Why did the blind man see men like trees walking when Jesus touched him?

[grafted branch]

During Jesus ministry, the disciples were blinded in part to Jesus as their suffering messiah since they thought he was their Kingly messiah who would deliver Israel from submission to Rome.

And at this point in time the gospel of salvation had not been revealed and understood by the disciples. So if they were saved or not before Jesus died on the cross, would be a question for God to answer.

However they believed that Jesus was Israel's messiah, the Son of God, and their faith in God is accounted as righteousness. Just as Abraham believed God and was credited with righteousness, even though he had no foreknowledge about Jesus death and resurrection.

In this present day there is a very small remnant of Jews who believe in Jesus, so they are not blind. However the scriptures say one third of partially blinded Israel will be saved when they will call on the name of the Lord at the end of the tribulation. And this is when the blinded Jews will see and understand why Jesus died on the cross for their sins.

Romans 11:25-27 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. (26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (27) "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

Zechariah 13:8-9 In the whole land, declares the LORD, two thirds shall be cut off and perish, and one third shall be left alive. (9) And I will put this third into the fire, and refine them as one refines silver, and test them as gold is tested. They will call upon my name, and I will answer them. I will say, 'They are my people'; and they will say, 'The LORD is my God.'"

Zechariah 12:9-10 And on that day I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. (10) "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.

God will pour out his spirit on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and this is when they will recognize and accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, just as the second touch from the Lord healed the blind man who at first saw men like trees walking.

Isaiah 29:17-19 Is it not yet a very little while until Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field, and the fruitful field shall be regarded as a forest? (18) In that day the deaf shall hear the words of a book, and out of their gloom and darkness the eyes of the blind shall see. (19) The meek shall obtain fresh joy in the LORD, and the poor among mankind shall exult in the Holy One of Israel.

John 9:39 Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind."

If you are defining “blind in part” as someone who recognizes Jesus as the Messiah but doesn’t fully understand how He was a suffering Messiah, then how would you define being fully blind? I would assume being fully blind means something like recognizing Jesus as just a man or false prophet.

If Israel is currently blind in part but not fully blind then most all those who identify as Orthodox Jews are not Israel because they completely reject Jesus. Who or where is the Israel that is blind in part?

 

[grafted branch]

That kinda what i was thinking--doing a little at first for the man to adjust--and then perfecting it. It may have been that a spontaneous going from blindness to sight may have been a difficult change for this man. Jesus took folk where they were at.
To give you an example, and this might be a stupid one(forgive me) but when you have angelfish and you are going to turn on the light in the tank, you must do it dimly at first or you can kill them. First a dim light fr a moment and then the whole light, and they are fine.
I just wonder if the transition might of necessity been in 2 stages for this man.

That makes sense, we also see this sort of thing in Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightaway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

It could be those who were transitioning to the new covenant were not seeing clearly by still being zealous for the law. In Acts 21:20 there are thousands of Jews which both believed and were still zealous for the law.

 

[MatthewG]

Humans are similar to trees. They breathe, get beaten down they tend to break and lose limbs. Etc…

 

[lforrest]

That kinda what i was thinking--doing a little at first for the man to adjust--and then perfecting it. It may have been that a spontaneous going from blindness to sight may have been a difficult change for this man. Jesus took folk where they were at.
To give you an example, and this might be a stupid one(forgive me) but when you have angelfish and you are going to turn on the light in the tank, you must do it dimly at first or you can kill them. First a dim light fr a moment and then the whole light, and they are fine.
I just wonder if the transition might of necessity been in 2 stages for this man.

I think it was a necessity for him for technical reasons unknown to us. Such as with the epileptic boy in Matthew 17. Who the disciples didn't know how to heal so they turned to Jesus.

 

[Deep Truth]

If you are defining “blind in part” as someone who recognizes Jesus as the Messiah but doesn’t fully understand how He was a suffering Messiah, then how would you define being fully blind? I would assume being fully blind means something like recognizing Jesus as just a man or false prophet.

If Israel is currently blind in part but not fully blind then most all those who identify as Orthodox Jews are not Israel because they completely reject Jesus. Who or where is the Israel that is blind in part?

So what is God saying in this scripture?

• Romans 11:25-26 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. (26) And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob";

The scriptures say that one third of Israel will be saved while two thirds will perish. So two thirds of Israel are blind and will reject Jesus, but God knows who the one third that are seeking to know the Lord that will be saved.

And only God knows if this one third of Israel is partially blind or totally blind to Jesus at this point in time. But when Jesus pours out his spirit on them, they will recognize their suffering Messiah and be saved by faith.

 

[grafted branch]

So what is God saying in this scripture?

• Romans 11:25-26 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. (26) And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob";

I believe He is saying that Israel at that time, first century, believed in Jesus as the Messiah but also was still zealous for the old covenant law. There were different burdens between Jew and Gentile as seen in Acts 15:28-29. These different burdens seemed good to the Holy Spirit but this difference was temporary until that generation of Jews, that experienced the transition from old covenant to new covenant, passed. It was that Israel that was blind in part. The fullness of the Gentiles came in when the Gentiles fulfilled all that was written for them to accomplish in the book Daniel. That is why Luke 21:22 says “that all things which are written may be fulfilled”.

The times of the Gentiles ended when they sacked Jerusalem and fulfilled all that was written, currently there is no difference between Jew and Gentile. I don’t know of any church that currently places the Acts 15 different burdens on church members based on whether they are Jew or Gentile. Why wouldn’t a church that believes we are still in the times of the Gentiles not want to continue placing the different burdens that seemed good to the Holy Spirit?

The scriptures say that one third of Israel will be saved while two thirds will perish. So two thirds of Israel are blind and will reject Jesus, but God knows who the one third that are seeking to know the Lord that will be saved.

And only God knows if this one third of Israel is partially blind or totally blind to Jesus at this point in time. But when Jesus pours out his spirit on them, they will recognize their suffering Messiah and be saved by faith.

If only God knows whether they are part blind or fully blind then why does Paul say blindness in part has happened to Israel? Paul wasn’t guessing was he?

The one third would have to be the Israel that was only blind in part. The problem is that there currently is no group of people that call themselves Jews and believe in Jesus but don’t understand that He was a suffering Messiah.

 

[FaithWillDo]

And they (Jesus and the disciples) came to Bethsaida. And some people brought to him a blind man and begged him to touch him. (23) And he took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the village, and when he had spit on his eyes and laid his hands on him, he asked him, "Do you see anything?" (24) And he looked up and said, "I see men, but they look like trees, walking." (25) Then Jesus laid his hands on his eyes again; and he opened his eyes, his sight was restored, and he saw everything clearly, Mark 8:22-25.

Dear DeepTruth,
The main purpose of the story is to teach when an Elect believer's spiritual blindness is healed. The second witness of the story's message is presented by Paul's conversion in Acts chapter 9.

The story begins here:

Mark 8:15 And he charged them, saying, take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, it is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I broke the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, how is it that ye do not understand?

In the verses above, Christ is giving His disciples a lesson on the spiritual language of God's Word - His language. At this point in time (before they were converted at Pentecost), the disciples had only received the Early Rain of the Spirit and had not yet received the Latter Rain of the Spirit (Baptism of the Holy Spirit). Because of such, the apostles were still spiritually blind and could not understand what Christ was teaching them.

Christ ends His comments above by asking the apostles this question: “How is it that ye do not understand”? No response from the Apostles is recorded in scripture. However, Christ answers His own question in the very next four verses.

Mark 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Since Christ is the Word of God, He teaches His converted Elect not only by parables and analogies but also by the things that He did. These teachings are called "types". In answering the question that He proposed to the disciples in verse 21, Christ goes to Bethsaida and gives us His answer in type by the healing of a blind man.

In verse 23, Christ leads a blind man out of the city. Once outside the city, Christ places spit on his eyes and touches him with His hands. These actions occur as the blind man is looking down which symbolizes the carnal aspect of His healing. Christ does not have to tell the blind man to look down, the blind man just does it naturally. The spit (water) Christ places on the man's eyes symbolizes the Early Rain of the Spirit with its accompanying vision (understanding). This event represents the time when an unbeliever is called out from the world and enters the church.

With the Early Rain of the Spirit, the new believer will no longer be totally blind but will instead be near-sighted. This happens because the Early Rain of the Spirit is only given in measure (a small amount) and will leave the believer carnally minded. In other words, the new believer will understand the teachings of Christ in a carnal way which will leave their house empty of the truth of God (Mat 12:43-45).

Because the new believer has almost no ability to understand the spiritual teachings of Christ, Satan will come to them and deceive them with his "another gospel" which mixes works with faith. The believer's deception happens quickly because Satan's false teachings are very pleasing to the believer's carnal nature.

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Scripture says that Satan is the crooked serpent (Job 26:13). Satan is called the crooked serpent because he teaches the crooked way of salvation by man's works. As a result, Satan's gospel mixes man's works (religion, Old Covenant) with the works of Christ (faith alone, New Covenant).

This false gospel is very deceptive to carnally minded believers:

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

When a believer accepts Satan's false gospel, they will mix the Old Wine with the New Wine. This will cause the believer to become "lukewarm" (Rev 3:16) and they will fall from grace (Gal 5:4).

Adding "works" to faith is the "sin that leads to death". John mentions that sin in 1John 5:16 and Paul mentions it in Heb 6:1-6.

These verses below apply to mixing the Old Wine with the New Wine:

Isa 1:21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers. 22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:

Prv 23:29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

Next in the story, Christ asks the blind man what he can see. The man looks up and says that he can see men "walking as trees". "Walking as trees" is a spiritual symbol for called out believers who walk by sight rather than by faith. At this point, the blind man is a type for a carnally minded believer. The man’s blindness is not total any longer but he is still very near-sighted and can only see Christ "in the flesh" (carnally).

In the final verse of the story, Christ lays His hands upon the man’s eyes again, but as He does, Christ has the man look up instead of down. This second healing represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit when clear spiritual vision is given to an Elect believer. The man’s upward gaze represents the spiritual aspect of the healing in contrast to the carnal aspect when the blind man was looking down at the earth.

The man is now shown to be a type for a called AND chosen believer (the Elect) who receive both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

It is at this time that the man has been given "eyes that can see". He is now ready for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb where Christ will feed the believer His truth. After the believer is sufficiently nourished with bread, meat and New Wine, the believer will come out from Satan's deceptions and will begin walking by faith.

Joe

 

[Bill Judson]

It doesn't mater.
Jesus healed the guy, he got his vision back, and lived happily ever after!

2 Timothy 2:23 - But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

 

[Bill Judson]

I'm just a Bible believer! Jesus is God and Hell fire is EVERLASTING! That truly upsets lots of 'Christians'.

That turns over a lot of people's religious apples carts!

 

[Timtofly]

If you are defining “blind in part” as someone who recognizes Jesus as the Messiah but doesn’t fully understand how He was a suffering Messiah, then how would you define being fully blind? I would assume being fully blind means something like recognizing Jesus as just a man or false prophet.

If Israel is currently blind in part but not fully blind then most all those who identify as Orthodox Jews are not Israel because they completely reject Jesus. Who or where is the Israel that is blind in part?

Would the Gentiles also always been in the condition of blindness in part. You make it sound like they stopped being Israel, and are in worse shape than most Gentiles. The blindness in part is what made them equal to Gentiles and now it does not matter if one is of Israel or of Gentile. All have blindness in part.

Corrupt leadership does not cause blindness, but darkness. Blindness comes from God. Total blindness would be the condition of reprobation. God removes all ability for one to repent. That is what you all base your "new Israel as the church" point on, no?

Except you have an issue, because humans are not born into the church. But humans were born into Israel, and they were not blind to the truth of God's Word and Law. They were confused in the darkness of corruption in their leadership.

If blindness in part is placed on Israel, and the church is Israel, then the church still has blindness in part as well. Either way, blindness is removed once one is in Christ. Instead of the OT economy where one is born into Christ, until they were cast off in unbelief, the second birth is when blindness is removed. Israel was not naturally partially blind, until blindness in part was placed on them by God. Now they are naturally partially blind. Not because of what they are taught from birth, but because there is no difference between being Israel and Gentile.

 

[Timtofly]

Why wouldn’t a church that believes we are still in the times of the Gentiles

Where do you get "times of the Gentiles" in the same chapter as blindness in part?

Romans 11:25.

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

That is not the "times" of the Gentiles. That is a harvest term "fulness" as in being redeemed like Israel was redeemed. Paul did not say God removed total blindness from the Gentiles so they were now partially or not blind at all. God changed Israel to being partially blind, so that many more Gentiles would now be redeemed, a fulness going on for the last two millennia.

Why would you call the Law given by God a burden the first century church was "working out"? The Law was only a burden for those who enjoyed their sin. The Law was a burden when one was in unbelief.

The sacrifice of animals was removed. However obedience to God was not removed. Paul pointed out that we should not sin even more, now, because God's grace was abundant. We should avoid sin now even more than ever, lest we make a mockery out of the Cross.

 

[Davidpt]

And they (Jesus and the disciples) came to Bethsaida. And some people brought to him a blind man and begged him to touch him. (23) And he took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the village, and when he had spit on his eyes and laid his hands on him, he asked him, "Do you see anything?" (24) And he looked up and said, "I see men, but they look like trees, walking." (25) Then Jesus laid his hands on his eyes again; and he opened his eyes, his sight was restored, and he saw everything clearly, Mark 8:22-25.

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When I read this story of the blind man, I thought it was unique due to the fact its the only time when Jesus had to lay his hands on someone twice before they were totally healed. And after contemplating a while about the peculiar two stage process that Jesus used to restore this man's sight, I had several questions concerning this miraculous event.

We must not be reading the same account if you are only seeing Jesus touching him 2 times rather than 3 times.

Look how this passage starts out---And some people brought to him a blind man and begged him to touch him. Right from the get go they are begging Him to touch him. And what does Jesus then do? Does He not touch him the fact He does this next--And he took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the village. Can't do that without touching him. And here they are from the get go getting what they were begging for, yet nothing is happening yet. The blind man is instead being led out of town, then when arriving where Jesus wants to take him, He then touches him a 2nd time. This time he is able to see, just not clearly. Then He touches him one final time. Now his sight is fully restored and that he is then sent to his house and told to not go back into town nor tell anyone in town what happened.

What does all this mean then? I'm not certain. All I'm doing is pointing out that Jesus touches him 3 times rather than 2 times before his vision is fully restored. And that maybe this is significant in order to determine what all this means?

 

[FaithWillDo]

We must not be reading the same account if you are only seeing Jesus touching him 2 times rather than 3 times.

Look how this passage starts out---And some people brought to him a blind man and begged him to touch him. Right from the get go they are begging Him to touch him. And what does Jesus then do? Does He not touch him the fact He does this next--And he took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the village. Can't do that without touching him. And here they are from the get go getting what they were begging for, yet nothing is happening yet. The blind man is instead being led out of town, then when arriving where Jesus wants to take him, He then touches him a 2nd time. This time he is able to see, just not clearly. Then He touches him one final time. Now his sight is fully restored and that he is then sent to his house and told to not go back into town nor tell anyone in town what happened.

What does all this mean then? I'm not certain. All I'm doing is pointing out that Jesus touches him 3 times rather than 2 times before his vision is fully restored. And that maybe this is significant in order to determine what all this means?

Dear Davidpt,
The story of the blind man is a type. When Christ takes the blind man by the hand, it represents the man is being "called out" from the world to enter the church. The city represents the world.

The first time Christ places spit on the man's eyes represents the man receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit. However, the Early Rain is only a "small amount" of the Spirit (Deu 32:2 & Job 37:6) and will leave the new believer carnally minded and carnally sighted. In other words, the believer will only have a carnal understanding of Christ rather than a true understanding of Him. They will see "Christ and Him crucified" (1Cor 2:2). It is these carnal believers who make up the nearly 2,000 apostate church denominations/sects that are in the world. They are the "many" who have been called out from the world:

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

From the group of "many", Christ has chosen a "few" for salvation in this age. They are the Elect. For them, Christ will come to them a second time and give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The second healing of the blind man represents him receiving the Latter Rain. The Latter Rain is what the Apostles received on the Day of Pentecost and what Paul received after being in Damascus for three days. The Latter Rain is also called the baptism of the Spirit. After a carnal believer receives the Latter Rain, their spiritual blindness will be healed. It is at that point that the believer will be able to see Christ clearly (spiritually). As a result, the truth of God's Word will open up to their understanding. This is the moment of salvation.

Joe

 

[grafted branch]

Would the Gentiles also always been in the condition of blindness in part. You make it sound like they stopped being Israel, and are in worse shape than most Gentiles. The blindness in part is what made them equal to Gentiles and now it does not matter if one is of Israel or of Gentile. All have blindness in part.

Corrupt leadership does not cause blindness, but darkness. Blindness comes from God. Total blindness would be the condition of reprobation. God removes all ability for one to repent. That is what you all base your "new Israel as the church" point on, no?

Except you have an issue, because humans are not born into the church. But humans were born into Israel, and they were not blind to the truth of God's Word and Law. They were confused in the darkness of corruption in their leadership.

If blindness in part is placed on Israel, and the church is Israel, then the church still has blindness in part as well. Either way, blindness is removed once one is in Christ. Instead of the OT economy where one is born into Christ, until they were cast off in unbelief, the second birth is when blindness is removed. Israel was not naturally partially blind, until blindness in part was placed on them by God. Now they are naturally partially blind. Not because of what they are taught from birth, but because there is no difference between being Israel and Gentile.

If you’re saying that no one has a perfect understanding of the Bible then I absolutely agree, every one of us is blind to some truths. There probably aren’t two people that agree on every single verse, so someone has to be wrong somewhere. However I don’t think this is what Romans 11:25 is referring to.

Where do you get "times of the Gentiles" in the same chapter as blindness in part?

Romans 11:25.

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

I don’t, but to understand how they are related we need to start with the times of the Jews.

The Jewish kingdom began at Sinai, when the Shekinah glory dwelt in the Tabernacle and later in Solomon's Temple. This was when the times of the Jews started, time was not based on how old the earth was but based on the reigns of the Jewish leaders at the time.

For example 1 Kings 16:8 In the twenty and sixth year of Asa king of Judah began Elah the son of Baasha to reign over Israel in Tirzah, two years.

Time is based on who is ruling which was an extension of the authority of God.
When the Babylonian captivity occurred the Shekinah glory departed the temple and the times of the Jews ended.

After the times of the Jews, Daniel gives us the images of the reigning Gentile powers on earth as animals, which one day would end. The times of the Gentiles started with Babylon and the last act that the Gentiles were prophesied to perform was the sacking of Jerusalem in Daniel 9:27, this happened in 70AD.
We see the statements such as the fullness of the Gentiles or times of the Gentiles be fulfilled because the Gentiles didn’t fully complete all that they were prophesied to do when Romans was written. Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. The times of the Gentiles came in when the fullness or completion of all things prophesied for them occurred.

We have now come to mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels. Jesus is now reigning and the Shekinah glory is in New Jerusalem in Revelation 21.

It is interesting to note that the words IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD is sometimes used when expressing a date, nobody says IN THE YEAR OF THE GENTILES.

 

[Phil .]

Without projecting beliefs about them upon them, people are as plain as trees.
And yet there is more to ‘see’ still.
It’s ‘seeing’ the emptiness of things, and then the fullness of being.