Why I could personally never chose to be Catholic

[twinc]

well i guess you're already a member, and just the term "Catholic" has been appropriated out from under you

imho - it seems most Protestants have been spoken by a donkey[themselves] or other donkeys but sadly insulting the Holy Spirit by claiming His inspiration and guidance and not the indwelling of a donkey - twinc

 

[Jun2u]

Uhhhhh, first of all, "Written in this Book" refers only to REVELATION.

I will say it again, Catholics do not know how to read nor understand Scriptures, even after claiming their church is the pillar and ground of truth (which of course is a false statement).

The “book” in Revelation 22:18-19 refers to the WHOLE BIBLE.

As we study the Bible, we find from time to time God told Moses and Jeremiah “write this in a book.” Paul also stated he was commanded by Jesus to write all the things he learned... hence, his epistles to the churches. This is the methodology by which God communicated with mankind.

Aside from the above, the phenomenon of tongues, angel visitations, dreams, and visions, prophesied by Joel was also possible. But once the Bible was completed, these methods were no longer possible.

Actually, if we try to make it just the Book of Revelation, we would end up with the whole Bible anyway, because how can you keep the sayings of the Book of Revelation without having the rest of the Bible to tell us how to understand Revelation?

If we isolate the last book Revelation from the rest of the Bible, we would not know how to understand a great amount of it, but in order to keep the sayings and keep those things which are written in this book of prophecy….WE NEED THE Bible!!! Indeed the Bible is in view.

Furthermore, if we add a verse from the Book of Revelation, we would have added it to the whole Bible. In the same token, if we take away a verse in the Book of Revelation, we would have taken it out of the whole Bible.

You see??? The Book of Revelation cannot stand alone apart from the Bible!!!

Therefore, you will read Revelation 22 differently than I would because we always read what we consider the divine authority in light of the whole divine authority.

The most serious question facing christendom today is, “what is the divine authority that determines and structures the true Gospel?”

As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other Gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed (Galatians 1:8)

To God Be The Glory

 

[bbyrd009]

imho - it seems most Protestants have been spoken by a donkey[themselves] or other donkeys but sadly insulting the Holy Spirit by claiming His inspiration and guidance and not the indwelling of a donkey - twinc

rolleyes why not just call us all asses and get it over with, tc, sheesh
same story, diff dress imo

 

[Webers_Home]

-
One of Christ's characteristics, in which I have complete confidence, is that
he is conscientious about making his Father happy; thus he stated:

"The one who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, because I
always do what is pleasing to Him." (John 8:29)

Were Christ to fail in any way, any way at all, pleasing the one who sent
him. then it would be dishonest of Christ to claim to "always" please Him.
Christ might be able to claim pleasing the one who sent him a high
percentage of the time, but certainly not always.

Here is the will of the one who sent him.

"This is the will of the one who sent me; that I should not lose anything of
what He gave me." (John 6:39)

The one who sent Christ has given him sheep (John 10:27-30). Were Jesus
to lose one single head of those sheep— even just one —he would fail to
always please the one who sent him.

Regarding those sheep, Jesus stated:

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch
them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than
all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand." (John 10:28-29)

It has actually been posited that the sheep are an exception. In other words;
it's been posited that the sheep of their own free will can take themselves
out of Jesus' hand. But of course they can't because God's free will trumps
the sheep's free will.

"This is the will of the one who sent me; that I should not lose anything of
what He gave me." (John 6:39)

The posit is a vote of no-confidence in the good shepherd's determination to
succeed at pleasing the one who sent him; and reveals a belief that the
sheep have enough strength and cunning to overpower their shepherd and
run off.

Were the good shepherd only human, then I would be inclined to agree with
the posit that his sheep might get past him and run off. But the Bible
teaches that Christ is not only human, but also the divine architect of the
entire cosmos with all of its forms of life, matter, and energy. So then, the
good shepherd has at his disposal all the powers and abilities of the supreme
being to utilize in keeping the sheep right where he wants them to be.

Surely no one in a right mind would dare to suggest that sheep have
sufficient powers and abilities of their own at their disposal to overcome
Christ. Were that the case, the sheep would have no need of his services;
the sheep could shepherd themselves.

But even were the sheep to somehow manage to escape Christ's hand, they
would still have his Father's hand to contend with; and good luck getting
away from Almighty God!

Now, seeing as how the good shepherd has all the powers of the supreme
being at his disposal to keep the sheep, then it shouldn't take too much
more to persuade the sheep that it's okay to fully trust in this next
statement of his.

I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved." (John 10:9)

Were Christ a so-so shepherd; then he wouldn't dare say "will be" saved;
no, he'd have to tone it down a bit and say "can be" saved. That would leave
him some room for error. But when Christ says "will be" he's claiming a
0.0% failure rate. That's how confident Christ is that he will lose nothing of
what his Father has given him.

"Upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of the netherworld shall
not prevail against it." (Matt 16:18)

/

 

[DPMartin]

Reasons why I could personally never chose to be Catholic:
Baptist prospective

1st of all, comparing spiritual things with spiritual, I feel that as old as the Roman Catholic Church is; it still has not worked out it's kinks.
- 1 Corinthians 2:13 (KJV Bible)

I feel like if I'm going to partake congregationally to worship, it is a absolute must that i am 100% comfortable with the Church and its Doctrines, all elements combined.
- Galatians 1:6-7 (of Galatians 1:1-12) (KJV Bible)

It is well known most Baptist have issues with Catholicism because of the Catholic claim of: transubstantiation. Within the ritual of a catholic mass, the pope holds a piece of bread, turns his back, and while his back is turned. Proclaims that it "literally" turns into the physical flesh of Christ.

3rdly, Christ is the head of the Church, There is absolutely no need for a Pope. It is opposite of scriptural and from what Iv heard, Pagan derived.
- 1 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV Bible)

God Bless you,
I have large hopes that you find a profitable King James Version Only proud and preaching Church near you & find the Bible way to Heaven.

actually today the Catholic Church has no problem with the KJV it may have in the past but not now.

as far as the "Catholicism" much of that has been added on since 325 AD but the Church as far as I know will not deny the Truth of God. but have a horrendous tradition of adding on things that are not scripturally sound and will not turn from teaching it. but that's true in most large protestant denominations but they didn't have over 1600 years of unquestioned, uncontested church authority to do so. if it was contested it could cost the protester their life in many cases. so the protestants could only get away with so much in maybe 500 yr.'s or even less, not like the Catholics could.

but like being in the world and even on this site you can see the believes trying to show Truth of God and then there's the pretenders to the belief by showing their judgements of good and evil as justified in their own judgement, and try in every way to force others to conform to their views, usually through guilt and accusation of behavior undesirable to them.

being raised Catholic there's much there of value, but to much to contend with that is contrary to scripture. it's true they have no excuse seeing they are the principle that assembled what is known as the new testament. therefore in principle they have agreed to its validity but continue with their own views contrary to what the NT says.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I will say it again, Catholics do not know how to read nor understand Scriptures, even after claiming their church is the pillar and ground of truth (which of course is a false statement).

The “book” in Revelation 22:18-19 refers to the WHOLE BIBLE.

As we study the Bible, we find from time to time God told Moses and Jeremiah “write this in a book.” Paul also stated he was commanded by Jesus to write all the things he learned... hence, his epistles to the churches. This is the methodology by which God communicated with mankind.

Aside from the above, the phenomenon of tongues, angel visitations, dreams, and visions, prophesied by Joel was also possible. But once the Bible was completed, these methods were no longer possible.

Actually, if we try to make it just the Book of Revelation, we would end up with the whole Bible anyway, because how can you keep the sayings of the Book of Revelation without having the rest of the Bible to tell us how to understand Revelation?

If we isolate the last book Revelation from the rest of the Bible, we would not know how to understand a great amount of it, but in order to keep the sayings and keep those things which are written in this book of prophecy….WE NEED THE Bible!!! Indeed the Bible is in view.

Furthermore, if we add a verse from the Book of Revelation, we would have added it to the whole Bible. In the same token, if we take away a verse in the Book of Revelation, we would have taken it out of the whole Bible.

You see??? The Book of Revelation cannot stand alone apart from the Bible!!!

Therefore, you will read Revelation 22 differently than I would because we always read what we consider the divine authority in light of the whole divine authority.

The most serious question facing christendom today is, “what is the divine authority that determines and structures the true Gospel?”

As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other Gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed (Galatians 1:8)
To God Be The Glory

What a perverse view of Scripture.

First of all - the Bible i NOT "a Book". It is a collection of BOOKS. Rev. 22:18-19 refers to the Book of Revelation - and NO other Book.

ALL of the Books of Scripture are Books unto themselves - which, together comprise the Written Word of God.
This should be FAR more evident to you Protestants, who reject SEVEN of the Books of the OT (Judith, Baruk, 1 & 2 Maccabbees, Wisdom, Tobit, Sirach and portions of Daniel and Esther).

 

[BreadOfLife]

The only reason I wouldn't "choose" to be one is because of the Mary thing.
But I respect them ...there are many good war stories where to priests and nuns were very brave in saving Jews and children.

But, I guess if God wrote with His finger on the wall...or spoke through a donkey to me...I would join the Catholic Church.

Hi Grace -
What is it about Mary that you object to?

 

[BreadOfLife]

BOL you fell off your high horse along time ago , your brain just hasnt noticed yet.

Eph_1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Col_1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence

and

Joh 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
Joh 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

tahts why Christ is our Head, He is our authority, your church has none but that it is given by those who have "given" themselves to it, And just like a man who is dived between teh country he will serve, you are at war with Christ and His church, a war already lost, just like a chicken with its head cut off, and the body still runs around not realising it is dead,

But you cant talk to brick walls they have no knowledge.

Sure, mjrhealth - whatever you say.

Now - let me know when you're ready to stop whining - and man-up to address the passages in post #49 . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

actually today the Catholic Church has no problem with the KJV it may have in the past but not now.

as far as the "Catholicism" much of that has been added on since 325 AD but the Church as far as I know will not deny the Truth of God. but have a horrendous tradition of adding on things that are not scripturally sound and will not turn from teaching it. but that's true in most large protestant denominations but they didn't have over 1600 years of unquestioned, uncontested church authority to do so. if it was contested it could cost the protester their life in many cases. so the protestants could only get away with so much in maybe 500 yr.'s or even less, not like the Catholics could.

but like being in the world and even on this site you can see the believes trying to show Truth of God and then there's the pretenders to the belief by showing their judgements of good and evil as justified in their own judgement, and try in every way to force others to conform to their views, usually through guilt and accusation of behavior undesirable to them.

being raised Catholic there's much there of value, but to much to contend with that is contrary to scripture. it's true they have no excuse seeing they are the principle that assembled what is known as the new testament. therefore in principle they have agreed to its validity but continue with their own views contrary to what the NT says.

Interesting.
A complete and total crock - but interesting, nonetheless, to see how far an anti-Catholic will go to re-invent history.

First of all - your moronic assertion that the Catholic Church has "no problem" with the KJV is comical, if not so tragically ignorant.
The KJV is Protestant version of Scripture missing SEVEN Books of the OT and portions of Daniel and Esther. Why would you make this ridiculous claim??

Secondly - the title of the Church (Catholic) has been in use since the end of the FIRST century. Why would you make the asinine charge that it didn't come about until AD 325??

Finally - your charge that the Catholic Church "adds" things that aren't Scriptural is preposterous, at best.
It certainly shows a lack of Scriptural knowledge. Care to elaborate??

 

[mjrhealth]

Sure, mjrhealth - whatever you say.

Now - let me know when you're ready to stop whining - and man-up to address the passages in post #49 . . .

weather for today, raging storms, a huge tempest on teh way,, violent winds as cyclone BOL with all its destruction passes by. Go finds teh truth BOL it will make you a better man.

 

[BreadOfLife]

weather for today, raging storms, a huge tempest on teh way,, violent winds as cyclone BOL with all its destruction passes by. Go finds teh truth BOL it will make you a better man.

Well, there has been quite a lull in the weather since I first asked you to address the Scripture verses I presented. You can dodge me - but you can't dodge God.

Avoiding the Truth doesn't make it "go away" . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

rolleyes why not just call us all asses and get it over with, tc, sheesh
same story, diff dress imo

You mean - the way Luther did with Catholics?

“If your Papist wishes to make a great fuss about the word "alone" (sola), say this to him: ‘Dr. Martin Luther will have it so and he says that a papist and an ASS are the same thing’.”

“Please do not give these ASSES any other answer to their useless braying about that word "sola" than simply ‘Luther will have it so, and he says that he is a doctor above all the papal doctors’."

“I know quite well how much skill, hard work, understanding and intelligence is needed for a good translation. They know it less than even the miller's ASS for they have never tried it.

“You tell me what a great fuss the Papists are making because the word alone is not in the text of Paul…say right out to him: ‘Dr. Martin Luther will have it so,’… I will have it so, and I order it to be so, and my will is reason enough. I know very well that the word 'alone' is not in the Latin or the Greek”


Yeah - real "godly" man . . .

 

[DPMartin]

Interesting.
A complete and total crock - but interesting, nonetheless, to see how far an anti-Catholic will go to re-invent history.

First of all - your moronic assertion that the Catholic Church has "no problem" with the KJV is comical, if not so tragically ignorant.
The KJV is Protestant version of Scripture missing SEVEN Books of the OT and portions of Daniel and Esther. Why would you make this ridiculous claim??

Secondly - the title of the Church (Catholic) has been in use since the end of the FIRST century. Why would you make the asinine charge that it didn't come about until AD 325??

Finally - your charge that the Catholic Church "adds" things that aren't Scriptural is preposterous, at best.
It certainly shows a lack of Scriptural knowledge. Care to elaborate??

I didn't say that KJV isn't different then the catholic collection of books did I? just because you're a raging idiotic that calls himself a catholic doesn't mean the catholic church as a whole has a problem with KJV. so you assume as usual you even comprehend the posting. also the church as it is understood as the church of the roman empire started in 325 or very near. words like idiot have been around for a long time and used for a long time, but that doesn't mean you were and idiot before you were born does it? you can mince words all you like, the whole word gets it but you.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yeah - real "godly" man . . .

well, i'm not interested in judging Luther either, BoL

 

[mjrhealth]

Well, there has been quite a lull in the weather since I first asked you to address the Scripture verses I presented. You can dodge me - but you can't dodge God.

Avoiding the Truth doesn't make it "go away" . . .

YEs we know BOL you are still here, you remind me of teh poor man and teh rich man. this bit.

Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

you have no concern for "truth" bol, you are a citizen of your church, which has being at war against our Lords church for years, and you have chosen teh side you are on, even if God did send all those murdered, persecuted by your church to you, you would not believe them. Teh truth has being set before you, and you despise it and reject it daily. That you will answer for.

Now to check for storm damage..

 

[BreadOfLife]

I didn't say that KJV isn't different then the catholic collection of books did I? just because you're a raging idiotic that calls himself a catholic doesn't mean the catholic church as a whole has a problem with KJV. so you assume as usual you even comprehend the posting. also the church as it is understood as the church of the roman empire started in 325 or very near. words like idiot have been around for a long time and used for a long time, but that doesn't mean you were and idiot before you were born does it? you can mince words all you like, the whole word gets it but you.

First of all - calm down.
You were wrong about the Catholic Church and the KJV - so own up to it and stop ranting.

The Catholic Church indeed has a problem with ANY publication that calls itself "The Bible" and jettisons Seven Books from it.
The Church wil always have a problem with this.

Finally - as to your fairy tale about when the Catholic Church began - you are conflating the Roman Empire with the Catholic Church.
Two different entities, my historically-bankrupt friend. The Catholic Church of today is the SAME Catholic Church that Ignatius of Antioch wrote about in his Letter to the Smyrnaeans, circa AD 107.

 

[BreadOfLife]

well, i'm not interested in judging Luther either, BoL

Hey - I'm just presenting what he himself wrote . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

YEs we know BOL you are still here, you remind me of teh poor man and teh rich man. this bit.

Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

you have no concern for "truth" bol, you are a citizen of your church, which has being at war against our Lords church for years, and you have chosen teh side you are on, even if God did send all those murdered, persecuted by your church to you, you would not believe them. Teh truth has being set before you, and you despise it and reject it daily. That you will answer for.

Now to check for storm damage..

I see. So, it's simply a matter of you not wanting to be humiliated by the fact that you cannot address the following verses in your attack on Church Authority . . .

Matt 16:18-19
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
I will give YOU the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; andwhatever YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. 18:15-18
"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, Whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever YOU loose on earth shall beloosed in heaven.

John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.

He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINEand declare it to YOU.

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins YOU FORGIVE are forgiven them, and whose sins YOU RETAIN are retained

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."


I totally understand your dilemma . . .

 

[bbyrd009]

Hey - I'm just presenting what he himself wrote . . .

i guess Luther prolly realized at some point that he had become the monster he sought to fight; i dunno.
As to how i might have responded to an RCC that had gone insane and was running amok, i cannot say

 

[BreadOfLife]

i guess Luther prolly realized at some point that he had become the monster he sought to fight; i dunno.
As to how i might have responded to an RCC that had gone insane and was running amok, i cannot say

It's actually not a case of the Church "going insane" - but a few people within the Church behaving badly.
This has been the case, however, since its inception. It started with Judas, when Jesus was just building His Church.