Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? (2)

[Hillsage]

JOHANN I don't know why it sometimes doesn't put your name in the quote box below. You probably won't receive email reminders either, when it does this.

May I submit that we have received the "person" of the Holy Spirit and the gift? And here we are going to have to mention the Triune God.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

I have a question for you; You are obviously reading the KJV. I know that because the h is not an H in Eph 4:30. The first time I noticed that, I thought I'd found a spelling error in the printing of my KJV bible. But, this is what personal study has revealed to me. There are two holy spirits. One is the "holy spirit of Christ in me" and the other is The Holy Spirit of God upon me.

KJV EPH 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

KJV 1TH 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

Know this; You can not trust your bible to have the correct capitalization to prove to you that you are talking about the Spirit of God as opposed to the holy spirit FROM God.

KJV GEN 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, Also, RSV and ASV don't capitalize. WHY?
NKJV GEN 6:3 And the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, Also, NIV and NAS do capitalize. WHY?

I believe the translators knew that this spirit wasn't the Holy Spirit of God in the above verses. Read them in context and see if even you can't perceive that these verses are talking about the spirit of Christ which dwells in every born again believer. God bless the KJV for keeping this spelling TRUTH there for someone to come along and help them figure out what they did not know. And may God curse the false pen of the modern day scribes who cover up that which they do not understand, in order to teach that which is not really 'the truth'.

JER 8:8* "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

So, you just proved my point; Is "the spirit of Christ" "the Holy Spirit of God"? Or is the spirit of Christ, the holy Spirit which Jesus was born with?

3) "If so be the Spirit of God dwells in you," (eiper pneuma theou oikei en humin) "Since the Spirit of God dwells in your all;" both as individuals and the church which he indwells and empowers, Joh_16:7-11; 1Co_3:16; 1Co_6:19-20; Eph_4:30-32

So is this talking about the "Spirit of GOD dwelling in" YOU/pl or in THEE/sg? Only the KJV lets you know sg and pl with YE/YOU being plural and THEE/THOU being singular. In the verse above we are talking about the Spirit of God dwelling in the corporate body and the holy Spirit of Christ dwells in THEE/THOU.

5) "He is none of his," (houtos ouk estin autou) "This one (this kind of one) is not of him;" One without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, is unsaved and a child of the devil, does not belong to Christ, (except by right of creation) as all men do, Eze_18:4; Mal_2:10. But through the carnal, fleshly, inherent, enmity of the old nature against God, one is void of the Holy Spirit, does not have any preparation to enter heaven or belong to Christ; Eph_2:12; Eph_4:18.

Mere dorean, or the INDWELLING of the Holy Spirit--and Christ IN us John 17?
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The only 'spirit' dwelling in my body (singular) is the holy spirit of Christ. The Holy Spirit of GOD dwells in the "many membered body of Christ" which is US and not ME or THEE.

EPH 2:19 So then YE (Plural) are no longer strangers (Plural) and sojourners (pl), but you are fellow citizens (pl) with the saints (pl) and members of the household (Singular) of God, 20 built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure (Singular) is joined together and grows into a holy temple (Singular) in the Lord; 22 in whom YE (Plural) also are built into it for a dwelling place (Sg) of God in the Spirit.

There you have it; The Holy Spirit of God does not dwell in the individual bodies of men. His Holy Spirit dwells in the bodily temple of Christ.....which WE ARE.

Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Can you accept this?

Read Rom 8:11 in the GREEK Interlinear: But, if, the, spirit, of the (one), having raised, of the, Jesus, from, (the) dead, dwells, in, you, the (one), having raised, from, (the) dead, Christ Jesus, will quicken, also, the, mortal, bodies, of you, through, the, indwelling, of him, spirit, in, you.

Now transliterate that literal Greek above like I would in plain English;
If the spirit (Christ spirit) of the one raised up (Jesus body), dwells in you, he that raised up Jesus from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies through his Christ spirit that dwelleth in you.

I'm sure that what I've shared is probably new and equally deep. It's the only view that I have come to accept as the truth which is opposite of the divisive doctrinal view as taught by the traditional church.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:

The short answer is, "Yes."
I make a distinction between the indwelling Spirit that all believers have and the manifestations (gifts) of the Holy Spirit.

How can you make a distinction when it is of the same Holy Spirit?

1Co_12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

1Co_12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

1Co_12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

Not different Spirits, different applications, manifestations, uses, motivations, understandings, experiences.

 

[Johann]

St. SteVen said:

The short answer is, "Yes."
I make a distinction between the indwelling Spirit that all believers have and the manifestations (gifts) of the Holy Spirit.

Not different Spirits, different applications, manifestations, uses, motivations, understandings, experiences.

I didn't say different Spirits-Plural-same Holy Spirit

 

[Johann]

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? (redirect)

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? Just to be clear, I do not question whether the believers in Samaria had received the "indwelling" Spirit when they believed. They were missing something else. Acts 8:14-17 NIV When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that...

www.christianityboard.com

In Acts 8:12 we read of a group of Samaritans who “believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, [and] they were baptized, both men and women.” However, when we get to Acts 8:16, we find that “the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” We understand, based on passages such as 1 Corinthians 12:13, that Christians receive the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation. How was it that the Samaritans whom Philip evangelized did not receive the Holy Spirit?

First, it is good to remember the book of Acts is a history of how God started the church. It is the record of the transition between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, and much of what we see in Acts relates to that transition. The Samaritans’ manner of receiving the Spirit should be taken for what it is—an accurate account of what happened in their case. It should not be construed as normative in every case. The believing Samaritans had been baptized in water, but, for God’s own reasons, they had not yet been baptized in the Spirit.

Second, we should note that the Spirit did come upon the Samaritans (Acts 8:14–17), but not until the apostles Peter and John were present. There are some good reasons why God waited until Peter and John were present before He sent the Holy Spirit upon the Samaritans:

1) Jesus had given Peter the “keys to the kingdom” (Matthew 16:19). Peter was present—and was the main spokesman—at Pentecost (Acts 2), when the Spirit was given to the Jews. Peter was present in Samaria (Acts 8), when the Spirit was given to the Samaritans. And Peter was present in Cornelius’s house (Acts 10), when the Spirit was given to the Gentiles. Jesus used Peter to “open the door” to each of these people groups.

2) The church was to be “built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets” (Ephesians 2:20). Philip the evangelist had been a deacon in the Jerusalem church, but he was not one of the twelve apostles. Peter and John needed to be in Samaria for the “official” start of the Samaritan church, just as they had been in Jerusalem for the start of the Jewish church.

3) The presence of Peter and John kept the early church unified. Remember, there was great animosity between Jews and Samaritans (John 4:9). If the church in Samaria had begun on its own, with no connection to the “Jewish” church, the church in Jerusalem would never have accepted it. The Samaritans were known historically as corruptors of Judaism (John 4:20). So God made sure that Peter and John, apostles and Jews from Jerusalem, were present to witness the gift of the Spirit given to the Samaritans. God’s message: the church in Samaria was no heretical start-up. The Samaritans were part of the same church that had been started in Jerusalem, and they were filled with the same Spirit (see Galatians 3:28). Peter and John were eyewitnesses. Their testimony was clear: what happened in Samaria was not a separate religious movement. In this way, God prevented the early church from immediately dividing into different sects.

The Lord took pains to ensure the unity of the early church. Jesus had commanded the gospel to be preached in Samaria (Acts 1:8). Philip the evangelist obeyed that command, and God blessed. Whatever animosity existed between the Jews and the Samaritans was overcome by the unity of the Spirit. The church today should continue to “make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace” (Ephesians 4:3).

Why had the believers in Samaria not received the Holy Spirit (Acts 8)? | GotQuestions.org

Why had the believers in Samaria not received the Holy Spirit (Acts 8)? Why did the believers in Acts 8 have to wait for Peter and John to come before they could receive the Holy Spirit?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Johann]

KJV EPH 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Spirit of promise
Strictly, the promise. Denoting the promise as characteristic of the Holy Spirit: the Spirit which was announced by promise. See Act_2:16 sqq.; Joe_2:28; Zec_12:10; Isa_32:15; Isa_44:3; Joh_7:39; Act_1:4-8; Gal_3:14.


Luke 24:49+ “And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”

John 14:16; 17; “I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you

Acts 1:4+ Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me;

Galatians 3:14+ in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles (NOTE TO THE JEWS FIRST, THEN TO THE GREEKS), so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

In Romans Paul teaches us that ALL believers have received the Holy Spirit. In fact, the Spirit's indwelling of believers is a mark of one who belongs to Christ (cp 1Cor 3:16+, 1Cor 6:19+, 1Cor 6:20+).

However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. (Romans 8:9+)

 

[Johann]

So is this talking about the "Spirit of GOD dwelling in" YOU/pl or in THEE/sg? Only the KJV lets you know sg and pl with YE/YOU being plural and THEE/THOU being singular. In the verse above we are talking about the Spirit of God dwelling in the corporate body and the holy Spirit of Christ dwells in THEE/THOU.

οικει
G3611
V-PAI-3S
οἰκέω
to occupy a house--who is presently, actively, indicatively, second [you+plural] occupying our new man?

Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Joh 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Joh 17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

PS. Thanks for the heads up as to my name not appearing in a quote box--I don't know what to do-I stumbled upon your response, not receiving a notification

Just one question--are you monotheistic in your belief?

 

[Johann]

There you have it; The Holy Spirit of God does not dwell in the individual bodies of men. His Holy Spirit dwells in the bodily temple of Christ.....which WE ARE.

I gently would disagree here-

υμεις δε ουκ εστε εν σαρκι αλλ εν πνευματι ειπερ πνευμα θεου οικει εν υμιν ει δε τις πνευμα χριστου ουκ εχει ουτος ουκ εστιν αυτου

However, you are not in the basar [i.e., unregenerate] but in the Ruach Hakodesh, assuming that the Ruach Hakodesh of Hashem does indeed dwell in you--if anyone does not have the Ruach HaMoshiach, that person does not belong to Moshiach.
OJB

 

[Johann]

Now transliterate that literal Greek above like I would in plain English;
If the spirit (Christ spirit) of the one raised up (Jesus body), dwells in you, he that raised up Jesus from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies through his Christ spirit that dwelleth in you.

There Is a Close Relationship between Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit
In fact, their relationship is so close that the Bible says both the Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ, live in the believer. Paul wrote.

But you are not in the flesh; you are in the Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness (Romans 8:9, 10 NRSV).
Jesus, as well as the Spirit of God, dwells inside each believer.

The Holy Spirit was like having Jesus with them in a new and meaningful way. While the visible presence of Jesus Christ is no longer in the world, He is with believers in the Person of the Holy Spirit. This is the likely reason the Holy Spirit is known as the Spirit of Jesus of the Spirit of Christ.

We can go deeper-but I need to know if you are monotheistic in your beliefs.

 

[Johann]

JOHANN I don't know why it sometimes doesn't put your name in the quote box below. You probably won't receive email reminders either, when it does this.

Thanks for the heads up--don't know what to do or use the quote box feature-hence me not receiving many notifications.
Shalom
Johann

 

[Johann]

So, you just proved my point; Is "the spirit of Christ" "the Holy Spirit of God"? Or is the spirit of Christ, the holy Spirit which Jesus was born with?

Mat_3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


Mar_1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
Mar 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

What do you see here? I am sorry my response to you comes in bits and pieces-can you teach me to use the quote feature in a simple way?

Also--Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil--unless, of course, we want to debunk the Deity of Christ Jesus, and we don't want to do that!

 

[Raccoon1010]

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?

Just to be clear, I do not question whether the believers in Samaria had received
the "indwelling" Spirit when they believed. They were missing something else.

Acts 8:14-17 NIV
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria.
15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit,
16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here are the facts:
1) Those in Samaria were believers (had accepted the word of God)
2) They had received baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism)
3) But the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them. (had not yet "come on" any of them?)
4) Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. (prayed for them)

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?
They were water baptized believers in the Lord Jesus.
- There was evidence that they were believers. (as stated in the text)
- There was evidence that they had been water baptized. (as stated in the text)
- There was, however, no evidence that they had received the Holy Spirit. (as stated in the text)

What evidence were the Apostles looking for?

"Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit." - Acts 8:17 NIV
("When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit," - vs 15)
This text doesn't tell us. We'll have to look elsewhere.

Let me restate...
I do not question whether the believers in Samaria had received the "indwelling" Spirit when they believed.
They were missing something else. That something else is the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. (the Spirit "on" them)

Continued in Post #2

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? (redirect)

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? Just to be clear, I do not question whether the believers in Samaria had received the "indwelling" Spirit when they believed. They were missing something else. Acts 8:14-17 NIV When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that...

www.christianityboard.com

Typically the gift of the Holy Ghost comes thru the laying on of hands by priests in prayer. That is a typical religious ordinance performed by those in charge.

 

[St. SteVen]

What do you see here? I am sorry my response to you comes in bits and pieces-can you teach me to use the quote feature in a simple way?

Select each bit that you want to quote. Select Quote for each bit. Just as I have here.

Mat_3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Go to the bottom, that is near the bottom, of the page and use the New Post box to insert your quoted bits.

Mar_1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
Mar 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Select Insert Quotes.

Also--Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil--unless, of course, we want to debunk the Deity of Christ Jesus, and we don't want to do that!

You can even rearrange them by dragging them around. (up or down) Before you hit Post.

 

[Hillsage]

Mat_3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Mar_1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
Mar 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

What do you see here? I am sorry my response to you comes in bits and pieces-can you teach me to use the quote feature in a simple way?

What I see in Matt 3:16 and Mark 1:10 is that the Holy Spirit of God like a dove was "lighting UPON him" and not 'in him'. Can you show me a verse anywhere saying the 'Holy Spirit' of God was IN Jesus?

Scriptures pertaining to Jesus and confirming where the Holy Spirit of God was regarding him.

MAT 12:18 "Behold, my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved with whom my soul is well pleased. I will put my Spirit UPON him,

LUK 3:22 and the Holy Spirit descended UPON him in bodily form, as a dove,

LUK 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is UPON me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor.

JOH 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining ON him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Scriptures pertaining to us and where the Holy Spirit/Ghost was.

JOEL 2:29 Even upon the menservants and maidservants in those days, I will pour out my spirit.
LUK 2:25 Now there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon, and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him.

THIS WAS STILL THE OT AND SPEAKS OF THE SAME PLACEMENT THEN THAT WE HAVE AFTER PENTECOST.

ACT 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you;

ACT 2:17 'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh,

ACT 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

ACT 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them;
ACT 11:15 "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning.

1PE 4:14 If you are reviled for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.

Also--Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil--unless, of course, we want to debunk the Deity of Christ Jesus, and we don't want to do that!

Your Mat 4:1 verse says "Jesus was to be tempted of the devil". But scripture also says;

JAM 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Explain this from your Deity perspective.

 

[Johann]

What I see in Matt 3:16 and Mark 1:10 is that the Holy Spirit of God like a dove was "lighting UPON him" and not 'in him'. Can you show me a verse anywhere saying the 'Holy Spirit' of God was IN Jesus?

Scriptures pertaining to Jesus and confirming where the Holy Spirit of God was regarding him.

MAT 12:18 "Behold, my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved with whom my soul is well pleased. I will put my Spirit UPON him,

LUK 3:22 and the Holy Spirit descended UPON him in bodily form, as a dove,

LUK 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is UPON me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor.

JOH 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining ON him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Scriptures pertaining to us and where the Holy Spirit/Ghost was.

JOEL 2:29 Even upon the menservants and maidservants in those days, I will pour out my spirit.
LUK 2:25 Now there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon, and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him.

THIS WAS STILL THE OT AND SPEAKS OF THE SAME PLACEMENT THEN THAT WE HAVE AFTER PENTECOST.

ACT 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you;

ACT 2:17 'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh,

ACT 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

ACT 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them;
ACT 11:15 "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning.

1PE 4:14 If you are reviled for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.


Your Mat 4:1 verse says "Jesus was to be tempted of the devil". But scripture also says;

JAM 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Explain this from your Deity perspective.

I think I have asked you 3x or more if you are monotheistic in your beliefs--and from a glance it would seem you quote extensively from the gospels and not the 13 Pauline writings?

 

[David in NJ]

The questions remain.
- Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?
- Why didn't the disciples in Ephesus receive the Holy Spirit when they believed?

In both cases the laying on of hands was required.

Did anyone find the answer to your question(s).

i am not able to read thru all the posts.

 

[Hillsage]

I think I have asked you 3x or more if you are monotheistic in your beliefs--and from a glance it would seem you quote extensively from the gospels and not the 13 Pauline writings?

I quote the whole bible, whenever it applies.
Ever hear of the Shema?

DEU 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Not sure why your 'question' keeps you from answering my posts though. Monotheistic, isn't even a word in the bible. The church fought for 400 years over the trinity before finally coming to their 'theological' conclusions. So if you'd lived in the first 400 years after Jesus, I can't help but wonder if you would have this same failure to answer questions of believers then, based upon your issue concerning monotheism?

 

[David in NJ]

I quote the whole bible, whenever it applies.
Ever hear of the Shema?

DEU 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Not sure why your 'question' keeps you from answering my posts though. Monotheistic, isn't even a word in the bible. The church fought for 400 years over the trinity before finally coming to their 'theological' conclusions. So if you'd lived in the first 400 years after Jesus, I can't help but wonder if you would have this same failure to answer questions of believers then, based upon your issue concerning monotheism?

Deut 6:4 = Elohim is mentioned 3x

God/Elohim is mentioned 3x throughout Scripture

Just like "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness."

 

[David in NJ]

I think I have asked you 3x or more if you are monotheistic in your beliefs--and from a glance it would seem you quote extensively from the gospels and not the 13 Pauline writings?

Good Morning Johann,
Deut 6:4 = Elohim/God is mentioned 3x

God/Elohim is mentioned 3x throughout Scripture

Just like "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness."

 

[Hillsage]

Deut 6:4 = Elohim is mentioned 3x

God/Elohim is mentioned 3x throughout Scripture

Just like "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness."

Maybe I'm just speaking for me, but I'm not so sure that I'm not speaking for Johann too.

Personally, I'm not following what you are saying???? Elohim is mentioned 2250 times in the OT.
Where do you get "3X" in verse 6:4? I only see 1X. Just like it is in verse 1,2,3,4,5.....Elohim is in each verse 1X?????

And you also need to unpack just exactly how that point ties in with your "Let US make man in OUR image...."
If you're making a point, you really need to elaborate a bit more for me.

 

[David in NJ]

Not following what you are saying???? Elohim is mentioned 2250 times in the OT.
Where do you get "3X" in verse 6:4? I only see 1X. Just like it is in verse 1,2,3,4,5.....Elohim is in each verse 1X?????

And you also need to unpack just exactly how that point ties in with your "Let US make man in OUR image...."
If you're making a point, you really need to elaborate a bit more for me.

Elohim is Plural

Then God
אֱלֹהִ֔ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God

Genesis 1:26 "Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; = 3x

Same as the SHEMA - Deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! = 3x