Why didn't God destroy Satan at the beginning?

[dev553344]

Yes but Lucifer was the highest beauty and creation of God until iniquity was found in him.

Ezekiel 28:11-15​

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King James Version​

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11 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Also as Genesis says when god was f inished creating, He declared all things good! So from Lucifers creation in the first six days until his rebellion, he let sin take him over.

This can be clearly used to prove my point. Yes God has foreknowledge and knew Satan would become evil. And he created him knowing he would become evil. Does that mean God creates evil? I don't believe it means God does evil because God only does good.

And the fact that God creates evil beings seems to illuminate free agency. God does not do evil but creates beings knowing they will do evil. Placing the blame on the evil creations. And not placing blame on God.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Isn't God Omnipresent?

There is nowhere God is not there.

So how is it that someone is separated from God?

Separated from communion with God as a result of sin, hence the calls to repent and turn back to Him.

 

[Truthnightmare]

This can be clearly used to prove my point. Yes God has foreknowledge and knew Satan would become evil. And he created him knowing he would become evil. Does that mean God creates evil? I don't believe it means God does evil because God only does good.

And the fact that God creates evil beings seems to illuminate free agency. God does not do evil but creates beings knowing they will do evil. Placing the blame on the evil creations. And not placing blame on God.

I agree… God exist outside of time… He’s already seen the end.

 

[Jack]

"Why didn't God destroy Satan at the beginning?"

Probably for the same reason He allows Satan's children running rampant now.

 

[ScottA]

This can also be translated as a calamity or disaster. Like when we say an evil befell someone.

There is another passage like it also:

John 1:3​

All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.​

However, understanding that God made man in His own image, then took that part Adam called "woman" (meaning the opposite of man or God) out of His image-made man, with means to return as the Bride of Christ, made anew and perfect in Him...we ought not to consider any of it as created bad, but rather made perfect--not by making all good, but by making some perfect, while also destroying that some which would not prefer it so. Such is the dividing of light from darkness.

 

[Jack]

As the Book of Job tells us, Satan has to get God's permission!

 

[BlessedPeace]

I'm not seeing your logic here....
Because God is also Omnipotent. Your, mine, and Satan's next breath isn't at God's acquiescence but at His active support.
Not one spark exists without God's help.

Blessed are the pure/holy of heart for they shall see God.

How can anyone live separated from God?

Which is to say,everything that Satan is and does is with God's active support?

 

[Taken]

Bible references please.

Job 38:7
Morning stars

Isaiah 14:12
son of the morning

Rev 12:9
Dragon, serpent, Devil, Satan

Rev 22:15
Bright and morning star

Col 1:15
Invisible God

Col 1:17
Jesus before all things

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I'm not seeing your logic here....

Logic is what the Mind does.
The Mirror example what logically what a mind can understand.

Because God is also Omnipotent. Your, mine, and Satan's next breath isn't at God's acquiescence but at His active support.
Not one spark exists without God's help.

A (created and made (“son of God”) spirit being CAN NOT DIE).

Sons of men CAN and DO become separated from their father, and continue living.

Sons of God CAN and DO become separated from their Father, and continue living.

Blessed are the pure/holy of heart for they shall see God.

All angels ARE spirits and WERE created “holy”, and were WITH God, and saw God.

Human Men CAN NOT see God.
* Human Men, “SAW” God (WHEN) God (JESUS) appeared to men, (IN the bodily Likeness AS a human man)
* Again God (JESUS) shall appear (IN the bodily Likeness AS a human man) and ALL men shall SEE Him.
* Human men that which have become BORN AGAIN of Gods SEED, (is that man’s natural spirit (ie truth in his Heart) rebirth, of his natural spirit to a spiritual spirit…and he be RISEN up in his New (spiritual, glorified, sinless) BODY……SHALL SEE God…”AS He IS”….ie spirit.

Point..
Human men can not SEE spirits.
Spirits can SEE spirits.

How can anyone live separated from God?

How can anyone live separated from God?
ANYONE is a broad term, for Human & Angel beings.

TRUE…God IS omnipresent…

However…Gods Gifts of Comfort, Peace, Joy, Beautiful Scenery, Pleasant Smells, Reflective Light, Pleasant Sounds, Ability of God to Hide Himself, Ability of God to Not Speak to whom He chooses, Ability of God to Prevent Touching Him….
IS: the TORMENTS A mans (UN-saved) departed Living soul shall experience IN Hell (temporarily, ie. Until Judgement day).
AND
IS: the TORMENTS a fallen from holiness Angel spirit being, that can NOT Die shall experience Forever.

Human men…(not saved)…
Dead body’s…return to dust
Departed Living souls….go to hell
Natural spirit (truth in heart), dies with the body, (ie is not Born again of God seed, unto ever lasting life).

Hell is a PLACE of Torments…whereby nothing Good and Pleasant of God, is Available for Hell’s occupants to enjoy.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[JohnDB]

Logic is what the Mind does.
The Mirror example what logically what a mind can understand.



A (created and made (“son of God”) spirit being CAN NOT DIE).

Sons of men CAN and DO become separated from their father, and continue living.

Sons of God CAN and DO become separated from their Father, and continue living.



All angels ARE spirits and WERE created “holy”, and were WITH God, and saw God.

Human Men CAN NOT see God.
* Human Men, “SAW” God (WHEN) God (JESUS) appeared to men, (IN the bodily Likeness AS a human man)
* Again God (JESUS) shall appear (IN the bodily Likeness AS a human man) and ALL men shall SEE Him.
* Human men that which have become BORN AGAIN of Gods SEED, (is that man’s natural spirit (ie truth in his Heart) rebirth, of his natural spirit to a spiritual spirit…and he be RISEN up in his New (spiritual, glorified, sinless) BODY……SHALL SEE God…”AS He IS”….ie spirit.

Point..
Human men can not SEE spirits.
Spirits can SEE spirits.



How can anyone live separated from God?
ANYONE is a broad term, for Human & Angel beings.

TRUE…God IS omnipresent…

However…Gods Gifts of Comfort, Peace, Joy, Beautiful Scenery, Pleasant Smells, Reflective Light, Pleasant Sounds, Ability of God to Hide Himself, Ability of God to Not Speak to whom He chooses, Ability of God to Prevent Touching Him….
IS: the TORMENTS A mans (UN-saved) departed Living soul shall experience IN Hell (temporarily, ie. Until Judgement day).
AND
IS: the TORMENTS a fallen from holiness Angel spirit being, that can NOT Die shall experience Forever.

Human men…(not saved)…
Dead body’s…return to dust
Departed Living souls….go to hell
Natural spirit (truth in heart), dies with the body, (ie is not Born again of God seed, unto ever lasting life).

Hell is a PLACE of Torments…whereby nothing Good and Pleasant of God, is Available for Hell’s occupants to enjoy.

Glory to God,
Taken

I'm not arguing the point that the unsaved/unbeliever is not much more than a zombie...the walking dead. And that is because God is always good and kind and waiting patiently for all who will to seek Him and come into repentance. Not willing to lose anyone.

However,
Because of God's omnipresence and omnipotence I know that if I were in hell (as I truly deserve but likely am not going because of the atonement) I would still rejoice because one spark or flame and I could rejoice that God is there. Which would give me more cause for celebration because I am breathing...
So either God is in Hell (Omnipresent) and keeping those fires burning forever (Omnipotence) or something else about eternal death is true....something other than what is being discussed here.

 

[Taken]

I'm not arguing the point that the unsaved/unbeliever is not much more than a zombie...the walking dead. And that is because God is always good and kind and waiting patiently for all who will to seek Him and come into repentance. Not willing to lose anyone.

However,
Because of God's omnipresence and omnipotence I know that if I were in hell (as I truly deserve but likely am not going because of the atonement) I would still rejoice because one spark or flame and I could rejoice that God is there. Which would give me more cause for celebration because I am breathing...
So either God is in Hell (Omnipresent) and keeping those fires burning forever (Omnipotence) or something else about eternal death is true....something other than what is being discussed here.

What is your point…speaking OF specifically…humans or angels?

 

[JohnDB]

What is your point…speaking OF specifically…humans or angels?

That something is wrong with the commonly held beliefs about Satan and demons and Hell. Because of all the extremely true logic about the rest of theology until it comes time for discussing Hell and Satan.

When people begin discussing Angels and Satan it seems like they are discussing another religion...a dualistic one where people are some sort of prized pawn in a cosmic battle. And that flies in the face of what we know to be true.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Without God's foreknowledge?

What created sin?

No God knew.

Lucifers own ego.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This can be clearly used to prove my point. Yes God has foreknowledge and knew Satan would become evil. And he created him knowing he would become evil. Does that mean God creates evil? I don't believe it means God does evil because God only does good.

And the fact that God creates evil beings seems to illuminate free agency. God does not do evil but creates beings knowing they will do evil. Placing the blame on the evil creations. And not placing blame on God.

God did not create evil beings. He created the angels with free will. 1/3 chose to rebel with Lucifer.

He created adam and Eve with free will. they chose to sin and plunged all mankind future to become enslaved to sin and as Romans 8 says, in capable of doing good in our own human nature.

 

[Stumpmaster]

God did not create evil beings. He created the angels with free will. 1/3 chose to rebel with Lucifer.

He created adam and Eve with free will. they chose to sin and plunged all mankind future to become enslaved to sin and as Romans 8 says, in capable of doing good in our own human nature.

Yes, opposition to God is met with opposition to Satan and his cohort.

1Co 15:21-24 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. (22) For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. (23) But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him. (24) Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power.

 

[BlessedPeace]

No God knew.

OK

Lucifers own ego.

Is that the origin of sin?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes, opposition to God is met with opposition to Satan and his cohort.

1Co 15:21-24 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. (22) For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. (23) But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him. (24) Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power.

What does your first line mean? If you are opposed to God you are for Satan not opposed and vice versa.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

OK

Is that the origin of sin?

Yes! Lucifer was the first to actually sin against God.

 

[12question]

Yes! Lucifer was the first to actually sin against God.

I'm not sure if we can say this with any certainty. Unless it was revealed to someone by God directly as it isn't stated in the records within the bible that I know of. Some may assume he was.

Speculation by using the extremely limited information from the very limited bible book doesn't make me certain Lucifer was the first to sin against the Creators. But he could have been.

How can we know for sure? Can we talk to an eyewitness and get their accountant of what really happened?

 

[BlessedPeace]

Yes! Lucifer was the first to actually sin against God.

That is not the origin of sin though.

Bible Dictionary: Sin

Keep in mind,you are saying Lucifer transgressed,sinned,while on Heaven. That final destination for all Christians who have been saved from their sins.