Why cruel design in the animal kingdom?

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MA2444

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Are you sure you're responding to me? A practicing member of the liberal cancel culture?

I AM sort of disconnected, self-centered, broken, myopic and bipolar, but a practicing member of the cancel culture seems a bit much! :)

I thought the same thing when you started accusing me of being a liberal! He makes a good point!

I know you didnt sell them all. Everyone who has ever collected has a favorite. You dont sell off your reloding gear because of some half wit hunters. I bet you kept 44 Mag! That's ok. It's good to have an ace in the hole.

I didnt sell my Rockchucker! I bought a Dillon 550B too :)
I was never into 357's or 38's or anything like that. If I want a 357 then I can just load light loads, lol.
 

MA2444

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Are you sure you're responding to me? A practicing member of the liberal cancel culture?

I AM sort of disconnected, self-centered, broken, myopic and bipolar, but a practicing member of the cancel culture seems a bit much! :)

I wouldnt admit it either, lol. Bipolar though? Ah! Thats why sometimes you approach good sense and sometimes you run from it?
 

MA2444

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, I am very much 75 and have a gun collection that would make you drool.

I bet we would get along a lot better in person. I'd like see your collection. I bet it puts mine to shame!

Texas. If I had seen that sooner, I may have known better!
 
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Wick Stick

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I think she (he) means terrifying for the animal victims of the carnage, not for her. The fact that the concept of sin doesn't apply to the animal kingdom is precisely the point. Why would the fall of mankind cause the animal kingdom to be completely transformed in such a hideous direction? Like @Adrift, I find it difficult to square this with an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God.

Did the fall cause similar disruption in the plant kingdom? Where is the evidence of THAT? Did it cause the laws of gravity and thermodynamics to go haywire? I realize the fall is the only available "Christian" option, but it strikes me as very much of a "Just So" tale. More honest, I think, is to say yes, it's hideous, it's challenging to belief, and we have no good answer - but we can only trust.
It's not the only option.

I believe that the initial creation of matter was... messy. Genesis 1:2 says "formless and void." Then God spends time forming that mess into something "good."

God rests for a Sabbath, and somehow everyone assumes that Sabbath-rest goes on forever? Why would there not be more weeks? Jewish literature is full of "weeks" of generations that come sequentially after Genesis 1 creation.

I guess I'm being a bit verbose in saying... God is still working on the creation. I know He's still working on me. That seems to be the nature of the Father - to form us gradually until we come to a measure of maturity.
 
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Adrift

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Are you sure you're responding to me? A practicing member of the liberal cancel culture?

I AM sort of disconnected, self-centered, broken, myopic and bipolar, but a practicing member of the cancel culture seems a bit much! :)
NO! It was meant for MA2444. Sorry, pulled the wrong comment. Definirely not you.
 
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Wrangler

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But you holding hunters to be less than abortionists is what? You're blowing us a kiss?
What is this scorched earth policy of these supposed Jesus followers? God is cruel and so are hunters, even if they are Christian. What kind of edifying motive do we have here?
 
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Pearl

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Actually, if I did it wouldn't change the basis of my concern. If I eat meat it is because I am just another dot in the chain of events that I didn't design.
Was that a yes or no? Your reply was unclear.
 
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St. SteVen

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Did the fall cause similar disruption in the plant kingdom? Where is the evidence of THAT?
Were there thorns and thistles prior to the Fall?
Vegetable challenges that cause sweat on the brow?
Frustration and weather damage? Crop losses? Drought? Flood?
A far cry from life in the Garden, (orchard)

Or even the gnarled and tortured look of trees that might be more symmetrical?
C.S. Lewis made this observation in The Great Divorce.

/
 
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St. SteVen

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It would be a much less horrifying end of life for most animals if other animals didn't want to eat them. They could die of old age or other maladies. If all animals were created to eat vegetables and fruit (and other created high protein sources) they wouldn't need to scream in agony while the tiger (or whatever) is chomping on their throats. One of my most hauting memories is being in thick woods when I watched a hawk attack and kill a baby rabbit. I can't unhear the screetches from the rabbit as it fought for it's life. The world life pattern design is cruel. I wonder why God designed this way when there were less terrifying options?
Welcome to the forum.
Great topic, thanks!

/
 
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MA2444

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I AM sort of disconnected, self-centered, broken, myopic and bipolar, but a practicing member of the cancel culture seems a bit much! :)

Have you ever even considered that being sort of disconnected and self centered and Bipolar AND myopic...that those may affect your thought processes?

I knew a bipolar guy once. His wife left him because he was more about God than she was. Oh a terrible day for the man, but she didnt take the house so maybe it's not all bad?
Next morning he looked out the window and seen that the entire area was flooded as far as he could see. He went to the top of the stairs ad saw household items floating all throughout the house. Chagrined he went back to his room and thugh what am I to do? So he went out onto the roof to look around where he assured himself in his heart, that God would save him. So he sat down to wait on the Lord. Suddenly he saw a boat come putting up the street. They called to hi and said, we'll get you out of there, climb aboard! The man said no, the Lord will save me...so they left.

Several hours later, and no God yet. so he prayed to God and asked for help. Please Lord, save me! Just as he was saying Amen he heard a helicopter which flew over his house and dropped a line to him, Come Aboard! The man said, No. God will save me! and the chopper flew away. He prayed soeme more and a few hours later, another boat came along and offered to save him from the roof amd floodwaters/ But he was having none of that. What kind faith would that be, to accept a ride from man when God himself was coming to save him?! So he said no and would not get into the boat. The sun set and he wouldnt go back n the house. He was waiting on God! During the night he fell asleep and rolled off of the roof and was swept away in the flood waters. The man perished. WHen he got to Heaven, he asked the Lord, why wouldn't you save me? Why did you let me perish? The Lord said, WHAT? I sent two boats and a chopper to save you and you wouldnt get in the boat! You did not have to perish. The man had trouble making decisions. He just didnt know it and failed to recognize when God was moving and we He hasnt.

In fact, I remember now. My Niece is bipolar also. When I asked to maybe land there when I moved back to ohio from Colorado. I didnt ask her. I asked my brother. He then told me that he actually lives with his daughter and her husband so he'll have to ask her. (will he pitch in?) Was here question. Of course he told her. I have always worked and pulled my weight no matter where I was. So it was all set, and I did move here and landed there until I could get on my feet and get local bearings. Now my niece loved that idea and I did pull my weight. I handed her a lot of cash. She was on top of the world. She had a husband who worked, her dad worked, and I was already pitching in. Then suddenly, she quit her job at the courthouse. She went to school and got a Masters degree in something minor, Criminal Justice? I forget. But she figured she dont need to work with all these men around. And she was as sweet as pie...at first. Then she got so confident in her position, that she began to not take her bipolar medicine. Who needs it, right? And boy oh boy did she turn vicious. It was like night and day. I gave her money to help with my share and even cooked meals and nice desserts for her kids! (She said, I dont cook! Her idea of dinner for the 4 kids was to buy two giant pizzas for them) She was getting progressively worse and her husband figured out that she had stopped her medication and he told her is that why you quit your job? ...and she freaked out on him and literally kicked him out.

I told her that was dumb, she needs her husband and her job! So she got mad at me and kicked me out! She wanted to increase my contributuons to cover what her husband usually paid in...Fat chance! Pulling my weight doesnt mean pulling her Husbands weight too!
My Brother said no, you're not kicking (me) out for I have done nothing but what I said I would do. So she then proceeded to kick my and her dad out of her house! Her own Dad! I could understnd her being mad at me, (was that a woman thing or a bipolar thing?) I did not want to take on the role of her Husbands and kids weight that her husband should do for her. So out we went. Within 3 days she had kicked her husband out and then, all other adult males two days later? She used to be sweet as pie and now acted like the devil himself.

Me and my brother did move out. We were homless for two full months. living in a Walmart parking lot. My brother still had his job, so she would make regular trips to walmart (on Dadas payday) to guilt him into helping her. A sad tale indeed. She quit her job making good money because that's what men are for! That's why we were homeless for 2 whole months! My money was dwindling fast and I needed to go to work. I found a good jb on my first try. I told my brother he would have to help us with money to get us a place and get off the street. With all that, she still wouldnt even let us come by to shower or do laundry once a week! My brothers helper let us shower and do laundry at his house, but could not let us move in because his place was small already. So with my fiest paycheck, I started looking for a place to rent. The very first place that I went to that had an acceptable house to rent accepted us. Next payday would let me & my brother both pitch in for that, first & last & security deposit. And one more week, and we were not homeless any more!

This infuriated my niece! She kicked us out and wouldnt help us, but she was going for her Dad's money all the time too. She'd try on me and I said no I cant support you, where's your husband, the childrens Father? (well he cant afford to help anymore, he had to have a place to live too. And I said no, why should I help you when you are so nasty to your family? Get your prioroties in order girl! She hates me for that, and she did lose her place and she moved in (with all 4 kids!) to her dealers house (which was the dealers mothers house. I hear tell that, that only lasted one week and then the mom kicked them all out, and rightly so I think. I dont know where thy are now, I live in a close small city and dont get over to my brothers very often anymore.

Now the point of all this, is...Do you think it is possible that thse things which trouble you add interferance to your decision making processes? Do you take your bipolar meds consistently? (Of course I may be wrong, I dont know much about being bipolar except that one person, my niece. When she went off her midications she turned from white to black in her behavior, so that's ALL I know about bipolar)

So, Somedays I see you makes reasonable sounding posts. Other days its like you are someone else. I just wondered if you think that it is even possible for it to be conditional to a lack of medication or maybe a stronger dose? I dont even know what myopic means! But it doesnt sound good. Maybe your post content being somewhat different at times may be related to one or more of your conditions?

I may not have everything 100% right, but wherein is a difficulty, is also a cause for it, and effects upon you. Yes? No?
 

MA2444

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NO! It was meant for MA2444. Sorry, pulled the wrong comment. Definirely not you.

When I first started reading your reply, I thought it was for me but seen, you were addressing odarby. Now I understnad. Please forgive me for accusing you of being able to think for yourself, lol.
 

MA2444

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I'm so glad I had put those guys on ignore a long time ago. One vile post after another twisting God's word, which frees us, to be taken to enslve us.

Ohhh! Now I remember. The guy I thought odarby was who supported gays was not him. I remember who that was now. That guy dont like me very much and put me on ignore for asking too good of questions! I see that he is in this thread too! But he wont talk to me, lol! He leaves me alone now and has stopped trying to badmouth me.

I know he peeks at my posts sometimes and then does the ignore thing again, lol. He just wont admit it, lol
 

MA2444

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NO! It was meant for MA2444. Sorry, pulled the wrong comment. Definirely not you.

Well, you proved that you are from Texas, due to my neighborly comments to you...and we've quibbled too much already for you to even say yea or nay. That's Texas! but I'm not sure about that Christian flag that you display
 

Lambano

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It would be a much less horrifying end of life for most animals if other animals didn't want to eat them. They could die of old age or other maladies. If all animals were created to eat vegetables and fruit (and other created high protein sources) they wouldn't need to scream in agony while the tiger (or whatever) is chomping on their throats. One of my most hauting memories is being in thick woods when I watched a hawk attack and kill a baby rabbit. I can't unhear the screetches from the rabbit as it fought for it's life. The world life pattern design is cruel. I wonder why God designed this way when there were less terrifying options?
Yep. That is indeed the nature of the universe as it is now.

For whatever it is that God plans for us to become, it is apparently necessary that we know by experience Good and Evil. This universe appears to be designed with that in mind. However, we do have God's promise that it won't be like this forever:

6 The wolf will live with the lamb,
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling together;
and a little child will lead them.
7 The cow will feed with the bear,
their young will lie down together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8 The infant will play near the cobra’s den,
and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.
9 They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,
for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord
as the waters cover the sea.
(Isaiah 11:6-9)

I have to trust God's promise. I don't see that I have any other choice, because I don't see the universe fixing itself.
 

MA2444

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O'Darby's custom Colt Python might make you change your mind about 357s. :Broadly:

I doubt it. Oh I know very well how nice they are, my friend has a Python in Colorado and let me shoot it. Nice, but not enough nice for the price tag anymore. Besides, Have you ever shot a Freedom Arms mdl 83? I have the fiield grade version (and yes it was more than the Pythons!)

But the mdl 83 has such a nice trigger on it! Sorry if this may offend some, but it was better than the Python in trigger quality. The best trigger of all the factory revolvers that I've ever had the pleasure to shoot, and even better than the few different SA pistols which are top end!

I like talking guns. I can talk guns for hours. I have been known to rib the 357 guys though with my joke. Light loads, but it's true really.

My friend, you would not be disppointed with a mdl 83. Pick one up sometime and you wont regret it. I bought my 83 used and it came with a box of 20 rounds in 454 Casull, missing 6 rounds! So that tells a story right there! I only paid $1400 for mine but they're prolly up to 2500 or perhaps 3K now? So hurry if you want one. You dont really need the conversion model that comes with a 45 Colt cylinder also. WHy? I didnt. I would just shoot the 454's I had first at the range, and the 45 colts after those were gone. SO there was no residue build up in it to prohibit the 45 colts from chambering. But I'll tell you one thing about the 83...it demands only the best ammo. No sloppy rounds, they must be perfect or the tight tolerances of the 83 wont let it chamber! This gun speaks of Rolls Royce in your hands. It's obvious that whoa, this is a finely crafted gun! Every click it makes, every function...works like glass sliding on glass. Very smooth. My 83 is the best gun I have (most expensive and finest)+
 
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O'Darby

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"No humane being, past the thoughtless age of boyhood, will wantonly murder any creature, which holds its life by the same tenure that he does. The hare in its extremity cries like a child." - Henry David Thoreau
 

MA2444

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It would be a much less horrifying end of life for most animals if other animals didn't want to eat them. They could die of old age or other maladies. If all animals were created to eat vegetables and fruit (and other created high protein sources) they wouldn't need to scream in agony while the tiger (or whatever) is chomping on their throats. One of my most hauting memories is being in thick woods when I watched a hawk attack and kill a baby rabbit. I can't unhear the screetches from the rabbit as it fought for it's life. The world life pattern design is cruel. I wonder why God designed this way when there were less terrifying options?

Welcome to the forum.
Great topic, thanks!

/

It is a good topic!

But..."The world life pattern design is cruel." Design speaks of God. " I wonder why God designed this way when there were less terrifying options?"...

That is totally wrong ad I considered that an attack on God himself. He says he didnt attack God, but I think he did. He might not have realized it at the time, or maybe he did?

Does that sound like an attack on God to you?