Why Do Christians Not Honor The Sabbath?

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Read what 1 John 2:4 says: Whoever says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. Are you a liar, CRFTD?

No, but you are IMO.

So they said to him, “What shall we do that we can accomplish the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God: that you believe into the one whom [GOD] sent.” John 6:28-29

Now [it is] clear that no one is justified in the sight of God by the law, because “the one who is righteous will live by faith.” Galatians 3:11

Therefore, where [is] boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we consider a person to be justified by faith apart from the works of the law. Romans 3:27-28

But before faith came, we were detained under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed. So then, the law became our guardian until Christ, in order that we could be justified by faith. Galatians 3:23-24

Wherefore, my brethren, you also were put to death to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. Romans 7:4

 

[bling]

When some read in the New Testament about sabbath days that were shadows of the body of Christ and that passed away at the cross, they become confused and declare they mean the weekly Sabbath. They greatly err and lead many uninformed people into error. Let's turn to Colossians 2:14-17 and read about the abolition of these sabbath days that were in the law and that enjoined meat offerings, drink offerings, new moons, and festivals: "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; ... let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holyday [a feast day, A.S.V.], or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days, which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

There was nothing in the Ten Commandments about meats, drinks, new moons, sabbath days (plural), or feast days. All these were in the law which the Lord told Moses to command to the people. The weekly Sabbath is not mentioned in these texts. Paul says plainly that he is speaking of "sabbath days which are a shadow of things to come," and not of the weekly Sabbath which was a memorial of something that happened in the past at creation. The 4th commandment does not tell us to keep the 7th-day as a type of something to come. It says: "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy ...For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it." There is all the difference in the world between a typical shadow and a memorial. A shadow points forward, and a memorial points backward. The contrast is as distinct as that between night and day. And to show that He never had the weekly Sabbath in mind, Paul distinctly mentioned "sabbath days which are a shadow of things to come." Of course the word "days" in this text (Colossians 2:14-17) is supplied, but this is justified by the fact that the word "sabbath" in the Greek is in the plural. Anyone may confirm this by consulting any Greek lexicon.

Where this idea of Christ having become the Christian "Sabbath" comes from I have no idea but it's not scriptural. If God's 7th-day Sabbath had not been abrogated and replaced with man's Sunday such a preposterous idea would never have been invented.

You are jumping into the middle of a discussion, go back and address my questions in post 266.

Yes, Paul does use the plural for Sabbath, but that is because Saturday was not the only Sabbath.

Heb. 10: 1 kind of refutes this argument.

The OT was all a "shadow in comparison to the reality we have today, of obedience to God's Law out of a compelling Love.

 

[KCKID]

No, but you are IMO.

So they said to him, “What shall we do that we can accomplish the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God: that you believe into the one whom [GOD] sent.” John 6:28-29

Now [it is] clear that no one is justified in the sight of God by the law, because “the one who is righteous will live by faith.” Galatians 3:11

Therefore, where [is] boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we consider a person to be justified by faith apart from the works of the law. Romans 3:27-28

But before faith came, we were detained under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed. So then, the law became our guardian until Christ, in order that we could be justified by faith. Galatians 3:23-24

Wherefore, my brethren, you also were put to death to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. Romans 7:4

What did I say that would constitute my being a liar?

Please address 1 John 2:4. One more time, it states most deliberately that those who say that they know God but don't do what He commands are liars and the truth is not in them. Please address THAT specific scripture minus the red herrings. Do YOU do what God commands or don't you? Do YOU keep the Ten - that's ALL TEN! - Commandments of God or don't you?

Thank you.

You are jumping into the middle of a discussion, go back and address my questions in post 266.

Yes, Paul does use the plural for Sabbath, but that is because Saturday was not the only Sabbath.

Heb. 10: 1 kind of refutes this argument.

The OT was all a "shadow in comparison to the reality we have today, of obedience to God's Law out of a compelling Love.

Raeneske already adequately addressed your questions in post 266 and I saw no reason to expand upon them.

You do realize that I know that the weekly Sabbath was not the only Sabbath, don't you? The big difference is - as already explained - is that the weekly Sabbath was to be a permanent reminder of Creation Week whereas the ceremonial sabbaths were just that ...ceremonial and therefore disposable post-Jesus. Paul is clearly referencing the rituals and the ceremonies that were no longer applicable for the Gentile Christians. While the Sabbath command was indeed initially given to the Jews it was later transferred to the Gentile for keeping for the very same reason ...i.e. a permanent reminder of Creation Week and the 7th-day on which God rested. Please bear in mind that - to the modern Christian - Sunday has clearly become their Sabbath ...their 'holy day'. So, any argument that you might make for the abrogation of the TRUE Sabbath is just as valid for the 'Sunday sabbath keepers' also.

I do agree with you that obedience to God is out of compelling love and I've never intended to insinuate that the 7th-day Sabbath should be kept only for legalistic reasons. However, God's commands were never intended to be kept for legalistic reasons - remember the Pharisees? - but out of love whether we be referencing the New OR the Old Testament. Furthermore, in BOTH canons of scripture salvation was given through grace and NOT the keeping of the law. Keeping the law has never saved anyone. Many Christians don't know this and believe that grace only occurred post-Jesus.

If all of the misinformation about scripture were fed into a robot it's head would explode . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

While the Sabbath command was indeed initially given to the Jews it was later transferred to the Gentile for keeping for the very same reason

That is a lie, the law was never given to teh gentiles, we came to Christ under grace. There is a new and better covenant that is grace though Christ and His works. How can you keep going back to something that was never yours and only lead to death, there is only life in Christ. Why do so many choose the old when the new is better.

Luk_5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Its because they cant comprehend grace

Luk 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.

In all His Love

 

[Raeneske]

1. Because those are shadows, and not part of the Moral Law, which shall last throughout eternity.

[SIZE=medium]Hebrews 10:1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Col. 2: 16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]So according to Paul the Sabbath days specifically were shadows. [/SIZE]



[SIZE=medium]2) My emphasis was generally on the difference between Pastors, and the normal Evangelist Christian.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Do you agree: “All Christians are to be priests, in the Kingdom that is here and now?”[/SIZE]









[SIZE=medium]5) My point is to point out the difference, between Pastoral Work, and the normal evangelistic work for a Christian. My terminology may be slightly off, but I'm emphasizing, again, the difference between Pastoral work, and the work for a normal evangelistic Christian.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Should all “work” of Christians whether “pastoral” or “normal” be in obedience to God’s commands and thus be offered up to God as worship? [/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]6) That's interesting. I don't know if I can one hundred percent agree with that. But I do know that God does not want us doing our normal things on this day, as per Isaiah 58.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]So what makes you think God wants us to be satisfying “self-interest” on Monday? [/SIZE]



[SIZE=medium]7) Righteous worship and vain worship... So doing what man says you must do vs. what God says you must do? I assume it would be vain worship?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Offering up to God, as worship, obedience to the commandments of men is van worship and is in contrast to righteous worship. [/SIZE]



[SIZE=medium]8) I wouldn't really say its okay, I'd just say there are times when you are not doing those things, because I'm not %100 sure in every situation you would be doing these things all the time. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]If it is never “OK” to stop offering yourself as a living sacrifice to God (be actively in obedience and offering that obedience up to God as worship), then would it be wrong not to (a sin)? [/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]9) ...[/SIZE]



[SIZE=medium]10) That is an impossibility. If such was their belief, then there's a possibility they themselves, misunderstood the Sabbath Day. You would never be able to do a single secular thing, or even clean your house, clothes, etc. for that matter. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium] Well it's interesting, God says He gives us 6 days to do our labour. Then He says the Seventh Day is His, which is why we do what HE wants on that day. This does not suggest we never, pray, or worship, etc. on other days. It simply dictates that one entire day is devoted to God -- you are estranged from all secular manner of work.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]God may have liked and said prior to the Ten Commandments to set the Jews up as a nation of priests, but they were way to rebellious and it could never work under the written “Law” type relationship. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]BUT, as Christians we all now have: the indwelling Holy Spirit, the example Christ set and the Love both Christ and God showed for us with the cross. Just as, a human with Deity living inside of Him (Christ) was is constant worship, we with Deity inside of us can be in constant worship, even though we are doing what the world may perceive as “secular work”. We can and hopefully are doing exactly what Christ would be doing in our situation for the next 60 seconds and the 60 seconds after that and so on. Just as Christ constantly mentored the small group around Him as He moved through the world, we are allowing Christ in us to constantly mentoring the small group of seekers around us. [/SIZE]

1) We are having an issue with "grouping" everything; the issue is jam packing everything. This happens with the events in Revelation (And lets not forget, the later chapters of Daniel) as well, as almost all the events are jammed packed into a 7 Year Tribulation. Now we are having the same thing with the laws shared in the old Testament. Simply because you find something in the Old Testament does not mean that it has "Passed Away". That kind of idea needs to flee every single Christians mind at this very moment, because that is entirely dangerous to your Salvation. Now, the we see that a law, or set of laws, was the shadow of things to come; I would like to ask how "Remember the Sabbath Day, established in Genesis 2:1-3" a shadow of things TO come. Why was the Sabbath Commandment Created? Read Exodus 20:8-11. When was the Sabbath Day set apart for Holy Use? Read Genesis 2:1-3. Do any of these verses suggest that the Sabbath Commandment is a shadow of things to come? Show me.

Now, as for the entire 10 Commandment law, again, I must ask how is this a shadow of things to come? The Moral Law is something that will last for eternity. For example, will we be breaking commandment number six in heaven? No, we will not be murdering people in Heaven. What about Commandment Number two, idolatry, will we be breaking that one in heaven? No. Do this same thing with every commandment except for number 4 right now. Will we be breaking any of those commandments in Heaven? No, that's plain. Now, how are any of those laws a shadow of anything, which passed away? They aren't, because they never were a shadow, and they never passed away. The same logic applies to Commandment number four, which I have shown using Exodus and Genesis, that it was never meant to be a shadow, but a memorial.

What about the laws that were a shadow of what was to come? For example, slaying a lamb for a sacrifice. Will we be doing that in Heaven? NO. So what has passed away? The ceremonial laws, the ceremonial Sabbaths which all pointed to Jesus Christ. I urge a study on the sanctuary, and the temple services which happened in the Old Testament, and much of this confusion will be swept away.

The main problem? Someone sees something in the Old Testament, and instantly believes that it must be swept under the rug. 2 Timothy encourages us to study the word of God. Not just the New Testament. Simply by reading the Old Testament, you could find things, such as the conclusion of this entire conversation. FEAR GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. Search the Scriptures for that.

The Vail taken away from the Old Testament when reading it, does not mean to take away the Old Testament in its entirety.

2) Christians are a chosen people for God, a royal priesthood, etc. But they are not all "Pastors".

5) Your answer seems misleading. It seems to be implying that all that is in obedience to God is worshipping Him. For example, working a secular job which God does not disapprove of is deemed as "worship". This is erroneous. If this is not where you are leading, please clarify.

6) God does not disapprove of self-interest on Monday. Please do not take me out of context here. I am not saying go and ignore your duties as a Christian on Monday. I'm saying, He clearly understands we have self-interest, things we like to do, things we enjoy to do, which would not be allowed on the Sabbath Day. For example, visiting friends and family, and going out for lunch, at a restaurant, talking about things of a secular nature such as work etc., and playing a simple game of tag with all the children and cousins. This is self interest. God is not dishonoured by these things, but He would not disapprove of such either.

7) I simply am not following you on this point.

8) You do not have to "actively" always be doing something for the LORD. There are times of rest. There is a time and place for everything, as stated in Proverbs. The mind doesn't always have to be on religious activity.

10) I think perhaps if I read a little further, I would have understood what you seem to be hinting at in your posts. However, secular work is secular work no matter how you want to look at it. Operating your business plans and working for your business on this day is simply that. Secular work. God is glorified by your hard work, but He is NOT GLORIFIED when you do the secular labor when he says STOP AND REST. It's simply a matter of obedience. You are at variance with His Law when you do this. Stop and rest with me, does not mean "Continue your labour always". This is an example of man's interpretation vs. God's Word. Stop is being twisted to really mean "Keep on doing it." I don't mean any of what I'm saying in a mean way. But putting it bluntly, your post seems to be leading towards "Because we have Jesus within us now, we do not have to stop when God says stop." And that is putting it as blunt as possible. But God bluntly says "Stop". And no amount of twisting (again, not trying to say anything in a mean way dear bling, this is simply what I'm observing) the word will make "Stop" actually mean "Keep on Going".

That is a lie, the law was never given to teh gentiles, we came to Christ under grace. There is a new and better covenant that is grace though Christ and His works. How can you keep going back to something that was never yours and only lead to death, there is only life in Christ. Why do so many choose the old when the new is better.

Luk_5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Its because they cant comprehend grace

Luk 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.

In all His Love

The only way to choose the old, is to go back to all the customs and sacrifices in the past. KCKID, and me as well for that matter, have made it clear that throughout both the old and new testament, it emphasizes that the just shall live by faith. The only difference is, the Old Testament points to the grace which "is to come" and the New Testament points to the grace which "has already came".

Never was a soul saved by works. Obeying the 10 Commandments was never something you did to get saved. It was something you did because you ARE SAVED. You cannot be lead to death as a Christian Gentile by obeying "Thou shalt not kill". You can only be lead to death when you refuse to obey that law. Not because it is written in stone, but because it is written within you heart, does one obey. One can see outwardly the law which was to be written inwardly. And because that law is now written inwardly, does that mean you can now disobey it? That simply makes zero sense. You obey the law which is written inwardly. What law is written inwardly? THE 10 COMMANDMENTS. You then obey that law, because it is written in your heart, because the LORD put it there, and because you LOVE the Lord. The same logic applies to Commandment number four.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Please address 1 John 2:4. One more time, it states most deliberately that those who say that they know God but don't do what He commands are liars and the truth is not in them. Please address THAT specific scripture minus the red herrings. Do YOU do what God commands or don't you? Do YOU keep the Ten - that's ALL TEN! - Commandments of God or don't you?

You really are a disingenuous troll. I answered specifically your question with some other supportive scriptures, and all you want to do is ignore what is said and cause trouble. Jesus was asked by his contemporaries what they needed to do, to do the work of GOD. Jesus didn't say keep the commandments of the law; he said to believe into him:

So they said to him, “What shall we do that we can accomplish the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God: that you believe into the one whom [GOD] sent.” John 6:28-29

 

[Raeneske]

You really are a disingenuous troll. I answered specifically your question with some other supportive scriptures, and all you want to do is ignore what is said and cause trouble. Jesus was asked by his contemporaries what they needed to do to the work of GOD. Jesus didn't say keep the commandments of the law; he said GOD's will was for them to believe into him:

So they said to him, “What shall we do that we can accomplish the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God: that you believe into the one whom [GOD] sent.” John 6:28-29

Jesus peering into the future could see the sad time, when many "Christians" would come to Him proclaiming Lord, Lord. He then told these people to depart from them, and then called them workers of iniquity. Iniquity is generally defined in the Strong's Concordance as having disdain for the law, and breaking it. Jesus showed that all those who professed to be His but despised the Holy Law written with the finger of God, would be cast away from Him.

If you truly believe and love Jesus you will obey Him. To claim to follow Him, but to toss aside the law of God is not faith, but mere presumption. It is not founded upon the Word of God, but men's sayings. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God, and the Word of God specifically says "If ye love me, keep my commandments" John 14:15. It also clearly states that those who claim to love Him and don't keep His Commandments are liars. 1 John 2:4. We also know that no liar will be found in heaven Revelation 22:15. These are clear verses, which cannot be misunderstood. Those with contempt for the law of God shall be kept back from entering into the Kingdom of God.

Jesus sums up all the commandments in two sayings. These two sayings are then later explained by Paul himself, which shows just how much he understood the Gospel, and why he was the chosen vessel for the Gentiles. Paul says, that love is to keep the 10 Commandments in Romans 13:8-10 (paraphrasing of course). He mentions how the commandments all add up to loving your neighbor as yourself. Therefore, to break any of those commandments proves that you actually do not love your neighbor. Jesus explains that each of his two sayings, two commandments, are likened unto each other, meaning they have the same understandings/bearings/outlines. Therefore, if you really love God the Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ, you will not break commandments one through four. He who does this with full understanding does not actually love God.

The Just shall live by faith. Faith alone is what saves you. But if you are not obedient, your faith is not true faith. It is the same faith the demons have. They know God exists, and that Jesus is Lord and Saviour. But this faith does not save them. Jesus is the author of salvation to those that obey, not disobey. Hebrews 5:9

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The Just shall live by faith. Faith alone is what saves you. But if you are not obedient, your faith is not true faith. It is the same faith the demons have. They know God exists, and that Jesus is Lord and Saviour. But this faith does not save them. Jesus is the author of salvation to those that obey, not disobey. Hebrews 5:9

Yada yada yada. Trying to reason with SDA types is like arguing with a rock.

Obedience is faith; you just don't know what faith is:

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord (by faith), [so] walk ye in him (by faith): Colossians 2:6

Nothing about the law of Moses there. That's the whole point; we are under a new covenant with a new law, i.e., the law of faith.

 

[mjrhealth]

, the law of faith

.
Actually it is Love,

Joh_13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Joh_13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Raeneske is quiet right just hasnt got his head around the sabbath rest.

In all His Love

 

[KCKID]

You really are a disingenuous troll. I answered specifically your question with some other supportive scriptures, and all you want to do is ignore what is said and cause trouble. Jesus was asked by his contemporaries what they needed to do, to do the work of GOD. Jesus didn't say keep the commandments of the law; he said to believe into him:

So they said to him, “What shall we do that we can accomplish the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God: that you believe into the one whom [GOD] sent.” John 6:28-29

Insult noted. Reason for insult also noted. You could not respond to 1 John 2:4 without shooting yourself in the foot and so you lash out at me and refer to me as a disingenuous troll. A cornered Christian can be quite nasty and extremely unChristian-like. Okay, since you don't like 1 John 2:4, how about this one: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city (Revelation 22:14). Do you mind responding to THAT scripture or is this seen to be me "causing trouble?"

Yada yada yada. Trying to reason with SDA types is like arguing with a rock.

Obedience is faith; you just don't know what faith is:

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord (by faith), [so] walk ye in him (by faith): Colossians 2:6

Nothing about the law of Moses there. That's the whole point; we are under a new covenant with a new law, i.e., the law of faith.

You might want to check the tone of your posts. That we might not agree on scripture is one thing ...insulting others for not believing as you do is another.

That is a lie, the law was never given to teh gentiles, we came to Christ under grace. There is a new and better covenant that is grace though Christ and His works. How can you keep going back to something that was never yours and only lead to death, there is only life in Christ. Why do so many choose the old when the new is better.

Luk_5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Its because they cant comprehend grace

Luk 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.

In all His Love

In both eras (OT & NT) God's people were saved by grace alone. God has one covenant of grace and Jesus' sacrifice was applicable for all, once and for all, covering the sins of His people for all time. The following verse indicates the trans-historical nature of His sacrifice:

" . . .to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world (Revelation 13." See also John 6:39 and Hebrews 13:20.

The law never saved anyone but we ARE nevertheless told ....blessed are those that obey His commandments.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Do you mind responding to THAT scripture or is this seen to be me "causing trouble?"

Causing trouble is the only reason you are here, IMO. Answers to your questions are given, but you ignore them so you don't have to face the real issue. That is your modus operandi. The real issue is that the law has been changed. Yet you will not address that issue, which is foundational to Christianity, so that you can continue to have a bully pulpit to bash and deconstruct Christianity. That is your real goal here,

Again, the law has changed. Law is received from the priesthood; the priesthood has changed:

​Thus if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood, for on the basis of it the people received the law, what further need [is there] for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek and not said to be according to the order of Aaron? For [when] the priesthood changes, of necessity there is a change of the law also. Hebrews 7:11-12

 

[excubitor]

honoring the sabboth means "1 day of 7", not any specific day

who says?

 

[KCKID]

Causing trouble is the only reason you are here, IMO. Answers to your questions are given, but you ignore them so you don't have to face the real issue. That is your modus operandi. The real issue is that the law has been changed. Yet you will not address that issue, which is foundational to Christianity, so that you can continue to have a bully pulpit to bash and deconstruct Christianity. That is your real goal here,

Again, the law has changed. Law is received from the priesthood; the priesthood has changed:

​Thus if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood, for on the basis of it the people received the law, what further need [is there] for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek and not said to be according to the order of Aaron? For [when] the priesthood changes, of necessity there is a change of the law also. Hebrews 7:11-12

Contradictions, contradictions. The catch-cry of the majority of, if not all, Christians is that God does not change. Then, in the next breath we are told by these same Christians that God's law DID change. Which is it? Does God not change or does He? Then we are told that since we are under the new covenant of grace (nothing new about it!) that obedience to God's "Ten Commandments?" is no longer applicable even though there are sufficient scriptures that tell us that keeping God's commandments are tantamount to love. Furthermore, we are told that those who SAY that they love God but don't keep His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them. And you, CRFTD, say that I'm making all this up to cause trouble and 'deconstruct Christianity'. Do you have a Bible? If so, are you honestly not seeing the same things in the Bible that I've presented? You have given me NO answers to the questions I asked of you. None! All you did was to present scriptures that are either irrelevant to the topic or that have already been addressed/countered by me and others.

One more thing, please ...stop being so nasty. . .

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You have given me NO answers to the questions I asked of you. None! All you did was to present scriptures that are either irrelevant to the topic or that have already been addressed/countered by me and others.

What a fool you are.

 

[excubitor]

Contradictions, contradictions. The catch-cry of the majority of, if not all, Christians is that God does not change. Then, in the next breath we are told by these same Christians that God's law DID change. Which is it? Does God not change or does He? Then we are told that since we are under the new covenant of grace (nothing new about it!) that obedience to God's "Ten Commandments?" is no longer applicable even though there are sufficient scriptures that tell us that keeping God's commandments are tantamount to love. Furthermore, we are told that those who SAY that they love God but don't keep His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them. And you, CRFTD, say that I'm making all this up to cause trouble and 'deconstruct Christianity'. Do you have a Bible? If so, are you honestly not seeing the same things in the Bible that I've presented? You have given me NO answers to the questions I asked of you. None! All you did was to present scriptures that are either irrelevant to the topic or that have already been addressed/countered by me and others.

One more thing, please ...stop being so nasty. . .

Obviously you are not seeing the same things in the book of Galatians that I am seeing.

 

[Dan57]

What or who is the Sabbath? Jesus said that he was Lord of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8). So imo, when we remember him, we keep the Sabbath..... everyday. Nothing complicated about it

 

[mjrhealth]

1Co_3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

The OT was all about man "doing" things to become righteous, which He could not, the NT is all about man resting in "Christ", because He has finished the work.

In all His Love

 

[KCKID]

What a fool you are.

Whosoever shall say, "Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire (Matthew 5:22)." Be careful, CRFTD!

Why on earth are you getting so hung up on this topic? It's only a debate, for heaven's sakes. Again, please ...stop being so nasty and, again, please ...answer the questions I asked of you. Would you like me to repeat them?

What or who is the Sabbath? Jesus said that he was Lord of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8). So imo, when we remember him, we keep the Sabbath..... everyday. Nothing complicated about it

Nonsense.

Obviously you are not seeing the same things in the book of Galatians that I am seeing.

Actually I am, I just interpret the scripture differently (apparently) than you do as do many millions of Christians throughout the world. Are we to somehow imply that Paul - a mere mortal - had the capacity and the authority to change time? Some feat! And, for absolutely NO REASON, mind! For those who believe the Bible, God created the world and all that is in it in six days and rested on the 7th. God then blessed and sanctified the 7th-day and incorporated this fact in the Ten Commandments. Commandment #4 is prefixed with "Remember" as if foreknowledge that people would forget to regularly honor that day. And, they have! The Creation story - again, for those who believe the Bible - is established. It cannot be changed and it really doesn't take a Rhodes Scholar to understand that. Paul would not and COULD NOT change the solemnity of a day that HE in fact honored customarily. Once again, as I've already mentioned a number of times, many more millions of Christians diligently keep 'a sabbath' every week and few criticize this as their being 'bound by the law'. It's only when the 7th-day Sabbath issue is raised that people begin to bristle and start name-calling. Why is this, do you think?

1Co_3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

The OT was all about man "doing" things to become righteous, which He could not, the NT is all about man resting in "Christ", because He has finished the work.

In all His Love

While still remaining with the position I've persistantly taken, WHY would God (who NEVER changes, remember ... ) initiate laws that people could not keep and which could/would result in their death if they didn't? Furthermore, what the heck does "resting in Christ" actually mean? How does one actually apply that term to their everyday life? And, what has this got to do with the 7th-day Creation Sabbath where God rested and made an everlasting memorial from it ...??

 

[mjrhealth]

Its like this KCID, you can doo all you like to try please God and just make a fool of your self, for when you stand before Jesus and say " hey Jesus look at me , look at all that I did". and Jesus with a smile would say, " I had already done it all". Resting in Christ is all about resting from your own works, even keepin teh Sabbath is a work which is why it could never save anyone. Its Grace or the law you cant take bits of one and mix it with the other. You have a decision to make which will it be.?? Your life depends on teh choice..

Deu_30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

In all His Love

 

[Raeneske]

Yada yada yada. Trying to reason with SDA types is like arguing with a rock.

Obedience is faith; you just don't know what faith is:

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord (by faith), [so] walk ye in him (by faith): Colossians 2:6

Nothing about the law of Moses there. That's the whole point; we are under a new covenant with a new law, i.e., the law of faith.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Its like this KCID, you can doo all you like to try please God and just make a fool of your self, for when you stand before Jesus and say " hey Jesus look at me , look at all that I did". and Jesus with a smile would say, " I had already done it all". Resting in Christ is all about resting from your own works, even keepin teh Sabbath is a work which is why it could never save anyone. Its Grace or the law you cant take bits of one and mix it with the other. You have a decision to make which will it be.?? Your life depends on teh choice..

Deu_30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

In all His Love

Faith saves us, we agree with you on that point. What we disagree with you on is that we are obeying the law to Get Saved. No. You obey because you are saved. You obey because you love Him, not to get saved. The same logic applies to every single commandment. Do you not commit idolatry because you love Jesus? The law is written in your heart to obey. The same logic applies to the 4th Commandment as well.

What or who is the Sabbath? Jesus said that he was Lord of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8). So imo, when we remember him, we keep the Sabbath..... everyday. Nothing complicated about it

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. That does not make Him the Sabbath. That's like saying the Queen of England is not just the queen, but she is England herself. That doesn't make any sense. The reason He is LORD, is because it is HIS day. And the Sabbath points to what happens in Creation Week, and not at the cross. Therefore it simply cannot be a shadow of the cross.

And it is not possible to keep the Sabbath everyday, dear Dan. Isaiah 58:13-14 can show you that.

who says?

Consider the Scriptures when Moses pointed out exactly THE Sabbath Day, and God did not rain manna from Heaven. God has a specific day in mind, and is not allowing mankind to arbitrarily establish a day for himself, whensoever he may find it convenient to do so. There is ONE specific day dear Excubitor.