Why cruel design in the animal kingdom?

[MA2444]

Alas, you're still batting .000. I owned all my guns for reasons unrelated to hunting. I did in fact sell every last one them and have not owned a gun for decades. My father-in-law who owned the ranch was an avid hunter and I accompanied him and his friends in the woods a number of times on their deer and elk hunts, which were equally repulsive spectacles. There is something going on in the head of someone who deems hunting a "sport" that, thank God, is not going on inside my head. I repeat: I regard hunters as subhuman, a level below abortionists.

I have a "favorite" story about the hunting mentality. My father-in-law and I owned German Shorthair hounds from the same litter. They waded into a porcupine and came home with a faceful of quills. I loaded mine into the car and drove 90 miles to the vet for the quills to be removed. My father-in-law took a shotgun and blew his away. Just the cycle of life, doncha know.

Ok, I am unable to prove that didnt sell all your guns. But that doesnt mean that I believe you!

I wasnt up there sport hunting. I was after food! So you FIL kiled his own dog. Wow. But what does that have to do with me? It's not my fault that you guys went hunting with Billy Bob and they were weirdos. Why are trying to attach bad things that others have done onto me? I had a good teacher. Contray to your belief...there really is ethical hunters in the world.

 

[MA2444]

Are you folks really as clueless as these responses suggest? It's almost jaw-dropping. @Adrift posed a simple question about the seemingly unnecessary cruelty in the animal kingdom ("Nature red in tooth and claw," as Tennyson wrote) and you goofs come out with both barrels blazing in a wacky defense of human hunting. Methinks thou doth protest too much, perhaps?

Oh I understand that you want me to shut up about it, lol.

If he wasnt judging God, then why would he say, why would "God" design it this way? That is ascribing it to God. SO why is that?

 

[Wrangler]

agree, you must be young.

Ditto.

Yea, I'm only 75.

Months?

 

[O'Darby]

Well the thing is, adrift did sound like He was judging God. I read it that way too. Adrifts poor logic fails to take into account the fall of man and the far reaching damage that sin brought to the world. And all of a sudden, why would God do that? C'mon. Why does he insist that it is somehow Gods fault?

His entire premise is faulty.

No, it simply is not. Serious Christian theologians and scholars recognize @Adrift's concern is a legitimate one. Here is a fairly nuanced discussion of the issue by the folks at BioLogos, who do not regard the question as "judging God" and do not adopt your simplistic explanation: Is Animal Suffering Part of God’s Good Creation? - BioLogos.

To turn the tables a bit, I might suggest that the histrionic, off-topic responses on the part of you and others have more to do with your comical self-image as He Man Hunters than anything @Adrift or I have actually said.

 

[Wrangler]

Oh I understand that you want me to shut up about it, lol.

If he wasnt judging God, then why would he say, why would "God" design it this way? That is ascribing it to God. SO why is that?

The degree of this woke kid dodging responsibility is something to behold. Then he claims to be 75. I presume this is months of life experience.

 

[O'Darby]

Ditto.

Months?

Ad hominem much, Mr. Logic?

As I often say on these forums, you're making some excellent points - they just aren't the points you think you're making.

 

[O'Darby]

The degree of this woke kid dodging responsibility is something to behold. Then he claims to be 75. I presume this is months of life experience.

Ad hominem much, Mr. Logic - or did I already say that?

 

[MA2444]

Are you folks really as clueless as these responses suggest? It's almost jaw-dropping. @Adrift posed a simple question about the seemingly unnecessary cruelty in the animal kingdom ("Nature red in tooth and claw," as Tennyson wrote) and you goofs come out with both barrels blazing in a wacky defense of human hunting. Methinks thou doth protest too much, perhaps?

That's right. You guys are trying to paint all hunters as vile people with no heart, and I know better. I cant help it or excuse it the stories you tell about billy bob. That's HIM, no me.

I do not protest too much. You guys have laid to waste your God and your Brothers & Sisters with your accusations to God and to other people. I dunno what to say to you? Find a better hunting crowd?

 

[MA2444]

Ad hominem much, Mr. Logic - or did I already say that?

Arent you the same guy who was speaking up for the Transgenders in another thread? Like all they want is simple acceptance and not total rejection fron Christians? You're using the same flawed logic in that thread as you do here on another subject. So you can't honorably reject all hunters because of the thigs that you saw two people doing or that confirms your lack of logic in that thread. Bad move brother.

 

[O'Darby]

That's right. You guys are trying to paint all hunters as vile people with no heart, and I know better. I cant help it or excuse it the stories you tell about billy bob. That's HIM, no me.

I do not protest too much. You guys have laid to waste your God and your Brothers & Sisters with your accusations to God and to other people. I dunno what to say to you? Find a better hunting crowd?

Now look:

You introduced the off-topic topic of hunting. It has precisely nothing to do with the original post. You suggested, rather illogically, that the positions of @Adrift and myself must stem from a lack of familiarity with guns and hunting. Although this was completely off-topic, I set your straight insofar as I am concerned.

You and Mr. Logic (NOT) have tried to steer the thread to whether @Adrift eats meat, is "woke" or aligned with the dreaded "Left" (which I most certainly am not), and why Adrift is on this forum at all. Anything, it seems, to avoid the actual topic of the thread.

The fact is, an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God designed a universe in which a single sin by the first human couple would result in the fall not just of them but of the entire creation, including the animal kingdom. To wonder why He did this is entirely legitimate and is neither "judging God" or in any way irreligious.

"Laid to waste" our God and our Brothers and Sisters? You are neither thinking clearly nor making sense.

Done.

 

[MA2444]

Ad hominem much, Mr. Logic - or did I already say that?

But you holding hunters to be less than abortionists is what? You're blowing us a kiss?

So the only reason that you should play the victim card is, when you have not attacked others with your ad hominens. But you did. When people start playing the victim card it usually means that we are asking good questions and you dont know what to say to continue your position.

 

[O'Darby]

Arent you the same guy who was speaking up for the Transgenders in another thread?

No. You have me confused with someone else.

Here is one of my "pro-transgender" posts:

What a weird slippery slope. How am I supposed to keep abreast of what those in the ever-changing and ever-expanding LGBTQ++++ (or whatever it's called these days) community want to be called today or tomorrow? Considering that transgenderism and all its variants is largely an absurd fad, with self-identies fluctuating on a weekly if not daily basis, how can failing to abide by someone's current whims possibly be a basis for legal liability?​

​

This sort of thing opens the door to the same sort of abuse we see when a gay couple (is "gay" still an OK word in the LGBTQ community?), with a reporter in tow, targets a Christian bakery even though there are five other bakeries in the vicinity, and the community wrings its hands over the ghastly discrimination the loving couple suffered at the hands of the Christian beast who wouldn't make them a special cake. Only now it will be "transgender" (for today anyway) kids, possibly with reporters in tow, seeking revenge against parents for reasons really having nothing to with transgenderism. I-N-S-A-N-I-T-Y.​

​

Pronoun abuse

Indiana parents warn nation after child is removed from home for improper pronoun usage: ‘Can happen anywhere’

www.christianityboard.com

​

Still batting .000.

Keep trying. You're sure to luck into a bloop single to right field sooner or later.

Really done.

 

[MA2444]

Now look:

You introduced the off-topic topic of hunting. It has precisely nothing to do with the original post. You suggested, rather illogically, that the positions of @Adrift and myself must stem from a lack of familiarity with guns and hunting. Although this was completely off-topic, I set your straight insofar as I am concerned.

You and Mr. Logic (NOT) have tried to steer the thread to whether @Adrift eats meat, is "woke" or aligned with the dreaded "Left" (which I most certainly am not), and why Adrift is on this forum at all. Anything, it seems, to avoid the actual topic of the thread.

The fact is, an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God designed a universe in which a single sin by the first human couple would result in the fall not just of them but of the entire creation, including the animal kingdom. To wonder why He did this is entirely legitimate and is neither "judging God" or in any way irreligious.

"Laid to waste" our God and our Brothers and Sisters? You are neither thinking clearly nor making sense.

Done.

I'm sorry I ask too good of questions to you. But it's not my problem if you are ignorant of the subject. Suffering in the animal kingdom....but that cant possible have any meaning to hunters worldwide! I'm sorry if you can not comprehend what ethical hunters are. But they do exist, and this is something that I know about, for I have lived it.

Sorry you had bad hunting experience, but that is not justification for attacking people who disagree with your limited knowledge. Can you admit that all hunters are not like your hunting buddies?
Of course you cant because then your but all trans people are not bad like some may be...falls apart.

But I dont wanna go too far off topic (lol) so can you answer me that one question?

All hunters are not the same. Some are bad and very unethical! But not all of us.

 

[MA2444]

No. You have me confused with someone else.

Here is one of my "pro-transgender" posts:

What a weird slippery slope. How am I supposed to keep abreast of what those in the ever-changing and ever-expanding LGBTQ++++ (or whatever it's called these days) community want to be called today or tomorrow? Considering that transgenderism and all its variants is largely an absurd fad, with self-identies fluctuating on a weekly if not daily basis, how can failing to abide by someone's current whims possibly be a basis for legal liability?​

​

This sort of thing opens the door to the same sort of abuse we see when a gay couple (is "gay" still an OK word in the LGBTQ community?), with a reporter in tow, targets a Christian bakery even though there are five other bakeries in the vicinity, and the community wrings its hands over the ghastly discrimination the loving couple suffered at the hands of the Christian beast who wouldn't make them a special cake. Only now it will be "transgender" (for today anyway) kids, possibly with reporters in tow, seeking revenge against parents for reasons really having nothing to with transgenderism. I-N-S-A-N-I-T-Y.​

​

Pronoun abuse

Indiana parents warn nation after child is removed from home for improper pronoun usage: ‘Can happen anywhere’

www.christianityboard.com

​

Still batting .000.

Keep trying. You're sure to luck into a bloop single to right field sooner or later.

Really done.

Promise?

 

[MA2444]

Here is one of my "pro-transgender" posts:

What a weird slippery slope. How am I supposed to keep abreast of what those in the ever-changing and ever-expanding LGBTQ++++ (or whatever it's called these days) community want to be called today or tomorrow? Considering that transgenderism and all its variants is largely an absurd fad, with self-identies fluctuating on a weekly if not daily basis, how can failing to abide by someone's current whims possibly be a basis for legal liability?This sort of thing opens the door to the same sort of abuse we see when a gay couple (is "gay" still an OK word in the LGBTQ community?), with a reporter in tow, targets a Christian bakery even though there are five other bakeries in the vicinity, and the community wrings its hands over the ghastly discrimination the loving couple suffered at the hands of the Christian beast who wouldn't make them a special cake. Only now it will be "transgender" (for today anyway) kids, possibly with reporters in tow, seeking revenge against parents for reasons really having nothing to with transgenderism. I-N-S-A-N-I-T-Y.

Maybe so, sooory about that.

And it is insanity, aka Mental Illness.

 

[MA2444]

The degree of this woke kid dodging responsibility is something to behold. Then he claims to be 75. I presume this is months of life experience.

He night have grew up on the ther side of the tracks where they dont teach those things. Responsibility is a compound word. Response...and, Able. So we re capable of responding rightly and making good choices.

But they choose not to and giving them scriptures about it doesnt help because apparently, they dont read the Bible.

Maybe he is 75? But from Gods perspective, that makes him less than two hours old so your still right, lol.
A day is a thousand years to the Lord. That works out to 41 years is equal to one of Gods hours.

 

[O'Darby]

ut I dont wanna go too far off topic (lol) so can you answer me that one question?

All hunters are not the same. Some are bad and very unethical! But not all of us.

Since this is clearly an emotional, near-religious issue for you, I will break my vow: Certainly, all hunters are not the same. Some approach it as a genuine sport, view it as a conservation activity and attempt to conduct themselves in an ethical manner. I cannot relate to this mindset AT ALL. At its very best, it is completely repulsive to me. That is not an ad hominem attack. It is simply a statement of my opinion. To equate hunters with abortionists was overly harsh and unnecessary, but it's my feeling.

Promise?

YES.

 

[Adrift]

Now look:

You introduced the off-topic topic of hunting. It has precisely nothing to do with the original post. You suggested, rather illogically, that the positions of @Adrift and myself must stem from a lack of familiarity with guns and hunting. Although this was completely off-topic, I set your straight insofar as I am concerned.

You and Mr. Logic (NOT) have tried to steer the thread to whether @Adrift eats meat, is "woke" or aligned with the dreaded "Left" (which I most certainly am not), and why Adrift is on this forum at all. Anything, it seems, to avoid the actual topic of the thread.

The fact is, an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God designed a universe in which a single sin by the first human couple would result in the fall not just of them but of the entire creation, including the animal kingdom. To wonder why He did this is entirely legitimate and is neither "judging God" or in any way irreligious.

"Laid to waste" our God and our Brothers and Sisters? You are neither thinking clearly nor making sense.

Done.

You have apparently suffered the trauma of abuse, early social rejection, or social isolation resulting in your damaged capacity to engage in interdependence with a sense of safety and wholeness. Disconnected and broken, you have slipped into self-centeredness. This explains how, unknowingly, you have become a practicing member of the liberal cancel culture. The desire to have other people's ideas or expressions discredited because they don't fit into your myopic world view is a prime indicator of your bipolarity. I sincerely pray that you seek help and have a full recovery. Also, FYI, I am very much 75 and have a gun collection that would make you drool.

 

[O'Darby]

You have apparently suffered the trauma of abuse, early social rejection, or social isolation resulting in your damaged capacity to engage in interdependence with a sense of safety and wholeness. Disconnected and broken, you have slipped into self-centeredness. This explains how, unknowingly, you have become a practicing member of the liberal cancel culture. The desire to have other people's ideas or expressions discredited because they don't fit into your myopic world view is a prime indicator of your bipolarity. I sincerely pray that you seek help and have a full recovery. Also, FYI, I am very much 75 and have a gun collection that would make you drool.

Are you sure you're responding to me? A practicing member of the liberal cancel culture?

I AM sort of disconnected, self-centered, broken, myopic and bipolar, but a practicing member of the cancel culture seems a bit much!

 

[MA2444]

You have apparently suffered the trauma of abuse, early social rejection, or social isolation resulting in your damaged capacity to engage in interdependence with a sense of safety and wholeness. Disconnected and broken, you have slipped into self-centeredness. This explains how, unknowingly, you have become a practicing member of the liberal cancel culture. The desire to have other people's ideas or expressions discredited because they don't fit into your myopic world view is a prime indicator of your bipolarity. I sincerely pray that you seek help and have a full recovery. Also, FYI, I am very much 75 and have a gun collection that would make you drool.

But he was sticking up for you! That can only mean one thing. You can think for yourself, which is loads better than the liberal types, lol. There may be hope for you yet! If you could just grasp that sin had lasting effects upon the entire world. You can't really say well God has a poor design without considering the effects of sin and simply blaming God for it, that's sort of nutty. You are a christian, dont you believe the Bible?