Why I must Die !

[Code_RED]

(Ricky W;20255)
A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiimFirstable, in the name of Allah (God) The Most High, i asking you to return to Allah (God) the Oneness God that there's nothing God beside Him and Muhammad s.a.w. His Prophet and Messenger, and stick on it with your soul and body.Now regarding on what you has questioned, are you the follower of Elohiym(G-d) ?If you are indeed His follower, then why don't you questioing Him also like He already state in the BIBLE. Please see these verses below euteronomy 13:6-9 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."2 Chronicles 15:13 "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman."Now, how can you explain that ex-muslim ?I think in the end, you will taking us(muslim-christian-Jews) to be Atheist, am i right ?Wallahu a'lam.
Wa'salam Ricky,I am not calling anyone an atheist. I myself do believe that there is God. I just don't choose to believe in Quran and Muhammed. I humbly request you to open your eyes and read and concentrate on the teachings of Islam. They are so barbaric.It is strange that to support my question in the light of Quran and hadith you choose to answer me from the Bible. Why?When I study the world's two biggest religions that is Christianity and Islam; I see lot has been implememnted in Quran from Bible which is the Old Testament. But if you read Bible from start till the end the whole message is different because Jesus was different. I asked christians and they say it's not that they don't believe in the Old Testament but New testament is equally important for it is the way of life of Jesus whom they believe is God. New and old both testaments are from God who reserves the right of Judgement. Also all the stonings and punishments in the Old Testament were ordered by the Creator and were carried out by men of faith. It makes more sense that the one who creates has the right on life and death.Whereas Muhammed himself on many occassions have not obeyed what was written in the Quran. Stonning in the case of adultery is one fine example and there are many more like treating your wives equally etc.The one who dose not obey God and reject His teachings is by definition a kafir. Think about it brother, what we have been taught.Answer my questions in the light of Islam from Quran, Hadith and Sunah.Peace,Code_RED

 

[Code_RED]

One more thing I would like to point out here to the best of my knowledge and please do correct me if I am wrong.NO RELIGION in the world BUT ISLAM has the Death Penalty for the one who rejects religion.A christian or a jew can choose to reject their own religion and adopt another. They will be judged by their God on the judgement day. One can clearly see that freedom and free-will are practised in these religions.Can you FORCE God by threatening life? What good then is that religion and what God is that God who first gives a person a brain to think and then choose to go against it's nature ! I ask God day and night, why did he gave me a brain to think? Things could have been easier if I were a machine. I would serve him till my battery lasted and he could choose to re-charge me or not. God answered my prayers. He said, He wants me with my will ! Tomorrow, even if I give in and convert back to islam because I feel threatened, what kind of a muslim I will be then when I don't want Him with my will?For me anything that is forced it's equal to rape. Is God a rapist?

 

[Code_RED]

(RobinD69;20302)
I am sorry but you are twisting the word by not clearly using the entire Bible.You are only using select verses to support your view.The OT referance was to stop what we are fighting with right now.If the original Hebrews had led their offspring in the ways of the Lord instead of being lazy,we would have no other religions.As for the NT referance,all who reject the true God will die,but not by mans hands but by Gods.
A compact reply full of wisdom. This was worth reading !Peace,Code_RED

 

[Jordan]

(Ricky W;20402)
A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiiim(theuperjag)
Well, if you have notice Ricky, I was not even close of attacking to be honest.
That is good if you are, but it is sigh that you aren't.However i respected of what you just said that above.(thesuperjag)
I was merely saying a fact that you guys are blinded from seeing the truth. And I was attacking the spirit of the antichrists.
You are not telling fact, but lie. I already show you, that you are lie agains me, my God, God of the Universe by saying on Him, Moon God, meanwhile we are not like the way you said, not event once cross in my mind. And thats you call FACT/TRUTH ? You are in deep believe of lie Jordan.(thesuperjag)
You see...My God and your god can not be the same God.
That's depent on how you saw and perception on it.(thesuperjag)
1. My God has a begotten Son.Your god, does not have a begotten Son.
Correct.(thesuperjag)
2. My God said that Jesus died on a cross.Your god said that Jesus didn't die on the cross, but Judas.
Show me the verse that Elohiym said that Jesus died on a cross ?And show me your proof that My God said that Judas was on the cross ?(thesuperjag)
3. My God can not change his mind, He has kept all of his promises. And the Son is the last thing we have. "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me"
If He is not change his mind, than why circumcise hasn't been release, meanwhile He said for everlasting covenant.17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcise.If your God don't change His mind, then why His Ordinances being replace by new one ?(thesuperjag)
Your god changes his mind to suit your prophet Muhammad own sinful, wicked desire.
Which one that state that ?(thesuperjag)
That's proof right there we do not worship the same God. One is alive, the other one is dead. One is truth, the other lies and contradict itself.
All contradict is in your Bible, Who living God ? You, no... you said your God DEADTH. And you already judge without learn it very well yet.(thesuperjag)
On another note...between the NIV, and KJV, The NIV is authored by Satan. I'll stick with Christ, who can not lie, nor did He sin. Not your wicked prophet.Love much, JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
Does Christ is the one who wrote the KJV ?Does KJV was GOD STAMP translation ? Or human do ?Christ cannot die, but at other place you said die

? And not just, your God also being Cursed. What a God.Wallahu a'lam.1. I am going to go answer the last one first. About the KJV, Did Christ write it? NO! Why? Because He is back in Heaven.The KJV is inspired Word of God. No man ever has copyright God's Words and no man can claim the truth, but only God.My God died in the flesh body (physical death) yet He is alive forevermore. He is not willingly that anyone should perish in Hell...but He will allow it, because mankind chose to be against God.2. I read enough from articles from both Muslims and Christians. Allah said to have # of lashes, Your wicked prophet went by-pass your god's laws, making your religion all based on your wicked prophet.And there is no contradictions on my God, since my God can not tell a lie, nor can my God sin. But your Qu'ran is full of contradictions and hatred. I have a loving Father that cares about you so much that He wants to save you from the second death.3. I'll answer the one in yellow...The one that my God, saying that He died on a cross...but I am well aware of that you will not understand as you have not yet the Spirit.Genesis 3:15 - And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.The one in orange...my bad I made a simple error on my knowledge, It was your muslim brothers (not the one next door, but Islam) that says that my God did not die on the cross, but Judas. But still, Islam and your book is full of flaws.4. The one you quoted Genesis 17...the seed of Abraham is still growing. The father of all nations, is still growing. It never stops...This is a covenant, not a LAW or an ORDINANCES.I'll take my Father's Words anyday over men's idol. This is how much YHWH loves you.Love much, JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.

 

[Christina]

Ricky circumcision is released now only circumcision of the heart is in effect physical circumcision is no longer required. All the statues and ordinances are fulfilled from physical to spiritual. You should understand that we have a New testament in effect isn't that what Islam has done ? You no longer follow the Law of God given your ancestors you instead follow Mohammad. You say Abraham was both our ancestor yet Abraham never broke the Ten Laws and Mohammad did. Yet Islam choose's to follow the Law breaker rather than the Law giver. this is the basis of my conclusion if Allah is God why are not you told to follow the laws of God? Why does Mohammad say its ok to break Gods Law if man decides he has a reason. When God says thou shall not Kill ,thou shall not lie Mohammad says you can do these under certain circumstances. Jesus says you can not break Gods laws under any circumstances. So to us it seems Mohammad has set himself above God.Our God of the bible loves you wants your love in return thats allMohammand says to hate us and all other religions asks you to die for that hate.The God of the Bible says every human being is his child and to kill even one self is to kill his child. and grieves him. Islam says you should kill yourself and others to recieve virgins and wine how long would this make a person happy ??eternity? This is like going to a party it provides no permanant happienessOur god says follow my Laws and I will give you everlasting life and I will be your God and love you

 

[Ricky W]

A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim

(Code_RED)
Wa'salam Ricky,
You should say Assalam or at the end say Wassalam, not using apostrof which usually will point to arabic letter 'ain.
I am not calling anyone an atheist. I myself do believe that there is God. I just don't choose to believe in Quran and Muhammed. I humbly request you to open your eyes and read and concentrate on the teachings of Islam. They are so barbaric.
You said Islam was barbaric, but by the time i show what was God has done according to Bible you dumb it. Hey bro who do you think the one who not open an eyes ?
It is strange that to support my question in the light of Quran and hadith you choose to answer me from the Bible. Why?
Why, so you can open your eyes, that if God will those what you call with Barbaric, that is the fact. But if you can see the why God command those law, then you'll see, that is what it is should do. But it's too bad you can not see it clearly rather then call me to open my eyes. However i still grant you thank you for remind me.
When I study the world's two biggest religions that is Christianity and Islam; I see lot has been implememnted in Quran from Bible which is the Old Testament. But if you read Bible from start till the end the whole message is different because Jesus was different.
The whole message in the bible especially the OT was not all talking about Jesus, some of them perhaps yes, but not all. The point of the BIBLE if you read was talking about the ONENESS GOD, WHICH IS NOT TAKING FORM WHAT IN THE EARTH AND IN THE HEAVEN. That's the most point in the OLD TESTAMENT. Event Jesus him self clearly state that.
I asked christians and they say it's not that they don't believe in the Old Testament but New testament is equally important for it is the way of life of Jesus whom they believe is God.
See, you are believe on God because of men(christians), not because GOD Him self. If you use your logical mind, as the consequences on comparing the OT and NT, you are dump an OT then accept the NT. The OT you are only considered that was an OLD GOD COMMANDED. Nothing then that, if you are really read the whole bible, then you should know that GOD WASN'T CHANGE WHAT HE ALREADY BEEN GIVEN OR COMMANDED. And that's why from God giving command to Abraham until the new Law of Moses, GOD still consistence of what his commanded. But with NT, the GOD LAW became perish. I said NT not Gospel.
New and old both testaments are from God who reserves the right of Judgement. Also all the stonings and punishments in the Old Testament were ordered by the Creator and were carried out by men of faith. It makes more sense that the one who creates has the right on life and death.
You are still not answering or response on what i bring. If you can questioned muslim by giving those verses, why don't you do the samething on the verse that i brought from the bible. Just to keep remind of you, in the bible the one who should do stoning was HUMAN, not GOD. BUT on the LAW and ORDER by GOD.
Whereas Muhammed himself on many occassions have not obeyed what was written in the Quran. Stonning in the case of adultery is one fine example and there are many more like treating your wives equally etc.
I think that was because of you misperception i guess.
The one who dose not obey God and reject His teachings is by definition a kafir. Think about it brother, what we have been taught.
Have you think on your self brother ?
Answer my questions in the light of Islam from Quran, Hadith and Sunah.Peace,Code_RED
Just think on the response on how i gave you those verses, the answer was there, unless you are not willing to open your eyes and mind

.Wallahu a'lam.

 

[Ricky W]

A'udzubilllaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmanirrohiim(Code_RED)
One more thing I would like to point out here to the best of my knowledge and please do correct me if I am wrong.NO RELIGION in the world BUT ISLAM has the Death Penalty for the one who rejects religion.
??? If you already been Islam then go back to previously, then you got death penalty, if not then so i concern we are not forcing our religions in the meaning to kill to whom that rejecting.
A christian or a jew can choose to reject their own religion and adopt another. They will be judged by their God on the judgement day. One can clearly see that freedom and free-will are practised in these religions.
I think you should read Old Testament regarding on what you have state

.
Can you FORCE God by threatening life? What good then is that religion and what God is that God who first gives a person a brain to think and then choose to go against it's nature ! I ask God day and night, why did he gave me a brain to think? Things could have been easier if I were a machine. I would serve him till my battery lasted and he could choose to re-charge me or not. God answered my prayers. He said, He wants me with my will !
Ask your Elohiym on Old Testament. Read my friend, read.
Tomorrow, even if I give in and convert back to islam because I feel threatened, what kind of a muslim I will be then when I don't want Him with my will?
So i concerned please do not convert to Islam unless you know the reward from GOD and the consequences of betraying on Him.As I said before, if in here there is someone who want to convert Islam, please don't because of human, but please because of Truth or God. Because once you got into the Islamic baptist, that mean the Islamic Law will come all overall in you soul and body, including death penalty on the one should got it becuase of broking the God Rule.
For me anything that is forced it's equal to rape. Is God a rapist?
My God doesn't force you to get on Islam. My God give you a choice of what you have to choose, but if you already accept Islam because of Truth and God, then you go back to the previous one or out after you are being moslem, then you should take the consequences Islamic Law.And the one who executed the rule broke should from Islam Government.Wallahu a'lam.

 

[Ricky W]

A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(kriss)
Ricky circumcision is released now only circumcision of the heart is in effect physical circumcision is no longer required. All the statues and ordinances are fulfilled from physical to spiritual.
Who said that, you, human, or GOD. GOD never pull back what He had said before, and those LAW was EVERLASTING, not temporary, GOD COMMANDED THAT TO ABRAHAM AND HIS FOLLOWERS unless you want to DENY ELOHIYM ?See one more time on the bible. And Circumcision that GOD meant was on FLESH not on SPIRIT that is WHAT GOD COMMANDED for the everlasting to ABRAHAM DESCENT and HIS FOLLOWERS.
You should understand that we have a New testament in effect isn't that what Islam has done ?
You have and NT, but you dump some OT. Becarefull on what you did kriss, because GOD always keep HIS LAW. Because GOD wouldn't taking back what HE already given through His covenant.
You no longer follow the Law of God given your ancestors you instead follow Mohammad.
I follow him because GOD said so. It's the samething that Jews follow Moses because GOD command so.
You say Abraham was both our ancestor yet Abraham never broke the Ten Laws and Mohammad did.
Mohammad was not Jews, But the commandment that GOD has given has the same point. And what Muhammad did, was because GOD said so to him.
Yet Islam choose's to follow the Law breaker rather than the Law giver.
I don't think that was true.I think it is clearly that you are the one who follow the Law Breaker according to your BIBLE.
This is the basis of my conclusion if Allah is God why are not you told to follow the laws of God? Why does Mohammad say its ok to break Gods Law if man decides he has a reason. When God says thou shall not Kill ,thou shall not lie Mohammad says you can do these under certain circumstances.
Mohammad s.a.w. was a noble, honest person. Never event once he ever being lied to everyone, event to his enemy. He always keep his promise event to his enemy. And it is not ok to broke the GOD rule. Thou shall not kill but Elohiym still order his followers to kill children, to kill men and women. What do you think of that ? Event i don't believe of killing women and child in the bible was GOD order, moreover they were in captive. Does GOD forgot with what He had said, or perhaps Moses doesn't understand with what God has commanded ?
Jesus says you can not break Gods laws under any circumstances. So to us it seems Mohammad has set himself above God.
If God give permission on those circumstances are that meant Muhammad broke the Rule ?
Our God of the bible loves you wants your love in return thats allMohammand says to hate us and all other religions asks you to die for that hate.
Well tell that to the children and every one that has been killed in the Moses Time and his generation, that God Loves human? And Muhammad s.a.w. doesn't hate human not hate you or anyone, what he hate because of God was of what human did.Does evil should die ?If regarding on different religion this is what Quran said regarding on you and us and whoever don't have faith.Al Kafiroon (109).1 Say : O ye that reject Faith! 2 I worship not that which ye worship, 3 Nor will ye worship that which I worship. 4 And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, 5 Nor will ye worship that which I worship. 6 To you be your Way, and to me mine.[url="http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=109&translator=2&mac=]http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display...anslator=2&mac=[/url]
The God of the Bible says every human being is his child and to kill even one self is to kill his child. and grieves him. Islam says you should kill yourself and others to recieve virgins and wine how long would this make a person happy ??eternity? This is like going to a party it provides no permanant happienessOur god says follow my Laws and I will give you everlasting life and I will be your God and love you
Kriss, what's wrong with you ? I event not trying to insult you in any way of my discuss, how come you became like this, O God ! Please keep my patience on ahlil kitab ?Al Maidah(5):32 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.This is what we believed. Not like the way you described.Thoses rewards on heaven was if we were doing all the goods because of Allah Commanded, not of our passion, and those rewards was everlasting ON HEAVEN NOT IN THIS TEMPORARY WORLD. Event if the goods thing done by us because of human being there would useless in front of God eyes, because they need on human seeing rather then God eyes. So the point of muslim did must becuase of God(Allah) Elohiym God of Univsere.Wallahu a'lam.

 

[Christina]

You just do not understand the things in the old testament are FULFILLED in Christ NOT cancelledcircumcision of the heart by the spirit is what matters to God not a piece of skin.The O.T. is the New Testament concealed(secret or mystery) the New Testament is the Old testament Revealed(made known to be shown the true meaning )They are not different they teach like you would a child first the lesson is physicalthen as you grow you understand the meaning of lesson. Its like a young child you might slap his hand away from the fire so he does not get burnt. When he is older he grows to understand the fire is hot he does not need his hand slapped away. This is something like the OT compared to NT. We now understand we do not have to sacrifice a lamb for our sins it never was the lamb that forgave our sins it was always God we just needed to learn that. The lamb was just a tool to teach us obedience to God this is OT vs NT Now we have learned.We have grown up no longer need these childish lessons to worship God. The reason for the Old Testament was/is revealed to us in the New testament. Al Maidah(5):32 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the landYou quote this but Islam doesn't live by it. They kill their selfs they kill anyone they decide is infidels they kill innocent and guilty. What do you call it ?? Justified?? by whom??and if their are no infidels around you kill each other or haven't you seen what Shea and Sunni do to each other?? The more Ive tried to learn of your religion the more hate and killing I see. This is not of God. I do not understand this. I know you personally do not behave this way Ricky but your religion is in the news, papers, doing this everyday, people you leave your religion attest to it,people who are of your religion that are older say it has become this, people I read of that study it say this, your children's textbooks, confirm it, Yet you say it isnt so. even if half of it is untrue half is still true. The leaders of your religion announce to us convert or die. Yet you say not so and we dont lie well someone is lying either your book or your leaders. How do you explain this.

 

[Ricky W]

A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(kriss)
Al Maidah(5):32 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the landYou quote this but Islam doesn't live by it. They kill their selfs they kill anyone they decide is infidels they kill innocent and guilty.
That is Islam teach, if anyone doesn't agree with what was foretold in the Quran event that just one verse, you can doubt on they who was believe they were a moslem.I think you haven't read the whole Quran yet, so you can easily says such of thing.Moslem forbidden to kill anyone unless to God Rule breaker that GOD him self GAVE THE ORDER WHICH HE STATE ON HIS WORD OR THROUGH HIS MESSENGER.The reason they are can be killed :1st. The same thing as Torah has said in my previous state, that is Worship others god then GOD Himself. (God Rule Breaker).2nd. Becuase of killing human with purpose of him self or others human or creature(except for defense). (God Rule Breaker).3. For done an adultery which is those adulterer has been feel sex before(has been married) (God Rule Breaker).
What do you call it ?? Justified?? by whom?? and if their are no infidels around you kill each other or haven't you seen what Shea and Sunni do to each other??
That is wrong perception on Islamic teach.And what do you call those Irland who fought between catholic and protestant ? You cannot justified the 'religion' because of individual or group action.I personally felt pitty on thus shi'it and sunnies who got fought between each other. It is state clearly among Moslem forbidden to kill others.What happen right now, is they got been double cross each other, and they not realize it, they just following theire own passion rather what was GOD said.
The more Ive tried to learn of your religion the more hate and killing I see.
That is because you see not fairly, you are only consume the killing and killing and killing, without knowing the apologestic on it, without knowing the syarah(explaination) on the hadith, without using the Tafseer on the Quran provide by the scholars so you can get more picture of it.The same thing would be appear if you alway consume on murder, killing and killing and war and war that was foretold in the Old Testament.Use clear mind, find a reason on why. Then you judge by your self and compare to what has been told by God on OT.
This is not of God. I do not understand this.
That's depend on where you seeing something. You may not understand it, like the way i took a bible at the first time by seeing it's falsely and bloody murder and incest in the bible. But i don't take that as God commanded, i just need know, O that is what was foretold in the bible, but some of them i considered as a truth. I'm not generalize whole thing because of 1 thing. But after i read, then it's beeing proofing of What God and His prophet has said regarding on Bible. Thats why my prophet said, don't deny them but don't trust them also. That's mean we as a muslim must do cross check first, before saying or believing something.
I know you personally do not behave this way Ricky but your religion is in the news, papers, doing this everyday
So what is the problem with the news, news just want get more money from fantastic news, they can make lie on it, and it's been proven on your eyes also. News can make world became war, so how to overcome on this. Do a cross check with an object then you may considered what the news has said was true.
people you leave your religion attest to it, people who are of your religion that are older say it has become this,
And how about those christians who also done the same thing. And it's just one or two person, more than ten, hundred, event thousand. So what do you thing about that ?
people I read of that study it say this, your children's textbooks, confirm it, Yet you say it isnt so. even if half of it is untrue half is still true.
Then you must search first with what you call with untrue and true. People can wrote what they want, people can twisted what they want, but Quran there is an arabic that you still can learn if you want, or get more better view by seeing the tafseer Quran (try to see ibn Katsir Tafseer) he is the famous tafseerer among Islamic scholars in tafseer.
The leaders of your religion announce to us convert or die. Yet you say not so and we dont lie well someone is lying either your book or your leaders. How do you explain this.
Which leader that announce to you to convert or die ?It's your own mind that added such of thing. I read an article that you brought. And to be honest, you are too negative thinking on it. We Muslim want peace for real. But i remind you, if any human being(not just christian or jews) invading us, don't blame us for fighting it to human who make war on us at the first time.Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. ? No, he didn't announce such of thing to human kind. As I said before, you need to see syarah(explaination) on the Hadith, and tafseer on the Quran. If i can advise you, search syarah by Hasan Basriy with book called Fathul Barri' for explanation of hadith. Or Tafseer Ibn Katsir for tafseer Quran.Wallahu a'lam.

 

[Christina]

I'm sure there are many, many Muslims that want peace, the problem seems that no one will stand up to these that just want to kill, You support them by your silence and many cheer when another does a killing or bad thing. Many people do bad things but they do not do it in the name of God. Seems to me that if Islam doesnt like the reputation it is getting around the World it is the peaceful Muslims that must speak up against those that are doing these things but they will not Many times because they are afraid for their families afraid they will be killed if they speak up. What kind of religion is it that if you follow your Book and speak against wrong doers in your religion. They will kill the ones that speak up??You bring up Catholics and protestants true they were breaking God laws, but you didn't see every Christian in the world joining in and encouraging them We did all we could to bring it to and end. I do have compassion for peace loving muslims but as long as they are silent and allow Radicals to rule them and refuse to admit there is a problem and address it. There is nothing anyone can do for them. Islam's worst enemy is Radical Islam. Not outsiders.Just as in the Catholic, Protestant war their problems were within not without. Same with Islam.

 

[Ricky W]

A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(kriss)
I'm sure there are many, many Muslims that want peace, the problem seems that no one will stand up to these that just want to kill, You support them by your silence and many cheer when another does a killing or bad thing.
Our silence to them has been enough to proof that we are be patience on what happen to them. As for to know, the reason our muslims brother fight, was because they have been attacked and being invaded. Actually it's wrong if we are not helping them. Our brothers such as in afghanistan was being invade by Christian Soldiers(US Soldiers and it's allied) and some of munafiqun. Again you must see that proportionally if don't you wont having of picture why they do JIHAD REGARDING ON THE BATTLE AREA. It is wrong for you guys US Soldiers to invade others country which is not belong to them.Palestina, our brothers such HAMAS which US Gov, and perhaps some of the world saying that they are terrorist, they stand for their land, and kill who those stolen their land and kill their brother. But you see, you still cannot know the different between terrorist and defending self. Jews nation was never exist in no where. Even some of the Jews rabi agree with that. More than ten or hundred resulotion that UN gave to Isreal because of their attitude broking the rule, but still you, UN, event the keep silence on what they did. And when HAMAS and others resistence stand for their land, you guys call them terrorist, and by the time those Isreal the invader killing civilian and women and others child, you said amen. And by the time HAMAS succeed of kidnaping IDF soldiers, you and the world speak loudly but oncountrary on Palestinian you guys and the world like a dumb and doubt person not hear or seeing anything, what a pathetic.In Bosnia, in Iraq is the same.So who actually start terrifying people around here ? Us as an moslem, or christians invader in our own land ? Think about that Kriss.
Many people do bad things but they do not do it in the name of God.
Ofcourse bad thing don't do it by God name, it's a bad thing. Then why we act with God name, because it is what God has said and ORDER in many scriptures in the Quran nor in the Bible(OT).And that is not bad thing, it is your negative thinking who thinking like that way. We are being order by GOD to stand and defence for our land if you are being invade. So is that wrong kriss ?
Seems to me that if Islam doesnt like the reputation
This the wrong thinking of yours regarding on Islam, Islam doesn't need what the people said. The important is what GOD has told, NOT MEN.
It is getting around the World it is the peaceful Muslims that must speak up against those that are doing these things
We already to some of them, but we wont to some others, because they has right to do so(defense for their lives and home land).
but they will not Many times because they are afraid for their families afraid they will be killed if they speak up. What kind of religion is it that if you follow your Book and speak against wrong doers in your religion.
:naughty:, we already ! But i guess you know what the news wanted, they want money, they can do propaganda on what they want to pleasure the government and the hatred, so their news would be always seeing by audience then get more high on the rating. Now you speaking again about our religions because of some person and group, that was not objective at all. But that is your right, i just try my best to explain what i could.The orange one, that was wrong thought.
They will kill the ones that speak up??
That is not Islam teach, Islam teach very restricted on human live. But if you see the personal of the moslem, that wasn't Islam at all that only some persoanal. It is the same thing you say that, if there is christian who done murder or raping or adultery then you said, that is your religion. Is that way your logic think, my dear friend kriss ?
You bring up Catholics and protestants true they were breaking God laws, but you didn't see every Christian in the world joining in and encouraging them We did all we could to bring it to and end.
The same thing also in us.
I do have compassion for peace loving muslims but as long as they are silent and allow Radicals to rule them and refuse to admit there is a problem and address it.
We can silent as long as you christians soldiers do the same thing. You bring war we will facing you no mater what according to God rule. If you bring peace, we definitely would agree it, that is what was foretold in the Quran, it is clearly state in the Quran. So it is you should seeing your brothers who in the battle field. We are defend but you are attacking. If we keep silent that mean that bring us to death, then i shall say what a funny request.
There is nothing anyone can do for them. Islam's worst enemy is Radical Islam. Not outsiders.Just as in the Catholic, Protestant war their problems were within not without. Same with Islam.
We are already for our best trying to wrong way path, but for the right we will supporting them. Actually i wonder which one that you are calling them ?No, Islam worst enemy is not Islamic Radicalism, but Radicalism Kafiroon and Radicalism 'Christians and Jews(Zionist)' is the worst, it has been proof of that.Wallahu a'lam.

 

[Code_RED]

(kriss;20533)
I'm sure there are many, many Muslims that want peace, the problem seems that no one will stand up to these that just want to kill, You support them by your silence and many cheer when another does a killing or bad thing. Many people do bad things but they do not do it in the name of God. Seems to me that if Islam doesnt like the reputation it is getting around the World it is the peaceful Muslims that must speak up against those that are doing these things but they will not Many times because they are afraid for their families afraid they will be killed if they speak up. What kind of religion is it that if you follow your Book and speak against wrong doers in your religion. They will kill the ones that speak up??You bring up Catholics and protestants true they were breaking God laws, but you didn't see every Christian in the world joining in and encouraging them We did all we could to bring it to and end. I do have compassion for peace loving muslims but as long as they are silent and allow Radicals to rule them and refuse to admit there is a problem and address it. There is nothing anyone can do for them. Islam's worst enemy is Radical Islam. Not outsiders.Just as in the Catholic, Protestant war their problems were within not without. Same with Islam.
Dear Kriss,I see that you are trying your best but indeed throwing away pearls.However, I would like to point out one misconception. There is nothing like Radical Islam and then other types of it. Any religion for that matter is a religion first and is not to be classified by types. True, people choose to follow a religion to different extents and it's their personal matter. That should certainly not take away the focus from what a particular religion teaches for that is the core of it. I am to be dead, is not because a radical muslim decided it so... BUT it is the very religion that teaches and permits them to commit murder.God revealed himself to us through his choosen prophets. Read Quran and you will see that it talks more about Jesus of NT than it talks about Moses of OT. Did Jesus commit any murder? No, he was the Lamb for God so loved the world. Leave alone Jesus, no one was killed at the hands of Moses. Fact remains on the other hand that Muhammed was a mass murderer. No different than Adolf Hitler. Islam is about racial cleasing. A muslim faith is not complete without accepting Jesus. Yet if any muslim chooses to follow Jesus over muhammed, he / she ought to die. Funny?

 

[Christina]

You seem to be right CodeRedevery time I try to give this religion a chance I find more Hate, more denials,more liesNo responability for their actions just blame on everyone else. Sorry Ricky but I dont believe every media outlet lies I believe you are lying to yourself to justify all the actions of your faith. As I said before even if 50% are lies. Its still the most violet hatefilled religion I have ever experienced and all this is against the one God. I pray you will see reality of this. 'Hate literature easily found at UK mosques'By Toby Helm, Chief Political CorrespondentLast Updated: 2:07am GMT 31/10/2007Extremist literature that encourages hatred of gays, Christians and Jews can be easily found at many of Britain's mosques, according to a new survey.Read the survey on the Policy Exchange website The London Central Mosque's bookshop is not run by the mosque, as it is a franchise Researchers for the centre-Right think tank Policy Exchange claims it found the literature in a quarter of the 100 mosques and Islamic institutions they visited.Many of the publications allegedly called on British Muslims to segregate themselves from non-Muslims and for unbelievers to be treated as second-class citizens wherever possible.The literature also allegedly contained repeated calls for gays to be thrown from mountains and tall buildings and for women to be subjugated.Policy Exchange said that among the documents were the anti-Semitic forgery, The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, and other publications peddling bizarre conspiracy theories.Anthony Browne, the director of Policy Exchange, said: "It is clearly intolerable that hate literature is peddled at some British mosques."I am sure the majority of moderate Muslims will be as horrified as everyone else that pamphlets advocating jihad by force, hatred for insufficiently observant Muslims, Christians and Jews, and segregationhave found their way into the UK's mosques."advertisementPolicy Exchange visited more than 100 mosques and other Islamic institutions and said it found the literature was accessible both openly and "under the counter". Altogether some 80 books and pamphlets were collected over the course of a year.Many of the institutions were among the best funded and most active of Britain's 1,500 or so Islamic establishments. In several cases they had received official visits from politicians and even members of the royal family.Dr Yunes Teinaz, of the London Central Mosque, said: "Any book or literature like this found in the mosque will reflect the views of the author and not at all the view of the mosque." He added that the bookshop in the mosque was not run by the mosque, but was a franchise. Iqbal Sacranie, a former secretary general of the Muslim Council of Great Britain, criticised the report. He said: "The majority of Muslims will totally dismiss this because it is written by the Policy Exchange, who have an agenda to denigrate the mainstream of Islam in this country."If there is any material which falls foul of the law, then the law should take its course. We cannot accept messages of hate - there is zero tolerance on that. But it is irresponsible to target religious texts and take them out of context. These texts can be found not just in mosques but in ordinary bookshops - the report overlooks that."..................................................................................................................................................FEAR NO EVILPalestinian terrorists brutally murdered the head of the Gaza Strip Bible Society in early October. Rami Ayyad, 31, was the father of two children, with a third on the way. His mutilated body, which had been repeatedly stabbed and his skull crushed, was found in Gaza City, where he ran a Christian bookshop that had come under earlier attack from Muslim radicals. They vow to drive out or kill all Arab Christians who refuse to immediately convert to Islam. With violence of all kinds gripping the troubled Middle East and indeed the entire world, it is so good to proclaim that "The Lord reigns, He is clothed with majesty! The Lord has clothed and girded Himself with strength; indeed the world is firmly established, it will not be moved." (Psalm 93:1) More convert or Die talk yet still you say it doesnt exist yet it is quoted by Muslims in Iran, Gaza, Iraq, Pakistan and still you say its not. Yet the leaders pronounce it in papers, on tv, in videos time and time again.

 

[Christina]

The Hijacking of British IslamAn authoritative new report by Policy Exchange, the UK's leading centre-right thinktank, entitled The Hijacking of British Islam: How extremist literature is subverting Britain's mosques, reveals the worrying extent of extremist penetration of mosques and other key institutions of the British Muslim community. The report is the most comprehensive academic survey of its kind ever produced in the UK and is based on a year-long investigation by several teams of specialist researchers into the availability of extremist literature and covers more than a hundred mosques and Islamic centres throughout the UK. Among the reports findings are: * Most of the extremist literature is published and distributed by agencies linked to the Saudi Arabian government. * Some of the most high-profile and prestigious mosques in Britain are among the worst offenders; in many of them, it is openly available. * Separatist literature is distributed at the East London Mosque - which is closely associated with the Muslim Council of Britain (which purports to be the main body representing British Muslims). Shocking statements Pamphlets, books and leaflets obtained from mosques and Islamic centres contain an assortment of shocking statements including: * "Jihad against a tyrant, oppressors, people of bid'ah [Muslim innovators], or wrongdoers. This type of jihad is best done through force if possible." * "The Jews and the Christians are the enemies of the Muslim." * "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." Although some of the hate literature is in English, a proportion is written in Arabic. The translations commissioned by Policy Exchange have been independently verified. Many of the publications encourage British Muslims to segregate themselves from non-Muslims. So-called unbelievers are to be treated as second-class and avoided wherever possible. There are also repeated calls for gays to be thrown from mountains and tall buildings and for women to be subjugated. Among the literature available are extracts from the notorious anti-Semitic forgery, The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion (published by the Saudi Ministry of Education), and other publications peddling bizarre conspiracy theories alleging that birth control is a plot against Muslims and Arabs, and that pornography is spread as part of a Jewish plot to corrupt Muslims. The report has been authored by Dr Denis MacEoin, the Royal Literary Fund Fellow at Newcastle University who received his doctorate in Persian (Islamic) Studies from Cambridge University and has taught Arabic and Islamic Studies at Durham, Newcastle and Fez universities. Speaking about the findings of the report, Anthony Browne, Director of Policy Exchange said, "It is clearly intolerable that hate literature is peddled at some British mosques. I am sure the majority of moderate Muslims will be as horrified as everyone else that pamphlets advocating jihad by force, hatred for insufficiently observant Muslims, Christians and Jews, and segregation have found their way into the UK's mosques." Mr Browne went on to say, "The fact that the Saudi regime is producing extremist propaganda and targeting it at British Muslims must also be challenged by our own government. It is reassuring that the majority of mosques investigated do not propagate hate literature -but much work needs to be done to ensure that a large number of leading Islamic institutions remove this sectarianism from their midst." Recommendations The report makes several key recommendations: i) The Saudi Arabian government must be told to stop distributing extremist literature in Britain or else risk its good relations. King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia is currently on a state visit to the UK and the British government should address this matter directly with him. ii) Mosques and other Islamic institutions must act immediately to remove extremist literature from their premises. iii) The government, local authorities, police forces, other institutions and prominent individuals should have nothing to do with mosques that continue to sell or distribute extremist literature. iv) Islamic schools must be subject to clear and rigorous regulation and made part of a genuinely shared system of national education.

 

[Wise Haven]

Ricky - This does get boring after a while.I have a Koran - and also have access to three online translations. Therefore you cannot deny the parts of the Koran that specifically call for violent action against Pagans, Jews or Christians - not to mention all the other objectionable things.Your defence is always that of "you are not reading this in context".Maybe we are not reading this in context - but it seems your Imams are also reading out of context because they also preach these violent passages as a part of "everyday Islam" that is taught on a daily basis in thousands of mosques in the west every day.Religion of peace? - Nonsense: Islam has a long, violent, empire building history since it began. Prove otherwise and I will shave my head and grow a big mullah beard and wear my trousers at half mast:cool:

 

[Jordan]

I believe there is a slight chance in my humble opinion that these muslims can accept Christ as Saviour. However like Kriss said, Islam enemies are Christian and Jews...as the Qu'ran said not to take Christians and Jews as friends, and they think Christ is a liar. And they think the Torah (OT) is corrupted, but can't be proven...and it will never be proven.I, too also have access of three online translations, about 3 or 4 Hadiths...so I know pretty much going around in the world of hate. Love has gone so cold, and it's useless to keep saying truth to a person who continue to deny truth. It's like no humans has a soul in them. (according to what I see in Islam)Love much from JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour.

 

[Wise Haven]

(thesuperjag;21163)
I believe there is a slight chance in my humble opinion that these muslims can accept Christ as Saviour. However like Kriss said, Islam enemies are Christian and Jews...as the Qu'ran said not to take Christians and Jews as friends, and they think Christ is a liar. And they think the Torah (OT) is corrupted, but can't be proven...and it will never be proven.I, too also have access of three online translations, about 3 or 4 Hadiths...so I know pretty much going around in the world of hate. Love has gone so cold, and it's useless to keep saying truth to a person who continue to deny truth. It's like no humans has a soul in them. (according to what I see in Islam)Love much from JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour.
I think these people are beyond rational debate. They constantly twist reality to conform to their aberrant reality.Every other person of any religion or lack of religion in this world can co-exist with their fellow man. The only exception is Islam - now - in this present day they are spilling blood and oppressing non muslims and even people of their own faith but of a different sect.Yes, yes I know.......blah blah blah Christians were this.....in the past.....Christian did this in the past.......blah blah. The point is: This is the 21st century and these people are still behaving like middle ages feudal lords and peasants. Come on Islam! - it is time to grow up. We got wise to our despotic religious leaders who were only interested in power, money and sadistic pleasures. If you love your religion and believe it really is the religion of peace kick out your monstrous preachers and imams who are making slaves and cannon fodder of you and your children.Don't be fools, throw out the devils in you midst.Then we will welcome you back to the human race.

Enough said!

 

[Ricky W]

A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(Code_RED)
However, I would like to point out one misconception. There is nothing like Radical Islam and then other types of it. Any religion for that matter is a religion first and is not to be classified by types. True, people choose to follow a religion to different extents and it's their personal matter. That should certainly not take away the focus from what a particular religion teaches for that is the core of it.
That's depend on your understanding of Islam. Not because you are mistaken understanding Islam then you can said that what is in your mind is Islam.
I am to be dead, is not because a radical muslim decided it so... BUT it is the very religion that teaches and permits them to commit murder.
It is to bad you are not pay attention on the reason that i already gave to you regarding on God has revealed on OT. It is GOD Law from beginning that anyone who take other god after he/she know God before, shall die and got death punishment.
God revealed himself to us through his choosen prophets. Read Quran and you will see that it talks more about Jesus of NT than it talks about Moses of OT. Did Jesus commit any murder? No, he was the Lamb for God so loved the world. Leave alone Jesus, no one was killed at the hands of Moses. Fact remains on the other hand that Muhammed was a mass murderer. No different than Adolf Hitler. Islam is about racial cleasing.
You may read on what has foretold at OT, how many prophets getting war :?:And the facts also you didn't understand what situation at that time either. You need to read something carefully, trying to seek understanding rather then looking for falsely so you can get right viewing.It is well known your bible were though about racist and mass killing. Haven't you read what I already brought ? Or should i give you the verse which is precisely like what you has said above ?Muhammad s.a.w. was a prophet, and Hitler was only ordinary human being. Mohammad s.a.w. got God order, just like others prophets. You can see how David killing a lot of his enemy, but still he remain as prophet. Event the worse of that he still remain as prophet(although i doubt on what bible said regarding on David about his adultery and killing).
A muslim faith is not complete without accepting Jesus. Yet if any muslim chooses to follow Jesus over muhammed, he / she ought to die. Funny?
You are the funny one

. It is your missperception on Islam tough that makes you can tell like that. But that is your decission to do so.If Jesus still alive event others prophets still alive, those prophets must follow Muhammad s.a.w. that if you are understand Islam.Wallahu a'lam.

 

[Ricky W]

A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(Wise Haven)
I think these people are beyond rational debate. They constantly twist reality to conform to their aberrant reality.
Well that's your rights to say so

.
Every other person of any religion or lack of religion in this world can co-exist with their fellow man. The only exception is Islam - now - in this present day they are spilling blood and oppressing non muslims and even people of their own faith but of a different sect.
That is because you only hear news from CNN and others govs news television and media and perhaps from jews community. Well i guest you need to read more on a different side.
Yes, yes I know.......blah blah blah Christians were this.....in the past.....Christian did this in the past.......blah blah. The point is: This is the 21st century and these people are still behaving like middle ages feudal lords and peasants.
Well you want to the 21st century ?Who putting bomb at Japan with Nuke, who has a lot of nuke weapon on earth, who was start cold war with Soviet Union.And make lies on 9/11 event that can be proof that it is your own people who done that ?Who start Iraq war with false and lie news ?Who the one start war with Iran ?Who ... Well that's enough i guess to response you on this mater.
Come on Islam! - it is time to grow up.
You can tell that to your leader and army, who attacking others country for your own sake.
We got wise to our despotic religious leaders who were only interested in power, money and sadistic pleasures. If you love your religion and believe it really is the religion of peace kick out your monstrous preachers and imams who are making slaves and cannon fodder of you and your children.Don't be fools, throw out the devils in you midst.Then we will welcome you back to the human race.

Enough said!
Well guest what i'm not the one like you said, my hold is clear enough that is Quran and Sunnah none the less. And the one who fools is the one who think they understand God Law but they don't. The one who think they know Quran but actually they making lie on their self.You may think on what i said

.Wallahu a'lam.