Why do we hear a different message from neighbor?

[Stranger]

Honestly, I've lost the point. Verse 25: "And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth." I don't see this happening in the church today and I want to. The disciples were of one accord. Are we? Is the body of Christ still of one accord?

You seem to suggest (forgive me if I have misunderstood) that division and difference of doctrine is a given amongst believers. Jesus prayed the Father: let them be one as we one. Can we be one and disagree? When Jesus said: you must eat my flesh and drink my blood. How many ways can "eat my flesh" and "drink my blood" be understood? Is there one correct meaning, or many meanings? Does it even matter without love or is the necessary part to be understood of (1Corinthians 14: 24-25) is "Let all things be done unto edifying."

Yes, it, division and doctrine, is a given amongst believers. The Body of Christ is One because it consists only of born-again believers. Because we are still learning about the Bible, because we still retain the old man nature, because we have different gifts within the Body, we are a recipe for divisions. You see this with the Apostle Paul and Barnabas. (Acts 15:36-41) Who was right? Both were. Paul had the importance of the mission in mind. Barnabas had the importance of the person in mind. But a division occurred. Not a division in the Body of Christ. But a division between Paul and Barnabas.

You have only to read Christ's message to the seven churches in Revelation. They would have different doctrines either approved or disapproved by Christ. So, all the way to the end, this is to be expected. Yet, the Body of Christ is undivided as it consists of the born-again believers. And we are working toward that "unity of faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man,...." (Eph. 4:143)

Stranger

 

[Ally.s.j]

Refute what? That a few priests did some bad things?
I can't refute that because they DID do some bad things. Before you go pointing fingers, however - do your homework.

Try reading a book by Protestant author Philip Jenkins called, Pedophiles and Priests. Jenkins lays out all of the REAL statistics about how the molestation problem is worse than it ever was in the Catholic Church. The reason you don't hear so much about it is because there is no money in it for the lawyers.

Simply put - before you go pointing fingers at others - clean up the mess in your own backyard . . .
Evangelical Sex Abuse Record 'Worse' Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham's Grandson Boz Tchividijian | HuffPost
Protestant Churches Grapple With Growing Sexual Abuse Crisis
Sexual Abuse of Minors in Protestant Churches
https://www.salon.com/2013/03/12/evangelical_church_accused_of_ignoring_sexual_abuse_pedophilia_ring_partner/

Matt. 7:3-5
“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

PS - you STILL haven't been able to refute anything I've presented . . .

So as normal I never read the end of your posts. Why that was so easy for you to brush it under the carpet. Sorry I never new it was only a few. . You are the blind they are leading

 

[BreadOfLife]

So as normal I never read the end of your posts. Why that was so easy for you to brush it under the carpet. Sorry I never new it was only a few. . You are the blind they are leading

Ummm, if YOU think that the problem is only a "Catholic" one - then YOU are the one who is blind.

I have you not less than FOUR independent sources to read for yourself - as well as the name of a book you desperately need to read. The only one "brushing" anything under the carpet is YOU . . .

 

[101G]

Ummm, if YOU think that the problem is only a "Catholic" one - then YOU are the one who is blind.

I have you not less than FOUR independent sources to read for yourself - as well as the name of a book you desperately need to read. The only one "brushing" anything under the carpet is YOU . . .

I can't believe this, arguing over who is the dirtiest, my God.......Oh well, 1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things". so put your dirty gloves down.

Peace in Christ Yeshua.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Not a division in the Body of Christ. But a division between Paul and Barnabas.

1 Corinthians 1:10 KJV
[10] Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

I do get what you are saying and I am not trying to be argumentative. I don't disagree with you. I get we all have different gifts from the Spirit which makes us diversified, but those gifts make a whole and benifit the body. The thread is "Why do we hear a different message from neighbor?" And there again; there is no division in Spirit. Would the Spirit delegate gifts to unify or to separate? (A house divided falls).

You said: the body of Christ was not divided. It was Paul and Barnabas that were divided. So was it Spirit, or flesh then?

The Corinthians were all over the place. Was their division Spirit or the flesh doing the talking? I guess the point is, to say division is acceptable might be a stretch. Maybe call it what it is: pride.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

grace can only abound where sin abounds

Within the church?

Maybe the "How do you know when you are dead?" can also be seen within His body?

 

[Helen]

No I don't. That is the point. I can not understand on my own(as Bol pointed out I can't even keep up with his speech) hence the miracle (the presence of the Spirit, the true teacher of the members of His body).


It seems we can also be critical and pick apart others, then we turn and blame Bol for being critical rather than showing love.

Amen Victory... I am with you on that one

 

[Helen]

@Miss Hepburn
Thanks for info re Ignore button...
That sound too much like work to me...plus a bit complicated, that is why I have always been to scared to even try it! Ha!

 

[Helen]

I think you're wrong. God DOES give a "fig" about what we think.
Heresy is no small matter to Him . . .

Thanks for your reply BOL ... but we will obviously differ on this one...
I believe 100% that God looks deep in the heart at our hearts motivation ..
I do not believe that when we all stand face to face with Him to give account..that He will then "check out our doctrine"....
He will check out our hearts.

We may have perfect doctrine with all the i's dotted and all the t's crossed..yet have a hard,bitter, judgement heart...

That is what I believe, and everything I read in scripture shows this.

I don't believe God is going to say.."you have a bitter, hard, crooked heart...but hey, your doctrine is just perfect, so well done thou good and faithful servant, enter in.."

.....H

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Thanks for your reply BOL ... but we will obviously differ on this one...
I believe 100% that God looks deep in the heart at our hearts motivation ..
I do not believe that when we all stand face to face with Him to give account..that He will then "check out our doctrine"....
He will check out our hearts.

We may have perfect doctrine with all the i's dotted and all the t's crossed..yet have a hard,bitter, judgement heart...

That is what I believe, and everything I read in scripture shows this.

I don't believe God is going to say.."you have a bitter, hard, crooked heart...but hey, your doctrine is just perfect, so well done thou good and faithful servant, enter in.."

.....H

ByGrace, after reading your post it may be necessary to clarify what was meant by a "different message". I don't know if it was you or someone else that posted on another thread(I am paraphrasing by what I remember being discussed): a person can have perfect doctrine but it is nothing without charity (love). Of course I agree with (1 Corinthians 13). When I asked how we all have a different message, it is about more than perfect doctrine. I read the bible to learn His will and His heart.

It goes way beyond doctrine. If someone tells me God wants me to consume myself with the lust of this world and do everything I can to gain it. For me, that is a different message. If someone tells me God wants me to hate my enemies. For me, that is a different message. I don't have to have perfect doctrine to recognize this. God has stamped forgiveness and mercy on my life and He won't let me forget it. God has brought forgiveness in to my life and made it very apparent in the way He prompts me to respond to those that cause my family pain. He teaches what is good and evil. And they are completely opposite than what I once thought they were. He changes the entire perspective. It doesn't happen on a page, it manifest day to day. Then someone comes along with a different message saying, no no no, that is not God... this is God.

It is more than doctrine.
It is, who they say God is.
For me, that is the different message.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[Ally.s.j]

I can't believe this, arguing over who is the dirtiest, my God.......Oh well, 1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things". so put your dirty gloves down.

Peace in Christ Yeshua.

I think its time he stopped running other churches down. SO I guessed this would slow him down but no.

 

[Stranger]

1 Corinthians 1:10 KJV
[10] Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

I do get what you are saying and I am not trying to be argumentative. I don't disagree with you. I get we all have different gifts from the Spirit which makes us diversified, but those gifts make a whole and benifit the body. The thread is "Why do we hear a different message from neighbor?" And there again; there is no division in Spirit. Would the Spirit delegate gifts to unify or to separate? (A house divided falls).

You said: the body of Christ was not divided. It was Paul and Barnabas that were divided. So was it Spirit, or flesh then?

The Corinthians were all over the place. Was their division Spirit or the flesh doing the talking? I guess the point is, to say division is acceptable might be a stretch. Maybe call it what it is: pride.

Just because Paul and Barnabas divided, doesn't mean there is division in the Body of Christ. The Spirit was leading Paul and leading Barnabas.

The Corinthians divisions were of the flesh as some were identifying with certain individuals and others with other individuals. This resulted in envy and strife. (1 Cor. 3:1-3) The deeper cause of this was their lack of maturity when they should have been more mature. This was not the case with Paul and Barnabas.

Concerning 'a different message from neighbor', are you saying we all should have the same doctrine? That there should be no disagreement between Calvinists and Armenians, between Romanists and Protestants? Ideally, yes. Ideally we should never sin since we have the Spirit. But at this time down here we are not in an ideal world. Different levels of maturity, different gifts, different wills, the fallen nature, different circumstances to address, all involved in the Spirits work. Paul and Apollos are another example. (1 Cor. 16:12) Paul desired Apollos to visit him, yet Apollos's will was different.

I know this will not satisfy, but I don't know what you are expecting. Should every preacher every Sunday have the exact same message? Should every evangelist say the exact same things? To a degree, yes, all must be centered on the Person of Jesus Christ. But then the messages can be different depending on what the Spirit is saying to the different people.

Can the Spirit say something to you that he hasn't said to me. Of course. Why, because we are different people and our relationship with Christ is our own. The Spirit will never say something to you that contradicts what He has said in Scripture. And if it does, then that is not the Holy Spirit but a false spirit. But in the leading of the Spirit, He leads us individually.

Stranger

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Concerning 'a different message from neighbor', are you saying we all should have the same doctrine?

I am saying we should benifit the whole body of Christ. Each of us individually, should benifit the whole.
Something I feel He has brought up lately in my intimacy with Him is this (it is not directed at you): I find myself coveting and being jealous for God but He tells me that is wrong. I see so often on here the mindset of "I have intimacy and you don't. I am not going to share what God says."

Moses' relationship with God benefitted the entire body. Paul's relationship and revelations, were for the whole body, not for just Paul. It wasn't for Paul to boast in some level of intimacy achieved with God. We break off and speak of our intimacy that no one else gets to look in to. When we are on our knees before God, isn't it the Spirits work for the body of Christ? Are we not all called to move the body toward perfection? Paul laboured over the Corinthians, in actual distress for their arguing and divisions. Unity may seem impossible (in the sight of flesh), but still, shouldn't a unified body be our desire and mission?

 

[bbyrd009]

Within the church?

well, see that we are locked in a struggle for the definition of "church" though see

there is "congregation," and there is a law against congregation as a definition.
there is church as a political body--that made the law--and Church as a spiritual body,
that church more or less insists it be defined as, i could even show you the law

but to answer your Q, yes, as the Church does not need grace to abound, as weird as that seems. No one in the Church is in need of Grace, at least in a sense, that is where Grace flows from. Grace is what is needed wherever sin is, not where it isn't

Maybe the "How do you know when you are dead?" can also be seen within His body?

yes, definitely, but note that you have a definition of "His Body" that you just naturally accept as truth, when there may be better definitions of His Body, as Scripture suggests. Not meaning you specifically here of course; everyone

We have a story about His Body being rejected by many, right, when it came down to the actual consumption; imo being able to correctly ID Body would be intrinsic to proper consumption. Translation if you condemn a Good Samaritan for the fact that he is a Samaritan (Muslim, Arab, Catholic, whatever, insert race here), this speaks to your ID of Body right

the Body of Christ is hidden, as the link even reveals imo, being as how there is no sin in the Body of Christ duh

 

[BreadOfLife]

I can't believe this, arguing over who is the dirtiest, my God.......Oh well, 1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things". so put your dirty gloves down.

Peace in Christ Yeshua.

Just showing that we are ALL subject to sinning - even YOU . . .

Remember what GOD said through the Apostle John . . .
John 1:18
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Bottom line - don't accuse others of sins that YOU are guilty of . . .

 

[101G]

Just showing that we are ALL subject to sinning - even YOU . . .

Remember what GOD said through the Apostle John . . .
John 1:18
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Bottom line - don't accuse others of sins that YOU are guilty of . . .

trying to justify yourself?..... LOL. it's too late. Philippians 1:27a "Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ". not your dirty laundry.... LOL.

remember my motto below...... .
Peace in Christ Yeshua.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

the Body of Christ is hidden

I believe it as truth.

 

[bbyrd009]

I believe it as truth.

see how your pov varies from all of those hits in the link though!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

see how your pov varies from all of those hits in the link though!

Will take a closer look at the link later, when time permits. Thank you.

 

[bbyrd009]

Will take a closer look at the link later, when time permits. Thank you.

ok, understand that you don't have to go any further than the search page the link takes you to, to see what i mean, "4 sins in the Body of Christ," etc etc the point being that there is obv a big disconnect in the definition of "Body of Christ." Many declaring It contained in a wafer also, etc