Why didn't God destroy Satan at the beginning?

[Hobie]

Satan always wanted to be God and will do everything he can to pretend he is Christ when he's here to deceive the world. It’s important to remember that Lucifer which is another name for Satan, had challenged the fairness and justice of God. He had started with his lies in heaven, and the very idea of telling a lie had never entered the minds of the angels. So the angels didn’t grasp all that lay behind Lucifer’s deceptions. So we see what Satan wanted from the start and what had come into his heart.
Isaiah 14:12-13
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:’

But Christ is the true morning star as we see in Revelation:
Revelation 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Now the place that Lucifer wants it to be at 'the mount of the congregation' in the 'north' which is God's throne..
We find the same in Psalm 48:1-2:
Psalm 48:1-2
1 Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness.
2 Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.

If God had destroyed Satan immediately, the angels would have begun to serve Him from fear rather than from love. This would have defeated the very purpose He had in creating beings with the power of choice in the first place. God gave Satan a chance to demonstrate his system which he wanted to bring in to replace that of God. That’s why Satan was given an opportunity to show it to the worlds, and to Adam and Eve who allowed the deception here. So our world become the testing ground where Satan and his character and the nature of the kingdom he wants, are contrasted with the character of God and the nature of His kingdom. So who we choose is important and Satan will throw a curveball at us at the end.

We know that Satan can transform himself to a 'angel of light' and will show himself at the end claiming worship that belongs to God and wanting to be God. He did it in heaven and deceived a third of the angels and they followed him.
Revelation 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

And Satan will do it again at the end. But we know how it ends.

 

[dev553344]

You need to read the 2nd book of Enoch to understand Satan's role in the heavens before man on the earth and such.

 

[Wrangler]

You need to read the 2nd book of Enoch to understand Satan's role in the heavens before man on the earth and such.

Oh? I have not read any of the Apocrypha yet.

 

[dev553344]

Oh? I have not read any of the Apocrypha yet.

Well I think the Roman Catholics left out a lot of the manuscripts early on. The've found a lot in the dead sea scrolls.

But it spells out that Satan was created as a dark angel spirit and in the lower levels of heaven he kept prisoners and tortured those that broke the commandments of God.

 

[Hobie]

Well I think the Roman Catholics left out a lot of the manuscripts early on. The've found a lot in the dead sea scrolls.

But it spells out that Satan was created as a dark angel spirit and in the lower levels of heaven he kept prisoners and tortured those that broke the commandments of God.

Now you see why its apocryphal, 'of doubtful authenticity'

 

[Wrangler]

If God had destroyed Satan immediately, the angels would have begun to serve Him from fear rather than from love.

I don't think that the loyal Angels would fear God beyond what they should in any event.

My grandfather was a Sargeant in WWII. He never expressed fears when his commanders struck the enemy.

I do believe your conception of 'the other' is misplaced, poisoned by our good country succumbing to Cultural Marxism (identity politics, where everything is falsely racism and sexism, etc). The Central Organizing Principle among the rational is not race (not identity politics) but morality. It is not the Angels v God or man. It is the good v the bad.

I believe God does all things for his glory, including keeping Satan alive.

Believe me when I tell you that this question, why God allows evil to exist, fallen Angels to pray on people, is one that I contemplating for decades. IMO, one of the most troubling verses in the Bible is
Jesus said, “Simon, listen to me! Satan has demanded the right to test each one of you, as a farmer does when he separates wheat from the husks
Luke 22:31 (CEV)

This verse put the fear of God in me. That God would grant Satan's demand strikes me to my soul. I am very well educated and have taken many tests. The difference between those tests and this is I knew the other tests were fair. We can count on Satan to test us in the most unfair way possible.

On our own, we have no chance. But that's the way it is, with or without Satan.

Our only chance is to embrace Romans 10:9, believe that God raised Jesus from the dead, made Jesus lord and Messiah, then we will be saved. Compared to the power of God through his Anointed, Satan is nothing. In the final analysis, evil does not overpower, it seduces. We must be tested so the truth of our nature will be revealed. Otherwise, what could be our defense to YHWH, that we would not give into temptation had the temptation not been there? How childish!

Isaiah 48:10 Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tried you in the furnace of affliction.

1 Peter 1:7 So that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Proverbs 17:3 The crucible is for silver, and the furnace is for gold, and the Lord tests hearts.

 

[Jericho]

I think God has to let certain things play out as an object lesson of sorts. God could have destroyed Satan immediately, but certain questions and doubts would remain. Questions like: Why is sin bad? Do we really need God? Is God really greater? For the angelic beings created in perfection, they would have no point of reference to answer these questions. How would they know why sin or rebellion is bad if they never experienced the consequences of it?

Sometimes, you can't tell someone; you have to show them. It's like a parent telling their child not to touch a hot stove. The child would not understand why touching a hot stove is bad if they had never experienced being burned before. They may decide to do it anyway. Once they touch a hot stove for themselves, only then will they truly understand why they were told not to touch it. So, God needs to put those questions to rest once and for all.

Every bad thing that has happened since the fall of Satan and Adam is the result of sin and rebellion. To prevent any future rebellions from happening, he needs to demonstrate his supremacy. Not for His sake, but for ours. I do believe he wants to defeat Satan on an even playing field to demonstrate his supremacy to us. Once everything is said and done and Satan and those who followed him are finally defeated, we can have eternal peace and perfection as God intended it to be.

 

[Hobie]

I don't think that the loyal Angels would fear God beyond what they should in any event.

My grandfather was a Sargeant in WWII. He never expressed fears when his commanders struck the enemy.

I do believe your conception of 'the other' is misplaced, poisoned by our good country succumbing to Cultural Marxism (identity politics, where everything is falsely racism and sexism, etc). The Central Organizing Principle among the rational is not race (not identity politics) but morality. It is not the Angels v God or man. It is the good v the bad.

I believe God does all things for his glory, including keeping Satan alive.

Believe me when I tell you that this question, why God allows evil to exist, fallen Angels to pray on people, is one that I contemplating for decades. IMO, one of the most troubling verses in the Bible is
Jesus said, “Simon, listen to me! Satan has demanded the right to test each one of you, as a farmer does when he separates wheat from the husks
Luke 22:31 (CEV)

This verse put the fear of God in me. That God would grant Satan's demand strikes me to my soul. I am very well educated and have taken many tests. The difference between those tests and this is I knew the other tests were fair. We can count on Satan to test us in the most unfair way possible.

On our own, we have no chance. But that's the way it is, with or without Satan.

Our only chance is to embrace Romans 10:9, believe that God raised Jesus from the dead, made Jesus lord and Messiah, then we will be saved. Compared to the power of God through his Anointed, Satan is nothing. In the final analysis, evil does not overpower, it seduces. We must be tested so the truth of our nature will be revealed. Otherwise, what could be our defense to YHWH, that we would not give into temptation had the temptation not been there? How childish!

Isaiah 48:10 Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tried you in the furnace of affliction.

1 Peter 1:7 So that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Proverbs 17:3 The crucible is for silver, and the furnace is for gold, and the Lord tests hearts.

Well, the solders certainly would fear if they were struck by friendly fire, and you can see many angels were confused by Satan and had to leave heaven.
Revelation 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

[ScottA]

I think God has to let certain things play out as an object lesson of sorts. God could have destroyed Satan immediately, but certain questions and doubts would remain. Questions like: Why is sin bad? Do we really need God? Is God really greater? For the angelic beings created in perfection, they would have no point of reference to answer these questions. How would they know why sin or rebellion is bad if they never experienced the consequences of it?

Sometimes, you can't tell someone; you have to show them. It's like a parent telling their child not to touch a hot stove. The child would not understand why touching a hot stove is bad if they had never experienced being burned before. They may decide to do it anyway. Once they touch a hot stove for themselves, only then will they truly understand why they were told not to touch it. So, God needs to put those questions to rest once and for all.

Every bad thing that has happened since the fall of Satan and Adam is the result of sin and rebellion. To prevent any future rebellions from happening, he needs to demonstrate his supremacy. Not for His sake, but for ours. I do believe he wants to defeat Satan on an even playing field to demonstrate his supremacy to us. Once everything is said and done and Satan and those who followed him are finally defeated, we can have eternal peace and perfection as God intended it to be.

Yes...actually, just as Jesus "was slain before the foundation of the world", so too was Satan destroyed.

And yes, this is just the revealing of all that occurred even before the world began. This is just us walking it out, experiencing every fiber, as our last will and testament for or against us before the Judgement.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Destroying Lucifer would have meant destroying those who followed him.

 

[12question]

I think God has to let certain things play out as an object lesson of sorts. God could have destroyed Satan immediately, but certain questions and doubts would remain. Questions like: Why is sin bad? Do we really need God? Is God really greater? For the angelic beings created in perfection, they would have no point of reference to answer these questions. How would they know why sin or rebellion is bad if they never experienced the consequences of it?

That's a good way of interpreting the biblical account of the fall. It makes sense.

And just to add to that, I have found comfort in knowing that some of God's character may have been undisclosed at the point when He made this creation. Such as His mercy, grace, love, longsuffering, forgiveness. Unless there was an offence then God would not have need to respond with showing mercy by forgiving the offender and bestowing His grace to them. These attributes of God may have remained hidden or unobservable to His created beings.

 

[12question]

I believe God does all things for his glory, including keeping Satan alive.

Thanks for the reminder.

 

[12question]

Destroying Lucifer would have meant destroying those who followed him.

Do you mean, if God had done it already, it would have been a bit premature? That God has more for him to do before he is thrown into the lake of fire prepared for him?

 

[12question]

This would have defeated the very purpose He had in creating beings with the power of choice in the first place.

Yes, I was just reading the creation story. The first human kind seemed to have the capacity to choose what to say and what to do as did other things God created, like the serpent.

Gen 3
1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ”

4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

13 And the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

14 So the Lord God said to the serpent:

“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

 

[12question]

You need to read the 2nd book of Enoch to understand Satan's role in the heavens before man on the earth and such.

I've never read the books of Enoch. Are you able to post the passage you are referring to or at least the chapter and verse. Thanks

 

[dev553344]

I've never read the books of Enoch. Are you able to post the passage you are referring to or at least the chapter and verse. Thanks

Read Chapter VII : Full text of "The Second Book Of Enoch [The Book Of The Secrets Of Enoch].pdf (PDFy mirror)"

It's in the second heaven.

 

[Hobie]

I think God has to let certain things play out as an object lesson of sorts. God could have destroyed Satan immediately, but certain questions and doubts would remain. Questions like: Why is sin bad? Do we really need God? Is God really greater? For the angelic beings created in perfection, they would have no point of reference to answer these questions. How would they know why sin or rebellion is bad if they never experienced the consequences of it?

Sometimes, you can't tell someone; you have to show them. It's like a parent telling their child not to touch a hot stove. The child would not understand why touching a hot stove is bad if they had never experienced being burned before. They may decide to do it anyway. Once they touch a hot stove for themselves, only then will they truly understand why they were told not to touch it. So, God needs to put those questions to rest once and for all.

Every bad thing that has happened since the fall of Satan and Adam is the result of sin and rebellion. To prevent any future rebellions from happening, he needs to demonstrate his supremacy. Not for His sake, but for ours. I do believe he wants to defeat Satan on an even playing field to demonstrate his supremacy to us. Once everything is said and done and Satan and those who followed him are finally defeated, we can have eternal peace and perfection as God intended it to be.

Well, there are limits to what God will allow the devil to do, as otherwise humankind would be destroyed....

 

[Truthnightmare]

Do you mean, if God had done it already, it would have been a bit premature? That God has more for him to do before he is thrown into the lake of fire prepared for him?

That’s not my premise, but yes there is more to be done, as it is written…

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

 

[12question]

Read Chapter VII : Full text of "The Second Book Of Enoch [The Book Of The Secrets Of Enoch].pdf (PDFy mirror)"

It's in the second heaven.

Thanks. I'll have a read.

 

[12question]

Read Chapter VII : Full text of "The Second Book Of Enoch [The Book Of The Secrets Of Enoch].pdf (PDFy mirror)"

It's in the second heaven.

Ok