Why is God So Mean?

[Prentis]

Here's what I think, since you ask.

I do think the Bible is truthfull. If there a mistake, it would be mistake of translation in some cases.

I think the controversy is there because the Bible is written in such a way that it is contradictory without the proper understanding. You can then take one side or the other. Thus the Arminian argues with the Calvinist, neither having the proper understanding that can reconcile the verses.

But when the Spirit interprets the word everything falls into place. It goes beyond human understanding. Which is why we cannot lean on our own understanding.

 

[7angels]

Fire 7
i am going to try and answer your questions to the best of my knowledge. if i am off please correct me. first there are only about 8% of christians that live a victorious life. these 8% are what you are looking for. it saddens me that there are to few. but on the other hand there are christians that are saved and live the worldly way. then there are christians that go to church but are not saved but think that since they are going to church that they are going to go to heaven(these people are going to hell).
rom 10:9 says if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. this is all that is required to be saved and if anyone says any different then they do not know what they are talking about.

you ask why God made it so hard to get in to heaven? All he asks for is a relationship with you. God wants all people to be saved and to go to heaven(1 tim 2:3-4). and yet even though God wills us all to go to heaven people will still end up in hell. God gave us a will to choose our own destinies. what kind of will would we have if every time we were going to something wrong God changed our minds? God will convict us and attempt to show us the right path but is is ultimately our choice.

you also ask why God is so tough on homosexuals? God is tough on sin period. God does not sin and he expects us to try our best to not sin. when we do God has given us grace. grace is not a license to sin but get forgiveness for mistakes we will make along the way. i don't know the background of what causes homosexual tendencies. right now all i want to do is explain to you about the way God sees sin. God will convict unbelievers(this goes for believers too) of their sin which caused them to repent and get saved. now just because you are saved now do all your sins go away? the answer is no. God works with us at the level we are at. where he starts working on us is up to him. but the word say we are changed a little at a time(2 cor 3:18). if God hit us all at one time with all our sin then it would overwhelm us. so God will work with us right where we are at and will start working on us. a homosexual is no different to God then a person who lies(jam 2:10).

why are christians no different from the rest of the world? it makes me sad to say that you are right. most christians as paul put it are babes in Christ(1 cor 3:1-4). it seems that over the past 50 years we have stopped making disciples and are just getting people saved. then they send them out on their own and they get eaten by wolves and return to their old way of life(act 20:29). if you don't mind my saying so i believe you are lost and trying to find your way. you hear what God is supposed to be like but everything you have seen seems to be contrary from what is taught. you hear all the bad things happening and wonder why God would do something like that. you wonder does God love me? well he sacrificed his son for you. how many others would do this especially for people they do not even like or know. the word say God made each one of us before the world began. so he knew when and where you were going to fit in even before the world was created. the bible say God never lies and that the word is harmonious and everything fits together perfectly. there are parts in the bible that if you do not understand what is meant it can look like a contradiction. also you can take scripture and bend it to say just about anything you want. this is one reason God gave us the Holy Spirit to help us discern what is meant. but everything in scripture if it is correct doctrine will support each other. by the mouth of 2-3 witnesses will the word be established. this shows up that no one scripture shall stand by itself. there are always others to support it.

i am here today to tell you that God loves you and wants relationship with you. and that God is being misrepresented by many christians.

 

[THE Gypsy]

Thanks, aspen for replying. It helps me to understand your perspective.

I couldn't quote your answers because you responded within a quote so I'll try it this way...

1. What is your overall opinion on the Bible?

I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. The Bible and the Church are dual authorities. God chose to communicate with humanity through humanity - the Bible is God's Word, written from man's point of view. The OT is a record of God's declaration of Himself and humanities' failed attempts to relate to Him. The NT is God's perfect response to His own declaration - Jesus. He sent His Son to model perfect love and He died and rose again for our salvation. The Bible is true, but not always literal. Many post-Enlightenment Christians get bogged done in word studies of the Bible and end up missing the bigger picture.

I must admit, I have also questioned taking everything "literal". That's a tough one.

2. You have referred to the flood as "the flood myth". Do you not believe the flood happened as it is outlined in the Bible?

I use the word 'myth' because I do not know if the Flood literally happened or to what degree it happened. The word myth is different from fable - it suggests truth rather than fiction. I do not believe discovering or proving or believing that it really happened is the point of the story. It is only a question modern people would ask. The point of the story is God's faithfulness to His creation and His omnipotence. In any case, I truly believe that if I am wrong, Jesus and I will have a good laugh about it someday. In the meantime, I will continue to highlight the important parts of the story.

I get what you're saying here. You weren't there and have know way of knowing for certain since you don't have first hand experience. I feel the same on many issues. As a matter of fact...I still wrestle with the "Adam and Eve" story. Where did their sons' wives come from? And I've also read a lot from geneticists, who are Believers, that say it is impossible for the human race to have evolved to this point from just 2 people. I dunno...I wasn't there.

I do have to add that ever since people started questioning whether the events of the Bible 'actually happened', they have gotten stuck on defending the details and validity of stories that really do not need defending - rather than the message of the stories. The only thing that is going to happen when you defend the reality of the Flood myth is turn off people who are scientifically minded and fail to communicate the important message of the story.

I also believe, at times, too much time is spent on minute details than the message. The problem is, when talking with unbelievers, they have a real issue with the same thing...Not knowing for sure, or it simply being impossible for it to have happened that way. And, again...while dealing with unbelievers, the statement "God said it. I believe it. That settles it." just doesn't cut it.

3. If not...What do you see as the purpose of it being included in the Bible.

Declaring the omnipotence of God and His faithfulness to humanity.

'Nough said.

4. You have said that a person needs Jesus to be saved. Based on that, at what point (Book? Or chapter? or Verse?) do you believe the Bible begins to outline the truth? Or do you not believe it does at all?

The Bible is completely truth, but not completely literal. For example, is it more important that Solomon really determined who was the real mother of an infant by ordering the baby to be cut in half? Or that Solomon was portrayed as a wise judge?

I understand. The "literalness" of the Bible is a tough one. One thing is for certain...The deeper you get in the pool, the more effort it takes to keep your head above water.

 

[Robbie]

The problem everyone is having is that they replace Jesus with a book...

So when it says, "Thy Word is a lamp unto thy Feet" instead of understanding that means, "Jesus who is the Word of God is our Light" they read it as, "A book is our light"

another example is that I was talking to a pastor's daughter and I was telling her that after reading the testimonies to Jesus for myself I had came to understand that the Word of God isn't a book... that the Word of God is Jesus... she of course became very upset and defensive as I was challenging her families religion that they make money off... so I asked her a question, "Where John says that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God do you think that means in the beginning the bible was spinning around in outer space?" to which she replied, "Yes"... I was beginning to see how truly false what I had been taught was.

Then things in the testimonies to God's Word Jesus started to really jump out at me... how on the mount of transfiguration the disciples were rebuked by the Father for putting Moses and Elijah on the same level as Jesus... and how when the Father rebuked the disciples He said, "This is my beloved Son hear Him" and how Moses and Elijah were gone... if God's Word was the bible that he wanted us to hear... God would have said, "Yes put Moses and Elijah and Jesus all into one book and then know me through reading it" But He didn't say that, He said, "This is my beloved Son hear Him" If we can't hear Him it's because He's not in us, and if He's not in us it's because we're not His. And the argument that, "How can you know whether it's really Jesus without a book... well if you don't know Jesus well enough to know whether it's Him or not without a book that's just proof that you don't know Him at all"

People need to replace believing God's Word is a book with God's Word is Jesus and then all of a sudden they'll actually understand what they're reading...

With the most important foundational understanding that God's Word in us isn't a memorized book... He is the Living Christ... Jesus

As Prentis understands... we don't need more bible scholars... we need more temples filled with Jesus... we are the temple of God... everyone's looking for some antichrist to fill some building in Israel... instead of realizing the abomination that causes desolation isn't worried about taking the place in a temple built with hands... He wants to take the place that belongs to God in the temple built without hands... who we are... so quit thinking memorizing scriptures is obtaining the Word of God... as Fire7 pointed out many have scriptures memorized who reject Jesus... having the Word of God in us... Is Christ in us... there is no other Living Word but Him. And When Christ is living in us... God's Word is living in us... and at that moment the Father is in the rightful place in His temple... who we are.

 

[Duckybill]

Satan LOVES it when people say we don't need the Bible or the Bible is erroneous. The Bible exposes him. I'll keep my Bible. It's the roadmap unto the Kingdom of God. We don't need the Bible? Yes we do Satan. We who are following Jesus need it. Those who don't need the Bible are lost.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

* around and around we go, around and around we goooooo weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee *

Get used to it. Ride the torpedo!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FHII]

6. 2 things are important here.

First of all, it takes faith. How do you know it's God? I ask you this; how did Moses know? How did Isaiah know? How did Jeremiah know? How did... Ok, Im sure you get my point!

The second thing is this. God confirms what he tells you through someone or something. That is my experience and I also believe it's a biblical principle (every word is confirmed by two or three witnesses). You have to look to God in faith and prayer.

I absolutely believe it takes faith. No question about it. The secon point is subject to speculation. Satan also has miracle powers. He moved on Job with God's permission. Some of the Pharoah's magicians also were able to do some miracles too. This is something you should keep in mind. Just because you see a sign doesn't mean it's following the Will of God and the Word of God (by this I mean the Bible). You have confirmed that the Bible contains the Words God said. So nothing is going to go against that.

7. Without the Bible I have faith in God.

Cool. I have no problem with that. How do you get that faith. I did not say "how did you get that faith", by the way. But let's include that in... How did you hear about faith in Jesus Christ? If you heard about it from a preacher or a witness, how did you back it up?

Here's what I want to ask you.

All those stories in the Bible, what good do they do if we don't learn to walk like the people in those stories? What good is all this head knowledge we can get if we don't walk in the love of Christ?

Nothing.

I don't have an arguement with that statement. I agree. Saying we have to believe and follow the Bible and apply it still doesn't say the Bible isn't the source. Later in responses to others, I will be saying that reading the Bible, believing the Bible and following it doesn't get you saved and the Bible says so. Look for that later. However, the Bible is the roadsign to salvation.

Those stories are there to point us to Christ and to his walk. God had already given us lots of scripture. Yet John, Peter, and all these men were looking to receive things directly from God.

We don't need words on a paper or knowledge in our heads. We need the life of Jesus Christ. We need to walk in the Spirit. And for that we need God to touch US, not Paul or Peter. Us. WE need to be born from above. We need to become like Christ, and ONLY Christ in us can do that.


I said, the Bible is the road sign.... Without it, how do you know you need the life of Jesus Christ, and to walk in the spirit. Paul and Peter were two of the guys telling you that. If they didn't tell you that, you wouldn't have known, would you?

 

[Prentis]

First off, FHII, I want to say thanks for that answer. These kind of back and forths are interesting!

Now, reading your answers there is really one question I see that you are asking me, and I see it in both these statements...

Cool. I have no problem with that. How do you get that faith. I did not say "how did you get that faith", by the way. But let's include that in... How did you hear about faith in Jesus Christ? If you heard about it from a preacher or a witness, how did you back it up?
I said, the Bible is the road sign.... Without it, how do you know you need the life of Jesus Christ, and to walk in the spirit. Paul and Peter were two of the guys telling you that. If they didn't tell you that, you wouldn't have known, would you?

I receive faith by hearing the word of God (faith comes by hearing). My parents are Christian, and so I heard alot about it when I was young. It became real though when we had a gathering and some men spoke what the Lord put in their heart, words of the Lord. And it had impact because the Spirit was behind it. You could just sense the Lord's love. The people were walking in it.

Later, when everything around me was falling apart, I lost faith. The Lord used some things a few years later to revive it in me, to bring me back. Since then I have met brothers like this and have had many things happen were the Lord confirmed things to me. Sometimes through his words, sometimes through a brother. The distinguishing touch is always love, the love of the Lord is in it.

I would say the Bible is A road sign. Also a very useful tool to instruct of the truth. What about this; a man LIKE Paul or Peter comes around today, and speaks the words the Lord is speaking to him TODAY, wouldn't that be as usefull as the words of Paul and Peter? It is Christ in Paul and Peter that teaches us, and the same is possible for any man today.

When Paul and Peter preached, it was powerfull. Was it because they were special? No. But they were instruments of God. Men are called to the same thing today. We are to spread the life of Christ.

In other words, the Bibles is one of the most usefull tools God can use because it is the words he spoke and if we grasp them by faith He can make them become real in our lives. But it remains a tool that teaches us to walk by his life. I 100% agree that it's the road sign! My point is this, seeing the road sign does not change you, but seeing the one it points to does.

 

[Duckybill]

There are MANY opinions about Bible doctrines, even by those who believe it is God's Word. But those who do not believe it to be God's Word are groping in total darkness. They can do whatever they please. After all, they have no standard to go by. They make their god in their own images.

1 Thessalonians 2:13 (ESV)
13 And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

 

[Prentis]

1 Thessalonians 2:13 (ESV)
13 And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.
Just sayin'

 

[Duckybill]

1 Thessalonians 2:13 (ESV)
13 And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.
Just sayin'

Almost sounds like you're saying Paul's letters aren't God's Word.

1 Corinthians 14:37-38
37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant.

 

[Prentis]

Ah, it could sound like that, but it's not what I'm saying.

So God used Paul and Peter (and many others) to speak the word of God. What they spoke, we have it in the Bible. These are, yes, the commandments of the Lord, as they are his word.

Only did God just stop using people like Paul and Peter to speak his word, to add more insight and revelation from the Lord? Or is God still actively revealing his heart and will?

The word is very usefull, but only when God uses it to reveal his heart and his truth. And he can ALSO do that through someone who, like Paul was, is no longer living his own life, but Christ lives through him.

 

[Duckybill]

Whatever contradicts God's written Word, the New Testament, is WRONG!

Only did God just stop using people like Paul and Peter to speak his word, to add more insight and revelation from the Lord? Or is God still actively revealing his heart and will?

Revelation 22:18-19 (ESV)
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

The word is very usefull, but only when God uses it to reveal his heart and his truth. And he can ALSO do that through someone who, like Paul was, is no longer living his own life, but Christ lives through him.

The written NT is His Will for His people.

 

[Prentis]

Whatever contradicts God's written Word, the New Testament, is WRONG!
I wholeheartedly agree! Only, if it were God speaking through an vessel, would not that word rather be CONFIRMED by the New Testament and be in harmony?

The matter here really is, is God still speaking to us today? Well I would say, how else are we supposed to walk by the Spirit.

The written NT is His Will for His people.
Agreed. But should we all go to a street called Straight (as the Lord instructed Ananias in the book of Acts)? No. How do we know where to go? How do we know what to speak? How do we know his will in the present moment?

It has to be by his Spirit. Thus we need the Lord here and now speaking to us and leading us.

How did the brothers know that it was Paul and Barnabas that were to be separated and sent out? The Lord spoke in the here and now. How do we know who to send? By the same pattern. The Lord is sending, and he will choose who he sends.

 

[Duckybill]

I wholeheartedly agree! Only, if it were God speaking through an vessel, would not that word rather be CONFIRMED by the New Testament and be in harmony?

Yes, but nobody I have known today has equal authority to write more of God's Word. Agree with it? Yes indeed. Add to it? NO!

The matter here really is, is God still speaking to us today? Well I would say, how else are we supposed to walk by the Spirit.

By living by His written Word. Not by adding to it.

Agreed. But should we all go to a street called Straight (as the Lord instructed Ananias in the book of Acts)? No. How do we know where to go? How do we know what to speak? How do we know his will in the present moment?

There are plenty of ways to know. God gave us the answers in the NT.

It has to be by his Spirit. Thus we need the Lord here and now speaking to us and leading us.

His Spirit will guide us by His Word.

How did the brothers know that it was Paul and Barnabas that were to be separated and sent out? The Lord spoke in the here and now. How do we know who to send? By the same pattern. The Lord is sending, and he will choose who he sends.

They didn't have the written Word that we do. It is our guide. Satan can guide by visions and revelations. That's why Satan attacks God's written Word. Stick with His written Word.

 

[Prentis]

Yes, but nobody I have known today has equal authority to write more of God's Word. Agree with it? Yes indeed. Add to it? NO!

By living by His written Word. Not by adding to it.

There are plenty of ways to know. God gave us the answers in the NT.

His Spirit will guide us by His Word.

They didn't have the written Word that we do. It is our guide. Satan can guide by visions and revelations. That's why Satan attacks God's written Word. Stick with His written Word.

His Spirit will guide us, yes!

We must follow the Word that is Jesus, and Jesus is not written, he is alive! John says that the Word was God, speaking of Jesus.

We must walk in his power and his life!

The Bible is a great tool, and the Lord uses it mightily. Don't get me wrong, I think it's good to study, and study lots if you can. But when you do that, who are you looking for to guide you? Ink and paper cannot guide you. You need someone, someone who is alive. The Spirit must guide us! We must be led of God.

We must be ready and open at anytime for God to tell us, 'Go there, and you will find this, do that'. We are to listen to his voice!

 

[Duckybill]

Stick to the written NT or you will be deceived.

 

[Prentis]

Jesus said 'Follow me'. He is the living word and it is in Him that I put my trust.

If we do not follow the Spirit, we will be deceived.

 

[Duckybill]

If we do not follow the Spirit, we will be deceived.

If you do not follow the written NT you will be deceived.

 

[Prentis]

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. (John 5:39)

The scriptures do not testify of themselves, but of Christ. They point to him.

It is Him we must follow.