enemies of civilization itself.

i wouldnt follow john hagee to burger king . HIS BOOK is an abomination . HE LIED about what JESUS TOLD the jews
HE LIED . he did make a lot of money doing it though . NOT that it will save him . IT WONT .
we should have been as the early church was . I dont seem to remember JESUS nor paul
boasting about the flesh one was born in EITHER . DIDNT SEEM TO MATTER TO THEM . WHAT DID MATTER
was THAT YE MUST BE BORN Again . JUST SAYING .

 

[Wrangler]

No, we are not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers

LOL. The equal yoking is civilization not theology.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Huh? Where do you get the idea that supporting Christ's people is adverse to Christ?


See OP. We are one with Israel in that we are part of civilization. Their enemies, are enemies of civilization itself.

Are they Israel ? that's the point that you clearly do not fathom at all in fact.
You are a Anti-Christ in fact ! for you do not know Christ Jesus in fact !
The Jews are Anti-Christ in fact ! and they are not Israel in fact !
When Jesus came 2000 years ago only a Handful of Jews became Christians, for they were not the ones who were mislead in fact but were worthy of Israel in fact and that's why they knew that Jesus was the Christ in fact !

If one rejects that Jesus is not the Christ that one is an anathema in fact = Lost a fool a total moron a blight on the world in fact, Anti-Christ, one who is of this world, that Jesus pointed out clearly was under delusions and deceptions in fact ! for they are not of Christ Jesus but are in fact of their Father who was a liar and a murderer from the beginning in fact !

Even Holy Moses pointed such as them out ! for they were not worth of God in fact !

One goose, says hi i am looking for God ? another says, how do you find God ? Answer is It's in Christ Jesus ! for no one comes to the Father but through his only begotten Son !
Now what you are claiming is that you would say to such a Goose, look to the Jews ! for they are Gods people ?

So ok prove to me who is Gods people bro ? The Jews ? well if you know even the OT points out that not all of such is worthy of even the OT days and were kicked out ! Gods people the Jews ? kicked out ! by who, the Jews themselves in fact ! so not all Jews are worthy in fact right their in fact ?
But you are idolising the so called Jews ? you can not fathom any depth on the subject, for you claim all Jews are to be idolised in fact ! and you have turned your back on Christ Jesus in fact ! to idolise a so called Jew ? can they prove that they are worthy of Holy Moses for a start ! for if such a one could prove worthy of Holy Moses, well they have hope in fact, for they have that ability to come to Christ Jesus in fact ! but if they are of the Talmud whore they are a Anti-Christ in fact, for such is totally against Jesus in fact and not to mention True Judaism, in fact, for that Talmud is a work of Man and not of God at all in fact !

One who is truly worthy of Holy Moses is on the right path to Christ Jesus in fact. outside of that is hopeless futile for they are Lost !

 

[Lizbeth]

LOL. The equal yoking is civilization not theology.

"Civilization" is a mixture of good and evil. Even the establishment of the United States, arguably the most "Christian" and blessed nation on earth, was made at the expense of the indigenous people and on the backs of African slave labour........see the mixture there? Our lives on this earth are so short anyhow.....we shouldn't be too invested in things to do with this earthly life. Our citizenship is not here but in heaven, and in spite of appearances to the contrary at times, God is on His throne and sovereign over what happens on this earth.

For example, what happened in Israel on Oct 7 was horrendous and appalling...........and yet, the music festival that was taking place in Israel near the Gaza border at the time was pure abomination and overt idolatry. Don't get me wrong, it is not me who would wish that judgment on anybody, but it is hard not to correlate the two things and think that possibly the attack by Hamas may have been allowed by God for a reason. He judges sin, and Israel is not exempt from being chastised for her sins still. Again, dont' get me wrong, I'm not saying we should be indifferent to the suffering of the Jewish people or anyone.

 

[Wrangler]

Are they Israel ? that's the point that you clearly do not fathom at all in fact.

Yes, they are Israel, in fact.

 

[Wrangler]

"Civilization" is a mixture of good and evil.

True but it must be conceded that it is better than the alternative on Earth of barberism, lawlessness and the denial of individual liberty.

 

[Wrangler]

Our citizenship is not here but in heaven

Back to reality, political reality. My passport does not say that I am a citizen of heaven.

 

[Wrangler]

i wouldnt follow john hagee to burger king . HIS BOOK is an abomination . HE LIED about what JESUS TOLD the jews

How so?

 

[Lizbeth]

True but it must be conceded that it is better than the alternative on Earth of barberism, lawlessness and the denial of individual liberty.

It's precisely the "good" part of "good and evil" that is so deceptive brother.

Where does blessing come from and how is it obtained? And curses? We need to trust (and even observe) that God IS on His throne ruling. And our weapons are not carnal. Seeing a nation (whether ours or another) wandering far away from the Lord and righteousness and suffering under the resulting judgments/curses should cause the church to double down on evangelism, rather than doubling down on politics and law making. Laws are a way of forcing people to be good. AKA oppression...where is the liberty in that?. Is that our mandate as the church to force people to behave with the pointy end of a sword, or are we to be vessels of the Lord that He may change hearts on the inside which results in righteousness? Haven't we turned our swords into ploughshares?

What we're seeing these days is a church that has left off evangelism, the gospel being the better solution and weapon against the evils of this world, in order to pursue carnal political solutions. Thought we received a better and higher covenant than the Law and it is that better and higher covenant that we are to occupy ourselves with.

Movements such as NAR and Kingdom Now have no idea how much they align with the unbelieving Jewish Noahide movement. They are all trying to 'change the world' using carnal means, forgetting that this temporal world is appointed to wrath. This world is not going to get better, only worse, until transgression comes to the full and then it gets fully judged. The kingdom of God comes NOT with careful observation but is only WITHIN those who have received the Messiah/Christ.

It's this worsening of things that causes our love to grow cold instead of continuing to TRUST GOD through it all. Preaching to myself brother, I'm as dismayed as anyone at the worsening state of things and often get more upset than I should with misguided politicians. More than ever we need to have our eyes ABOVE, fixed on JESUS, trusting that He is ruling and reigning still in the midst of this horror show. When we are trusting in Him He is also navigating us safely through it all and using it for our good. Remember the Israelites (ensample of the church) were kept safe in Goshen while the Egyptians were suffering under the curses that were sent from GOD'S OWN HAND!

 

[Lizbeth]

Back to reality, political reality. My passport does not say that I am a citizen of heaven.

There is a problem if we believe what governments say more than we believe God.

Heb 11:13

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

1Pe 2:11

Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

 

[Wrangler]

We need to trust (and even observe) that God IS on His throne ruling.

Not really relevant to thread topic.

 

[Wrangler]

There is a problem if we believe what governments say more than we believe God.

Oy vey! For some reason, you are determined to detour this thread. No one said they believe more in government than God. No one.

In fact, I am inclined to believe the truth is the opposite of whatever the government says.

 

[Wrangler]

What we're seeing these days is a church that has left off evangelism, the gospel being the better solution and weapon against the evils of this world, in order to pursue carnal political solutions.

Back to reality, political reality. It (civilization) must be conceded that it is better than the alternative on Earth of barberism, lawlessness and the denial of individual liberty.

Lizbeth, you seem under the spell of False Alternative. Evangelists are not abandoning the Gospel for political solutions. They are living out the Gospels through political solutions.

Do you concede that civilization is better than the alternative on Earth of barberism, lawlessness and the denial of individual liberty?

 

[Jericho]

It's precisely the "good" part of "good and evil" that is so deceptive brother.

Where does blessing come from and how is it obtained? And curses? We need to trust (and even observe) that God IS on His throne ruling. And our weapons are not carnal. Seeing a nation (whether ours or another) wandering far away from the Lord and righteousness and suffering under the resulting judgments/curses should cause the church to double down on evangelism, rather than doubling down on politics and law making. Laws are a way of forcing people to be good. AKA oppression...where is the liberty in that?. Is that our mandate as the church to force people to behave with the pointy end of a sword, or are we to be vessels of the Lord that He may change hearts on the inside which results in righteousness? Haven't we turned our swords into ploughshares?

What we're seeing these days is a church that has left off evangelism, the gospel being the better solution and weapon against the evils of this world, in order to pursue carnal political solutions. Thought we received a better and higher covenant than the Law and it is that better and higher covenant that we are to occupy ourselves with.

Movements such as NAR and Kingdom Now have no idea how much they align with the unbelieving Jewish Noahide movement. They are all trying to 'change the world' using carnal means, forgetting that this temporal world is appointed to wrath. This world is not going to get better, only worse, until transgression comes to the full and then it gets fully judged. The kingdom of God comes NOT with careful observation but is only WITHIN those who have received the Messiah/Christ.

It's this worsening of things that causes our love to grow cold instead of continuing to TRUST GOD through it all. Preaching to myself brother, I'm as dismayed as anyone at the worsening state of things and often get more upset than I should with misguided politicians. More than ever we need to have our eyes ABOVE, fixed on JESUS, trusting that He is ruling and reigning still in the midst of this horror show. When we are trusting in Him He is also navigating us safely through it all and using it for our good. Remember the Israelites (ensample of the church) were kept safe in Goshen while the Egyptians were suffering under the curses that were sent from GOD'S OWN HAND!

I have a different perspective. One of the reasons things have gotten so bad is that Christians have ceded ground to the enemy. We no longer fight for the things we believe in but have become passive spectators. We expect God to take care of it all while we do nothing. God works through people to accomplish His will, but only if we are receptive to it. God gave the Isrealites the Promised Land, but they still had to fight for it. We can't expect God to do everything.

We are supposed to be the salt and light of this world. Salt is a perservative; it keeps things from going bad. We have the ability to push back the evil, but only if we take necessary actions. Faith without works is dead. Our enemies have no compunction about fighting for the things they believe in, and neither should we. Even the angels war in the heavens, but for some reason, we are supposed to remain complacent.

This world as we know it might be temporal, but the earth will never end. And we are coming back to rule and reign with Christ. So, what happens in this world does matter. What we allow will affect us while we are living here and our children and our children's children when we are gone. It's up to us what kind of world we leave them with.

 

[amadeus]

Back to reality, political reality. My passport does not say that I am a citizen of heaven.

Ah yes, but my US passport expired several years ago. I have not renewed it to confirm my US citizenship but my heavenly citizenship I strive to renew daily. Which citizenship is the Reality which never ends?

Joh 11:25	Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26	And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

[Wrangler]

Which citizenship is the Reality which never ends?

Not really relevant to the OP, is it?

 

[amadeus]

Not really relevant to the OP, is it?

To be honest, I responded only to your post that I quoted without having read the OP. I apologize for that. I have now read your OP, but still it omits a literal meaning of the word, "ZIon". It speaks rather of more recent people who have occupied the land in the Middle East called Palestine by some and now named Israel.

Consider what Strong's says about the word, Zion:

Zion = "parched place" another name for Jerusalem especially in the prophetic books

A "parched place" definitely in need of water. How "Living Water"?

Joh 4:10

Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Could we who have been gentiles or "parched places" also be partakers of the "Living Water"?

 

[amigo de christo]

To be honest, I responded only to your post that I quoted without having read the OP. I apologize for that. I have now read your OP, but still it omits a literal meaning of the word, "ZIon". It speaks rather of more recent people who have occupied the land in the Middle East called Palestine by some and now named Israel.

Consider what Strong's says about the word, Zion:

Zion = "parched place" another name for Jerusalem especially in the prophetic books

A "parched place" definitely in need of water. How "Living Water"?

Joh 4:10

Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Could we who have been gentiles or "parched places" also be partakers of the "Living Water"?

I think many miss the dire importance of just who and what IS THE ZION OF GOD .
but lets allow the author of hebrews to remind us of something .
BUT YE have come unto MOUNT ZION , THE HEAVENLY JERUSALEM . OH THERE IS A TRUE SPIRITUAL ZION ALL RIGHT
and if folks aint a partaker of that , MAN it dont matter where one lived or lives . GOD DID something amazing
THROUGH JESUS CHRIST . Something the natural was but a shadow of , a pattern of
TILL THE TRUE WAS TO BE ESTABLISHED . My advice will remain and does remain the same
THE FLESH PROFITS A MAN NOTHING , dont matter if one was born a jew or a gentile
what matter is ARE YE BORN AGAIN . YES BELIEF IN JESUS DOES MATTER . OH IT DOES .