Why Do You Make God Subjective?

[Invisibilis]

@Truth OT
Why Do You Make God Subjective?
Generally, worldly, conditionally, all is subjective. Under such conditions, there is no such thing as objectivity; since the worldly-mind (subjective) is used to interpret the objectives.

The mind is in between body and soul. The body-mind is subjective through conditionality. The soul-mind, if the soul bears good fruit, is true and honest through unconditionality.

This is why faith (unconditional surrender of subjectivity) is the key which unlocks the door of 'self' to the Truth.
In faith (soul-mind), God is Truth.
During times of 'self' consciousness (body-mind), God is subjective.

 

[Truth OT]

The mind is in between body and soul. The body-mind is subjective through conditionality. The soul-mind, if the soul bears good fruit, is true and honest through unconditionality.

How can you substantiate the claim you make above?

 

[Truth OT]

I use man's logic to speak with you because you being dead to God could not understand me at all otherwise.

So outside of posting scriptural proofs (which I've not seen you do), you know how to use God's logic?

What must one do to be saved?
Is once saved always saved true?
What is the Lord's Church?

If a Christian answers any of these questions differently than you; which one of you is being led by the Spirit?

 

[amadeus]

@Truth OT
What is your purpose here? No matter what the result of your inquiries for you, it would not change the Truth since never changes. Do you somehow think that if no can answer your questions to your satisfaction then what you said about Truth earlier would change or that God would not exist?

So outside of posting scriptural proofs (which I've not seen you do), you know how to use God's logic?

Do you presume that there is such a thing?
Is God logical? To whom would He be or seem logical?

A man's definition of logic: Reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity.

If God has a logic it would be seen in His Ways, but who can understand them? The description by a man not directed by Him will certainly miss the mark because of blindness. Blind men need special training or help!
The answer you say you seek can never be found in the direction you are traveling.

What must one do to be saved?

You might act according to the words of Peter:

"Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:37-38

Of course I guess how good of an answer that is depends exactly what is meant by being saved!

Is once saved always saved true?

Of course! At the end of a person's course! Prior to that only if he is already an overcomer like Jesus.

What is the Lord's Church?

The one built upon the Rock without hands!

If a Christian answers any of these questions differently than you; which one of you is being led by the Spirit?

All of those who never quench the Holy Spirit! Why do you presume that different answers always will mean that one or more is not being led by the Spirit?

Did you work this hard for God? I suspect not!

 

[aspen]

The concept of my God, with the emphasis on MY is something believers would do well to give more attention to as God is so many different things to different people. In my interactions, it's quite common that people paint God as benefactor that has designed existence for the good of the specific believer. This god is a creation of the desires of the believer as opposed to what is written in the Biblical text and this egocentrically created god is more prevailent than Bible God in our society. So many will assert they know God, (and I suppose they do because he's a mental construction in their respective minds), but have no to very little familiarity with the scriptures.

humility needs to be a pillar of our walk with Christ and our veiled understanding of God. There is a high likelihood that we are wrong about a lot of what we know about God. Unfortunately, we are seduced into presenting a dogmatic front towards the world; believing in our own minds that providing a material/concrete understanding of God makes Him more believable to worldly people.

it is false, of course. The world has only accepted gods made of wood and stone since A&E were kicked out of the Garden. But, as we know, stone and wood do not save.

 

[Invisibilis]

How can you substantiate the claim you make above?

By faith, which seems incomprehensible for those needing substantiation (conditions/proof).

 

[Truth OT]

By faith, which seems incomprehensible for those needing substantiation (conditions/proof).

Having faith is something does not substantiate that something. Observable and testable evidence does. Faith does not substantiate as it could be place in anything.

Inquiring Person - "Why do you believe that?
Answering person - " "Because it's true."
Inquiring Person - "How do you know it's true?"
Answering Person - "Because my faith tells me it is."
Inquiring Person - "What makes YOUR FAITH the litmus test for truth?"
Answering Person - "It just is, if you had my faith you'd know that."

 

[Truth OT]

What is your purpose here? No matter what the result of your inquiries for you, it would not change the Truth since never changes.

I have no desire to have truth changed. I just ask that it be demonstrated that what PEOPLE are claiming is in fact truth.

Why do you presume that different answers always will mean that one or more is not being led by the Spirit?

Ephesians 4:4-5 tells the reads that there is one faith. If believers disagree on matters of faith it is rather obvious that they aren't all being led by the Spirit of Truth else they would be on one accord.

 

[Truth OT]

The one built upon the Rock without hands!

This answer does not specify which church the Anointed One built. This it the Catholic Church? How about the 1st Century Church exclusively? Is it one of the Protestant Denominations? Is it the Church of Christ? Which one(s) qualify?

 

[Episkopos]

This answer does not specify which church the Anointed One built. This it the Catholic Church? How about the 1st Century Church exclusively? Is it one of the Protestant Denominations? Is it the Church of Christ? Which one(s) qualify?

It isn't for us to delineate what is God's church and what is the church established by men and led by men (or worse)....but we can have a good idea of this if we know what to look for.

God does things very differently from men. That's why there are so many denominations. But trying to tie God down to any one methodology is futile.

 

[Truth OT]

It isn't for us to delineate what is God's church and what is the church established by men and led by men (or worse)....but we can have a good idea of this if we know what to look for.

God does things very differently from men. That's why there are so many denominations. But trying to tie God down to any one methodology is futile.

Why isn't it for us? Do we not have Bibles we claimed to be inspired texts that can be used to to the delineation for us?
Why not use the written word to see what was delineated by God and use that to judge the veracity of the varying churches that exist?

 

[Episkopos]

Why isn't it for us? Do we not have Bibles we claimed to be inspired texts that can be used to to the delineation for us?
Why not use the written word to see what was delineated by God and use that to judge the veracity of the varying churches that exist?

Because of the basic limitation of the human mind. Even the smallest things that God does are beyond our imagination. The human minds tries associating things by comparison. But God is incomparable. So you need to be visited by God and enlightened by Him to perceive Him as He is.

Otherwise it is just theories, dogmas, and imagination.

 

[Invisibilis]

Having faith is something does not substantiate that something. Observable and testable evidence does. Faith does not substantiate as it could be place in anything.

Inquiring Person - "Why do you believe that?
Answering person - " "Because it's true."
Inquiring Person - "How do you know it's true?"
Answering Person - "Because my faith tells me it is."
Inquiring Person - "What makes YOUR FAITH the litmus test for truth?"
Answering Person - "It just is, if you had my faith you'd know that."

But why do you need to substantiate something that is obvious, doubtless, and fearlessly true, in your heart and mind?

 

[amadeus]

I have no desire to have truth changed. I just ask that it be demonstrated that what PEOPLE are claiming is in fact truth.

Ephesians 4:4-5 tells the reads that there is one faith. If believers disagree on matters of faith it is rather obvious that they aren't all being led by the Spirit of Truth else they would be on one accord.

All of your life you have experienced the differences in people and when you look at documents in man's history you see also a great many differences from person to person including various beliefs about God and everything else. Do you not suppose that God understood that this was how it would be? Of course He did, and in the midst of the mess that He allowed by giving men their own will He was looking for something special in men. He was/is looking for hearts which would turn toward Him in affection and love...
rather than being concerned over men's differences and even petty squabbles over those differences. Yes, there is to be one faith, but don't try to define it by the lack of unity among believers. There are, indeed, tares among the wheat.

"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." Matt 13:30

We need to leave this to the reapers doing what God tells them to do at the time of the harvest.

 

[amadeus]

This answer does not specify which church the Anointed One built. This it the Catholic Church? How about the 1st Century Church exclusively? Is it one of the Protestant Denominations? Is it the Church of Christ? Which one(s) qualify?

Where do you suppose, He is building it, and who is able see it more clearly than as through a glass darkly? Blind people [those not in it or a part of it] cannot see it at all although it may be right before them. I would expect the members of that Church will be in many different places, both within organized church groups and outside them. The individual parts [persons] must be perfected by the work of the Holy Spirit within them to be a part. Those with eyes to see will have a vision of it that will grow clearer as they move toward God.

People without vision will never see it and they will perish as Solomon wrote in proverbs. You being blind are asking to see, but your heart is wrong and until you change, you will remain blind!

 

[Truth OT]

So you need to be visited by God and enlightened by Him to perceive Him as He is.

Otherwise it is just theories, dogmas, and imagination.

SO the Bible doesn't meet the qualification you mentioned above?

 

[Truth OT]

But why do you need to substantiate something that is obvious, doubtless, and fearlessly true, in your heart and mind?

Each individual has their own heart and mind. The hearts of men differ greatly on what they each find true and because of that statements like, "well that's true for me" pop up. In the interest of genuine truth that fits with the evidence reality provides, the aim is to be able to use reality to test whether or not what the individual promotes or believes in is actually backed by reality.

In summation, it's not about what's "true in one's heart and mind," it's about what is actually and objectively true personal beliefs notwithstanding.

 

[Truth OT]

Where do you suppose, He is building it,

According to scripture he is not building it. It was built 2000 years ago.

You being blind are asking to see, but your heart is wrong and until you change, you will remain blind!

Why do you make such a judgement?

 

[Episkopos]

SO the Bible doesn't meet the qualification you mentioned above?

Too many people have replaced the living God with the bible. So the bible is informative and points to God...but the bible itself (without the action of the Spirit) can actually take you down the wrong road. The road of self-justification....as we see so many believers take in these times. It is the glorification of self at the expense of truth.

 

[amadeus]

According to scripture he is not building it. It was built 2000 years ago.

The Church is people, the Body of Christ. Some of us now are part or becoming part of the Body of Christ. The work is unfinished.

"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." Col 1:18

"Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:" Col 1:24

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ." I Cor 12:12
"
But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him." I Cor 12:18

Why do you make such a judgement?

Such a judgment? Did you not judge yourself by taking the role of an unbeliever? To me, and I believe to God, every unbeliever is blind in the things of God.