Why do we need born again

[Ritajanice]

OK....I have said and I continue to say that in Ephesians 2:1-10 it says, " you were dead in your trespasses and sins," Then it says "even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)," I say "making us alive together with Christ" is regeneration. That is being born again.

In Colossians 2 we read " When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions," Here again, I say having been "made alive together with Him (Christ)" is regeneration. That is being born again.

In Romans 6 we can read, "we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life." Again, I say, "having been bruied with Him... so that we too might walk in newness of life" is regeneration. That is being born again.

And in John 5 Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life." I say that having "passed out of death into life" is regeneration. That is being born again.

You want challenges. Prove to me with scripture that in all of these, I am wrong.

None of this is wrong @JBO .....

I think we are just misunderstanding each other.....I keep forgetting we all understand God’s word very differently..

Apologies for the way I handled the situation...

That scripture is Gods word and it means exactly what his word says there.

You have posted the Living word of God.....thank you and God Bless.

 

[rwb]

No. We were obviously dead in trespasses and sin before being born again. But we were not dead in Adam's sin; rather we were dead in our own trespasses and sin (Col 2:13). The spirit God formed in each of us (Zech 12:1) was not dead.

We are dead in trespasses and sins before we are born again, because we are born in human flesh! All humans are under the sentence of death from birth. Because all humans are born in or through sin therefore, sin we all shall. When man listened to the voice of evil the whole creation was cursed to grow old, wear out and die. Since man listened to the voice of evil, until man is born again through the Spirit of Christ, his is the only voice natural man hears. It takes a supernatural change of man's heart for them to hear the voice of Christ calling them out of darkness and into His light and life. That is why man must be born again so we can hear and know Christ for everlasting life.

1 Corinthians 2:10-14 (KJV) But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Taken]

All of this in order to say

we m who were dead in tresspasses and sins, were made alive n the righteousness of Christ?

Everyone is not the same AGE, nor have heard the same things, nor understand the same.
It is quite EASY to start in the NT, and not learn the bit by bit, little by little, as a Historical man did. Yet there are very important bit by bit pieces of Knowledge that is expounded upon in the NT, but which began in the OT.

Not all believers in God are “Christians”.
Not all believers in God and Christ Jesus are “Christians”.

You may be quite familiar with Gods Order and Way, bit by bit.
But Not everyone IS.

Christianity is a VERY confusing RELIGION, to people of other Religions, such as: Jewish, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, etc.….and very young newbie Christians…

Christians….are simply Believers AND Born Again Converted Believers……ALL calling themselves “Christians” (which means follower of Christ)…
However Believers CAN stop believing, stop following, stop being a “Christian”….
AND
Born Again Converted Believers CAN NEVER stop believing.

Christians and Atheists are not the only ones searching websites for the teachings of Christ Jesus.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ritajanice]

Everyone is not the same AGE, nor have heard the same things, nor understand the same.

This i 100 % agree...we’re all at different levels of understanding....I can remember being in a discussion as a new babe....they were talking about regeneration....I hadn’t a clue what that meant....all I knew was....I was Born Again like the wind.

Well said @Taken .

 

[Taken]

This i 100 % agree...we’re all at different levels of understanding....I can remember being in a discussion as a new babe....they were talking about regeneration....I hadn’t a clue what that meant....all I knew was....I was Born Again like the wind.

Well said @Taken .

Going to a church, any church, the Cleric chooses the passage to preach on…and has to teach in such a fashion, that the Converted are hearing, the Believers are hearing, and guests ie newbies, are hearing for the first time.

This “preaching time”….an hour, maybe a bit longer….once a week, maybe twice a week.
Think about that….Maybe 8- 10 hours a month…maybe 120 hour or so a YEAR!

Pretty SCANT, especially for a newbie, trying to understand how this and that the Preacher. Selects to Preach about, can be very confusing.

We taught our kids at home, routinely, very indepth, and precise, and compounded by one of our children is profoundly deaf, which no doubt required repeated tiny baby steps of information little by little, for her to begin to get the gist of something she could not, hear, see, touch, smell, taste, feel…while trying to figure out just normal everyday things.

Scripture is ALL True, but it does not APPLY the same to ALL people. Such as you can not be a Believer and a non-believer.

It takes a long time going step by step and arriving at the AH HA moment…Got it and it thereafter all falls into place.

God Bless you,
Taken

 

[L.A.M.B.]

It does,

it shows me you have fallen for fatalism, or double predestination. Or calvanism, By which you were accused of early. And I stuck up for you which I now know was error on my part (see I am not perfect)

This is not a new thing.

This same erroneous thinking was displayed on christian chat & worthy of which we were both members.This is NOT something new as in just learned.

It behooves us NOT to fall under the spell of cunning lies of satan or the poor me backwardsness of old ladies. Ted Bundy was charming too.
( of which I don't see)

I'll be having to put both back on ignore bc I can not stand to see the buttery display of sucking up then bashing over the head with rejection and name calling received by EG & JBO

I guess some ppl just like abuse or are idiots !

 

[Ritajanice]

The thing that AMAZES me is, the seed that Mary received from God, that vital Living seed....The Holy Spirit, we too have that seed in our hearts/ spirit....that seed is the Holy Spirit.

What an Amazing Honour and Privilege that is.

To be Born Again of imperishable seed, that abideth and liveth forever in our hearts and we can NEVER lose our salvation, because we have that Living truth .we are Born Again And Saved From Eternal Damnation.......the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children.

When Gods seed is planted...in the heart of his child...there it will grow and mature...my testimony and belief.

Praise you Lord and thank you for the gift of Faith a manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

A Living Hope

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy He has given us new birthb into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

6In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in various trials 7so that the proven character of your faith—more precious than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

8Though you have not seen Him, you love Him; and though you do not see Him now, you believe in Him and rejoice with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9now that you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

10Concerning this salvation, the prophets who foretold the grace to come to you searched and investigated carefully, 11trying to determine the time and setting to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, when they foretold the things now announced by those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Going to a church, any church, the Cleric chooses the passage to preach on…and has to teach in such a fashion, that the Converted are hearing, the Believers are hearing, and guests ie newbies, are hearing for the first time.

This “preaching time”….an hour, maybe a bit longer….once a week, maybe twice a week.
Think about that….Maybe 8- 10 hours a month…maybe 120 hour or so a YEAR!

Pretty SCANT, especially for a newbie, trying to understand how this and that the Preacher. Selects to Preach about, can be very confusing.

We taught our kids at home, routinely, very indepth, and precise, and compounded by one of our children is profoundly deaf, which no doubt required repeated tiny baby steps of information little by little, for her to begin to get the gist of something she could not, hear, see, touch, smell, taste, feel…while trying to figure out just normal everyday things.

Scripture is ALL True, but it does not APPLY the same to ALL people. Such as you can not be a Believer and a non-believer.

It takes a long time going step by step and arriving at the AH HA moment…Got it and it thereafter all falls into place.

God Bless you,
Taken

Dear Taken,
Scripture says that the truth of God's Word is purposely concealed from everyone except converted Elect believers. Converted Elect believers are the only ones who have had their spiritual blindness healed by Christ. All other people (including those who are only "believers" as you call them) are spiritually blind and carnal in their understanding of God's Word. And because only "believers" make up the more than 1,000 different church denominations/sects in the world, those churches do not understand the truth of God and they teach a false gospel. Those churches are little more than just places where the blind lead the blind.

To fully understand what I stated above, a person must have a correct understanding of the pathway to salvation.

Do you understand the pathway to salvation which ends with conversion? It is a very specific pathway that all the Elect will follow - not because they choose to follow that pathway but because Christ causes them to follow it.

This verse applies:

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, it is written, Man shall not live (pathway to salvation) by bread (truth) alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

You made this profound statement:
Christians….are simply Believers AND Born Again Converted Believers……ALL calling themselves “Christians” (which means follower of Christ)…
However Believers CAN stop believing, stop following, stop being a “Christian”….
AND
Born Again Converted Believers CAN NEVER stop believing.

I completely agree with your statement. Do you understand why it is scripturally true and how it fits into the pathway to salvation that Christ causes His Elect to follow?

The pathway to salvation is very concealed in scripture but once a believer is converted and has "eyes that can see", they will be able to look back and see that they travelled it.

Joe

 

[Ritajanice]

Born Again Converted Believers CAN NEVER stop believing.

Amen!!

Because they have been Born Again of imperishable seed!!

The seed that Mary received into her womb....the seed of God.

After years of becoming Born Again of Gods seed....it still blows my mind....Praise God Always.

To be Born Again of Gods seed, is an AMAZING HONOUR AND PRIVILEGE....in Jesus Name....Amen!!

​

◄ 1 Peter 1:23 ►

​

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. New Living Translation For you have been born again, but not to a life that will quickly end. Your new life will last forever because it comes from the eternal, living word of God. English Standard Version since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God; Berean Standard Bible For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

 

[Peterlag]

we believe we have the old nature because we do. Paul spoke of the battle between the two natures. there could not be a battle unless you had both.

The old nature is just the belief I need to take care of self. That does nto go away immediately after we are saved. The need is obliterated. But as babes in Christ, we will struggle with different areas of our life until God grows us in that area..

Thats we need to be in the body, Need to be discipled. Need to study the word. And need to do all the things God tells us to to grow in him

2 Corinthians 5:17 NIV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

 

[Ritajanice]

2 Corinthians 5:17 NIV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

We have a new nature of course, that new nature is in Christ.

It’s the old mindset that needs renewing, take captive your thoughts....

God has shown us to be kind to one another, as his word says below....it needs to penetrate deep into our hearts,( Gods word)....,those who are new and weaker in the Faith...doesn’t need to be met with anger and hostility....we need to understand that in our hearts.....that was spoken to my heart today by the Lord and his word certainly penetrated deep into my heart.

When we are Born Again..we bear fruit of the Spirit....that is his fruit that we bear, as those who are in the vine, he prunes us to be more like Jesus....

Let Jesus Love penetrate our hearts so that we can Love others.and be gentle with them, but, always speaking Gods truth under his authority...by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Much more edifying when we let him speak out of our mouth than self.

Self is just focused on self, it puts others down, it’s bitter, it’s always finding fault in others, yet can see no fault in self, it’s blinded to Gods truth....
Self is tedious and boring to listen to...it’s like a record needle that gets stuck on replay.....
Self can also be such an embarrassment...as I’ve noticed looking back on some of my posts.

Self is all wrapped up in Self....the above was received today by heart revelation....

Praise God for bringing that to my attention.

And Praise God that his Spirit brings us to a place of peace and joy in him....

Galatians 5:22-23​

Galatians 5:22-23 KJV​

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law

Colossians 3:10-20​

10 Put on your new nature, and be renewed as you learn to know your Creator and become like him.
11 In this new life, it doesn’t matter if you are a Jew or a Gentile, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbaric, uncivilized, slave, or free. Christ is all that matters, and he lives in all of us.
12 Since God chose you to be the holy people he loves, you must clothe yourselves with tenderhearted mercy, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience.
13 Make allowance for each other’s faults, and forgive anyone who offends you. Remember, the Lord forgave you, so you must forgive others.
14 Above all, clothe yourselves with love, which binds us all together in perfect harmony.
15 And let the peace that comes from Christ rule in your hearts. For as members of one body you are called to live in peace. And always be thankful.
16 Let the message about Christ, in all its richness, fill your lives. Teach and counsel each other with all the wisdom he gives. Sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs to God with thankful hearts.
17 And whatever you do or say, do it as a representative of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through him to God the Father

 

[Peterlag]

To be dead in trespasses and sins is to be separated from God.

Before being born again, the human spirit is in a state of spiritual corruption and chaos. Sin makes us spiritually dead: Ephesians 2:1, 5; Colossians 2:13. This means that the sinner’s spirit is cut off from God, who is the source of life: Ephesians 2:12; 4:18. The sinner is thus depraved, evil, sinful (but not totally so, contrary to Calvinism). Sin makes us mentally twisted and unwilling to think logically: Romans 1:18, 21, 25; Ephesians 4:18. Sin makes us captive to a sinful lifestyle: Romans 8:7-8. Sin makes us vulnerable to, even defenseless against, demonic temptation and possession.

To be dead in trespasses and sins is to not be a Christian.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is not a new thing.

This same erroneous thinking was displayed on christian chat & worthy of which we were both members.This is NOT something new as in just learned.

It behooves us NOT to fall under the spell of cunning lies of satan or the poor me backwardsness of old ladies. Ted Bundy was charming too.
( of which I don't see)

I'll be having to put both back on ignore bc I can not stand to see the buttery display of sucking up then bashing over the head with rejection and name calling received by EG & JBO

I guess some ppl just like abuse or are idiots !

mind if I ask who you were on CC. I do not remember you. I do remember the calvin debate got so nasty over their that aloof of people got banned, including some good friends of mine.. I ended up closing my nic over there not long after..

 

[Ritajanice]

To be dead in trespasses and sins is to not be a Christian.

Amen!!...that is very true.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

2 Corinthians 5:17 NIV
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

Yes,

That does not mean we will not struggle in the flesh.

we would not be warned so much to keep our eyes towards the things of the spirit if it were not a posibility

 

[quietthinker]

Why do we need born again​

The term 'born again' in my view, is about seeing with new eyes ie, internal eyes, eyes of ones understanding.

Self importance and self enthronement dominates the natural heart in various forms....even hiding itself from self.
A 'new birth' so to speak is about a shift of vision, a shift of priority, a shift of relationship.....and ohhhhh, it is not 'religious'!

 

[Ritajanice]

Why do we need born again​

The term 'born again' in my view, is about seeing with new eyes ie, internal eyes, eyes of ones understanding.

Self importance and self enthronement dominates the natural heart in various forms....even hiding itself from self.
A 'new birth' so to speak is about a shift of vision, a shift of priority, a shift of relationship.....and ohhhhh, it is not 'religious'!

Love this!!!....

 

[JBO]

To be dead in trespasses and sins is to not be a Christian.

About 70% of the people in the United States claim to be Christian. I guess that you think that only about 30% of the people in the United States are dead in trespasses and sins. Interesting.

I suppose you could say not all those 70% claiming to be Christian are not really Christian. But I don't think you are the great determinator. True as your statement might be, it doesn't really say much until you define Christian.

 

[Ritajanice]

About 70% of the people in the United States claim to be Christian. I guess that you think that only about 30% of the people in the United States are dead in trespasses and sins. Interesting.

I suppose you could say not all those 70% claiming to be Christian are not really Christian. But I don't think you are the great determinator. True as your statement might be, it doesn't really say much until you define Christian.

Read this online....Evangelical Christians, even those Christians who are professed Christians, are not "born again" and do not have a "personal relationship with Jesus."

What is an Evangelical?​

Evangelicals take the Bible seriously and believe in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. The term “evangelical” comes from the Greek word euangelion, meaning “the good news” or the “gospel.” Thus, the evangelical faith focuses on the “good news” of salvation brought to sinners by Jesus Christ.


We must be Born Again of imperishable seed..to have a Living relationship with God..via His Holy Spirit @JBO

The fundamental requirement of Pentecostalism is that one be born again. The new birth is received by the grace of God through faith in Christ as Lord and Savior. In being born again, the believer is regenerated, justified, adopted into the family of God, and the Holy Spirit's work of sanctification is initiated

 

[JBO]

Evangelical Christians, even those Christians who are professed Christians, are not "born again" and do not have a "personal relationship with Jesus."

So says Mrs. god.