Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? (2)

[St. SteVen]

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?

Just to be clear, I do not question whether the believers in Samaria had received
the "indwelling" Spirit when they believed. They were missing something else.

Acts 8:14-17 NIV
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria.
15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit,
16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here are the facts:
1) Those in Samaria were believers (had accepted the word of God)
2) They had received baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism)
3) But the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them. (had not yet "come on" any of them?)
4) Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. (prayed for them)

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?
They were water baptized believers in the Lord Jesus.
- There was evidence that they were believers. (as stated in the text)
- There was evidence that they had been water baptized. (as stated in the text)
- There was, however, no evidence that they had received the Holy Spirit. (as stated in the text)

What evidence were the Apostles looking for?

"Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit." - Acts 8:17 NIV
("When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit," - vs 15)
This text doesn't tell us. We'll have to look elsewhere.

Let me restate...
I do not question whether the believers in Samaria had received the "indwelling" Spirit when they believed.
They were missing something else. That something else is the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. (the Spirit "on" them)

Continued in Post #2

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? (redirect)

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? Just to be clear, I do not question whether the believers in Samaria had received the "indwelling" Spirit when they believed. They were missing something else. Acts 8:14-17 NIV When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[St. SteVen]

Continued from Post #1

What is the Baptism with the Holy Spirit, and what are the evidences?
Yes, evidences. Speaking in tongues was not the only evidence according to the book of Acts.

What is the Baptism with the Holy Spirit

Luke 3:16 NIV
John answered them all, “I baptize you with[a] water. But one who is more powerful than I will come,
the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with[b] the Holy Spirit and fire.

Acts 1:4-5 NIV
... “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.
5 For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[b] the Holy Spirit.”

Evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit

Acts 2:4 NIV
All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began
to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them.

Acts 2:11 NIV
(both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—
we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”

Acts 10:45-47 NIV
The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that
the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
46 For they heard them speaking in tongues[a] and praising God. Then Peter said,
47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water.
They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

Acts 19:6 NIV
When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them,
and they spoke in tongues[a] and prophesied.

 

[St. SteVen]

Continued from Post #2

Summary statement

The evidences for the Baptism with the Holy Spirit were manifestations of the Holy Spirit.
Therefore, I would expand the list of possible evidences of Holy Spirit baptism to any manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
The best source for manifestations of the Spirit is found in 1 Corinthians chapter twelve.

1 Corinthians 12:7-11 NIV
Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b] 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

 

[St. SteVen]

Why didn't the disciples in Ephesus receive the Holy Spirit when they believed?

Text below.

What caused the Apostle Paul to question them?
What evidence was he looking for that he did not see in them?
They were disciples, and he recognized them as believers.

At what point did they receive the Holy Spirit? (according to this text)
Paul laid hands on them (prayed) after their water baptism. (after)
What was the evidence? They spoke in tongues and prophesied.
Twelve of them. (12 men/families)

Acts 19:1-7 NIV
While Apollos was at Corinth,
Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus.
There he found some disciples 2 and asked them,
“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[a] you believed?”
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance.
He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”
5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them,
and they spoke in tongues[b] and prophesied.
7 There were about twelve men in all.

 

[Randy Kluth]

What is the Baptism with the Holy Spirit, and what are the evidences?

What a great subject! I've belonged to the family of Pentecostals for more than 50 years, and yet, having been raised a Lutheran, I apply a more critical view of this than most Pentecostals. I place a premium on the truths of this Baptism because it reflects a whole experience of the Christian--indeed it is essential to the living out of a true Christian life.

Christianity is not just a slavish following of the commandments of Christ, anymore than the Jewish existence BC was supposed to be lived out by slavishly following the Law of Moses. In both instances, faith was the essential ingredient, and that required a total commitment to the covenant in play. It was not just obedience--it was love. And being love, it was a relationship, and not just obedience to law.

The Christian can follow law, and completely ignore the relationship. In emphasizing only obedience, the whole essence of faith is lost, because faith implies faithfulness, a faithfulness to the One whose covenant it is. Just keeping laws is not the full scope of keeping His Word. His Word is living and always active in the heart, and not just written down on scrolls.

Consider the lawyer. He is concerned about using the law to achieve his ends. But he is less concerned about justice than about using the law to prosecute or to defend. True faith in a judicial system requires adherence not just to his job to prosecute or defend, but more, to ensure actual justice takes place.

In the same way, our job as Christians is not just to follow specific commands, whether following rituals like Baptism and Communion, or in giving money to the poor. Rather, we are to be motivated by Christ's love in our heart, so that *everything* we do is the outworking of a total commitment to Christ.

It is this total commitment to Christ's Word in our heart that paves the way for this Baptism. It is the guarantee that we have made a full commitment so that we live out who Christ is in our own lives, and replace the previous commitment to the Law of Moses with a new Law--the Law of Christ. And that is that Christ lives in our heart by grace, enabling us to display Christ despite our unworthiness. We do not commit to the Laws of Moses, designed to temporarily purify us. Rather, we have already been purified by receiving, through grace, Christ in our hearts, when we follow his love.

I do not agree that Tongues is the essential evidence of the Baptism. It was just the way God determined to initially introduce the Baptism, which was intended to be a display of the replacement of following the Law with following Christ alone. In the same way, leaders in Israel were able to initially prophesy when God distributed new leadership to them (Num 11.25). But afterwards, they did not all display this gift.

In the same way, after Pentecost, in which all spoke in tongues, not all spoke in tongues later. Paul said it was a matter of individual gifting. The essential thing is to recognize, after we have made a full commitment, and have received the Holy Spirit, that we should follow Christ and let the Holy Spirit determine who we are and what gifts we have. There is no "one gift per person." We simply are individuals, as God has created us. And we are to use those gifts as the Holy Spirit gifts us.

Baptism of the Spirit is not a 2nd or 3rd work of Grace. John the Baptist indicated the Baptism of the Spirit is the Christian Baptism that Christ came to bring. There is no other. Water Baptism is just symbolic of the same, that we fully commit to Christ. And we do that by completely committing to the ways of Christ's Spirit.

 

[St. SteVen]

Baptism of the Spirit is not a 2nd or 3rd work of Grace. John the Baptist indicated the Baptism of the Spirit is the Christian Baptism that Christ came to bring. There is no other. Water Baptism is just symbolic of the same, that we fully commit to Christ. And we do that by completely committing to the ways of Christ's Spirit.

Can you unpack that a bit more?
Jesus' disciples were baptizing before Pentecost. Wasn't that water baptism?

John 4:1-3 ESV
Now when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John
2 (although Jesus himself did not baptize, but only his disciples), 3 he left Judea and departed again for Galilee.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Can you unpack that a bit more?
Jesus' disciples were baptizing before Pentecost. Wasn't that water baptism?

John 4:1-3 ESV
Now when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John
2 (although Jesus himself did not baptize, but only his disciples), 3 he left Judea and departed again for Galilee.

Yes, John the Baptist indicated that a better baptism was coming, something Water Baptism merely symbolizes. As such, the true Christian Baptism is the Spirit Baptism. But Christians continue to practice Water Baptism to symbolize the Spirit Baptism that they have chosen to embrace. It is, as such, a kind of initiation ceremony, making public their choice to follow Christ. And it is a witness to the public of the Spirit Baptism they intend to follow.

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes, John the Baptist indicated that a better baptism was coming, something Water Baptism merely symbolizes. As such, the true Christian Baptism is the Spirit Baptism. But Christians continue to practice Water Baptism to symbolize the Spirit Baptism that they have chosen to embrace. It is, as such, a kind of initiation ceremony, making public their choice to follow Christ. And it is a witness to the public of the Spirit Baptism they intend to follow.

Okay, interesting.
So, in the book of Acts, would you read "baptism" as Baptism with the Holy Spirit, unless water was specifically mentioned? ???
And what would you make of the story of Philip and the Ethiopian Eunuch?

And as it relates to this topic, those in Samaria and Ephesus.

Those in Samaria had received baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism) ???
Same in Ephesus. Assuming "baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus" is water baptism. ???
In both cases, the laying on of hands followed?

Acts 8:36 ESV
And as they were going along the road
they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water!
What prevents me from being baptized?”[a]

 

[Randy Kluth]

Okay, interesting.
So, in the book of Acts, would you read "baptism" as Baptism with the Holy Spirit, unless water was specifically mentioned? ???
And what would you make of the story of Philip and the Ethiopian Eunuch?

And as it relates to this topic, those in Samaria and Ephesus.

Those in Samaria had received baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism) ???
Same in Ephesus. Assuming "baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus" is water baptism. ???
In both cases, the laying on of hands followed?

Acts 8:36 ESV
And as they were going along the road
they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water!
What prevents me from being baptized?”[a]

Most of what is declared in Acts has to do with Water Baptism, not as if it is the Christian Baptism that John the Baptist referred to, but only as a symbolic act representing that. Water Baptism was important as an indication that a transition was taking place from the Law, which brought condemnation, to Christ alone, who brings Eternal Life.

Spirit Baptism is, by definition, Eternal Life. It is living in Christ without any reference to autonomous living and any type of self-justification. Water Baptism does not justify--it merely testifies to others what we believe, that living in Jesus alone brings justification.

 

[St. SteVen]

Spirit Baptism is, by definition, Eternal Life. It is living in Christ without any reference to autonomous living and any type of self-justification. Water Baptism does not justify--it merely testifies to others what we believe, that living in Jesus alone brings justification.

Do you view the Baptism with the Holy Spirit as a subsequent experience to conversion? (belief/confession/repentance)
I differentiate between the indwelling Spirit that every believer has and the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Which, in fact, is what this topic is about.

 

[Hillsage]

Most of what is declared in Acts has to do with Water Baptism, not as if it is the Christian Baptism that John the Baptist referred to, but only as a symbolic act representing that. Water Baptism was important as an indication that a transition was taking place from the Law, which brought condemnation, to Christ alone, who brings Eternal Life.

Spirit Baptism is, by definition, Eternal Life. It is living in Christ without any reference to autonomous living and any type of self-justification. Water Baptism does not justify--it merely testifies to others what we believe, that living in Jesus alone brings justification.

Curious as to why you think the baptism of John was just symbolic. Scripture says it was "a baptism from heaven" Matt 21:5, and it was "a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins." Mark 1:4 Nothing said about symbolism IMO. And “repentance from dead works” is one of the first foundational doctrines necessary to the foundation of our faith according to Heb 6:1,2.

 

[strepho]

I'll make it easy. Gods Elect have holy spirit. And the kings and queens of the ethnos, called gentile nation's. Thier both equally equivalent. Both have the holy spirit, the election and kings, queens of gentile nation's. Revelation 21:24. And the nations of them which are saved walk in the light of it. And the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honor into it. The kings and queens of ethnos, will be leaders to thier designated people. Get the picture. The gentiles have their own kings. But their still subject to God. Isaiah chapter 65;9. And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of judah an inheritor of My mountains; and Mine Elect shall inherit it, and My servants shall dwell there. I documented this. God's election, and kings and queens of the ethnos will be in God's kingdom, they have holy spirit.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Do you view the Baptism with the Holy Spirit as a subsequent experience to conversion? (belief/confession/repentance)
I differentiate between the indwelling Spirit that every believer has and the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Which, in fact, is what this topic is about.

I do realize what the topic is about. I stated my difference with your position is that Spirit Baptism is *not* a 2nd Work of Grace, is not subsequent to Salvation. However, I admit that it does look like this at times--it looked like it in my own life, having been raised a Christian, backsliding in adolescence, and later coming into a fuller experience with a recommitment to Christian living.

But I use different words to avoid confusion. I call this coming to "know the way of God more fully," which is what Apollos had to experience.

Acts 18.24 Meanwhile a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures. 25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord, and he spoke with great fervor and taught about Jesus accurately, though he knew only the baptism of John. 26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.

Apollos had been instructed in Christianity, but had not made a complete conversion from the Law to Christianity. That is, he had not yet been Spirit baptized. Christianity is more than just knowledge--it is following the living Christ in a personal relationship with God. Spirit Baptism comes when we get beyond the "Baptism of John."

But the Baptism of John is not the same thing as Christian Water Baptism. The Baptism of John is Water Baptism under the Law, prior to embracing Christ for Salvation.

Apollos was still living as if Christianity was a set of rules, rather than a personal relationship with Christ. Anyway, that's the way I see it. I'm open to correction, if need be?

Many people today are nominal Christians, and I think I was one. Spirit Baptism comes when we make a complete commitment to Christ in the Spirit. That's different from merely following rules. It is following the Spirit in our heart, to ensure that we do is always in accordance with Christ's love.

 

[St. SteVen]

Anyway, that's the way I see it. I'm open to correction, if need be?

The forerunner and Jesus himself pointed to the outpouring at Pentecost as the definition of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.
In both Samaria and Ephesus the Apostles were looking for evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit, which they did not see.
At the laying on of hands (prayer for them to receive the Baptism with the Holy Spirit) they saw the evidence they were looking for.
Even at the house of Cornelius we see this declaration... (vs 47)

Acts 10:44-47 NIV
While Peter was still speaking these words,
the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished
that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
46 For they heard them speaking in tongues[a] and praising God.Then Peter said,
47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water.
They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

 

[Randy Kluth]

The forerunner and Jesus himself pointed to the outpouring at Pentecost as the definition of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.
In both Samaria and Ephesus the Apostles were looking for evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit, which they did not see.
At the laying on of hands (prayer for them to receive the Baptism with the Holy Spirit) they saw the evidence they were looking for.
Even at the house of Cornelius we see this declaration... (vs 47)

Acts 10:44-47 NIV
While Peter was still speaking these words,
the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished
that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
46 For they heard them speaking in tongues[a] and praising God.Then Peter said,
47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water.
They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

Yes, my Pentecostal friends and compatriots all believe that Tongues remain the central evidence that one has received the Holy Spirit. Though this certainly was the initial sign of Pentecost and immediately following I don't believe that it was ever *taught* that this should be so. In the same way, God demonstrated, visibly, that Moses' leadership could be distributed en mass to a number of other leaders by a visible demonstration of the gift of prophecy. And yet, it did not remain so once the initial sign of God's approval had been given.

Becoming spiritually reborn is supposed to be something that is visible, to confirm God's approval. That's why He provides Signs and Wonders. God used the gift of Tongues initially to demonstrate His approval of the beginning of the era of Christian Salvation and Christian living.

The NT experience was intended initially to be visibly different than just a slavish following of Christian rules. Apollos had to discover this by being told that his information was shallow and mechanical. He had to give himself over to the ways of the Spirit, as opposed to the rules of the Law of Moses. Both covenants required a greater spiritual depth than some realized, when the religious society had fallen away from true spiritual relationship with God.

Though the "initial sign of the Spirit Baptism as Tongues" was never *taught* in the NT Scriptures, it was certainly demonstrated to originate that way immediately after Pentecost. That is, it was a biblical sign that Pentecost had come, and was to be a visible difference from a dry religious experience exhibited by the Pharisees.

What is taught, however, in the New Testament is that Christian experience should be vibrant and manifestly spiritual. As we give our lives over to the Spirit, the carnal ways of men should be shown as more controlled and limited. There should be a differentiation of gifts--Tongues being only one of many. And Tongues is no longer to be for all, but only for those to whom the Spirit chooses to give them.

1 Cor 12.29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.

Just as we have individual callings and ministries, the Spirit distribute gifts individually as He wants. The initial evidence that NT living had come was especially manifested by the one gift of Tongues. But once the new era had been established, gifts began to be distributed "as the Spirit wants."

1 Cor 12.18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

Most Christians tend to hold to the doctrines of the religious tradition they belong to. This is just my experience and how I interpret it. We have to all individually answer to God as to how we observe and teach the Scriptures.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Curious as to why you think the baptism of John was just symbolic. Scripture says it was "a baptism from heaven" Matt 21:5, and it was "a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins." Mark 1:4 Nothing said about symbolism IMO. And “repentance from dead works” is one of the first foundational doctrines necessary to the foundation of our faith according to Heb 6:1,2.

I didn't mean to indicate that the Baptism of John was symbolic--I'm not sure I said that? What I meant to say, and perhaps did say, is that Christian Water Baptism is symbolic of Spirit Baptism. John's Baptism was not Christian Water Baptism. Rather, it was Baptism under the Law, a precursor to Spirit Baptism and to Christian Water Baptism, which represented Spirit Baptism.

If you don't understand what I'm saying, ask and I'll try to explain again. Many do not make the distinction I make between John's Baptism, Christian Water Baptism, and Spirit Baptism. Only Christian Water Baptism is symbolic, and it symbolizes Spirit Baptism, which is the only critical Christian Baptism, essential for Salvation. John's Baptism, being under the Law, could never save!

 

[St. SteVen]

Becoming spiritually reborn is supposed to be something that is visible, to confirm God's approval.

The questions remain.
- Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?
- Why didn't the disciples in Ephesus receive the Holy Spirit when they believed?

In both cases the laying on of hands was required.

 

[Hillsage]

I didn't mean to indicate that the Baptism of John was symbolic--I'm not sure I said that? What I meant to say, and perhaps did say, is that Christian Water Baptism is symbolic of Spirit Baptism. John's Baptism was not Christian Water Baptism. Rather, it was Baptism under the Law, a precursor to Spirit Baptism and to Christian Water Baptism, which represented Spirit Baptism.

If you don't understand what I'm saying, ask and I'll try to explain again. Many do not make the distinction I make between John's Baptism, Christian Water Baptism, and Spirit Baptism. Only Christian Water Baptism is symbolic, and it symbolizes Spirit Baptism, which is the only critical Christian Baptism, essential for Salvation. John's Baptism, being under the Law, could never save!

Your post #9 said; "Most of what is declared in Acts has to do with Water Baptism, not as if it is the Christian Baptism that John the Baptist referred to, but only as a symbolic act representing that."

So maybe I just didn't understand what you were saying here, but it sounds like you don't believe that the baptism of John related to the 3 NT baptisms of the Great Commission IMO . A commission which I believe consists of three baptisms. One from the Father, one from the Son and one from the Holy Spirit.

As for your view of "most of the Acts baptisms having to do with water baptism, I guess I don't see that at all. I only see 4 main verses dealing with H2O baptism...plus 2 other baptisms in a couple of these 4. And they are;

ACT 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent (first baptism into repentance), and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ (2nd baptism) for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive/lambano the gift of the (Gr = FROM THE) Holy Ghost (3rd baptism).

Lambano is the Greek word for a reception which requires you to reach out and GRAB or CATCH something. I relate it to a receiver on the football team. He has to run to a place to receive/lambano the ball. Not like a half back who has the ball passively received/decomai into his hands. Vine's Gr. dictionary says; There is a certain distinction between lambano and dechomai (more pronounced in the earlier, classical use), in that in many instances Lambano suggest a self-promoted taking, whereas dechomai more frequently indicated " a welcoming or an appropriating reception

ACT 8:12,16 But when they believed Philip preaching (I'm assuming repentance baptism came then) the things concerning the kingdom of God, AND the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, (H2O IMO) both men and women. …:16 (For as yet he (The Holy Spirit ) was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus).
IOW they only had repentance baptism and water baptism.

ACT 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received/lambano the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord….(The 2nd baptism in H2O IMO. because they already had received/lambano the supernatural power baptism from the person of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues FIRST. So getting the second baptism was the only one left of the three baptisms noted in the Great Commission.)
In this last incidence, I believe we see all three baptisms represented. First REPENTANCE, then WATER, then holy spirit power poured out from the person of The Holy Spirit.

ACT 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (H2O)
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
(this last baptism was one of supernatural holy spirit power from the person of The Holy Spirit.)

I'll stop there. We appear to have two different takes on this.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Your post #9 said; "Most of what is declared in Acts has to do with Water Baptism, not as if it is the Christian Baptism that John the Baptist referred to, but only as a symbolic act representing that."

To clarify, John's Baptism refers to Spirit Baptism. That is, John Baptized with Water was a prelude to the Baptism Christ had come to bring. John's repentance under the Law was meant to prepare for Christ's spiritual life apart from the Law.

Matt 3.11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

So maybe I just didn't understand what you were saying here, but it sounds like you don't believe that the baptism of John related to the 3 NT baptisms of the Great Commission IMO . A commission which I believe consists of three baptisms. One from the Father, one from the Son and one from the Holy Spirit.

As I said, John's Baptism was under the Law of Moses, indicating repentance in preparation for Spirit Baptism, which is the only true Christian Baptism.

Eph 4.4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

That "one baptism" is Christ's "Spirit Baptism." Water Baptism merely symbolized that. It displayed the intention to repent, just as John's Baptism expressed the intent to repent.

But Water Baptism for Christians is not repentance in order to return to obeying the Law. Rather, it is repentance for our entire human condition, which the Law exposed. It is a matter of casting our whole care completely on Christ and on his gift of righteousness.

As for your view of "most of the Acts baptisms having to do with water baptism, I guess I don't see that at all. I only see 4 main verses dealing with H2O baptism...plus 2 other baptisms in a couple of these 4. And they are;

ACT 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent (first baptism into repentance), and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ (2nd baptism) for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive/lambano the gift of the (Gr = FROM THE) Holy Ghost (3rd baptism).

Lambano is the Greek word for a reception which requires you to reach out and GRAB or CATCH something. I relate it to a receiver on the football team. He has to run to a place to receive/lambano the ball. Not like a half back who has the ball passively received/decomai into his hands. Vine's Gr. dictionary says; There is a certain distinction between lambano and dechomai (more pronounced in the earlier, classical use), in that in many instances Lambano suggest a self-promoted taking, whereas dechomai more frequently indicated " a welcoming or an appropriating reception

ACT 8:12,16 But when they believed Philip preaching (I'm assuming repentance baptism came then) the things concerning the kingdom of God, AND the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, (H2O IMO) both men and women. …:16 (For as yet he (The Holy Spirit ) was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus).
IOW they only had repentance baptism and water baptism.

ACT 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received/lambano the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord….(The 2nd baptism in H2O IMO. because they already had received/lambano the supernatural power baptism from the person of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues FIRST. So getting the second baptism was the only one left of the three baptisms noted in the Great Commission.)
In this last incidence, I believe we see all three baptisms represented. First REPENTANCE, then WATER, then holy spirit power poured out from the person of The Holy Spirit.

ACT 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (H2O)
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
(this last baptism was one of supernatural holy spirit power from the person of The Holy Spirit.)

I'll stop there. We appear to have two different takes on this.

I'm not sure what your points are? As I said, these references are largely to Water Baptism. Obviously, Spirit Baptism is supposed to precede Water Baptism, since Water Baptism symbolizes Christian Conversion, which supposedly has already taken place. One gets saved, and then gets Water Baptized as a public proclamation of what he has experienced and intends to live out.

As such, Water Baptism symbolizes what has already taken place. Some people get Water Baptized before they understand what total conversion really is. As such, they get Water Baptized before they are Spirit Baptized.

 

[St. SteVen]

To clarify, John's Baptism refers to Spirit Baptism. That is, John Baptized with Water as a prelude to the Baptism Christ had come to bring. John's repentance under the Law was meant to prepare for Christ's spiritual life apart from the Law.

So, what do you say is the practical application of this today? What is the Baptism with the Holy Spirit today?
If I wanted to receive the Baptism with the Holy Spirit today, how would I do that?

Does your definition of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit fit what Jesus described below?
And tell us what went wrong in Samaria and Ephesus. Thanks.

Acts 1:4-5 NIV
... “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.
5 For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[b] the Holy Spirit.”